A limit on the number of specialty manufacturers

[Classic Anycar]

I don't want to see 1 million specialty manufacturers. Not every supercar should be in the game. There are as many specialty manufacturers as there are entrepreneurial businesses. In fact, the companies that build these supercars are entrepreneurs. Just a few should be in the game as prizes, but don't dedicate 100 pages to them, they'll just clog up the game, since they only have one car.

I also don't want to see pages dedicated to tuners. I don't want to see a Mazdaspeed page. Mazdaspeed vehicles should be under Mazda, and should be limited to maybe about one version per model, like 1 Mazdaspeed Miata, 1 Mazdaspeed Protege, etc. I don't want to go to Japan and find that 9/10 manufacturers are tuners.

 

[Captain_insane]

Seeing as GT5 (if it will be called that) is produced mostly in Japan that's unlikely to happen.

 

[ExigeEvan]

It's a stupid idea.

This game is supposed to be as diverse as possible, if we started getting rid of low volume manufacturers then we'd be taking away from the game.

 

[Classic Anycar]

I just don't want a guarantee that, if a company is capable of making an 800 horsepower supercar, then it is going to be in Gran Turismo. There are too many companies, and the normal cars would be neglected in favor of the ultra-expensive supercars.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ I completely agree, especially most people here in GTP will prefer ultra-high performance cars (like Koniggsegg, Henessey) than those easier to attain speciality cars (like Tommy Kaira, HPA).

(:

 

[Famine]

I just don't want a guarantee that, if a company is capable of making an 800 horsepower supercar, then it is going to be in Gran Turismo. There are too many companies, and the normal cars would be neglected in favor of the ultra-expensive supercars.

"There are too many companies" and you wouldn't want to have an 800hp supercar in GT5 if it's from a "specialty" company?

Have you lost your mind?


TUNERS should go in with the standard vehicle's manufacturers, yes, but every ground-up manufactured car deserves to be in with its manufacturer.


I think you're having problems grasping the sheer space available on BluRay. You're wanting to "make room", where it isn't necessary, by removing things.

 

[95GTIVR6]

I think you're having problems grasping the sheer space available on BluRay. You're wanting to "make room", where it isn't necessary, by removing things.

That is very true, nothing should be taken away from GT4 in my opinion. With all that space left over there should be plenty of new exciting things to add.

And i personally dont mind the Tuner cars, the respective tuners that are acknowledged by the companies are already under the manufacturer name. (Honda/Mugen, Dodge/Mopar, etc).

 

[Classic Anycar]

"There are too many companies" and you wouldn't want to have an 800hp supercar in GT5 if it's from a "specialty" company?

Have you lost your mind?


TUNERS should go in with the standard vehicle's manufacturers, yes, but every ground-up manufactured car deserves to be in with its manufacturer.


I think you're having problems grasping the sheer space available on BluRay. You're wanting to "make room", where it isn't necessary, by removing things.

1. It's not that I wouldn't want those cars, it's just that I don't want it to look like an arcade-style game with hundreds of supercars, while they neglect the more interesting normal cars.

2. I just don't want a dealership for every tuner. When was the last time you saw a Mazdaspeed or AB Flug dealership?

3. I just don't want all of the "supercool" things to take away the fun of what GT is supposed to be: a game where you use regular cars, not supercars, in a race.

 

[Dave A]

They hardly did that in GT4, I think about 80% possibly more of the road cars in GT4 are the more common everyday cars, I don't think theres much of a risk of the supercars taking over a GT game.

 

[McLaren]

I don't want to see 1 million specialty manufacturers. Not every supercar should be in the game. There are as many specialty manufacturers as there are entrepreneurial businesses. In fact, the companies that build these supercars are entrepreneurs. Just a few should be in the game as prizes, but don't dedicate 100 pages to them, they'll just clog up the game, since they only have one car.

I also don't want to see pages dedicated to tuners. I don't want to see a Mazdaspeed page. Mazdaspeed vehicles should be under Mazda, and should be limited to maybe about one version per model, like 1 Mazdaspeed Miata, 1 Mazdaspeed Protege, etc. I don't want to go to Japan and find that 9/10 manufacturers are tuners.

Screw that idea man! The more supercars, the meerier!

Saker, Spectre, Vemac, Orca Engineering, Hispano Suiza, and more.

I say, include more of the manufacturers whose only car is a supercar. You know they have performance, and it won't be expensive to get them.

Tell Saker you want their car, and I'm sure they'll give it to you knowing it'll be in a game.

 

[Classic Anycar]

They hardly did that in GT4, I think about 80% possibly more of the road cars in GT4 are the more common everyday cars, I don't think theres much of a risk of the supercars taking over a GT game.

This was a response to the unbelieveable amount of tuner cars and specialty manufacturers on the wishlist.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah but a wishlist means nothing, ideally GT5 would have every car ever made in it, but thats never going to happen, I don't mind a large number of specialist manufacturers and cars, but theres not much of a risk of them outnumbering the regular Japanese cars, let alone the total everyday cars in the game.

 

[Famine]

This was a response to the unbelieveable amount of tuner cars and specialty manufacturers on the wishlist.

Tell it to the wishlist then. I agree - my first thought when scanning it was "since when are AbFlug a manufacturer?", but your post indicates you'd prefer not to have "specialty manufacturers" (that is "manufacturers") when I believe you mean "tuning houses" which could be incorporated into manufacturer headings.

Certain "tuning houses" need their own manufacturer plot. Brabus, Tommy kaira, Ruf all have tuned cars but build their own vehicles too.

But there really isn't anything to worry about in terms of "x" supplanting "y" - the vehicle models are significantly bigger, but the BluRay disc is.

 

[James2097]

The models will take that much longer to create etc however... its not about disc space, its about time constraints for development...

GT3 didn't have that many cars compared to GT2, I don't expect GT5 to hold onto as many as GT4, regardless of available storage space.

 

[Famine]

Not really, no.

The models have already been created - though granted there'll be a few new cars they'll want to include which they didn't have at their test days. They had to be "detuned" for GT4/PS2 graphics.

Each model takes about 2 man-weeks to make. This means that 7 guys can do a car every two days - and they've got well over 365 days until GT5, and they've HAD well over 365 days since GT4 went off for duplication. Add in the 800+ models they've already got, including the ones left out from GT4, and you've got well over 1,000 cars.

 

[Dave A]

The GT4 models are not the same as the GT5 models. I doubt very much the models have already been made, it's no simple task to detune a car model, let alone create a car model to an nuknown spec and detune it. Some GT5 cars will have been made, well HAVE been we've already seen a couple (the Evo and RX7 at the start of the TGS vid) but I doubt PD will have made any car models for GT5 before the PS3's full specs were given to them building a car model based on guesswork could create a lot more work than leaving it until you know what your building it to. They HAVE had over a year now, so a good number of cars could/should have been done. The GT4 car models wouldn't work in GT5 for two reasons, firstly they arn't upto the standard that GT5 will set as I said it's no simple task descailing a car model and reducing the polygons used on a scale that would be involved here, it would be quicker to just do two seperate models. Secondly KY wants to include damage, GT4's models will not be able to show visual damage at a level the I'd expect KY would implement in a GT game, they could only be bent and twisted and parts cannot be taken off them because the etire shell on each car is generally modelled a a single piece.

 

[Famine]

Trust me when I say that they did more in the photoshoots than simply taking pictures sufficient for the PS2/GT4. There are already a significant number of GT5-spec car models done.

 

[Dave A]

I know they took all the data they needed for GT5 alot of if not most of the preperaion work for "GT4" was actually for GT5, but GT5's actual car models won't have been started until at the very earliest the day they got the full PS3 specs which will probably have been aroung August-September last year. It;d be such a bad move for them to create a 100k poly car and then go to such lenths to reduce it to 5 or 6k, it'd be far quicker to just create two seperate models. I believe this is the reason we saw the two Vision GT vids and no proper GT5 vids, beause there just isn't enough GT5 models that have been fully completed.

 

[James2097]

Yes, they would definately have taken enough hi-res raw data to make PS3 level models with, but to create game-ready models when they didn't even have PS3 dev kits or know what they were aiming at poly-wise? Back when GT4 was getting made PD didn't even know how many cars they were aiming for to be on screen at once for GT5... I don't think they have loads of PS3-ready car models. They would have shown more than just that RX7 and Evo in the latest trailer.

They will have to create models and tweak them all considerably to fit the PS3. It WILL take time. My assumption of less cars than GT4 stands. I'll be pleasantly surprised if there are more.

You said what I wanted to say pretty much live4speed. 👍

 

[Famine]

It's also a lot harder to get the whole team, go back to the points around the world and rephotograph the cars again (IF the cars still exist and they can trace the new owners if they've been shifted on - a nightmare for the hyper-rare ones) every time there's a new game. The shots they took were hundreds of times more detailed than they will need even for GT5.


Though what their excuse for the sound recording was I've no idea.

 

[Dave A]

Whether theres more cars than GT4 or less is irrelivant imo, the chances are GT5 will still have more cars than any other new racing and will still feature a very wide variety of cars in it;s lineup.

 

[James2097]

HUNDREDS of times more detailed than even for GT5? Whoa there, don't go too far there...
Many cars they would've been under some pretty prohibitive time restraints (when visiting various cars) to collect all the data in time. Not EVERYTHING would be in uber-hi-res IMO...

All the Skylines and Lancers would have super hi-res data for sure! Some of the foriegn cars they didn't have really extensive access to may have been rushed a bit with lower quality data sufficient for GT4 only... just a guess.

PD will have to take new data anyway, new cars get made!

 

[Dave A]

If they have access to the car a all, why not just use the top equiptment, it'd make absolutely no sense for them to use inferior settings or equptment to record the data for some cars. There are some cars they DIDN'T get access to full stop, like the Speed 12, it was in pieces all through GT4's development so they'll have got specific data from TVR and just used that. But for every car they got access to they'll have taken the same quality and similar ammounts of data from each.

 

[James2097]

Some of the GT4 cars that were also in GT3 could easily have been touched up GT3 models...

I dunno LFS, maybe gettin the top level of data takes longer to set up, needs more shots or generally takes longer to 'get'. This would be very important when PD is on location and needs to get data for 30 cars in an afternoon...

Maybe its a really quick process, but I doubt it.

 

[Dave A]

I think every car was re-done, the cars that were drivable in GTC were re-used in GT4 I guess because they were modelled using the same tools as GT4's cars and look identical, but the GT3 cars are lower quality and PD got it down to a couple of days per model for GT4 so it wasn't a big issue re-creating the models so they are all the same quality.

The data is simply figures, scans, recordings and photographs, if you take inaccurate figures your still taking the figures so you might as well take the right ones, if your taking scans of the cars with the a 3d camera then it takes just as long whatever car you do it on, and photgraphs well, you snap a picture. The 3d camera's would take a lot of time as would the sound recording, but you can bet that once they got access to each car they did everything with it, theres no reason an owner would say yeah heres my car but youve got 5 minuets, that'd make less sense than young_warriors persistency in an argument.

 

[JohnBM01]

Alright, let me see what I can provide for this topic. We're veering a bit off topic here, so let me try to right the ship.

We have an expression called "the more, the merrier." You know what that means? It means that in terms of wanting more automobiles, we are definitely not minimalistic thinkers. GT4 tried to offer as many options to gamers as possible, and that includes low volume car makers. People say that there shouldn't be any car makers in GT5 that have only one car. I find that as rubbish, and here's why. What if a company created only one significant car? What do you do, want to ban in the next GT? Hell, if I had the money and time, what if I want to make my own car company and feature my only car in the game? There isn't a rule in Gran Turismo stating that there is a minimal requirement of how many cars should be in the game. What governing body are you to state what PD should do in terms of putting in cars. You're mad, I tell you. MAD!

To give you a breath of fresh air, I thought of an alternative for you. You know how when you go to a car dealership, you see "New Cars," "Classics," "Tune Shop," and "One-Make Races?" Well, I'd add a fifth option, which would be the tuner shop. Outside of this idea, this is why you'll see a seperate Tuner Village... it is there to showcase a specialty car maker's lineup of cars. You got Spoon (I hated that the Spoon S2000 in the Tuning Lineup wasn't the S2000 they offered), HKS, Blitz, and all that. They are not exactly manufacturer-made tuner cars, so to give credit to the ones who indeed tuned the cars, there is that seperate village of tuned automobiles. If they designed or tuned a special car, that car will be featured under the make who created the tuner masterpiece. Don't you want to check out a nice tuner car? Hey, better than stock. Think about it, a fully-complete legit street-tuned race car for the track. Who doesn't like that? Personally, I would like to see a bit more American and European tuners, not to mention HSV for my Aussies. I think Hennessey is a Houston-based tuner with some wild stuff.

Keep the Specialty Manufacturers. They are part of our world auto community as much as anything.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

To give you a breath of fresh air, I thought of an alternative for you. You know how when you go to a car dealership, you see "New Cars," "Classics," "Tune Shop," and "One-Make Races?" Well, I'd add a fifth option, which would be the tuner shop. Outside of this idea, this is why you'll see a seperate Tuner Village... it is there to showcase a specialty car maker's lineup of cars. You got Spoon (I hated that the Spoon S2000 in the Tuning Lineup wasn't the S2000 they offered), HKS, Blitz, and all that. They are not exactly manufacturer-made tuner cars, so to give credit to the ones who indeed tuned the cars, there is that seperate village of tuned automobiles. If they designed or tuned a special car, that car will be featured under the make who created the tuner masterpiece. Don't you want to check out a nice tuner car? Hey, better than stock. Think about it, a fully-complete legit street-tuned race car for the track. Who doesn't like that? Personally, I would like to see a bit more American and European tuners, not to mention HSV for my Aussies. I think Hennessey is a Houston-based tuner with some wild stuff.

Keep the Specialty Manufacturers. They are part of our world auto community as much as anything.

^ I agree with you on that. (:

-> PD should include more Speciality tune shops in GT5, and not just in Japan, but the rest of the world as well. With the likes of:

- Gemballa = Heavily modified Porsches (another nice alternative if Porsche is close to impossible to be in GT5).
- Hennessey = Proud tuners of Vipers and some Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler cars.
- Roush = A major tuner and racing arm of Ford USA.
- Abt = Specializes on VW and Audi's.
- Tommy Kaira (not just the ZZ Roadster/manufacterer, but the tuning division) = Specializes on Nissan and Subaru's.
- AC Schnitzer = A major tuner for BMW and (BMW-based) Mini.
- Mallet = One of the biggest tuners for GM USA.
- Irmscher = GM's European Tuning arm.
- Tickford = Ford Aussie's tuning arm.
- Comptech = Honda/Acura US tuning specialists.
- Dinan = A major BMW tuner in USA.
- Jun = Specializes most of JDM's finest.
- Top Secret = Specializing high horsepowered JDM cars
- Lingenfelter = Specializing tuning Corvettes.
- Toda = An engine tuner in Japan.
- Edelbrock = Specializing in V8 American Muscle Cars.

^ Well sorry for the list, I just can't help it. (:

 

[JohnBM01]

I'll make this quick post to add to your point, "The Vanishing Boy." I can think of only one game I've played before which features Gemballa, and that is "Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3." Thing I hated was that I couldn't tune up a Gemballa. I don't think you could modify ANYTHING for it, so sort of a waste of money in TXR3.

 

[MugenVTEC]

^ I agree with you on that. (:

-> PD should include more Speciality tune shops in GT5, and not just in Japan, but the rest of the world as well. With the likes of:

- Gemballa = Heavily modified Porsches (another nice alternative if Porsche is close to impossible to be in GT5).
- Hennessey = Proud tuners of Vipers and some Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler cars.
- Roush = A major tuner and racing arm of Ford USA.
- Abt = Specializes on VW and Audi's.
- Tommy Kaira (not just the ZZ Roadster/manufacterer, but the tuning division) = Specializes on Nissan and Subaru's.
- AC Schnitzer = A major tuner for BMW and (BMW-based) Mini.
- Mallet = One of the biggest tuners for GM USA.
- Irmscher = GM's European Tuning arm.
- Tickford = Ford Aussie's tuning arm.
- Comptech = Honda/Acura US tuning specialists.
- Dinan = A major BMW tuner in USA.
- Jun = Specializes most of JDM's finest.
- Top Secret = Specializing high horsepowered JDM cars
- Lingenfelter = Specializing tuning Corvettes.
- Toda = An engine tuner in Japan.
- Edelbrock = Specializing in V8 American Muscle Cars.

^ Well sorry for the list, I just can't help it. (:

More importantly, is that every tuner shop has their own technology. A part from a shop maybe doesnt had as much power as another. In GT4, if you tune a Skyline at Nismo, HKS or Mines, its all the same. I think PD should integrate that every shop as their numbers like in real life. Example, you take a Mugen and JUN to tune an Integra. Add the same parts of each shop, and put them on the dynometer, it wont show the same numbers. Thats something that could be great in my opinion

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ In addition to that too, GT5 should have that "Super Autobacs" (for JDM's) type shop on where they can carry performance parts that doesn't have their own tuned cars (like Exedy, AP Racing, and Brembo) but not those b*** s*** tuners (like APC, Wings West, *or anyting that is on Pep Boys*). I'd like too add Jeg's for muscle cars, and I honestly don't know for European cars. (: