A race story from hell (GT sport penalty system is ridiculous)

[Groundfish]

Well, I suppose anything’s possible.
I will leave it alone.

 

[praiano63]

In my basic understanding , this could work a lot better , and it seems easy to apply , at least in my humble opinion.


Front and Rear collisions:

Out of the braking zone : car from the rear is always guilty except when the front car show a deceleration above 0,2G compared to the follower (Just a guess about the % of Gforce).This during a period of time of one second before the impact

Inside the braking zone till apex: car from the rear is always guilty.

Lateral collisions:

In a straight line: Across all the lenght of the vehicule. The car with more lateral G force measured since one second before the impact will receive the penalty. The amount of G force detected at this moment have to be evaluated , enough to create an inertia that can perturbe the line of the other car.

In a turn : The car from the inside is guilty if collide the exterior car from the rear end of this car , till the front wheel of this same exterior car.The amount of G force detected at this moment have to be evaluated , enough to create an inertia that can perturbe the line of the other car.
The exterior car have to avoid the colision when the rear end of the inner car is at his front wheel level. If there is a colision in this condition , the inner car can't be penalized.

 

[Voodoovaj]

@Groundfish This is what I am talking about and it's complete BS

First I get bumped from behind, then I get turned into, then (because I am paying attention) I slow to let the crashing car slide past. Who get's the 5 second penalty for all this? That's right, I do!



Blue Nissan should have had a penalty for knocking off the Lexus. The Lexus should have tried a pass somewhere else, as should the Nissan. The only reason he passed my on the outside was because I slowed.

This is the kind of recklessness that I am seeing with FAR too much frequency lately. It's not dirty so much as overly aggressive and reckless.


Bump drafting should take a back seat to penalties for following too close. A slightly knock should just be SR down as it is now, but it actually takes quite a knock to get a penalty and it should be easier to get 1 or 2 seconds of penalty. The person in front should get some more leniency.

 

[Groundfish]

@Voodoovaj
That part of that track with more than 2 cars close? Lol I love seeing that because I tend to pick up spots that way more so than being fast. If I screw up the exit onto Conrod I will pull out of the way. It’s terrible driving there. That’s what gets me. People like this pay no attention to anything in terms of the overall race. They just wanna fight for no reason over an unimportant area of the track.
Interesting that the Nissan struck the Lexus and the Lexus went off track but no penalty was given. Again that shows we don’t really know when a penalty will happen.
I’ve run 2 so far this week there. One there was behavior like that. The other was great. I’ll enter up here soon and try again.
I agree though that’s the kinda crap no one wants, I wonder if this trend of multiple accounts is leading towards reckless driving?
I’ve decided no alt account. I’ll race, do my best to compete and have fun, and end up where I end up.
The way I view it, I play from the sr perspective. If I am not confident enough to go in country and be somewhat safe then I shouldn’t be racing anyway.
I sure don’t mind being a filler towards the grid bottom in a high sr room, because from my experience that’s a better option than lower sr which is total crapshoot.
I have to believe racing on an alt account if widespread could lead to this, because who cares right?
I’ve only done a couple this week, and I didn’t race the crap combos last week, so I can’t speak to the trend.
What’s my point?
My point is that no automated penalty system is gonna be right always, therefore, do as you and I do and race clean as much as possible. Like, that case there, you got screwed because of others, it happens but shouldn’t be the norm. The benefit of racing clean, is you can take a hit here and there or a pen, and it really doesn’t change the experience like getting dropped to say b sr. I dropped to b sr once and it was chaotic.
I just dodged and farmed to get away from that.
The only answer is to keep matters out of the pen system algorithms hands as much as possible.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I disagree. We all moaned when things were strict, and some even stopped playing, but things got cleaner. Now, there are a lot of people playing. I see plenty of new names on a regular basis, however the aggression level is rising.

The last FIA race I was in at Brands Hatch was a horror. All A's and A+ drivers, some of the best, and it was a penalty fest.

In real life, there is the risk of race ending damage. We don't have that level of catastrophic damage to end someone's race, so we need the penalties to be a threat at the very least. Even if the algorithm remains the same, more harsh penalties will get people to behave themselves within a couple weeks.

 

[Groundfish]

I’m not sure you read me right. I am all for the most strict most damage etc. I mean you seem to race more, you’re faster, you have more experience so you know what’s going on a bit better online.
I’m for stricter and more serious pens all the way.

 

[kilesa4568]

The tough penalties didn't work for close racing with all the innocuous little bumps getting 5 and 10 second penalties. I loved racing under them but I love watching top split racing too and it seemed to hit them a lot harder. Close, hard racing turned into passive processions and seriously boring to watch.

PD need to get over their fixation with sport mode's <10 minute sprints and the daft 20 minute endurance (another sprint with tyre and fuel wear...) races. Doubling up on laps will give people time to settle in and a chance to watch and learn how other drivers race before they attempt a pass. As it is now, it's far too gung ho with the limited race time. Try quality over quantity for a while.

 

[Brzlav]

Out of the braking zone : car from the rear is always guilty except when the front car show a deceleration above 0,2G compared to the follower (Just a guess about the % of Gforce).This during a period of time of one second before the impact

Inside the braking zone till apex: car from the rear is always guilty.

Good ideas, but we're talking about a developer that has a hard time defining track limits, so I wouldn't trust them with defining braking zones.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

I think that is why I hate doing sport mode. A fair number will bump and scrape you to get past you (especially in race B). I will always champion lobbies and league racing over sport mode because of things like this.

Racing people regularly, you get to know their habits like when they brake and how they take lines and so on. There's also a lot more trust that they will race fairer and cleaner.

 

[CRN_G-TR]

Staying really close behind a car in the braking zone is not the smartest thing you can do in GT Sport there is something called Netcode/lag some think its braketesting, its hard to react to a Car suddenly braking when Upclose to the Bumper and not everyone has the same/consistent brakingpoints , you Hit him he retaliated, bit dirty tho how he kept bumping you resulting in SR down, its better to go check what you can change on your driving to avoid contact, pointing fingers wont help cause PD is not punishing people for their actions.

 

[Voodoovaj]

The tough penalties didn't work for close racing with all the innocuous little bumps getting 5 and 10 second penalties. I loved racing under them but I love watching top split racing too and it seemed to hit them a lot harder. Close, hard racing turned into passive processions and seriously boring to watch.

It doesn't need to be either/or. We can retain the current contact level tolerance, but increase the threat level. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be contact, but everyone needs to have a healthy respect for the risk factor. As it is now, no one cares enough to avoid contact. Although I would make it equal, which it currently isn't. As it is now, if you breath on someone before the go off track, you get a penalty. The off track penalty needs to be a heavy contact penalty only.

Good ideas, but we're talking about a developer that has a hard time defining track limits, so I wouldn't trust them with defining braking zones.

Not true. Earlier iterations of the driving line would change colour based on your inputs relative to the location of the track. If you needed to apply throttle in an acceleration zone, you would get the green colour. If you were supposed to be braking, you would get red. It would even turn green if you were going too slow in a corner.

I have said this from the start. If that driving line function can be used to give context to the penalty system. It would be better. If they are doing that now, and it doesn't seem that they are, then they need to do a better job of utilizing that function. Take it out of mothballs and reapply it.

On the point about track limits, more often than not, they are following the acceptable limits found in real life. The difference is that, in real life, you get warnings for repeatedly exceeding limits and each time a limit is exceeded, there is a steward to determine if it was justified or not.

 

[Groundfish]

Staying really close behind a car in the braking zone is not the smartest thing you can do in GT Sport there is something called Netcode/lag some think its braketesting, its hard to react to a Car suddenly braking when Upclose to the Bumper and not everyone has the same/consistent brakingpoints , you Hit him he retaliated, bit dirty tho how he kept bumping you resulting in SR down, its better to go check what you can change on your driving to avoid contact, pointing fingers wont help cause PD is not punishing people for their actions.

From what I’ve seen, it’s not lag. From what I’ve seen it’s players who get on your bumper and have absolute trust in YOUR LINE with no regard or concern for passing by getting a run. Did you ever watch the screen saver in gt sport?
The only reason to be on a persons bumper is being mid overtake attempt.
I think some players take a NASCAR approach to road racing. In that case it’s always best to run a tight line.
I think also @Voodoovaj was right about certain players who are really blindingly fast for qualifying but kinda stink at racing. Racing is a different deal. I think a lot of players...if they get out of their qualifying rhythm become quite vulnerable.

 

[nuu1212]

Unless we file a class action law suit, probably nothing will happen at this front.

 

[Brzlav]

On the point about track limits, more often than not, they are following the acceptable limits found in real life.

There have been absolutely outrageous limits that weren't fixed fast (A1 Ring for example). I am not advocating using a strict "white line" rule, but they implemented some track limits that were absolutely bonkers.
Another example, take Le Mans, in the first iteration, the limits were fare too strict and now they aren't strict enough. On most corners where track limits play a role, neither the first, nor the second iteration of track limits suggest that the people working on it have seen a single lap of one of the latest Le Mans races.

Not true. Earlier iterations of the driving line would change colour based on your inputs relative to the location of the track.

A system like that works for new drivers that are learning a track. It doesn't work for fast drivers.

 

[Voodoovaj]

There have been absolutely outrageous limits that weren't fixed fast (A1 Ring for example). I am not advocating using a strict "white line" rule, but they implemented some track limits that were absolutely bonkers.
Another example, take Le Mans, in the first iteration, the limits were fare too strict and now they aren't strict enough. On most corners where track limits play a role, neither the first, nor the second iteration of track limits suggest that the people working on it have seen a single lap of one of the latest Le Mans races.

They may be using a 2D mask to delineate between on track and off track. The resolution of the map makes a big difference. If it's a low resolution, a single pixel can be more than a meter wide, making those finer points difficult to determine. Or, it could be a spline.

The point is that it is completely irrelevant in regards to the penalty system. They are not only different systems, but different approaches to a system as well.

A system like that works for new drivers that are learning a track. It doesn't work for fast drivers.

Of course it does. As I said, it's contextual. The difference between an advanced driver and a less advanced driver, in terms of where actions occur, is almost zero. A B level driver may brake earlier, but they are braking in braking zones. They may accelerate later, but they accelerate in acceleration zones.

The person behind is responsible for the safe pass. If you coming up on a slower driver, then use caution. That's a normal approach. The penalty system will never work between an A+ driver and an E driver, but it's not intended to.

Right now, slower versus faster isn't the issue. It's an issue of over aggression and irreverence.

 

[NevilleNobody]

I see many threads where people go from maybe b to d sr in a single race!
It’s ALWAYS the systems fault or the fault of others

Take responsibility.

To be fair, IMHO SR is far too volatile and should see much slower gains and losses. On monday night i literally made one mistake and hit a guy, but was hit three times by drivers trying to pass through reid park, i mean there isn't even a second line there to pass for god's sake so nowhere i could go to let them through, and i was reset.

One race shouldn't burn you so badly if you have a bank of 500+ races to work with.

The increased aggression people are seeing is a result of the rear ending penalties, i realise some people brake tested but to me it's the FAR LESS of two evils to go back to no penalty if hit from behind, it's just insane. Guys are barrelling in because unless they push you off the road they get the same or lower penalty for hitting you than you do for being hit.

on tracks that are all about exits, NGP, bathurst etc, it's chronic, guys just nerf you all the time.

 

[abrahamx]

I've never seen anything this abysmal and ridiculous since bought game around last November.

This actual case happened last week but I wanted to make this post since I haven't touch the game since incident and wanted to know if anyone else has had similar experience (also to let out some steam ).

So this whole thing happened in last weeks GR 4. race at Tokyo Expressway - Central Outer Loop. I started race from 2nd place and was catching race leader as he got a bad start. I crashed to him as he brake tested me in first corner when I was really near his tail, as an result we both spun and lost couple places. I dropped few more places than the guy who had the pole position and after few overtakes I was again behind the guy we crashed with.

At this point this case got to whole new dimensions as this guy just dropped behind me and started to follow me. Also, I knew he was on to something... And was right. This guy followed me in slipstream and started to bump me carefully from the behind.

We were still at decent position so I didn't want to drop behind or even quit the race. The problem here was that we were almost equally skilled what comes to speed, he was much more experienced and would say a bit better/faster driver than me, as checked stats from kudosprime. Also, I couldn't elude him because I lost speed at every bump and he could catch me easily because of the slipstream without any intention to take overtake as he just followed me and kept bumping my tail carefully.

I was really frustrated because of constant loss in DR and also got 1 sec penalty once a while. So I slowed down the pace considerably as I thought he would't like lose anymore places but I was wrong - he didn't care anything else than just to ruin my race as bad he could. In a hindsight I should've just quit the race earlier but I wanted to see how the game penalty system handles case like this.

Well at the end of race I got demoted from SR S (just got my rating again back to 99 before this race) to SR C (almost to D) and this douche didn't even lose any SR as he had the white S in the end results. Both ofc lost bunch of DR as we were almost last ones to finish.

So this post got bit bloated, sorry for that. I would be glad to hear if here is someone who's had similar experiences. I would also state that if PD's penalty system is so flawed, they shouldn't put these really narrow street courses as this whole incident would have been easy to avoid some normal track with safety areas. Also races in these kinds of tracks are many times just pure carnage and far from real racing comparing to races on "normal tracks".

Im running out of cry towels.