AC Shnitzer builds TENSION

[eliseracer]

I would LOVE to see a EP3-R kicking your un-econobox in tight corners.

Btw, you have no right to judge a car if you HAVE NOT driven the car.

Dude. You don't understand why people always hate on Civics... For every decent tastefull Civic you see, there's always at least twenty stupidly ugly ones.

The Honda tuning "culture" created such a terrible image for themselves, now live with it.

 

[Crash]

Civics doesn't suck for what they were designed to be: economy cars that will get you from point A to point B, with the Type R ones letting you have some fun while at it. It's when people take that, and then put a ridiculously large spoilers and fart cans, then slap on buttloads of stickers that cover the whole entire car, along with other stuff, then drive around going, "Yoyo, look at me and my pimpin' ride, my car is so much better than all you cars out there." It is unfortunately, those people who create the stereotype that all Civics are modified and all their drivers as young "street racers". And remember, unfortunately, the society today focuses so much on the negative that people don't tend to notice if you do something positive, ie. not being obnoxious with their Civics. I highly respect the Civic as a reliable, relatively comfortable, cheap car that can be fun to drive. I even respect those who tastefully add under the hood parts, and recognize that just by adding an intake, it doesn't make the Civic the fastest car in the world. But I really do not, and I don't think I ever will, respect those Civics whose been highly modified looks-wise, and thinks that they are oh so fast, but actually did nothing to make the car really go faster.

*Edit* The above is not just for Civics alone, it applies to all the cars that the import scene have hyped and overrated about.

Back on topic: I really like the new M6, but the AC Schnitzer Tension is just hideously yellow.

 

[Onikaze]

Thats what we're saying, just with more words.

WE didn't make the Civic into a rolling spoof of itself, the Civic culture did.

As for the EP-3R cornering comment, if I had to find a sub 2 liter, sub 3000 lb, japanese car, I'd take a Miata any day, and it would corner with a Civic just fine.

Just with more potential for fun, hanging the tail out and all.

 

[NSX-R]

Don't blame on the civic, they didn't put decals on themselves, they didn't grow a big spoiler. They are all decent CARS, not sport cars, there are difference you know!

 

[Onikaze]

There is a difference...

There are differences...

Don't put blame on the...

Don't blame the...


Well, at least you recognize that Civics aren't Sports Cars...that counts for something, right?

 

[barryl85]

Ok, hows this.

If you aren't someones Mother, or a struggling College Kid wanting good mileage and reliability, then you driving a Civic, particularly one that has silly modifications done too it, sucks.

I don't give a damn if it does have 425 omgwtfbbqfwhp, it's still a Front Wheel Drive Econobox, and that isn't cool.

No im neither if those people and i love my Civic! So front wheel drive is crap eh??? Sure Pal!

 

[Onikaze]

Don't get me started on Wrong Wheel Drive.

The best thing you can do to a WWD Car, is convert it to an AWD Car, so it's at least Less Wrong.

You convert a Civic to AWD, then make it put out about 400 Hp, I'll admit that it is a cool Civic.

Better yet, turn the engine the right way and run it straight to the Correct Wheels, and I'll say it is a wicked car that Honda should have built in the first place.

 

[barryl85]

Don't get me started on Wrong Wheel Drive.

The best thing you can do to a WWD Car, is convert it to an AWD Car, so it's at least Less Wrong.

You convert a Civic to AWD, then make it put out about 400 Hp, I'll admit that it is a cool Civic.

Better yet, turn the engine the right way and run it straight to the Correct Wheels, and I'll say it is a wicked car that Honda should have built in the first place.

WWD? A small car with a semi-large engine can be loads of fun!

Why are you so bitter with FWD cars?

Take a reasonably quick civic - Maybe an EK style hatch VTi with the B16A engine 160bhp standard, put nice chunky fat wheels, good tyres, eibach lowering springs (nice and stiff) maybe 40-60mm all round and i can assure you that car wont budge off the road, i'd take on a RWD car round any corner! my standard ek civic doesnt budge never mind lowering it!

Are you trying to say that FWD cars arent or cant be quick?

 

[VIPFREAK]

Why are you so bitter with FWD cars?

Because he can't drift with his WWD Civic. Bwahahahahha!

 

[barryl85]

Because he can't drift with his WWD Civic. Bwahahahahha!

HA HA - is that so? Check this out then

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0504_ht_drift/index.html

Bwahahahahha!

 

[Hell Raiser]

All of the sudden this thread is turning into a Civic slug fest.............

 

[skip0110]

HA HA - is that so? Check this out then

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0504_ht_drift/index.html

Bwahahahahha!

Thats actually what I have parked (stock obviously) in my driveway. It's a real fun car to drive (not that great for long trips, but great on backroads) but I wouldn't say it's a very neutral car--transitions from understeer to oversteer too quickly and without warning. Might be the tires I have on it.

Now what does all this have to do with this tuner BMW? I realize I started this discussion--maybe if people want to continue it they should make a seperate thread. 👍

 

[NSX-R]

There is a difference...

There are differences...

Don't put blame on the...

Don't blame the...


Well, at least you recognize that Civics aren't Sports Cars...that counts for something, right?

GRAMMAR NAZI! AWAY! AWAY!
Anyways, when people talk emotionally, they don't really care about grammar, FACT.

It's not me who should realize Civics aren't Sport Cars, you are the one who should have that revelation.

"Oh, Civic SUCKS! They are not fun to drive, they cannot throw themselves sideways, OMFG they suck! And people are trying to tune them into F&F POS!"

Stop whining already. Civics are econoboxes, yes, and they are good at what they were meant to do: Take your lazy @$$ to point a to point b with good mileage. They are not sport cars, therefore they are not fun, well, at least not as fun as S2000.

"Well then I HATE econoboxes!"

Do we really need racism in the automotive industry too? Don't we already have enough in life to endure? I tell ya, if you cannot find a way to appreciate econoboxes, you are NOT a car enthusiast.

Live with that.

 

[barryl85]

Stop whining already. Civics are econoboxes, yes, and they are good at what they were meant to do

I tell ya, if you cannot find a way to appreciate econoboxes, you are NOT a car enthusiast.

Live with that.

Im sorry but i have to half agree with you their! i'll agree on the last part definately!

Ok i dont agree all civics are econo boxes (mines is) but not all!

Do people even realise what a 'vtec' system was designed for??? i do!

Honda designed the vtec system for fuel saving measures with a system that could produce more power than a turbo!

listen to this - small cars with large engines can be fun no matter the drivetrain! lets make a list of good little fast FWD cars!

Golf GTI - Econobox???
Peugeot 106 GTI - Econobox???
Peugeot 205 GTI Mi16 - Econobox???
Peugeot 306 GTI6 - Econobox???
Renault Clio 182 Cup - Econobox???
Ford Fiesta ST - Econobox???
Ford Fiesta XR2 - Econobox???
Ford Focus RS - Econobox???
Seat Leon Cupra - Econobox???
Seat Ibiza Cupra - Econobox???
Mini CooperS Works - Econobox???

All of these cars are in the same category zone as a reasonably quick or quick Civic Lets say EK9 or EP3 Type-r or an EK9VTi!

So are all those cars Econoboxes? Some of them are NA some of them are Turbo Charged - most of them fast little hatches & Most would be beaten easily with the two type r's!

How can anyone call on all types of Honda Civics like this?

 

[NSX-R]

Ok, I should have said MOST. I agree that Type-R, SiR are good, but I bet 9 out 10 civics you see on the road fit my describtion.

 

[barryl85]

Ok, I should have said MOST. I agree that Type-R, SiR are good, but I bet 9 out 10 civics you see on the road fit my describtion.

Yeah i agree there most are economy models, well maybe not in the UK EP3 - Type-r's are as common as muck! thats why i wouldnt want one - i want an EK9 type-r think there is only 9 or 10 in the UK!

I wasnt directing that post to you NSX-R just pointing out this thing every honda hater has with Civics!

 

[skip0110]

Honda designed the vtec system for fuel saving measures with a system that could produce more power than a turbo!

Variable valve timing cannot increse power production by very much for a given cam profile. It simply flattens the torque curve, thereby allowing engineers to use a more agressive (high-rpm biased) profile.

And just so you know, VVT was pioneered by GM and Fiat in the mid-70s.

 

[dropzone]

On Topic: I like the Tension, don't know bout the color but the design caught my attention.

Off Topic: oh wow, VTEC this, VTEC that, if its so good then why can I keep up with my friend stoplight racing? I'm in a 92 Corolla 4dr(stock, with a wack*** clutch) he's in a 97 Civic EX coupe(stock, his best 1/4mi ET is 16.1). All i gotta say is VTEC saved is ***, without it he'd lose to my Corolla. The horrible thing is he pulled better ETs in a B16 '90 Civic Hatch than the owner did(the owner was hitting high 16s-17s wtf) . Civics(or any car) that I give props to (99% of the time) aren't riced out. They gotta have a clean look, the best are sleepers. And it is the so-called "Civic culture" that has given Civics a "hated" rep, nice going Honda.

To NSX-R: What I was doing was adding my $ .02 to the whole Civic issue. I know you picked up on it, no.

All of the sudden this thread is turning into a Civic slug fest.............

 

[NSX-R]

I'm really not sure what you are implying here...

 

[[FPV]Rusty]

No im neither if those people and i love my Civic! So front wheel drive is crap eh??? Sure Pal!

front wheel drive is just technically inferior to other drive types, got to admit it. I'm not saying its crappy, it works with some cars. But its just to do with grip.

A tyre only has a limited amount of traction. putting drive through a tyre requires traction. In a fwd car, making the front wheels steer and drive the car both limits steering and acceleration. technically the best setup is RWD, two for turning, two for burning. But its not always the case, in low grip situations, 4WD, and yes FWD certaintly looks the better choice. The best balance you'll find is in cars like the lamboghini Gallardo. 4WD but with 30/70 torque split to the rear, but then the electronics kick in and put more torque to the front end when things get out of hand and putting as much as a 10/90 split to the rear under hard accelleration.

Me, I'll take RWD. Of course if i could afford a Gallardo...

 

[barryl85]

And just so you know, VVT was pioneered by GM and Fiat in the mid-70s.

VVT or VVTI is not the same as VTEC, VTEC is = Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control

Variable valve timing cannot increse power production by very much for a given cam profile. It simply flattens the torque curve, thereby allowing engineers to use a more agressive (high-rpm biased) profile.

Oh yes it does!

The classic problem facing high-performance street cars has always been how to maximize performance without sacrificing driveability. Short of power-adders like turbos or nitrous oxide, significant power increases are only achieved by extending the engine's rpm operating range, usually with some combination of intake, exhaust, camshaft, and cylinder head changes. But any significant gains upstairs inevitably cause a loss of low-speed performance, decreased fuel efficiency, and increased emissions.

The conundrum of camshaft selection is one of the key determinants in altering the powerband. Racing engines have longer intake/exhaust timing, a higher valve lift, and a narrower lobe displacement angle (LDA) than standard engines, which for low-speed response and power tend to have short durations, low valve-lift numbers, and a wide LDA. Beginning with the '89 Honda Integra in Japan and the '90 Acura NSX supercar in the U.S., Honda implemented a novel solution to the problem, effectively combining the attributes of both passenger-car and race-car cam timing with its unique VTEC system. The initials stand for Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control, and as the name implies, a VTEC engine can actually alter the cam timing while the engine is running.

Honda's VTEC system was more sophisticated than earlier variable-valve-timing systems developed by other manufacturers, which could only change the time both valves are open during the intake/exhaust overlap period on the transition between the exhaust and induction strokes. By contrast, the VTEC setup can alter both camshaft duration and valve lift. In its classic form as used on Honda's DOHC motors, each cam has two different sets of lobes: one used under low-speed conditions, and one that is only activated at high rpm (usually at points over 4,900 rpm). The high-speed lobe is almost a race-quality cam, with (on the popular Acura Integra B18C5 engine) 290 degrees advertised duration (about 242 degrees at 1mm [0.040-inch] lift).

 

[barryl85]

front wheel drive is just technically inferior to other drive types, got to admit it. I'm not saying its crappy, it works with some cars. But its just to do with grip.

A tyre only has a limited amount of traction. putting drive through a tyre requires traction. In a fwd car, making the front wheels steer and drive the car both limits steering and acceleration. technically the best setup is RWD, two for turning, two for burning. But its not always the case, in low grip situations, 4WD, and yes FWD certaintly looks the better choice. The best balance you'll find is in cars like the lamboghini Gallardo. 4WD but with 30/70 torque split to the rear, but then the electronics kick in and put more torque to the front end when things get out of hand and putting as much as a 10/90 split to the rear under hard accelleration.

Me, I'll take RWD. Of course if i could afford a Gallardo...

Ok we all know FWD is not better than RWD or 4WD but its wrong to call it Wrong Wheel Drive! Thats the only point i was making!

 

[[FPV]Rusty]

never said it was right to call it wrong wheel drive, but damn it's funny

 

[skip0110]

VVT or VVTI is not the same as VTEC, VTEC is = Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control

All achieve basically the same thing...

Oh yes it does!

(text stolen from HotRod.com: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0307_vtec/)

Rather than copy-pasting the first result of a Google search, you would be better served by instead reading this result. And if you did, you would realize that your supposed "argument" is not in disagreement with what I said at all. In fact, it perfectly backs my statements up.

 

[NSX-R]

Whoever's calling FWD crap should see BMI American Touge... I'm not saying FWD is better, I'm saying FWD can stay with a RWD if correctly tuned and driven.

 

[barryl85]

All achieve basically the same thing...
Rather than copy-pasting the first result of a Google search, you would be better served by instead reading this result. And if you did, you would realize that your supposed "argument" is not in disagreement with what I said at all. In fact, it perfectly backs my statements up.

I wasnt taking credit for the text in any form and the text wasnt stolen , i just didnt put link for where i got info from, if i wanted to steal text i certainly wouldnt have used google to find it

No they dont all achieve basicly the same thing or Honda wouldnt have bothered designing this system.

And it doesn't "perfectly backs my statements up" i recall you saying "Variable valve timing cannot increse power production by very much for a given cam profile"

This statement is not true as it can have a dramatic difference in power.

 

[Onikaze]

Want to know something funny?

The new Mustang GT has Variable Valve Timing.

I almost want to commit the ultimate sacrilege and put a VTEC badge on a new Mustang...magnetically of course, so I could take it off...


Yeah, FWD cars can be tuned to keep up with RWD cars.

What happens when you tune the RWD cars?

If WWD didn't suck so badly, wouldn't there be Le Mans Racers using that drivetrain?

 

[NSX-R]

Wow, you are dumber than I thought...

Of course anyone can make Vtec, but not everyone can make it as impressive as Honda. barryl85 actually explained it, so I'm not gonna say it again.

What happens when you tune RWD cars, they go fast! Then again, I still INSIST you to watch American touge sometime in your life. The "Drift king" and Orido, both very respected drivers, praised the Comptech s2000, and said it was on the same level as the Amuse s2000, which is arguablly most stable and fast car on both the track and the street.

Then again, there is the Topsetup EG6, with 220 bhp, and 910 kg. It tied with the Comptech s2000 in ID style BATTLE! From personal judgement, I reckon EG6 won without a doubt.

As regarding to the "Le Mans Monsters", I have never once in this thread ever, talked about FWD's abilities to handle power! I didn't say FWD make good drag racers either. FWD handles well, with a perdictable nature, is the ideal platform on street-tire endurance racing and amature racing. FWD doens't handle power, by it does use power efficiently when the power number is right.

I am NOT saying FWD is better than RWD, nor FWD can replace RWD in every way. What I am saying is that FWD can be fast, can be angile, and can be impressive even with your prejudice.

 

[Layla's Keeper]

In a brief brush with history, I'd like to point out that front wheel drive used to dominate Indy in Millers and Novis.

http://www.4wdonline.com/ClassicCars/Miller.html

 

[Onikaze]

Yeah, call me dumb, jump to conclusions because I am biased against a drivetrain type, and then tell me I have to watch a video that I have no real urge to find and watch.

GG bright boy.