GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on March 23rd, 2020 in the Gaming category.
PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X: What We Know So Far
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ZedMan1996
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Eggs-buggs Series Eggs
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The SSD speed is the most exciting on PS5 side for me. On Xbox it's Machine Learning & the dedicated hardware for it to improve AI, Animation or provide SuperResolutions. :
This has to be the one of the best comparison article yet on the internet. Well done
The only part missing is under BC, because MS uses ML to provide HDR to nonHDR games all the way back to the original Xbox. I think that's worth pointing out.
This has to be the one of the best comparison article yet on the internet. Well done
The only part missing is under BC, because MS uses ML to provide HDR to nonHDR games all the way back to the original Xbox. I think that's worth pointing out.
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- BadFlounder
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I think using the term “dwarf” is hyperbolic with a 12 vs 10.3 comparison. I mean, if there is any “dwarf” within these specs on paper, wouldn’t it be the dramatic difference in SSD speeds? I have no idea if that SSD difference will make a big difference in games at the end of the day. My guess is it won’t be a dramatic difference except for perhaps in 1st party games. Time will tell.
I was just reading an interesting article this weekend where a Dev was quoted saying that the PS5 is not far weaker than the Series X, despite some media reports. On paper the GPU in the X is about 17% stronger, but that doesn't really tell the full story. The PS5 is such a unique design that it makes the outdated raw tflop comparison a bit misleading. His take was that each machine has a couple advantages over the other, but at the end of the day they are actually incredibly similar in what they can output.
IMHO the biggest difference is in how the two machines have been marketed to this point. Microsoft have done a masterful job, frankly. Sony has been absolutely awful up to this point. lol
The battle, as always, will come down to price and games.
EDIT: Here is the article, for reference... https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7139...gnificantly-more-powerful-than-ps5/index.html
I was just reading an interesting article this weekend where a Dev was quoted saying that the PS5 is not far weaker than the Series X, despite some media reports. On paper the GPU in the X is about 17% stronger, but that doesn't really tell the full story. The PS5 is such a unique design that it makes the outdated raw tflop comparison a bit misleading. His take was that each machine has a couple advantages over the other, but at the end of the day they are actually incredibly similar in what they can output.
IMHO the biggest difference is in how the two machines have been marketed to this point. Microsoft have done a masterful job, frankly. Sony has been absolutely awful up to this point. lol
The battle, as always, will come down to price and games.
EDIT: Here is the article, for reference... https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7139...gnificantly-more-powerful-than-ps5/index.html
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- rmts_kingdom
So basically what they have is just a deal between the two to give us the same crap and get everyone’s money!! Its a win win for both of them!!
ZedMan1996
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Considering they're selling at a loss for every unit, its more like a "win" for "everybody".
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It really doesn't. Both consoles have advantages and disadvantages, although in raw performance the Xbox is stronger.
But even just looking at the GPU the Xbox GPU wont be better at everything, because some of the tasks benefit from high clockspeed more than CU count. This is one example these devs are alluding to imo.
The PS5 isn't more unique than the Xbox.
- Same CPU architecture
- Same GPU architecture
- dedicated hardware for audio & support for 3D audio, RT audio, ... on both consoles
- dedicated hardware for decompression on both consoles
- GDDR6 RAM
- SSD
Just for example and obviously there are differences in clockspeed, bandwidth, CU and so on for these parts. But the hardware is really similar in general.
The TF comparison isn't more outdated than before. Obviously people need to understand it's only one metric and it real performance can greatly differ between different architecture. However Xbox and PS5 have literally the same CPU & GPU architecture. This makes a comparison possible and valid.
What people do with these numbers or the discussion around the consoles is another issue, because i've seen everything. From people completely underrating them and overrating them.
For example the SSD is an hot topic today. Some are saying, it'll only improve load times and others are saying the SSD "can render...". So basically people underrating and overrating it. An SSD provides more than faster load times, but it doesn't render anything. It's an storage solutions for God sake.
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Looking the most forward to Xbox Series X and how it performs. I'm sure the PSSD5- I mean PS5, will do well too. But to be honest, fast loading times really isn't my cup of tea. Hopefully Sony has more than that on their table (not including games).
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I think maybe graphics wise may go to Xbox this time but with the speeds and data output of the PS may make up for that in faster rendering at a similar quality.
It'll be interesting to see what digital foundry actually does in comparison when ever it comes to it.
It'll be interesting to see what digital foundry actually does in comparison when ever it comes to it.
90% of games will look and play essentially identical on the two boxes for 90% of the people who play games. The quality of your tv set will have much more to do with image quality than the difference between these two silicon filled plastic boxes.
That being said, the few hardcore gamers who are really into visual fidelity will likely notice that some AAA crossplatform titles will look a bit better on Xbox. Those same gamers, if they play both boxes, will notice that games load slightly faster on PS5. Everyone else will not notice a difference... even when they watch a youtube video comparing the same games on each console, lol.
The notable differences will be in exclusive new content and for a small minority of gamers the backwards compatibility titles offered will make a difference too.
Now please show us what GT Next on PS5 looks like..... how much closer in game are we getting toward the GT Sport dealeship car models? And please PD, say you are finally going to give us AI worthy of a simulation; you have the CPU to do it now, no excuses. On the other side of the console, Forza 8 has had 3 development years and a Turn 10 focus to make it more of a simulation. Will it handle as nicely as GT Sport does? Will their huge Forza 7 content list be ready for the new polish the Series X is capable of?
That being said, the few hardcore gamers who are really into visual fidelity will likely notice that some AAA crossplatform titles will look a bit better on Xbox. Those same gamers, if they play both boxes, will notice that games load slightly faster on PS5. Everyone else will not notice a difference... even when they watch a youtube video comparing the same games on each console, lol.
The notable differences will be in exclusive new content and for a small minority of gamers the backwards compatibility titles offered will make a difference too.
Now please show us what GT Next on PS5 looks like..... how much closer in game are we getting toward the GT Sport dealeship car models? And please PD, say you are finally going to give us AI worthy of a simulation; you have the CPU to do it now, no excuses. On the other side of the console, Forza 8 has had 3 development years and a Turn 10 focus to make it more of a simulation. Will it handle as nicely as GT Sport does? Will their huge Forza 7 content list be ready for the new polish the Series X is capable of?
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Eh, Machine Learning is not applicable as much as you think it is. Animations are more art than anything and HDR is not just luminosity but an entirely different color range. ML efforts of HDR reconstruction have been good but it's not the same as actual HDR.
Most game devs and tech enthusiasts know this. TF is simple measure of a specific kind of computation. It will show for instance how good a SoC is good at doing ray tracing or outputing a certain resolution at certain FPS, however game dev is not just that.
Game dev, more importantly, is real time rendering and involves the streaming of data from CD/HDD/SSD to RAM. Since it takes a lot of time to read and fill memory from the CD/HDD, and GPUs CPUs have to calculate on a frame basis ( 16.6 ms for 60 fps, or 33.3 ms for 30fps), game devs load RAM that contains enough data for the future.
For instance if it takes 10 secs to get 1 GB of data to RAM, and we have 4GB RAM for the stream, then we make sure that 4GB RAM has the data for the next 10 secs. Now imagine we could get it only takes 1 second for 1GB of RAM. Now that 4GB of RAM is only needed for 1 sec:
10 sec , 4GB = 0.4 GB of data for each second of game
1 sec , 4GB = 4 GB of data for each second of game
We get more game per timeframe. This could be anything from more detailed models, higher textures, entirely different level design etc
TF and stream speed are different metrics but I think a lot of devs are more excited about PS5 because of its game design changes, rather than offering higher frames, resolution or more ray casts.
https://medium.com/@mattphillips/te...-of-comparing-videogame-consoles-4207d3216523
A great article by an industry veteran game developer.
This is wrong. SSD does not render but it streams the data that GPU/CPU uses to render your frame. Real time rendering, aka video gaming is a lot about transfer speeds.
There are also so many crucial differences:
- PS5 has GPU cache scrubbers
- PS5 has a custom I/O complex, with different chips inside
- XBX uses BCpack compression, PS5 uses Kraken compression
- PS5 uses Tempest Audio chip, XBX will be something different
- XBX has split RAM pool logically while PS5's is unified
- XBX has a locked frequency while PS5's is variable
There is no way to know how similar and different they are in detail till the entire breakdown of every chip is known but even going my mentioned chips they are two very different systems.
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Personally I'm more than happy with currentgen graphics, I'd take the same visuals with 60 fps and better antialiasing, but of course it's not meant to be, the progress marches on and we'll see crazy stuff that we can't even imagine right now. The vast majority of games are multiplatform and will look virtually identical on both new consoles, people are crazy thinking it will be a major difference like say PS2 and Xbox where the architectures were vastly different and so were the games like Splinter Cell and such, some games like Doom 3 and HL2 PS2 wouldn't even dream of running. This is not the case anymore.
Hell even the Switch got ports of Witcher 3 and Doom, despite being barely more poweful than Xbox 360 in graphics, but has a lot more RAM and modern tools and API support.
Plus, don't forget that the first few years we'll see a lot of crossgen games, it makes no sense whatsoever to abandon 150+ million current users, you'll see games like FIFA appear on PS4 up to 2030 at least.
Hell even the Switch got ports of Witcher 3 and Doom, despite being barely more poweful than Xbox 360 in graphics, but has a lot more RAM and modern tools and API support.
Plus, don't forget that the first few years we'll see a lot of crossgen games, it makes no sense whatsoever to abandon 150+ million current users, you'll see games like FIFA appear on PS4 up to 2030 at least.
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So in short guys.....
Xbox is better
PS5 is faster
I'm I right?
Xbox is better
PS5 is faster
I'm I right?
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A Sony PC.
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Will be interesting to see if there is any noticeable difference between titles shared by both platforms the new GTA6 will be a good barometer i think. The speculation at the moment is pointless as the two systems have too many technical nuances that us gamers really dont understand fully. I wish I had Rick's portal gun so I could visit the alternate dimension ruled by Sega Dreamcast 5 anyone? lol
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Tired Tyres
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Speaking as someone who can go for a walk while Destiny 2 "loads", I'd say load times are the most important thing a next gen console can do.
I will wait for a Digital foundry video with retail consoles and a lot of third party games that are on both systems for benchmarking.
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Have you seen Halo 5 HDR via Microsoft ML solutions yet? I doubt it, because only a few got a first look. Digital Foundry is impressed by the results and said it's different to fake HDR. Fusion Frenzy with HDR was also impressive according to DF.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs
So you are saying this is wrong and proof me right in the second sentence, since the SSD isn't rendering anything?? xD
Which is an advantage for Xbox, because OS and some tasks for games don't need much bandwith, while high bandwith is crucial for Ray Tracing and resolution.
You are right, though. There are differences in the design. What i meant to say is both consoles are on an basic level doing something really similar with different priorities when looking at it more closely. If that makes sense.
- Both are making sure audio & decompression doesn't task the CPU. -> dedicated hardware for these tasks
- Both are making sure there are no big bottlenecks
- Both use the same architecture for CPU & GPU
- both got an audio engine for 3d audio, Audio RT, ... .
In my opinion this shows both did listen to developer's. Obviously they got as you said different solutions for these demands. For example are using different audio engine. But the basic idea of building a console without (big) bottlenecks and improvements for graphics, audio, and so on is there.
The biggest difference is Sony focusing more on SSD, while MS more on raw power for Ray Tracing.
I certainly think this comment isn't true when looking at the hardware...
BadFlounder:
We had consoles way different than these two before. That said TF should be always taken with grain and salt. But not because the PS5 is such a unique design.
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In principle, a 6.8-inch penis is very much above average, but next to an 8-inch one...
Yes, hence:
The gag there being that the PS5 can stream literally an entire world into view in the time it takes you to turn and look at it, while the Xbox probably can't. It's not much of a joke, but I enjoyed writing it.
If that's what you're getting from the article, I'd like to suggest you go back and read it again. There is no parity between the consoles in any department except the technology underpinning the CPU (in different specifications) and GPU (in wildly different specifications), and the amount and type of RAM (but not the bit rate).
Yes, though I went with hyperthreading with the lower case "h" simply because it seems to be the most readily recognised term for the technology.
The piece is intended to be no more techy than absolutely necessary - for a highly techy subject - for ease of consumption. There will be objections to some of the terminology (I'm not an expert) and some people will still somehow read it and decide that I'm biased towards the Xbox (I have an original Xbox; it's in the loft and has been for eight years) or PS5 (that's far more likely; I'm not, though it is the most likely of the two I'll get, because I am the GT nerd) because of how many times I said one before the other, or the way round they are in the title/lead image/chart.
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2 consoles, so much alike and so far apart, i think we can be fairly sure that the absolute vast majority of games will differ very very little on either platform. The straight ports will run better on the XBX thanks to the 18% GPU advantage, but because of the many CU the difference will be slight lower than 18% and thanks to the split memory pool the lesser optimized games will not take advantage of the optimal memory, holding back the XBX even more. On the other hand, the SSD advantage in the PS5 will see little to no use from multiplatform games, leaving the PS5 with pretty much zero advantages when it comes to 3rd party games.
However, the SSD advantage is going to change things, its a very very clever trick and they way Sony made it, with a custom solution letting them pick the NANDs themselves, saves money and gives crazy performance. A game like GT-Sport is constantly streaming everything from a hard drive, the same goes for most modern games. The amount of data that can be transferred with the PS5 solution is a game changer, the question is, does it even make sense to have something so fast? The answer is Mark Cerny, as with every other little detail in the PS5 the SSD design has been picked and designed with one single vision, games. So i am pretty confident that the PS5 will have games that will blow our minds and the 18% disadvantage will be invisible as 1st party games plays to every strength of the PS5.
However, the SSD advantage is going to change things, its a very very clever trick and they way Sony made it, with a custom solution letting them pick the NANDs themselves, saves money and gives crazy performance. A game like GT-Sport is constantly streaming everything from a hard drive, the same goes for most modern games. The amount of data that can be transferred with the PS5 solution is a game changer, the question is, does it even make sense to have something so fast? The answer is Mark Cerny, as with every other little detail in the PS5 the SSD design has been picked and designed with one single vision, games. So i am pretty confident that the PS5 will have games that will blow our minds and the 18% disadvantage will be invisible as 1st party games plays to every strength of the PS5.
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I would be extremely surprised.
GT is one of the games that sells their consoles, and Sony will have a new console to sell. Maybe when Sony stops selling consoles GT will be on PC, but that looks a while off yet.
Gigantic & detailed yet seamlessly-explorable worlds with no loading gates, or large mission environments that go ahead and make necessary use of gates because the interruptions are short, or open world games allowing higher top speeds for vehicles because asset streaming is faster, are my cup of tea.
The bottleneck has been apparent for some years, and I'm not even one who tends to complain about modest loading-screen times in games like Project CARS 2 or Milestone's racers.
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There is not a lot to be optimized by RAM. Out of the 6GB slower RAM 2,5GB are for the OS. Smart developer aka every developer will use the rest 3,5GB for CPU, audio, ... tasks and sometimes for GPU tasks that don't need much bandwith.
Both the CPU & GPU got access to both RAM. It's not a typical split RAM design iirc.
CU: Depending on the task, it will provide a bigger difference and not a lower one. RT for example greatly benefits from more CU.
I am more hyped for next gen than last gen, because of Ray Tracing, insane CPU jump and the SSD's. Games will look great & hopefully play better
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