A new and revolutionary tuning option

[Greycap]

This might sound stupid and it also might make the game too easy. Despite this I still want to say it.

In real life many racing series allow you to take an ordinary FF car and modify it to the series' regulations. One of these modifications is changing the car's drivetrain to another type. So in some series a FF car can be turned into a FR or 4WD racer. The WRC rally cars are good examples of this. My personal favourite in GT4 that I would like to see as a FR or 4WD car is the generation V Golf GTI.

So, why couldn't PD include changing the drivetrain type into GT5 or GT6? They could make it VERY expensive or limit it to FF cars only or something.

I know some of you will say that it'll ruin the idea of Gran Turismo as it would enable people to use the same car in FF and FR cups. But still, who can say that a 300 BHP 4WD Mini wouldn't be fun?

Tell me what you think.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah I think that should be an option as well as engine transplants. I think you'd need to spread series rules out as well so some allow it some dont ect. For examample a Mini converted to rwd wouldn't be allowed in the FR series ect.

 

[Greycap]

Engine transplants, do you mean that "Take the engine from a Supra and bolt it into a '83 Corolla"? If so, I second that.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, but keep it real, not Viper V10 powered Mini's ect. If theengine won't fit in the car in real life, it shouldn't fit in the game ect.

 

[Greycap]

But what if the positioning of the engine could be changed as well? I'm pretty sure that V10 could be squeezed behind the driver.

 

[stumpydino]

auto modellista is the only game i know to have engine transplants, impreza engine in a subaru 360? hell yea tho you couldnt tune it and it would only be within the manufacturer. it was a good idea though and gt5 should have it with a variety of engines to choose from like a small block chevy or a RB26 and various other ones

 

[Greycap]

I think Ford Racing (some version, the latest I guess) enabled engine transplants. Someone put a Ford GT engine into his '60s Mustang

 

[Dave A]

Forza motorsport allows it as well.

 

[Dave A]

But what if the positioning of the engine could be changed as well? I'm pretty sure that V10 could be squeezed behind the driver.

Yweah, I mean I've seen mid-engined Mini's before and a mid-engined Lagun, but I don't think you'd get an 8 litre V10 mounted anywhere in a small car, it would completely screw up the cars balance anyway if you could. There a lot more to transplanting an engine than the size of it, the type of chassis your mounting it to, the areas of the chassis you can mount it to, how the engine is intended to be mounted, eg if you put some engines form one car into another car that were mounted one way, the only way to mount it may be the opposite way in the other car which can result in the transmission being ahead of the engine. In a frint engined car thats no good. Theres too much to cover in a simple post by me, but it's more complicated than theres 100 litres of space back here so an engine x big can fit.

 

[spykerdriver]

If they put these "advanced" tuning options in the game, they shouldn't be available to everybody. You should have a certian win ratio or a high enough average A-spec points per race.

 

[Greycap]

I think the best way to keep them "advanced" is high enough price. If someone wants to pay, lets say 150.000Cr, to make their Golf FR so they can do it. It isn't wise, but it should be possible for everyone who wants to do it.

 

[Famine]

Yweah, I mean I've seen mid-engined Mini's before and a mid-engined Lagun, but I don't think you'd get an 8 litre V10 mounted anywhere in a small car, it would completely screw up the cars balance anyway if you could. There a lot more to transplanting an engine than the size of it, the type of chassis your mounting it to, the areas of the chassis you can mount it to, how the engine is intended to be mounted, eg if you put some engines form one car into another car that were mounted one way, the only way to mount it may be the opposite way in the other car which can result in the transmission being ahead of the engine. In a frint engined car thats no good. Theres too much to cover in a simple post by me, but it's more complicated than theres 100 litres of space back here so an engine x big can fit.

You still could do it. I've heard of all sorts of crazy crap, including a 5 litre V8 (original) Mini. Though rotary anythings are t3h awesomes.

 

[T5-R]

You still could do it. I've heard of all sorts of crazy crap, including a 5 litre V8 (original) Mini. Though rotary anythings are t3h awesomes.

Pah a measly 5 litre V8, I remember seeing a F1 car engine stuck onto the front on a proper mini on the cover of a car magazine years ago. Admittedly there wasn't much of the front of the mini remaining...

 

[futuredrifter]

Thats an awsome idea and i have idea to add to it...
Having changeable drivetrains and engine swaps can lead to even more races. For instance, A type R race that would require an engine swap to gain the extra horsepower, and an optional drivtrain switch. If there is a Drag Race feature added, then we could having super powered monsters burning rubber on the drag strip. And these cars could have started out as lo-cost used cars. It may not be the best idea, but, its somthing to start with.

FUTUREDRIFTER

 

[Freddy]

I like the idea.

You'd have to make it expensive though otherwise it would just be boring.

I like the ideas people have suggested so far.

 

[futuredrifter]

yes...making it expensive could pose a real intresting challenge. We would have to think twice when buying upgrades. If it doesnt work out right then buy a new car, redoing another engine swap and buying upgrades may not happen for a while....

 

[niky]

You still could do it. I've heard of all sorts of crazy crap, including a 5 litre V8 (original) Mini. Though rotary anythings are t3h awesomes.

OMG. Are you really his purpleness? I can't believe you just used the "t3h" word.

Don't forget the V8 FR Honda Civic hatch... or the V8 FR Accord.

This would be okay maybe, if PD had a list of all possible swaps and prices, but since that might take too much time... I don't know. I was arguing in a previous thread for the "common" swaps to be included in the game SOHC-VTEC, SR20-RB25, anything-V8... or maybe some swaps could be available through tuner shops. Would make them much more useful.

Or PD could just rank the engines by size and say all engines of X size will fit into these cars... not realistic, but would be fun as hell.

 

[Dave A]

So far theres three areas that have been mentioned here.

Drive conversion, ie changine which wheelsare driven so you can turn an FF car into an F4 or FR.
Engine swaps, ie swap that weedy 1.4, 4 cylinder engine for a 3.6 flat 6 from a Porsche.
And engine location, now this can be very, very interesting if explored deeply. You can have it so you pick you engine (can even be the same one you already have), then you see how that fits into different areas of your car. Yuo can opt to have the engine moved frther backinto the bay if theres space to do so, you can have the engine ripped out the front and oplaced in the middle or the back if you want ect. But I'm thinking, choosing an engine and not just saying you want it in the front, middle or rear, but choosing exactley where you want it, seeing how far back and how low you can push that flat 6 in the front bay ect.

So you have this car lets say a 1.4 Renault Clio (just cos Famine loves them so much), you get out your cash and turn it into a 4WD machine set to take on the rally stages.
You do that and win and now you want more, so out comes the engine and you place a 3.6 flat 6 from an older 911 or Ruf if Porsche's arn't in. But you don't want to put it in the front. So you decide you want a mid engined 4wd Clio. So you choose to have the engine placed behind the driver but infront of the rear axel and then you choose the mounting points, where you mount the engine will play a big part in how the cars CoG is affected, how the cars balance is affected ect.

So you then have a Mid enined, 3.6 flat 6 powered Clio with 4wd.

I totally agree on cost, each of these processes should be very expensive, to a point where it's probably not worth it in most cars. I'd say drive conversions should be the cheapest, around 150k going by the rates you make cash in GT4. Engine swaps should be 150k but you haev tobuythe engine on top of that. Moving the position of the engine should cost 150k if your justchanging the mounts in the existing engine bay, 350k if your moving it to another pary of the chassis altogether like moving a front mounted engine to the back.

 

[NSX-R]

FF to AWD, I can understand, it's where Evos came from... but FF to FR? Do you have to swap the whole drivetrain?

 

[Dave A]

I've seen it done, it's a similar ammount of work to 4wd conversions, I've seen it done to a few cars most notably a Ford Fiesta which was seen beating a Porsche 911 GT3 (last model not current)

 

[Tenacious D]

Eh, I don't know. I'd just as soon see something like this available as purpose built moddable cars available at mod shops. I wouldn't mind much if you could go nuts modding certain cars, but if you made them available as expensive race cars, that would be another limiting option.

 

[Dave A]

But they arn't expensive racecars, how many Porsche engined Mini's have you seen with the engine mountedat the back racing round Silverstone. Keep the race cars based on real race cars, make themods available at a high price, it's not like it's a fictional mod or anything. It's like Famine used to say about the Nitrous kits, they'rereal they're allowed in a few forms of motorsport,so why not put them in. At the time I was opposed, but having them i GT4 has not in any way or form had a negative impact on my enjoyment of the game. Simply limit mods like these by price, they don't need to start screwing with us by inventing cars, I mean besides the dream cars which are usually based on real race cars in the first place.

 

[Famine]

FF to AWD, I can understand, it's where Evos came from... but FF to FR? Do you have to swap the whole drivetrain?

Have a hunt on the interweb for the Ford Focus V8...

 

[NSX-R]

Have a hunt on the interweb for the Ford Focus V8...

Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP) used a sport-compact car to display the company's latest addition to an already powerful crate engine line-up – a modified Focus RS converted to rear-wheel drive and V-8 power – with the introduction of the Focus RS8 at the 2003 Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) show.

Using the European Focus RS as a starting point, FRPP worked its engineering magic to mate its new, all-alloy, 5.0-liter 4-valve 'Cammer' crate engine – cranking out a pavement-pounding 420 naturally aspirated horsepower – into the engine bay of the Focus. Although a handful of aftermarket firms have successfully mated Ford V-8 power with a Focus, the RS8 was built to show the versatility of a 'Cammer' crate engine and 'plug-and-play' engine electronics installation in a pure stock-looking Ford Focus.

The foundation of the 'Cammer' crate engine is rooted in the Ford SVT Mustang Cobra 4.6-liter four-valve engine family. However, the crate motor's flanged cylinder liners help provide 94mm (instead of 90.2mm) cylinder bores, creating a full 5.0-liters of piston displacement. And while the motor employs the 2003-04 SVT Mustang Cobra 'Terminator' forged crankshaft with six-bolt mains and Manley 'H-Beam' connecting rods for superior strength, the block itself is specially reinforced in the crankcase web areas for high torque loads.

One look at the RS8 would suggest that its transformation from a production front-driver into a rear-drive pocket rocket was a study in simplicity. But in reality, Ford Racing engineers had their work cut out for them from the start. Beyond fitting the drivetrain, there was the challenge of designing new suspensions front and rear. FRPP engineers put together a prototype setup inspired by Kugel Komponents up front, and a rear unit locating a Ford Racing 8.8-inch differential while offering adjustable ride height using Multimatic dampers. The newly-designed rear-wheel drive conversion kit will be sold through the FRPP catalog.

Outside, the RS8 turns heads, thanks to the handsome European Focus RS styling cues and shimmering Blue Pearl Coat exterior paint treatment. Inside, the Focus RS provided the seating while Ford Racing chipped in with its Focus A-Pillar Gauge Pod and a full complement of Ford Racing Gauges. Also installed were a Harmon/Becker Traffic-Pro, a Sirius Satellite Radio system and Infinity amps and speakers – just to make sure the tunes are powerful, too.

That is expensive!

 

[ExigeEvan]

Pff I've seen a V12 in a mini..

It was a from a speed boat so it was like 3litre

 

[Emohawk]

Best Focus evar.
The engine and transmission are located as far back as possible, giving the RS8 superior weight distribution to the stock Focus.

 

[stumpydino]

thats one hot sleeper there 👍

 

[niky]

Old news... but I'm still in love... how they got it to fit without gutting the entire front end is beyond me.

But I'd still like to limit this to cars on which conversion kits are commercially available or common. That Focus, the Ford Fiesta (is that the CWS-Tuning one? with the 1.6 Mazda turbo and the Suzuki Samurai drivetrain?)

Heck, I'd like a Dahlback Golf while we're at it.

Having every possible swap/drivetrain mod would mean that they would have to model engine weight, size, placement, car front/rear balance, torque steer, changes to steering ratios and turning circles (for FF to FR or MR conversions), etc.... auuggggh!

Oh, on a more realistic note, give me an infinite VCD, one which will allow me to completely lock out the differential for one set of tires.

 

[Dave A]

If they get the physics engine right inthe first place then theres not going to be much work involved other than the weight and position of the weight in the car. I think it shoulc be like real life and available for pretty much any car, just make it expensive.

 

[Specialized]

Well if we can do what everyone is talking about i think that bike engines should be option!. Imagine a original mini, with a full weight reduction with a suzuki hayabusa engine in it? I have seen examples of this engine running at 500bhp. or even Yamaha R1 engines wich can also be tuned to over 300 bhp and stick the engine in the boot too just for fun!!! With this set up i think we can get the magical 1hp per Kilogram ratio!!!!!