A thought on the "War on Terror."

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The big problem with the war on terror, as wars go, is that there is no one country with a defined border we can go annihilate, declare victory, and relax again. Terror, as an entity against which we have declared war, spans the globe and is disguised. In my opinion, it can't be won, and the American administration knows it; it is, in the context of all of our lifetimes, a new, permanent fixture.

So that got me thinking about Iraq. The American administration has essentially equated Iraq with terror. Of course there were all the other reasons for going over there, and whether they have been accomplished or whether they are valid is irrelevant to my point.

Terror has increased since the Occupation of Iraq. Hardly a day goes by anymore without hearing about bombs in Iraq, and even Saudi Arabia. But we Americans are still safe and snug with no terror since September the Eleventh. I couldn't help wondering if this may not have been precisely the reason Iraq was attacked. Could it be that the American administration (not Bush himself; he is merely a mascot for the real players), while denying that the Iraqi war would exacerbate terrorism, knew full well that it would, and in attacking them aimed the gun of terror away from America and at the Middle East? Could it be that in their possibly intentional exacerbation of terrorism, the American administration has knowingly attempted to give the war on terror a country, a border (or at least an area), a place to focus, because without it they would've floundered? Could it be that the rash of attacks in Iraq were an expected symptom of a rooting-out, as it were, of terrorists? Is the rebuilding of Iraq merely a side effect of the real purpose, a terror concentration in Iraq where the US can implement the full force of it's intelligence and millitary powers to fight it, where they otherwise would not have been able to, in other words, a ruse? In Iraq the US can pretty much do what they want. Not so anywhere else. So antagonize terrorists into coming to Iraq where only the laws of war apply and they can get 'em good.

The situation in Iraq seems to be getting worse all the time. Was it supposed to? Is it part of the plan?
 
Mile, i agree...

the point about defining terror and equating it with the country of Iraq in order to contain it and give people a focus on which to blame all things 'terror' is something i never thought about before as a deliberate strategy....it sound like you may be right....who can fight a foe that is all around us?....hit them at thier home and expliot the muslims sense of one-ness by making them flock home to defend ther nation and culture...

i think however that inventing the home of terror as Iraq may have longer term problems for the US,

terror cannot be stamped out, the Bush admin will have to understand that....it is with us always just as you suggested so when the troops exit Iraq and the terrorism starts up again abroad, what will we do then? because lets face it, it will be naive of us to think that by subduing Iraq, terror attacks will stop...

once the US soldiers leave, the Iraqis wont feel gratitude to the americans even though they will have liberated the country....its impossible to feel that way becasue of the nature of the attacking force that the US used...so i think terror will continue, maybe not right away but the hatred remains, stronger now than ever and it will surface when we're least expecting it....
 
Milefile, I was thinking the same exact thing a few weeks ago.

The Iraq war and subsequent occupation achieves one important goal: to take the focus away from the States and place it directly back in the Mid-East. It gives terrorists an obvious location to concentrate their efforts. Why attack Americans half way around the world, when you can attack them in your own backyard?

In a way, it is quite clever. It makes an asymetrical war slightly less so, because it provides a traditional (military) target for terrorists that is impossibly tempting. I'm convinced this is the administration's rationale: every truck bomb that goes off in Baghdad is one that doesn't go off in Times Sqaure.

I'm also sure that the general public will never know just how effective or in-effective this strategy is... That is until there's another attack here in the States.


///M-Spec
 
The situation in Iraq seems to be getting worse all the time. Was it supposed to? Is it part of the plan?

Bush has said from the very beginning.. "take the fight to them."
 
Originally posted by milefile
The big problem with the war on terror, as wars go, is that there is no one country with a defined border we can go annihilate, declare victory, and relax again. Terror, as an entity against which we have declared war, spans the globe and is disguised.

I think the terrorist-harbouring nations are even safer now that the Iraq war has gone so badly - President Bush would never try anything like it again, pretty much regardless of what happens in the world.
 
bill mahr may have been a bit crude in saying it, but he did bring up a point when he said
We have been the cowards, lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building -- say what you want about it, it's not cowardly.

but ya, they ARE diverting everybody's attention to the middle east...the other benefit to staying there is that the terror attacks will give them a reason to STAY longer...kinda like isreal/palestine?

(on a side note, this loaner laptop has THE CRAPPIEST KEYBOARD EVER!!!! even after i change default settings, it reverts back...piece of ****)
 
The american people wanted results after 9/11,.. and as you said mile, you cant show results on a worldy scale, you have to attack a point of interest.

I used to think GW destroyed Iraq for his Daddy,.. but know I'm thinking your on to somthing.
 
bill mahr may have been a bit crude in saying it, but he did bring up a point when he said...

That's really stupid. I mean really stupid. I suppose it is courageous for insane idiots to go over Nigra in barrels. Is it courageous for people to blow their heads off? Is it courageous when someone robs a bank, or jumps off a building expecting to die? Is it courageous for someone who is completely out of their mind on drugs to lead the police in a car chase through crowded streets?

No, it's insane.

Is it cowardly to put an alarm in your home? Is it cowardly to obey the speed limit or buckle your seatbelt? Is it cowardly to avoid getting into a fight in a movie theater over someone's cell phone? Is it cowardly to shoot someone in the dark who is breaking into your house... someone who didn't know you were there, and had no chance to shoot back?

No, it's smart.
 
Originally posted by danoff
That's really stupid. I mean really stupid. I suppose it is courageous for insane idiots to go over Nigra in barrels. Is it courageous for people to blow their heads off? Is it courageous when someone robs a bank, or jumps off a building expecting to die? Is it courageous for someone who is completely out of their mind on drugs to lead the police in a car chase through crowded streets?

No, it's insane.

Is it cowardly to put an alarm in your home? Is it cowardly to obey the speed limit or buckle your seatbelt? Is it cowardly to avoid getting into a fight in a movie theater over someone's cell phone? Is it cowardly to shoot someone in the dark who is breaking into your house... someone who didn't know you were there, and had no chance to shoot back?

No, it's smart.

Good points. Terribly unrelated to even what you were replying to, but still.
 
Do I need to draw it in the sand for you?

The American soldiers are smart for using technology. The hijackers are insane for suiciding into buildings, killing thousands of innocent people, and believing that they will go to heaven for it.
 
It's called keeping the masses stupid. They pack the problem into a neat little box and sell it to us. Nothing has been solved, and as you say, the problem only seems to be getting worse now. But as long as the US is "safe", people will overlook the details.

People are frightened and confused by details. Thinking makes their heads hurt. So they believe any vaguely credible sounding explanation - as long as it's simple.

Control is so easy...
 
first...risingsun77...ur rite there.

Originally posted by danoff
Do I need to draw it in the sand for you?

The American soldiers are smart for using technology. The hijackers are insane for suiciding into buildings, killing thousands of innocent people, and believing that they will go to heaven for it.

i can bet you anything that more innocents have been killed by the high tech bombs than from the wtc attack. yes, it was terrible, but isn't what's being done to those people just as terrible? Dont call it liberating because as of yet, the new governments in those countries have yet to be fully implemented and proper help has yet to arrive. Think about it... Afghanistan isn't getting the full promised support, Iraq isn't being rebuilt at all, people there are still suffering, but when the states butted in, they bombed them to death. Villiages/towns/homes were all hit in the attacks because they were too stupid to verify what they were bombing. don't ya remember that iraqi kid that had both his arms blown off by AMERICAN bombs? just like jessica lynch, they overdid everything about him, sent HIM to great hospitals to get prosthetics and are using HIM as some sort of spokesperson there while everyone else that's been severely injured by the bombs hasn't recieved proper medical care...not to mention how nice it is by asking other countries to donate money for the repairs in iraq that bush promised that HE'D cover for...

smart for using technology? americans there got LOST when their gps recievers died from the jammers because they couldn't read the maps properly!!
 
What we all need to ask ourselves is:

"Why are we in Iraq?"

Were you being terrorized by saddam? Sure he's an asshole, but what did he do? To the best of my knowlege no links to al queda have been found. I would also like to point out that no weapons of mass destruction have been found!

So we invaded Iraq for.....? Yea. Thats right, nothing.
 
Originally posted by danoff
Do I need to draw it in the sand for you?

The American soldiers are smart for using technology. The hijackers are insane for suiciding into buildings, killing thousands of innocent people, and believing that they will go to heaven for it.

No, I got it, I just don't understand why you wasted your time typing out all sorts of examples when you could've just said what's written above.

So we invaded Iraq for.....? Yea. Thats right, nothing.

You're so smart!
 
Originally posted by emad

i can bet you anything that more innocents have been killed by the high tech bombs than from the wtc attack

Please show the #'s. Not just the # of people who died but the # of innocent ones that died from the "high tech bombs".



Dont call it liberating because as of yet, the new governments in those countries have yet to be fully implemented and proper help has yet to arrive.

I believe I just heard on the news last night that US is getting frustrated on how slow the Iraqi officials are moving on setting up a governing body.
Proper help? What type of help? You complain when we send help and you complain when we don't. Be specific on the type of help.



Iraq isn't being rebuilt at all, people there are still suffering,

Is this the type of help you are refering to? What is the biggest problem in the rebuilding effort? The constant attacks from Iraqi militants. Did you honestly think that Iraq was going to be rebuilt in months instead of years? It took 35 years to get it into the shape it is in today so why would you think it was going be rebuilt in such a short time? We are good but we aren't magic.


Villiages/towns/homes were all hit in the attacks because they were too stupid to verify what they were bombing

Verify what they were bombing? During a war situation what would you suggest we should do to verify what we were bombing? Call ahead and ask if they were the bad guys?
I'm not militarily savvy so I'm not sure what should have been done to verify the targets. Please enlighten me.

don't ya remember that iraqi kid that had both his arms blown off by AMERICAN bombs? just like jessica lynch, they overdid everything about him, sent HIM to great hospitals to get prosthetics and are using HIM as some sort of spokesperson there while everyone else that's been severely injured by the bombs hasn't recieved proper medical care.


Yes I do remember that kid. It was a terrible thing to happen to any child. Who is using him as a spokesman? The government or the media?

Don't you remember the thousands of bodies unearthed over there in the mass graves? That's who the Iraqis should be using for their spokesman. Not the terrorist they are allowing to stop the efforts and the "proper medical care" we are trying to provide.

...not to mention how nice it is by asking other countries to donate money for the repairs in iraq that bush promised that HE'D cover for...

The repairs he is asking other countries to help cover aren't just repairs to buildings that were destroyed by the war. They are repairs to the infrastructure due to years of neglect and abuse by the Sadaam dictatorship. So yes it is nice that he is asking for help from other countries. Also, unless I am mistaken(and I'm not) the US government recently approved billions to rebuild Iraq.
On another note..The "HE'D" you are talking about is in fact us. The American public. We are such an evil bunch aren't we?

smart for using technology? americans there got LOST when their gps recievers died from the jammers because they couldn't read the maps properly!!

I don't recall that happening more than a couple of times. Please be more specific. Was this happening throughout the entire war?
I must have missed something.
 
Originally posted by RVDNuT374
Except their oil.........:rolleyes:

Where the hell is all this oil I keep hearing about the US stealing? If we've stolen as much oil as people have hyped about, right now I'd be drinking oil using oil run electricity, taking a bath in oil, with thousands of gallons of oil in my backyard, which I use as a swimming pool because we stole so much oil.

I wonder if people realize Alaska has just as much, if not more, oil than Iraq does. I guess we'd get insulted for "invading Alaska for their oil" if we started drilling for it.
 
Originally posted by RVDNuT374
Except their oil.........:rolleyes:
Iraq's oil supply does not even cover half the bill to the American tax payer. It would have to be totally over-hauled and updated to make it the money maker that people think it is.
 
That is a damn good point, milefile.

It sort of contradicts itself. While it is not worth us losing all our young soldiers, it is worth seeing the Iraqis live a peaceful life. It's a hard issue to tackle. I only hope it gets done soon.
 
Originally posted by Ghost C
Where the hell is all this oil I keep hearing about the US stealing? If we've stolen as much oil as people have hyped about, right now I'd be drinking oil using oil run electricity, taking a bath in oil, with thousands of gallons of oil in my backyard, which I use as a swimming pool because we stole so much oil.

I wonder if people realize Alaska has just as much, if not more, oil than Iraq does. I guess we'd get insulted for "invading Alaska for their oil" if we started drilling for it.

The US gets less than 0.5% of all their oil from Iraq. RVDNuT374 likes to make idiotic, parroted statements without any facts. He does it on a consistent basis and has no real opinions of his own - he's only 12. Don't mind him.
 
What he fails to realise is the oil motivation was actually to try and 'stabilise' the area and therefore lessen the chance of any major upset on the price of oil from events in the region. The US may not get its oil there, but it is subject to price changes that the Middle East has a major influence on.
 
If we really wanted stable oil prices, would could sully a tiny portion of Alaska with a refinery. We could tell OPEC to take a long walk off a short pier.

You'd see some attitudes change in the Middle East real quick. :)
 
No, I got it, I just don't understand why you wasted your time typing out all sorts of examples when you could've just said what's written above.

I used all the examples so I could get it through to the thick brained mentality that wrote this:

i can bet you anything that more innocents have been killed by the high tech bombs than from the wtc attack. yes, it was terrible, but isn't what's being done to those people just as terrible? Dont call it liberating because as of yet, the new governments in those countries have yet to be fully implemented and proper help has yet to arrive. Think about it... Afghanistan isn't getting the full promised support, Iraq isn't being rebuilt at all, people there are still suffering, but when the states butted in, they bombed them to death. Villiages/towns/homes were all hit in the attacks because they were too stupid to verify what they were bombing. don't ya remember that iraqi kid that had both his arms blown off by AMERICAN bombs? just like jessica lynch, they overdid everything about him, sent HIM to great hospitals to get prosthetics and are using HIM as some sort of spokesperson there while everyone else that's been severely injured by the bombs hasn't recieved proper medical care...not to mention how nice it is by asking other countries to donate money for the repairs in iraq that bush promised that HE'D cover for...

smart for using technology? americans there got LOST when their gps recievers died from the jammers because they couldn't read the maps properly!!


This is amazing. How can someone write so much and think so little?
 
Except their oil.........

I'm going to assume you haven't seen the mountains of evidence and reasons to the contrary. Do yourself a favor and look into it a bit before you post.
 
Originally posted by milefile
The big problem with the war on terror, as wars go, is that there is no one country with a defined border we can go annihilate, declare victory, and relax again. Terror, as an entity against which we have declared war, spans the globe and is disguised. In my opinion, it can't be won, and the American administration knows it; it is, in the context of all of our lifetimes, a new, permanent fixture.

So that got me thinking about Iraq. The American administration has essentially equated Iraq with terror. Of course there were all the other reasons for going over there, and whether they have been accomplished or whether they are valid is irrelevant to my point.

Terror has increased since the Occupation of Iraq. Hardly a day goes by anymore without hearing about bombs in Iraq, and even Saudi Arabia. But we Americans are still safe and snug with no terror since September the Eleventh. I couldn't help wondering if this may not have been precisely the reason Iraq was attacked. Could it be that the American administration (not Bush himself; he is merely a mascot for the real players), while denying that the Iraqi war would exacerbate terrorism, knew full well that it would, and in attacking them aimed the gun of terror away from America and at the Middle East? Could it be that in their possibly intentional exacerbation of terrorism, the American administration has knowingly attempted to give the war on terror a country, a border (or at least an area), a place to focus, because without it they would've floundered? Could it be that the rash of attacks in Iraq were an expected symptom of a rooting-out, as it were, of terrorists? Is the rebuilding of Iraq merely a side effect of the real purpose, a terror concentration in Iraq where the US can implement the full force of it's intelligence and millitary powers to fight it, where they otherwise would not have been able to, in other words, a ruse? In Iraq the US can pretty much do what they want. Not so anywhere else. So antagonize terrorists into coming to Iraq where only the laws of war apply and they can get 'em good.

The situation in Iraq seems to be getting worse all the time. Was it supposed to? Is it part of the plan?


i agree mile, ever since they named this stupid war the, "WAR ON TERROR" . how can you win a war aginst an emotion? well i guess if you go and invade every county that harbors terrorists, install our puppet governments, and control them, THEN when we'ved conquored the world the war might be over.....that'll never happen. as far as to draw away the attention of the terrorist away from america, i say its only a matter of time untill we slip up again, we're humans, and we make mistakes, but yea, the situation is getting worse. more people are dying now then ever in iraq, and from what I've heard, it's only our soldiers, I've yet to hear the news mention deaths of our allies. I would really like to know where this war is heading to after iraq, if we ever leave there, and what happened to afghanistan? we still havent finished anything there....*sigh* I'm starting to ramble on so ill end it for now.
 
Originally posted by Mopar Muscle
What we all need to ask ourselves is:

"Why are we in Iraq?"

Were you being terrorized by saddam? Sure he's an asshole, but what did he do? To the best of my knowlege no links to al queda have been found. I would also like to point out that no weapons of mass destruction have been found!

So we invaded Iraq for.....? Yea. Thats right, nothing.
I have to disagree with you there Mopar.
Maybe we haven't found the weapons of Mass Destruction. That doesn't mean that they aren't there.
When you have only a few people looking and a lot of people running and hiding it's not easy to find what you're looking for.

Besides, you're assuming that Saddam has been forthcoming with truthful information. "Please leave us in peace we have no weapons that will harm you."

I bet your mom never found your hidden collection of "Playboys". Not just because you said you didn't have them. It's just that they were hidden better than she searched. Same situation, larger scale.

Saddam has had 40 years in power to develop a plan to keep people from finding his 'toys'. We've been looking for about 5 years.
Saddam may be so far out in left field that he's in the parking lot, but he is also a shrewd individual. You team up shrewd with insane, or a sociopathic personality and you have an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS person.
I believe that the only way were gonna find the WOMD is for someone to tell us where to look. Barring that we will be "chasing our tails" till kingdom come.
 
Originally posted by Gil
I bet your mom never found your hidden collection of "Playboys". Not just because you said you didn't have them. It's just that they were hidden better than she searched. Same situation, larger scale.

that's assuming that you actually HAVE playboys to hide from your mom who, for one incident or another from a long time ago, doesn't trust you anymore...

you don't know they're there, the US Govt. doesn't know whether or not they exist, the UN has said they have come to the conclusion that they don't exist. And Saddam has said multiple times they don't exist...So y must you automatically assume that they DO exist?

oh...has anybody found ANY statistics on the number of casualties on either side (civilian included)? i can't seem to find anything no matter where i look...
 
In the past Saddam has used his WOMD on his OWN peeps, to keep them afraid of him.
Do not assume that he has used them all because he said he has.
Heck, I have told people what they want to hear so they will go away and leave me alone.
 
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