GTPNewsWire
Contributing Writer
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- GTPHQ
This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on April 5th, 2021 in the Automotive News category.
Toyota Reveals 86 Successor: GR 86
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 137 comments
- 23,236 views
- 684
- Croatia
- NekoPuffer_PPP
Maaaan, I'm loving all these upcoming new cars. Can't wait to drive them all in GT7 lol.
Maybe I'm missing something here but it looks almost identical to the current 86 save for a few minor cosmetic changes and 30 odd hp more.
If GT7 ever sees the light of day hehe.
If GT7 ever sees the light of day hehe.
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- 725
- Southfield, Detroit
- BroncoFLHX
It’s a little too stale when put next to the predecessor. It looks like Toyota and Honda (look at new civic) have gone away from the wacky designs of the 2010’s and have gone for more approachable designs; the marketing teams must’ve talked them down. Not a bad design overall, there’s lots of carryover from the old boy so it was never going to be off-putting - but wish they gave it some more personality.
- 4,089
- Utah
I like it! It's not as aggressive looking as the older version, however it does look more refined, mature and it now has a more adequate engine. These cars have always handled like a dream, they are a blast to drive and even super forgiving. But man, they are slow on a straight line. My former roomate had a BR-Z and I remember my crappy Impala was considerably quicker on a straight.
- 50,779
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Sure, an RSX Type-S and a fox body Mustang can do 0-60 in 6 seconds, but again, this car ain't about that. It's about the driving experience. Drifting, ease of use around a circuit, how the car takes to customising.
If someone here, is buying it to drive A to B, grocery shopping, needs to parallel park and paying a car note that leaves them enough to pay rent, 6 seconds to 60mph, is fast enough.
If someone here, is buying it to drive A to B, grocery shopping, needs to parallel park and paying a car note that leaves them enough to pay rent, 6 seconds to 60mph, is fast enough.
- 2,023
- Australia
Front end looks pretty great, better than the BRZ. The rear end though looks like it has too much of the Subaru design language for me to see it as a Toyota, wish they did a bit more to change it up from the BRZ.
- 477
- United Kingdom
Weird choice of engine, large displacement/NA is going to attract higher taxes. When you consider the yaris GR engine has this licked for both power and torque they could easily have made a 1800 or 2 litre turbo which would be better on fuel, emissions and be quicker.
Still, not a bad looking thing, head on it reminds me of the jag F type.
Still, not a bad looking thing, head on it reminds me of the jag F type.
- 262
- Adelaide
- LilBigHulk
That butt is pure FTO... and I’m not complaining.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,406
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
40lbs lighter, 50% increase in torsional rigidity, 20% more torque and a lower CoG on top of 30bhp more is quite a bit of a change to be fair.
Better PTW and TTW ratios address one of the key needs of the original car, better rigidity and a lower CoG potentially improve the handling of an already great handling car.
All plus points to me, and significant changes, as is the much updated (and needed) interior changes.
- 684
- Croatia
- NekoPuffer_PPP
- 10,809
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
A last-gen Swift Sport makes do with 136ps and 118lb ft of torque but with so little weight and an ability to keep momentum in a way no other car I've driven can, bald power isn't the be all and end all for fun, or this car's.
A lack of personality might well be its undoing, though.
A lack of personality might well be its undoing, though.
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- 2,794
I think you misunderstood my comment. The original car had 200hp. My point was, it doesn't need 400hp, but it needs a hell of a lot more than 200.
250-300hp is pretty modest these days and would make this car a hell of a lot more exciting to drive, without being overpowered.
My comment regarding the chassis was contextual (another concept you seem to have missed), and is qualified by the previous statement that it is underpowered. In other words, to break it down for you, I don't care how good the chassis is WHEN it is so underpowered.
- 11,791
- Marin County
I'm just curious...what cars have you driven? I've driven plenty - from sub-100hp cars to 550hp+ cars. I've driven cars with a lot less than 200hp that were plenty quick enough for the street. I've also driven 300hp and even 500hp cars that felt underwhelming. For me it's less about the headline power figures and more about the character of the engine and how it works with the car.
A few last bench comparisons:
A 1990 Mustang GT 5.0 was around 3,000lb (average) and had 225hp and 300lbs-ft torque. I owned one. They feel strong, even stock. Assuming that torque and that weight and the factory 3.08 final drive and T5 ratios I'm getting:
1st gear: 1.03tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.613tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.41tq/lb
370z. 335hp from a big V6. But a decent amount more weight too
1st gear: 1.17tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.71tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.50tq/lb
Finally, lets look at the E46 M3, a car that used to be compared to contemporary Ferraris
1st gear: 1.14tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.69tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.50tq/lb
and from the other thread, here is the BRZ
1st gear: 1.02tq/lb
2nd gear: 0.61tq/lb
3rd gear: 0.43tq/lb
So the new BRZ should feel almost the same in terms of grunt as a 5 liter fox body mustang and not really far off of a 370z or E46 M3 - both of which have well over 300hp. Now, again, this is less related to measurable performance figures and more related to how the thing actually feels to drive - the 370Z and E46 M3 would walk away hard every time the BRZ shifted I suspect. But in a street car, does that really matter? While the example cars wouldn't be breaking any records if they were on sale in 2021, anyone who has driven a 5 liter manual transmission foxbody or 370z knows they aren't what you'd call slow. So combine that relative "shove" factor with an incredibly balanced chassis, and the new car should be a riot. Give me a foxbody Mustang with a perfect chassis any day.
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- 3,713
- Elizabeth, New Jersey, USA
To me, the 86/BRZ not being unnecessarily powerful and quick is it's main selling point. There is a growing dearth of sports cars that are quite simple overall and in the 200-300hp range on the market, and the 86/BRZ sticking to this formula is refreshing. The same could be said for the new Supra as well, with its fastest trim having 340hp. Especially in the era of almost every electric sports car doing 0-60 in the 3 second range or less, the traditional "compact" performance cars like the M3 and C-Class AMG now exceeding 500hp, and supercars exceeding 800hp becoming the norm. To say it bluntly, yes, many modern performance cars are overpowered. Some of this is because on the marketing side, there is the need to make each generation of a car more powerful than the last, to keep up consumer excitement, and high horsepower numbers is also a way to compensate for many new cars today having increasingly aggressive and complicated exterior styling. Maybe it's just me, but it seems we are re-entering an era where off-the-line acceleration and horsepower figures themselves is the foremost priority when it comes to performance cars, rather than cornering abilities and the overall "fun" the car provides. Plus, the 86/BRZ having a lower-than-average horsepower figure only keeps the price down. That and the Miata are the only affordable RWD drivers cars left on the market.
The new 86 doing 0-60 in six seconds is not "slow" at all. It may appear slow given the quickly growing number of cars which can do 0-60 in the three-second range, such as the new Kia EV, but it's exactly what is expected of a modern sporty car with 227hp that is relatively lightweight. It was only 30 years ago where six seconds was considered "fast"; Skyline GT-Rs, NSXs, M3s, many Porsches, and top-of-the-line Mustang/Camaro trims only surpassed this number slightly.
The new 86 doing 0-60 in six seconds is not "slow" at all. It may appear slow given the quickly growing number of cars which can do 0-60 in the three-second range, such as the new Kia EV, but it's exactly what is expected of a modern sporty car with 227hp that is relatively lightweight. It was only 30 years ago where six seconds was considered "fast"; Skyline GT-Rs, NSXs, M3s, many Porsches, and top-of-the-line Mustang/Camaro trims only surpassed this number slightly.
