A race story from hell (GT sport penalty system is ridiculous)

[s1mple]

I've never seen anything this abysmal and ridiculous since bought game around last November.

This actual case happened last week but I wanted to make this post since I haven't touch the game since incident and wanted to know if anyone else has had similar experience (also to let out some steam ).

So this whole thing happened in last weeks GR 4. race at Tokyo Expressway - Central Outer Loop. I started race from 2nd place and was catching race leader as he got a bad start. I crashed to him as he brake tested me in first corner when I was really near his tail, as an result we both spun and lost couple places. I dropped few more places than the guy who had the pole position and after few overtakes I was again behind the guy we crashed with.

At this point this case got to whole new dimensions as this guy just dropped behind me and started to follow me. Also, I knew he was on to something... And was right. This guy followed me in slipstream and started to bump me carefully from the behind.

We were still at decent position so I didn't want to drop behind or even quit the race. The problem here was that we were almost equally skilled what comes to speed, he was much more experienced and would say a bit better/faster driver than me, as checked stats from kudosprime. Also, I couldn't elude him because I lost speed at every bump and he could catch me easily because of the slipstream without any intention to take overtake as he just followed me and kept bumping my tail carefully.

I was really frustrated because of constant loss in DR and also got 1 sec penalty once a while. So I slowed down the pace considerably as I thought he would't like lose anymore places but I was wrong - he didn't care anything else than just to ruin my race as bad he could. In a hindsight I should've just quit the race earlier but I wanted to see how the game penalty system handles case like this.

Well at the end of race I got demoted from SR S (just got my rating again back to 99 before this race) to SR C (almost to D) and this douche didn't even lose any SR as he had the white S in the end results. Both ofc lost bunch of DR as we were almost last ones to finish.

So this post got bit bloated, sorry for that. I would be glad to hear if here is someone who's had similar experiences. I would also state that if PD's penalty system is so flawed, they shouldn't put these really narrow street courses as this whole incident would have been easy to avoid some normal track with safety areas. Also races in these kinds of tracks are many times just pure carnage and far from real racing comparing to races on "normal tracks".

 

[VBR]

With so many threads about the less than ideal penalty system, I think it's about time we got a brand new dedicated subforum to put them all in.

 

[s1mple]

Amen for that, PD is on right path with their rating and penalty system but it's really far from optimal. I'm not even sure if I wan't to play online any more as I have lost days / weeks (with my playtimes) work in 2 separate incidents - just because of bad game design in their end.

 

[Steer]

So you ran into the back of him and it is his fault. And he ran into the back of you and its his fault.

 

[Jay Matthews]

So you ran into the back of him and it is his fault.

Yes. If the other guy hadn't brake-tested him (assuming that was in fact the case), s1mple wouldn't have run into the back of him.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Yeah not the best track to moan about penalties. Tokyo central (like the rest of them) is a penalty magnet. My stock answer is forget sport mode and do league racing instead, much cleaner racing.

 

[Riptide]

Like most things in life, you either find better ways to avoid problems like these or you find better ways to deal with them. Playing cat and mouse with a "rammer" is certainly not one of them.

PS F4H Super GT has a great video on You Tube on how to deal with or avoid people like those you have described.

 

[s1mple]

Yes. If the other guy hadn't brake-tested him (assuming that was in fact the case), s1mple wouldn't have run into the back of him.

I don't think that he did it on purpose (maybe hesitated after the bad start) though. Even if he did, I probably should've taken the 1st corner with more caution as my start was pretty good and rest of the field qualifying times were 0.600+ to us. I didn't even say anywhere that it was his fault, just described where the things got started. Also, I'm willing to take responsibility as well because we spun due to incident and lost couple places.

Anyway the whole point was that after the incident he just used my slipstream to gently bump me on purpose (10-20 times) the rest of the race without even ever trying to overtake. He didn't got any penalty or decrease in SR and I got demoted from SR S to C.

Yeah not the best track to moan about penalties. Tokyo central (like the rest of them) is a penalty magnet. My stock answer is forget sport mode and do league racing instead, much cleaner racing.

Yes that's true. There's no chance he could've perform those bumps on a normal track with safety areas. As league racing do mean the campaign vs AI?

 

[Crazy Taylor]

Yes that's true. There's no chance he could've perform those bumps on a normal track with safety areas. As league racing do mean the campaign vs AI?

No, actual organised leagues run by people. You also meet like minded people who are similar to oneself.

 

[I-Runner]

Yeah not the best track to moan about penalties. Tokyo central (like the rest of them) is a penalty magnet. My stock answer is forget sport mode and do league racing instead, much cleaner racing.

MY answer, instead, is avoid tokyo central loop in sport mode with every car over N200 ... and with every race car category too.

RT

 

[kilesa4568]

By the sound of it, they knew what they were doing with the bump draft SR down warnings and exploited them against the OP.

It makes no sense to constantly punish the leading driver with them.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I seriously doubt he brake checked you OP. It sounds like you were drafting into him and you didn't move your brake zone back. If you're going faster than the lead car and you both use the same braking point, you are going to ram him.

As for the rest of the post, yeah the system is broken. It's a huge issue that makes bump drafting useless on the oval tracks. They really need to fix it.

 

[Voodoovaj]

In the words of Monty Python, Let's not get bogged down with oo did what to oo!!

The point is that the system is what it is. I actually think the "system" itself it fine, HOWEVER, the current implementation and rules in the system are some of the worst so far. It was better when it was more strict.

The Good:
I like that you can have light side to side contact without taking a penalty.
It is pretty good at giving out penalties for putting someone into a wall or off track.

The BAD
The actual penalties!!!

Brake testing someone should be penalized. However, it should not be a penalty in a braking zone and the person ahead should not lose SR for every tap, especially when no brake is being applied. If someone tries a brake test in a braking zone, it's likely going to end badly for them, so it discourages itself.

Penalty (lack of) severity is a MAJOR issue. Since the penalties are so minor, they do nothing to deter the behaviour they are meant to deter and they exacerbate the issue of being wrongfully penalized. In short, if someone doesn't stick their car where it shouldn't be, they wouldn't be knocked off track and the wrongful penalty wouldn't occur.

I was not a proponent of the harsh penalty scenario when we had it, but boy did I perform well when we had it. I was patient enough to stay on the good side of the system and I benefited from people having to serve their penalties.

My Two Cents
IMHO, we need the 10 second penalties back. I would even go so far as to say that they should be 15 second penalties. Something needs to happen to curb the aggression which, at the moment, is getting worse. Make the penalty time be absolute rather than track position based. If someone gets 10 seconds, it should be 10 seconds of NO THROTTLE application not 10 seconds that can be burned off in 5 seconds or less.

Lastly, bring the FIA penalty zones to Sport Mode and force people to serve their penalties ASAP.

It's far too common that people are ruining the races for others, then scampering off to a win or podium. There may as well be no penalties at all at the moment.

 

[s1mple]

actual organised leagues run by people. You also meet like minded people who are similar to oneself.

This sounds really interesting. Is there somewhere in the interwebs some good info about this and is there some requirements to take part in?

By the sound of it, they knew what they were doing with the bump draft SR down warnings and exploited them against the OP.

It makes no sense to constantly punish the leading driver with them.

Yes, this was exactly the thing he made. I'm just a bit shocked that I ran to this first time after 300+ races and in SR S class.

 

[VBR]

@s1mple - By the way, welcome to GT Planet!

 

[Crazy Taylor]

This sounds really interesting. Is there somewhere in the interwebs some good info about this and is there some requirements to take part in?

Firstly check out GTP online leagues section

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/gts-online-racing-leagues.427/

Also there are other leagues that are run using Discord app (the online gamer chat app), like our own league. Depending on where ou live, there's always something for everyone.

 

[s1mple]

@s1mple - By the way, welcome to GT Planet!

Thank you VBR! This community seems really nice as is the whole GT Sport generally speaking

Firstly check out GTP online leagues section

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/gts-online-racing-leagues.427/

Also there are other leagues that are run using Discord app (the online gamer chat app), like our own league. Depending on where ou live, there's always something for everyone.

Thank you m8 for the tips! I will have to check these league races out.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I'm all for the leagues, but the leagues do not have rating support and, like it or not, that rating is meaningful to a lot of players. None the less, it's a digression. Playing in leagues doesn't change the fact that the penalty system needs to be addressed.

 

[O604]

Honestly your story doesn't sound that bad. It sounds like a lot of others story in the Daily Race thread.

Penalty system isn't perfect but it's generally functional. Don't blame the law, blame the law breakers.

 

[Groundfish]

I see many threads where people go from maybe b to d sr in a single race!
It’s ALWAYS the systems fault or the fault of others

Take responsibility.

 

[watto79]

Lastly, bring the FIA penalty zones to Sport Mode and force people to serve their penalties ASAP.

I 100% agree with this. They would make a big difference. PD said on 1st November they were coming to daily races in the future, so just hope that's not too far away.

There may as well be no penalties at all at the moment.

100% disagree with this! The penalty system is flawed for sure and if you come across someone who knows how to and is willing to game and exploit the system there is very little you can do about it. However that is rare to find and no penalty system at all would be horrendous. Just watch a Forza video to see what that would be like.

 

[s1mple]

I seriously doubt he brake checked you OP. It sounds like you were drafting into him and you didn't move your brake zone back. If you're going faster than the lead car and you both use the same braking point, you are going to ram him.

As for the rest of the post, yeah the system is broken. It's a huge issue that makes bump drafting useless on the oval tracks. They really need to fix it.

If he didn't brake check me then it must have been an accident. We both were driving 4C and there is really no need to brake heavy without mistake (even less on the 1st lap when you don't have as much speed than following laps) before the first corner, just a small tap is enough - at least with that car when going on the proper racing line.

So yeah, I did not really expect him to go so heavy on brakes on the first lap, and accidentally crashed to his tail.

I think the penalty system is generally good but this bump drafting was a new term to me even after 300+ races and seems to be broken asf if it's that easy to exploit. Just a shame to see someone to behave like this at any level but at S..

I see many threads where people go from maybe b to d sr in a single race!
It’s ALWAYS the systems fault or the fault of others

Take responsibility.

Well it seems you didn't read the post/thread and just wanted to comment because you don't like to see these general "whining posts". As I said earlier "Also, I'm willing to take responsibility as well because we spun due to incident and lost couple places."

 

[Groundfish]

So this post got bit bloated, sorry for that. I would be glad to hear if here is someone who's had similar experiences. I would also state that if PD's penalty system is so flawed, they shouldn't put these really narrow street courses as this whole incident would have been easy to avoid some normal track with safety areas. Also races in these kinds of tracks are many times just pure carnage and far from real racing comparing to races on "normal tracks".

So it’s the games fault that you entered the race?
It’s the games fault you kept battling with a guy where you were getting sr down arrows due to contact?
It’s the games fault?
Tbh I cannot imagine how much contact it takes to drop that much sr in one race.
I’d like to see a replay.
My advice is that if you want clean racing you might have to accept being overtaken sometimes.
Further, if you are battling with repeated contact and or penalties maybe back off and keep sr for another race.
Going down that much sr is 100 percent your own fault.
You probably got mad and kept blocking so he retaliated and schooled you.
Without a replay it’s hard to say though.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

If he didn't brake check me then it must have been an accident. We both were driving 4C and there is really no need to brake heavy without mistake (even less on the 1st lap when you don't have as much speed than following laps) before the first corner, just a small tap is enough - at least with that car when going on the proper racing line.

True. I guess it's an honest accident then. I can see, if he missed his turn in (on turn 1) why he would have to brake before turning late in order to stay off of the wall. If he popped his brakes during the first few blinks of the brake indicator then it may have been intentional but we'd have to see his footage to determine that.

 

[s1mple]

So it’s the games fault that you entered the race?
It’s the games fault you kept battling with a guy where you were getting sr down arrows due to contact?
It’s the games fault?
Tbh I cannot imagine how much contact it takes to drop that much sr in one race.
I’d like to see a replay.
My advice is that if you want clean racing you might have to accept being overtaken sometimes.
Further, if you are battling with repeated contact and or penalties maybe back off and keep sr for another race.
Going down that much sr is 100 percent your own fault.
You probably got mad and kept blocking so he retaliated and schooled you.
Without a replay it’s hard to say though.

So, you really didn't read the post.

I have never said that it is games fault that entered the race. Ofc it is my fault, I just wanted to try couple races as I got pretty good qualifying time (around 1000 fastest) for me. Usually, I'm somewhere 2000-6000 depending on track/car etc.

Second, I never tried to battle with the guy because it was so clear that what was he doing. If you read the post there is clearly stated that he dropped 1 position just to get behind me so he can "bump draft" me whole race.

I couldn't do anything because he could gently bump me = I lose speed and because of slipstream, he could basically continue this forever because there isn't safe areas like in normal track so I couldn't avoid it.

After I got multiple SR decrease warnings and couple 1-sec penalties I basically gave up and slowed my pace to let everyone through and hoped that he would just stop but no. He just slows down so he can keep behind me. it was pretty clear that he didn't have any intentions to overtake me at any point.

I haven't seen anything this disgraceful at any level or even any other racing game. After the race was finished he laughed me at the finishing screen that he got me demoted to C and he didn't get even a single point decrease in SR. And he wasn't bad driver, over 250+ wins around + 1000 races.

I think the penalty system is generally good (and is a must) as well but I didn't have a clue that you can exploit the system (bump drafting, heard first time from @kilesa4568) that badly. So in that sense, it is broke asf.

 

[Groundfish]

So, you really didn't read the post.

I have never said that it is games fault that entered the race. Ofc it is my fault, I just wanted to try couple races as I got pretty good qualifying time (around 1000 fastest) for me. Usually, I'm somewhere 2000-6000 depending on track/car etc.

Second, I never tried to battle with the guy because it was so clear that what was he doing. If you read the post there is clearly stated that he dropped 1 position just to get behind me so he can "bump draft" me whole race.

I couldn't do anything because he could gently bump me = I lose speed and because of slipstream, he could basically continue this forever because there isn't safe areas like in normal track so I couldn't avoid it.

After I got multiple SR decrease warnings and couple 1-sec penalties I basically gave up and slowed my pace to let everyone through and hoped that he would just stop but no. He just slows down so he can keep behind me. it was pretty clear that he didn't have any intentions to overtake me at any point.

I haven't seen anything this disgraceful at any level or even any other racing game. After the race was finished he laughed me at the finishing screen that he got me demoted to C and he didn't get even a single point decrease in SR. And he wasn't bad driver, over 250+ wins around + 1000 races.

Do you have a replay?

 

[s1mple]

Do you have a replay?

Nope. I would've linked it here. But I have messages after the race as I sent him a pm.

 

[kilesa4568]

Yes, this was exactly the thing he made. I'm just a bit shocked that I ran to this first time after 300+ races and in SR S class.

PD are cracking a nut with a sledgehammer with these bumped SR downs and 99.99% are given to people through no fault of their own. This is the first time I've seen someone knowingly exploiting it.

We're not all pond scum who're willing to exploit it though so don't let it put you off sport mode.

 

[Voodoovaj]

100% disagree with this! The penalty system is flawed for sure and if you come across someone who knows how to and is willing to game and exploit the system there is very little you can do about it. However that is rare to find and no penalty system at all would be horrendous. Just watch a Forza video to see what that would be like.

Yes, it was a bit of hyberbole, but the aggression I am seeing lately seems to be increasing. As the competition grows closer, more people are making lunges for position, often where they shouldn't and without care for the outcome.

I'm more than a little fed up over it. Several times this week I was run off course, and I would see 3, 4, and 5 second penalties handed out. Those folks still managed to finish ahead of me because the penalties do not take the traffic into consideration. Not only do I have to catch people to regain a position, I have to pass them, which can take time to set up.

I cut the Bathurst dipper close enough to get a penalty, which, let's face it, isn't THAT far from being on track. I got over 3 seconds penalty for that. I would be better off just running the person in front of me off track.

Even with the FIA zones in place, a penalized person would often be further ahead at the end than the victim.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

So it’s the games fault that you entered the race?
It’s the games fault you kept battling with a guy where you were getting sr down arrows due to contact?
It’s the games fault?
Tbh I cannot imagine how much contact it takes to drop that much sr in one race.
I’d like to see a replay.
My advice is that if you want clean racing you might have to accept being overtaken sometimes.
Further, if you are battling with repeated contact and or penalties maybe back off and keep sr for another race.
Going down that much sr is 100 percent your own fault.
You probably got mad and kept blocking so he retaliated and schooled you.
Without a replay it’s hard to say though.

It only takes 3 contacts to lose 30 SR in one race. Someone tagging you and then the wall, for which you get a penalty, costs you around 10 SR.
I had 17 SR loss from one such contact and a disconnect halfway through the race (which is -5, so -12 for that)