A Perfect Murder?

[Famine]

My other half and I were discussing this.

Is it possible to commit the perfect murder?

She thinks no, I think yes.

In order to commit a perfect murder you need to not only absolve yourself of guilt, but never even be a suspect in the first place - and preferably have someone else take the fall and prison sentence - or do it in such a way that murder isn't suspected (so it appears accidental or self-inflicted). This means you have to get around several hurdles first.

Motive
You must have absolutely no motive to kill the victim - apart from wanting to commit the perfect murder. The victim must be nobody you know and not be selected for any particular physical or professional characteristic. However, it's hard to fake a suicide on a random victim, so this rules out faking suicide.

Means
You must place yourself away from the scene of the crime, not only at the time of the crime, but EVER. This means that you must select a place you've never been to, though it must be within a couple of hours of driving distance and neither leave nor take any physical evidence - gross or forensic - not be caught on CCTV, not ben seen by anybody, have a cast-iron alibi (though if you're never a suspect it won't matter - but this includes not having the neighbours notice you leave your house at 1am and come back at 4am) and leave no paper trail to yourself (like, hiring a car to go do it).

Weapon
Knives leave entry wounds, so unless you use the victim's knife, clean it and leave it, they're off the list. Same goes with guns and rifling marks. Blunt instruments leave coup-contrecoup markings. Besides, these methods allow for forensic evidence to be left on you (specifically blood spatters) - and it's difficult to make these deaths look accidental or self-inflicted. So you need to use either no weapon at all - "falling down the stairs", for instance, or "accidental electrocution" - or use your bare hands, gloved (obviously).


So... what do you think? Is it possible to commit the perfect murder - and do you believe you could plan it?

 

[James2097]

If your DNA isn't on record, wouldn't it not really matter if you leave DNA evidence (or even fingerprints)? If you're never a suspect and have zero criminal record (and thus your DNA isn't on file), surely a certain less careful attitude could be employed. This would surely be fine if you only plan to pull off one murder in your lifetime, and never get in trouble with the cops for anything else...


Btw, thread topic kicks bottom Famine. I used to talk about this when I was a kid so much... but not for ages... think of it as mission: accomplished...

 

[Sage]

This is the kind of stuff you and Mrs. Famine like to talk about? English weather getting to you?

There’s one problem though: If you must never be near the scene of the crime, then you must hire a hitman, which would mean that you’d need some kind of communication with him.

 

[amp88]

Depends on your definition of a perfect murder. I'd say a perfect murder is one you don't get convicted for (which is a little less rigorous than your definition). If you just want to murder a random person who you don't know then I think it's entirely possible to do it and not be convicted of murder for it. Get drunk and drive into a crowd of people in a city centre. You'll probably kill at least one of them and you'll only get convicted of manslaughter, wreckless driving etc and under the current climate almost certainly get a single number of years.

To kill someone and get away with it completely is obviously an entirely different proposition. I'm sure it wouldn't take much time and/or skill to build some kind of rudimentary bomb. Get tools from the local B&Q, several pounds/kilos of gunpowder from fireworks, a remote control car for parts to make up a remote detonator and some kind of casing to hold it (filled with nails if you want to be nasty). Go into a McDonalds or other fast food place with the device in your backpack, plant it in the toilets, retreat to a safe distance and trigger the device at a busy time. Chances are someone will be in the toilets and you'll be able to get away in the panic (how long would it take the police to respond to a "terrorist" attack and stop people from leaving the area), even if you couldn't get away you could throw the transmitter in a bin. What are the chances of it being traced to you if you bought the tools and remote control car from large chain shops on different days in different cities with cash?

 

[Scaff]

To kill someone and get away with it completely is obviously an entirely different proposition. I'm sure it wouldn't take much time and/or skill to build some kind of rudimentary bomb. Get tools from the local B&Q, several pounds/kilos of gunpowder from fireworks, a remote control car for parts to make up a remote detonator and some kind of casing to hold it (filled with nails if you want to be nasty). Go into a McDonalds or other fast food place with the device in your backpack, plant it in the toilets, retreat to a safe distance and trigger the device at a busy time. Chances are someone will be in the toilets and you'll be able to get away in the panic (how long would it take the police to respond to a "terrorist" attack and stop people from leaving the area), even if you couldn't get away you could throw the transmitter in a bin. What are the chances of it being traced to you if you bought the tools and remote control car from large chain shops on different days in different cities with cash?

Nah this one is a non starter in my opinion. Given the police resources that would be dedicated to such an attack in the current climate and the sheer number of CCTV cameras and eye witnesses that you would encounter in simply getting into and out of the target location.

Also bombs in themselves are rarely effective at destroying forensic evidence of the maker, personally I believe you would soon get picked up for this one.

Interesting idea and thread mind you.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Kylehnat]

Famine, it sounds like you've thought this through an awful lot

*changes name, relocates*

Not having a criminal record would help, as that would make it seem less likely that one would commit such a crime if ever interrogated. Evidence is the key thing here. Don't leave it. The problem is, it so hard not to leave any trace of your presence. Forensics teams are very good at what they do. So, you'd have to make damn sure that nothing, and I mean nothing comes off of your body. Hair, skin flakes, sweat, whatever. Sure, police may not know who it belongs to, but the mere fact that you left evidence negates the "perfect crime" scenario.

Now the witnesses. Do it in the middle of the night? Sure, everyone is asleep, but so is your victim. How can you make that death look like an accident? Nobody sustains lethal injuries while asleep. (Maybe they fell down the stairs, crawled back into bed and then died.) Any other time of day, and there will be someone noticing something, however minute it may seem.

 

[Pako]

My other half and I were discussing this.

Is it possible to commit the perfect murder?

She thinks no, I think yes.

In order to commit a perfect murder you need to not only absolve yourself of guilt, but never even be a suspect in the first place - and preferably have someone else take the fall and prison sentence - or do it in such a way that murder isn't suspected (so it appears accidental or self-inflicted). This means you have to get around several hurdles first.

Motive
You must have absolutely no motive to kill the victim - apart from wanting to commit the perfect murder. The victim must be nobody you know and not be selected for any particular physical or professional characteristic. However, it's hard to fake a suicide on a random victim, so this rules out faking suicide.

Means
You must place yourself away from the scene of the crime, not only at the time of the crime, but EVER. This means that you must select a place you've never been to, though it must be within a couple of hours of driving distance and neither leave nor take any physical evidence - gross or forensic - not be caught on CCTV, not ben seen by anybody, have a cast-iron alibi (though if you're never a suspect it won't matter - but this includes not having the neighbours notice you leave your house at 1am and come back at 4am) and leave no paper trail to yourself (like, hiring a car to go do it).

Weapon
Knives leave entry wounds, so unless you use the victim's knife, clean it and leave it, they're off the list. Same goes with guns and rifling marks. Blunt instruments leave coup-contrecoup markings. Besides, these methods allow for forensic evidence to be left on you (specifically blood spatters) - and it's difficult to make these deaths look accidental or self-inflicted. So you need to use either no weapon at all - "falling down the stairs", for instance, or "accidental electrocution" - or use your bare hands, gloved (obviously).


So... what do you think? Is it possible to commit the perfect murder - and do you believe you could plan it?

Fatal hunting accident?
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/ihea/hea1998.html

I wonder if any of these 'accidental' fatalities were actually perfect murders?

So why are guns off the list?

 

[James2097]

I'd stay away from a crowded area like a Maccas - just too many people that would remember your face like Scaff said.

One thing that Famine mentioned that no one has thought about is - absolving yourself from guilt. What exactly do you mean by this Famine? You're always going to FEEL guilty about it, even if you don't ever get arrested... Maybe a perfect murder needs to be done to a victim that you're absolutely 100% sure (in your mind) deserves to die. Then you need a motive, but so long as its impossible to work out your motive, you should be fine.

For a murder to be 'perfect' IMO, you need to be able to totally forget about it after you commit it, and feel good about it. If you felt really guilty and bad about yourself forever after committing it, it would raise the chances of you turning yourself in at some point down the track when you're sick not sleeping at night. I believe the perfect murder can only be committed by someone with a heart of stone, or with a motive so strange and illogical that it's impossible to work out. If you don't have a heart of stone, you would need to think the victim deserved death to commit the perfect murder IMO.
Otherwise, your own sense of guilt is itself a potential risk.

 

[amp88]

Nah this one is a non starter in my opinion. Given the police resources that would be dedicated to such an attack in the current climate and the sheer number of CCTV cameras and eye witnesses that you would encounter in simply getting into and out of the target location.

Also bombs in themselves are rarely effective at destroying forensic evidence of the maker, personally I believe you would soon get picked up for this one.

Interesting idea and thread mind you.

Regards

Scaff

Student seen entering McDonalds with backpack on, orders a meal, sits down and eats it, goes to toilet and leaves. Doesn't sound like anything dodgy to me (it happens all the time). All the fast food places in Glasgow are packed during the day, there are too many people for just another student to stand out.

I don't see there being any forensic evidence left over. Assemble the bomb and the radio transmitter in a "clean room" type area, wear gloves, mask, body suit to stop any fingerprints, DNA or other physical evidence being left. When you get to the location, put on some gloves again to plant the bomb. Dispose of the tools and parts you haven't used in a local dump. I don't think the chances of getting caught are that high.

 

[MugenVTEC]

I'd say, hire the mafia, or learn how to lie properly so you don't get detected by the "lie dectector" (is it the real name ???).

 

[Niels]

I'd say, hire the mafia, or learn how to lie properly so you don't get detected by the "lie dectector" (is it the real name ???).

The trick to that is to be icecold and to not get intimidated by the questions. If you do get intimidated in a single small way then you could become a little sweaty, and the ly-detector works on that if I'm right. They test it by sending a little electric-current through your finger or something, and when the electricity is conducted better with some question as others then it means you lied or something like it.
At least...I believe that this is how that thing works.

 

[MugenVTEC]

The trick to that is to be icecold and to not get intimidated by the questions. If you do get intimidated in a single small way then you could become a little sweaty, and the ly-detector works on that if I'm right. They test it by sending a little electric-current through your finger or something, and when the electricity is conducted better with some question as others then it means you lied or something like it.
At least...I believe that this is how that thing works.

You can be icecold, but if what you answer has no sence, that won't help you at all... lol

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

I not only agree with you that someone could pull off the perfect murder, but that it has been done in the past numerous times. Of course, back in the old days, forensic science was non-existent meaning as long as you weren't seen by anyone, it was almost impossible to get caught.

Today though, it can be much more difficult since science has taken us pretty far (although, not that far) in solving unwitnessed murders. The biggest problem is always the body, which basically gives away the time, place (sometimes) and how the person was murdered. So, my question before going on further is, if the body is never found, is it still the perfect murder?

I could easily snatch someone that I don't know at night while they're hitch hiking, take them to my parents farm, kill them in a room lined with plastic sheets and bury them in a pre dug hole filled with lime or feed him to my pigs. Since I don't know the person, and as long as no one saw me, they'd have no leads pointing to me, and with my farm and/or the hole out by the tree's in the back being so far away from the last known place the person was at, by the time they did find the body, it would be gone. The plastic can be taken care of at night in our burn pit, and the knife be burried in some out of the way remote location. If your able to pull this off, then feeling guilty really isn't your biggest worry.

The body is never found, and you go on living your life knowing you pulled off the perfect murder. 👍

P.S. I am not liable for anyone who goes out and puts my words into action.

 

[Famine]

This is the kind of stuff you and Mrs. Famine like to talk about? English weather getting to you?

There’s one problem though: If you must never be near the scene of the crime, then you must hire a hitman, which would mean that you’d need some kind of communication with him.

You can be there, just never placed there by anyone.

 

[MugenVTEC]

You can be there, just never placed there by anyone.

Grow your hairs very long to make a mask. Then after the murder, cut them and burn the cutted hairs.

 

[Scaff]

Student seen entering McDonalds with backpack on, orders a meal, sits down and eats it, goes to toilet and leaves. Doesn't sound like anything dodgy to me (it happens all the time). All the fast food places in Glasgow are packed during the day, there are too many people for just another student to stand out.

Which would then start a process of elimination of every person in the McDonalds within a time window (which could be determined from the bomb remains) who visited the toilet in question. Tracing that person back from CCTV records would establish a path to the target and start a path of travel.

Media assistance would soon help to narrow it down and a nice reward would soon have you down as a suspect.

Remember while you would not stand out at the time (this is not about prevention here, but detection after the fact) it would give a huge amount of info to start the process.

I don't see there being any forensic evidence left over. Assemble the bomb and the radio transmitter in a "clean room" type area, wear gloves, mask, body suit to stop any fingerprints, DNA or other physical evidence being left. When you get to the location, put on some gloves again to plant the bomb. Dispose of the tools and parts you haven't used in a local dump. I don't think the chances of getting caught are that high.

Unless you have access to an industry class clean room (which in itself would leave an evidence trail) you are unlikely to be able to remove all possiable forensic evidence. Even items assembed in clean rooms can get contaminated.

Also as a potential 'terrorist' the level of police resource thrown at you would be great.

Regards

Scaff

 

[amp88]

Hmmm. I'm off to try something. I might be back later... :whistle innocently:

Well, for all our sake's I hope you're right and I'm wrong

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

Killing and body disposal is also key. If you don't want to move the body, soap in a sock, an icicle, or even an empty syringe would be hard to pinpoint. With a conventional weapon that can be traced, the body needs to disappear. If near a deep body of water, some bullets to the abdomen to prevent it floating back up, and some heavy weights for insurance should keep 'em down. If you have access, as SRV2LOW4ME said, pigs will eat everything, even clothes. Burying is tricky, becuse fresh dig sites can be easy to detect, even if you do a good job covering.
Rember: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.

 

[daan]

My other half and I were discussing this.

Is it possible to commit the perfect murder?

She thinks no, I think yes.

***Loads of stuff about killing people***

So... what do you think? Is it possible to commit the perfect murder - and do you believe you could plan it?

Errrr, I'm just off to book a hotel for the UKGTP. I don't think staying with you is that good an idea anymore.....

 

[Danoff]

Ok, this is an interesting (and morbid) thought experiment, so I'll play along.

The perfect murder would have to not look like a murder at all. It needs to look like an accident of some sort. Here are some examples:

Sabbotage the person's parachute (slightly) while skydiving
Mess with their scuba diving equipment
Purposefully get into a side impact car accident while your victim is in the passenger seat
Give them a few extra feet on their bungee cord
and the number one way to kill someone?
Shoot them in the fact while quail hunting.

Budum tish. I'll be here all week folks.

 

[Robin]

It is literally impossible to have never had some (even the tinyest) connection with the murder...... the average brit is caught 300 times a day on CCTV..... plus it would be really hard to get anywhere and commit a crime without someone knowing it...... there is no fullproof way to murder someone, it maybe a good well thought out way which puts you as such a low end suspect that it leads you to getting away with it but there is no possible physical way to kill someone without being involved.

BTW, this thread is disturbing...... especially in a Gran Turismo Forum!

............

Oh and btw, you would have to live for the rest of your life looking over your sholder..... that would be the real price.....

 

[Ram-Rod]

I think I'll give this a crack. I live in Houston, so somewhere along the Galveston bay would be where I would probably go. I know absolutly nobody who lives there, and it's within a few hours of driving. My wepon would be a bat. Just a plain bat used in baseball. A wooden one. Nothing special, just a regual wooden MLB bat. Going down the bay, I'd run into a little store along the coastline, the only one that is open at Midnight, but they are closing, and only the store owner is left in there. I'd notice that the owner is a lady, and that's she's just heading out, then I ask, "Oh your leaving? Man, I need a bottle of water before I leave out for home." She thinks, why not? I'm the only person that is still roaming the line. I notice that there is a TV inside the little coastline store. I ask if I could enjoy a snack while watching the traffic on the way back. She doesn't seem to suspicous, as I'm wearing a Metallica shirt (HELL YEAH!) and Skateboarding shorts, with my white DC shoes (that's about what I wear every day, no really, just a different Metallica/any other shirt). So I eat on a little snack, and engage the owner in a conversation. We chat and watch the news. After drinking some water, I ask where the bathroom is. She points me in the direction. As I walk over there, I'm able to see the Emergency Exit room. I also notice a brick setting outside of the building. I close the bathroom door, and open the Exit door. I leave it open with the brick so it doesn't close. I walk over to my car (blue toyota camry 1984) and open the trunk. I grab my bat, and head back in. I grab the two bricks and flush the toliet, as if I was done. I listen to the door outside, and I notice the store owner sit down, couning the money I gave her for the food. I slowly open the door, and whack her with the bat over the head. Now fallen, I close the store, and shut the light's off, so nobody comes. I grab her stuff, and use the two bricks to keep the Exit open, and put the stuff in my trunk, and close it. As I head back in, I pull her outside to the ocean. I tie the two bricks to her feet, and drop her in. Cleaning up any mess that was left, I put it into the trash can, and empty the can into my cars trunk. With the bag sealed of course. After this, I start up my car. Using the cap from the water bottle, I jar it into the engine, as I hit the gas petle, it jerks forward, I leap out the side, as the car goes into the water. But the car stops halfway in. The seafloor is shallow. I take the cap out, and drive the the boardwalk. I then lock in the cap, press the gas, let the car run into the ocean, and walk away. I have the victims keys in my pocket. I find her car, and take off into a new place.

- Was this what I was suppose to post? This is my plan to do it. Sorry if I was to post something else. For me, this is my perfect murder.

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

It's not perfect if everyone knows .







Please don't kill me.

 

[Ram-Rod]

Pfft. Should have seen that one coming. You seriously think that my plan is good? Well it says please don't kill me. Seriously. It's good? I've got more plans, if anyone wants em'. But I'm keeping my best one secret.

 

[niky]

The BIG question is... does it count if the person means nothing to you?

If you're planning the Perfect Murder, you might as well do in somebody you really hate. It's much too easy to get away with killing someone at random at a place where people don't know who you are, wouldn't suspect you of being, and can't place you at during the time of the murder.

What, say, if you want to murder your boss?

 

[Speedy Samurai]

Doesn't anyone else think this topic is a little irresponsible?

 

[Famine]

It's just a theoretical exercise. You don't have to go and kill to prove your plan works.

Besides which, sharing your plan here means that other people already know about it...

 

[Wolfe]

I think I'll give this a crack...

*Columbo-esque crime*

Pretty solid, and you're on the right track, but here are the flaws I noticed, in chronological order:

1. You're relying a bit too much on her actions.
2. When do you put on gloves in this whole process? Are you paying attention to what you're touching? (even if you clean the place)
3. **Most emergency exits trigger alarms of some kind.**
4. If the beach is shallow, how do you carry her out far enough to be hidden? What if the ropes break?
5. **You've left tire tracks in the sand and tracks of wet sand to the boardwalk, possibly leading to an underwater search and the discovery of the Camry which is -- surprise surprise -- registered under your name.**
6. **A connection between you and your victim would be drawn pretty quickly when you're found driving her car.**

 

[Casio]

First of all. I wouldn't do it in a residential area, too many opportunities to be been seen. Which is why, I'm going to a beach area.

At about 10/11 pm, I'd start digging a hole while the tide is low, to put the body in, I'd cover it with a section of ply 2 foot x 2 foot and put about 2" of sand on top of the ply.

I'd stay at the beach still the early morning '3am/4am', a beach that's at the bottom of a hill, with some foliage on the hill, to make sure no one that's driving/walking on the top can see me down the bottom. It also has to be a position someway away from a pier, so fisherman can't see/hear me.

People seem to take walks on the beach in the early hours of the morning (I have no idea why), I'd wait until I have a target with no other people on the beach, the target can also not be walking a dog, cat, or holding any type of large equipment (Surfboard, metal detector, etc).

I'll hide in the bushes at the back, dressed in camouflaged gear. However, I will only wear socks, not boots or bare feet. As this would leave too much of a trail. Gloves are worn.

When the time is right, I do a quick final look out, then come up slowly behind my target, slowly, preferably near the top of the beach where there are less shells to make noise. Silently, I will come up behind and stab my target in the back of the neck with a sharp hunting knife (Like Rambo's), as the jugular vien will cause too much blood.

Instantly I will tape the wound shut, to stop blood spraying all over the beach. I would uncover my ply-covered hole, and put the body in there. I would then break the ply into 4 pieces, and place them on the sides on the hole. Then I would fill the hole with sand, completely, the body about 1 1/2 feet under the sand. Leave the scene And let the tide run over it during the day.

It's that simple folks.

 

[daan]

Oooookay! Why are Comet sponsoring a search like that?

Do they want to sell you a freezer to keep the dead body in? An electric knife to cut the body up? An oven to....