Porsche Reveals New 503hp, 992-Generation 911 GT3

[CarreraGT]

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Anyone have a spare $207k I can borrow?​

Lol. More than double that in Aus. FML

 

[SPhilli911]

Edit* Odd little detail I found interesting & maybe @SPhilli911 can fill me in. But, I was always under the impression that any Porsche fitted with the PCCBs were designated with yellow calipers, and this was something Porsche would absolutely refuse to change even under PTS. On the new GT3 though, it looks like Porsche is allowing owners to option PCCBs with yellow or black-colored calipers.

Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps some customers wanted the better brake option but didn't want the "flashy" yellow color for one reason or another, maybe some think the yellow clashes with certain exterior paint colors. Even the description hints towards that, I think:

Brake calipers painted in Black (high-gloss) blend harmoniously into the overall appearance of the vehicle in combination with many exterior colours.

 

[kikie]

There are two options.

1. PCCB with Yellow calipers.
2. PCCB with black calipers.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I find it crazy that in just less than a decade, a GT3 can keep up with the almighty 918 Spyder around the Nurburgring. Can you imagine what kind of performance the GT3 RS or GT2 RS will have?

You gotta wonder also how long they can keep the high revving NA flat 6 in the face of ever tightening regulations. Will the next GT3 go hybrid? Or will they just stop making them and call it something else?

 

[kikie]

Next year the 992 is going to be as fast as the current 992 Turbo S.
At least according to a few articles I read last night. The 992 is going to have a hybrid version with a current flat-six combined with an electric motor of 140 hp and a lot of torque giving a hybrid 992 S almost 600 hp and almost 700Nm (516.3 ft-lb) of torque.

 

[05XR8]

I'll have the Kermit Green. The body looks clean. Basic. Just how I like the 911 look.

 

[kikie]

The 'ring lap.

 

[jjaisli]

I'm guessing as production continues, more options will show up on the configurator. There seem to be some rather obvious ones missing--case in point the steering wheel has a stitched in vertical stripe at the center, but there's no option to color it like there is in the GT4. I don't need to point out the absurdity of the concept but why have the vertical stitch at all if they weren't planning on offering color options. It looks a bit odd sitting there in the same color.

 

[kikie]

 

[GTboyz]

991.2 GT2 RS still looks amazing.

 

[Stoop Solo]

And look at that, car manufacturers - they didn't give it a gigantic stupid ugly grille!

 

[kikie]

It isn't possible to give a 911 a big stupid ugly grille.

 

[Stoop Solo]

It isn't possible to give a 911 a big stupid ugly grille.

Oh god I hate myself.

 

[kikie]

Oh god I hate myself.

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That's pure fantasy. No bumper, part of the hood is gone.

 

[Stoop Solo]

That's pure fantasy. No bumper, part of the hood is gone.

What a bizarre argument. Of course it's fantasy; I made it in Krita. It's the front of the Toyota Avalon for crying out loud. I even exaggerated it for comic effect, because this was a snarky bit of fun about a car I'm quite fond of and a design trend I detest. I wasn't about to hack Porsche's corporate servers, download the CAD files and re-engineer the whole thing.

Are you telling me it would have been physically impossible for Porsche to have aesthetically restructured the front of the car to incorporate a gigantic yet unnecessary grille of some description if they had wanted to follow that trend?

 

[kikie]

What a bizarre argument. Of course it's fantasy; I made it in Krita. It's the front of the Toyota Avalon for crying out loud. I even exaggerated it for comic effect, because this was a snarky bit of fun about a car I'm quite fond of and a design trend I detest. I wasn't about to hack Porsche's corporate servers, download the CAD files and re-engineer the whole thing.

Are you telling me it would have been physically impossible for Porsche to have aesthetically restructured the front of the car to incorporate a gigantic yet unnecessary grille of some description if they had wanted to follow that trend?

You made my point. Because it is fantasy it is not possible or let say Porsche won't do it and that was why I said:

It isn't possible to give a 911 a big stupid ugly grille.

My argument wasn't bizarre at all.
Everything is possible, you could even put the huge BMW kidneys on a 911 but it is not realistic.

If you were kind of joking, it's okay. I thought you were trying to prove a point with the Toyota Avalon grille. At least we agree on one thing though.
This:

... a car I'm quite fond of and a design trend I detest.

 

[Stoop Solo]

You made my point. Because it is fantasy it is not possible or let say Porsche won't do it and that was why I said:
My argument wasn't bizarre at all.
Everything is possible, you could even put the huge BMW kidneys on a 911 but it is not realistic.

If you were kind of joking, it's okay. I thought you were trying to prove a point with the Toyota Avalon grille. At least we agree on one thing though.
This:

It would seem our perceived disagreement is purely semantical. The physical possibility is indeed rendered moot by the fact that unless everyone at Porsche AG simultaneously suffered a complete nervous breakdown, there is more chance of one of these somehow materializing from the configuration page onto my driveway than of such a heinous design travesty coming to pass.

 

[SPhilli911]

The new GT3 spotted in Gulf Blue and Python Green:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...colors-gulf-blue-vs-python-green-157443.html#

Looks great! But, honestly, the wing looks odd to me the more I look at it, especially from the rear angles. I'm sure it's a function over form thing, which is important, but it still looks funky.

 

[Keef]

The new GT3 spotted in Gulf Blue and Python Green:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...colors-gulf-blue-vs-python-green-157443.html#

Looks great! But, honestly, the wing looks odd to me the more I look at it, especially from the rear angles. I'm sure it's a function over form thing, which is important, but it still looks funky.

Yeah, I think the gooseneck mount makes the wing look like its mounted too far forward. Reminds me of an old Pontiac Sunfire lol.

Overall, one of my least favorite parts of the 992 design is how far forward the tail lights and rear features of the car are. It's rather ugly honestly. Unlike the 993 or 996 4S where the light bar was on the rear edge of the car, this new light bar is on top of the car and looks goofy as hell. Makes it looks like it has a fat droopy ass hanging off the bottom. I really hope they change that design next time. A 911's tail lights should be low on the rear, not high.

The lights are literally on top the car, and that combined with the wing being mounted and hanging so far forward just looks goofy as hell in my opinion.

Also, another problem I've noticed with this car in light colors...there's a lot of body. This thing almost needs the GT3 side stripes both along the doors but also in front of the front wheels.

This color and bright sunlight is not doing the car any favors obviously. There are basically no reflections or surface texturing visible. But sunny days exist, and the color and surface shaping should take that into account. In this photo, there is a lot of meat on the sides of this car just sitting there with nothing to break it up. It basically requires side stripe graphics to make the car look like less of a fat hog. Also the ratio of window to car is getting out of hand. It's this big thick car with these teeny tiny windows. The 996 and 997 had a great body to window thickness ratio...

But the 991's windows got notably thinner, and now the 992 it seems like you can barely see out of the car. They're stretched too long and too thin vertically. I realize a longer car is more stable and efficient but at what cost? The cost of the 911 not even being a rear-engined car anymore? The cost of it looking more like a Cayman than a 911? They're ruining the car's style slowly but surely, in the pursuit of exclusive supercar performance.

I'm not sure I like the direction Porsche is taking the car. Frankly, I think the 911 should be their bread and butter, the common man's Porsche, the traditional Porsche, the classic Porsche, and they should chase supercar superiority with a proper mid-engined car like...the Cayman. The roles of these two vehicles are in the wrong place, and now the 911 is evolving into mid-engined obscurity.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. What do you guys think about the direction the 911 is taking? Is it drifting away from its origins as a relatively accessible but unique and fun sports car? Is it already too far gone? How many more generations until its genuinely just a mid-engined supercar with goofy Porsche-like styling?

 

[McLaren]

Speaking of the wing, it will be interesting when these get into the hands of shops. There was a small discussion thread on Rennlist about deleting the wing altogether & the original thought was that it'd be a much easier process than the 991 RS' (which needed side pieces to flush the body work) since it looked like you could just pop the supports off & wa-lah. However, someone posted a diagram of the rear & noted that the wing mounts may be grounded further down, attached to the chassis.

 

[Keef]

Speaking of the wing, it will be interesting when these get into the hands of shops. There was a small discussion thread on Rennlist about deleting the wing altogether & the original thought was that it'd be a much easier process than the 991 RS' (which needed side pieces to flush the body work) since it looked like you could just pop the supports off & wa-lah. However, someone posted a diagram of the rear & noted that the wing mounts may be grounded further down, attached to the chassis.

Do you have that diagram handy? My immediate thought is that it would be attached to the extend C-pillar because the width of the wing mount isn't nearly wide enough to go around the engine and to a frame rail. But the C-pillar structure is still one of the strongest parts of the unibody, probably stronger vertically than the relatively horizontal portion the 991 wing was attached to.

 

[McLaren]

Do you have that diagram handy? My immediate thought is that it would be attached to the extend C-pillar because the width of the wing mount isn't nearly wide enough to go around the engine and to a frame rail. But the C-pillar structure is still one of the strongest parts of the unibody, probably stronger vertically than the relatively horizontal portion the 991 wing was attached to.

Had to dig through a couple threads about it. I was sort of incorrect; it wasn't primarily the chassis they were concerned with, it was the concern that the back deck lid doesn't look as easily removable to get in there & remove the supports. The "chassis" talk I got was another member quoting the brochure that says the wing's supports are defined as "integral to the vehicle bodyshell". Here is the cut-away though, sorry it's not bigger.

 

[Keef]

@McLaren I'd think the wing would be easier to remove than they're leading on. It's probably mounted to either side of the C-pillar next to the engine cover, likely to the actual hood hinge bolts. In fact, they could've simply replaced the hinge base bracket with the wing mount itself...which could lead to problems with reattaching the hood hinge since it would be missing its base bracket. The wing mounts could be sandwiched elsewhere in that area but these bolt holes already exist and are in a very strong section of the lower C-pillar. I also see two other holes in that hinge base bracket but there is a gap to the frame behind them. Perhaps they designed this ahead of time and install studs in the opposite direction and attach the wing mounts to those.

The problem with that diagram is that it doesn't pretend to know how the wing is mounted. As far as I can tell, Google doesn't yet have an image of the GT3's engine cover opening.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

@Keef

This color and bright sunlight is not doing the car any favors obviously. There are basically no reflections or surface texturing visible. But sunny days exist, and the color and surface shaping should take that into account. In this photo, there is a lot of meat on the sides of this car just sitting there with nothing to break it up. It basically requires side stripe graphics to make the car look like less of a fat hog. Also the ratio of window to car is getting out of hand. It's this big thick car with these teeny tiny windows. The 996 and 997 had a great body to window thickness ratio...

But the 991's windows got notably thinner, and now the 992 it seems like you can barely see out of the car. They're stretched too long and too thin vertically. I realize a longer car is more stable and efficient but at what cost? The cost of the 911 not even being a rear-engined car anymore? The cost of it looking more like a Cayman than a 911? They're ruining the car's style slowly but surely, in the pursuit of exclusive supercar performance.

I'm not sure I like the direction Porsche is taking the car. Frankly, I think the 911 should be their bread and butter, the common man's Porsche, the traditional Porsche, the classic Porsche, and they should chase supercar superiority with a proper mid-engined car like...the Cayman. The roles of these two vehicles are in the wrong place, and now the 911 is evolving into mid-engined obscurity.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. What do you guys think about the direction the 911 is taking? Is it drifting away from its origins as a relatively accessible but unique and fun sports car? Is it already too far gone? How many more generations until its genuinely just a mid-engined supercar with goofy Porsche-like styling?

Found this when searching last week for the hood shutline design problem, related to pedestrian safety.

A minimum of 20 mm (0.8 inch) of clearance is required between the underside of the hood and the highest part of the engine or any other hard point such as the windshield-wiper motor or the HVAC plenum. This raises not only the front of the hood but also its trailing edge by at least 0.8 inch.
With the rear edge of the hood elevated, the entire cowl must be raised a like amount—or a bit more if the designers want a wedge-shaped profile. This moves the windshield base and the dash higher as well.
A taller cowl and dash force the front seats to be raised for visibility.
With people sitting higher in the car, the roof goes up to maintain headroom.
Now that the roof is higher, the beltline (the base of the side windows) has to be lifted to keep the car from looking bubbleheaded.
The higher beltline adds sheetmetal above the rear-wheel openings, reducing the wheel-to-body ratio.

I don't know how much of this applies to the 911, but I'm certain they are tucking the wiper motors and such under the cowl and I don't believe they are using those active hood-pops.

 

[Stoop Solo]

Engineering Explained delved into the details of the new 911's engine. It's quite something. What an absolute beast of a machine.

 

[kikie]

@Keef The overall size of the 911 is getting out of hand. These cars are getting bigger and bigger. The rear end does look strange. You are correct and described it correctly, the rear lights are on top of the car or as I see it on top of the rear bumper which is sticking out too far (the rear bumper). The rear end of the standard 992 is not that bad but the previous 911 where the rear end is one smooth surface is much better.

Is it my imagination but the front end overhang is also too big compared to the older 911 models. About the windows; I don't see it, they look fine to me.

The hood is also starting to get even with the front light bulges (I don't know how to explain it correctly).

It is still a beautiful car though and the 911 is still my favorite car, ..... so far.

 

[jjaisli]

I've been mildly disappointed with the styling of every 911 generation since the 996. At least upon initial viewing. But as time goes by, I begin to appreciate them more and more and the lines I originally saw as unappealing begin to grow more attractive over the life of the model run. (I'm sorry if this is beginning to sound like an analogy of sitting at a bar, drinking heavily and becoming more enamored with every girl who walks through the door). But it's the truth as a I see it. I remember when the 991 was first introduced I thought it was the end of the 911 as we knew it, it was too big, too wide, too heavy. It had become more of a (Edit: "cruising/heavier") GT car and less of a sports car. But gradually, as the years go by, I begin to appreciate the evolution of the styling more and more. And GT cars in particular seem to bring out the best of the generation and highlight the lines in all the right places. While I initially didn't appreciate the 991, I actually think the 991.2 GT3 RS is one of the best looking Porsche GT cars ever made. That's not something I would have thought I would ever hear myself say, thinking back to the 991's introduction. And while I didn't particularly like the 992 when it was first introduced a few years ago, particularly from the rear, it's design, like that of it's predecessors, has grown on me since. And while I still think the 991.2 is a better looking car (comparing base model or S models), I actually really like the styling of the 992 GT3. Granted it looks better from some angles than from others. And the jury is still out on the interior. I have yet to sit in a 992 so I'll have to reserve judgement. Through I do appreciate Porsche's attempt to harken back to the past while still keeping it fresh and modern--not an easy task.

 

[Keef]

Also I finally got around to building one. 143,000 pounds. And they do have the decals, I'm surprised y'all didn't choose them.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I've been mildly disappointed with the styling of every 911 generation since the 996. At least upon initial viewing. But as time goes by, I begin to appreciate them more and more and the lines I originally saw as unappealing begin to grow more attractive over the life of the model run. (I'm sorry if this is beginning to sound like an analogy of sitting at a bar, drinking heavily and becoming more enamored with every girl who walks through the door). But it's the truth as a I see it. I remember when the 991 was first introduced I thought it was the end of the 911 as we knew it, it was too big, too wide, too heavy. It had become more of a (Edit: "cruising/heavier") GT car and less of a sports car. But gradually, as the years go by, I begin to appreciate the evolution of the styling more and more. And GT cars in particular seem to bring out the best of the generation and highlight the lines in all the right places. While I initially didn't appreciate the 991, I actually think the 991.2 GT3 RS is one of the best looking Porsche GT cars ever made. That's not something I would have thought I would ever hear myself say, thinking back to the 991's introduction. And while I didn't particularly like the 992 when it was first introduced a few years ago, particularly from the rear, it's design, like that of it's predecessors, has grown on me since. And while I still think the 991.2 is a better looking car (comparing base model or S models), I actually really like the styling of the 992 GT3. Granted it looks better from some angles than from others. And the jury is still out on the interior. I have yet to sit in a 992 so I'll have to reserve judgement. Through I do appreciate Porsche's attempt to harken back to the past while still keeping it fresh and modern--not an easy task.

I don't think the 992 photographs well. I've seen one particular black 992 Targa around my area a few times and it looks hottt in person, especially at night with that razor thin light bar across the back. I think I prefer the 992 interior over the 991 having never sat in either. I still think the 991/992 have slightly odd proportions and there are some angles where they just look frumpy but at the same time they are both undeniably sexy. 996/997 = pretty. 991/992 = sexy. (I think the 987 vs 981/718 is a similar story)

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I heard on a podcast that the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 R tires on the new car are around 0.5 sec/km faster than the ones on the old 991.2 GT3 RS. The Nordschleife is around 20 km so that equates roughly 10 second quicker than if they're on the same tires. On the GTP article it just beats the old GT3 RS by 1.2 seconds, so it doesn't seem that impressive when put that way. Of course, this is all relative and it's still a blindingly quick car. But you gotta wonder how much all that aero fussiness like the swan tail rear wing really adds to the performance improvement, at the cost of ruining the looks...