After a 10 day hiatus I gave GT7 a second chance

  • Thread starter m76
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m76
And almost ended up ripping out the disc and breaking it in half. It took an inhumane amount of self control to not just do that.
But I did delete the game from the console. I'm done with GT7 with finality, unless they fix the physics.

After returning from the 10 day break the physics seems even worse than before. 250HP car, with aero, and racing tyres: Still drives like a sled. LMP cars also oversteer uncontrollably, even at low speeds.
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Before you depart...share a video of you having a rough time...pick a license test, a mission...something that shows you are being genuine. I ask this because...there has been royal follies by PD in the past -- the infamous grip bug in GTS -- and I for one, do not want to discount your experience.

My intention here is respectful, just share a vid of your experience so that if PD is at fault, then we can all help to get resolution.
 
I've read all the posts and there are quite a few good nuggets of info that was shared, now to add my voice to this chat...
Over the years of playing Turismo one thing I did notice was the fact that car physics improved with each and every edition, to me before I had GT7 I thought GTS was too grippy, some cars just did not lose their grip on the track, when I started in GT7 the cars (almost all) started to slide more, giving me the opportunity to learn better control of my car and improve my skills.
To me the physics are the best I can recall, the cars can and will slip if you are not careful.
Remember one thing, this is a sim, I personally would not drive on the track with the recklessness i use to win races, i take so much chances in this game i would never try on a track in real life, so goes to say that the physics are close to real? Who has the balls to really let it hang out driving at high speeds with fractions of an inch to the walls or other cars?
The physics are good enough....
 
PirovacBoy
To sum it up, i‘m not looking for a Physics Simulation, I’m looking for an enjoyable, authentic and subjectively easy to access Driving Simulator and with GT7 I can definitely say that i found what I was looking for.
PDs‘ Interpretation is unique and so accessible yet hard to master if you aim for the top 1%
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I think you don't know what authentic means. To put it simple, it means "real" or "same way as the original". And reality follows physics. So if you want your racing game to be authentic, it should do that. GT7 has areas where it demonstrably doesn't.
 
br1x
I think you don't know what authentic means. To put it simple, it means "real" or "same way as the original". And reality follows physics. So if you want your racing game to be authentic, it should do that. GT7 has areas where it demonstrably doesn't.
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If you want "real" then every time you hit a wall, your car gets seriously DAMAGED, if you hit it too hard, YOU GET DAMAGED.
do you want that reality?
 
jrbabbitt
If you want "real" then every time you hit a wall, your car gets seriously DAMAGED, if you hit it too hard, YOU GET DAMAGED.
do you want that reality?
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We are talking about car behavior, no clue why you come up with something completely unrelated.
 
br1x
I think you don't know what authentic means. To put it simple, it means "real" or "same way as the original". And reality follows physics. So if you want your racing game to be authentic, it should do that. GT7 has areas where it demonstrably doesn't.
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Well, you know, when the Apple hits the Ground I know that Gravity must have played a Role.
Did the Apple Follow Corresponding correctly to physical Laws?!
Most obvious, yes.
Do I have to be a Scientist now to acknowledge that the Apple is not hanging in the Tree anymore…
 
NJ72
Sorry, let me rephrase. GT7 isn't a flight simulator, no need to announce your departure.

The upshot is that GT7 isn't perfect, sadly no game is, but I - along with a lot of other people here - do find it enjoyable and most agree it is good progress on from GTS. If you're just here to whinge, that's cool, but your condescending tone and post won't gain many friends or allies around these parts
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lol no, its no progress from Sport. The online is universally agreed upon that its is far worse the Sports.
 
Supaboost
lol no, its no progress from Sport. The online is universally agreed upon that its is far worse the Sports.
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That's nonsense...

The driving physics of GT7 a far better and far more realistic than the physics in GTS, different cars actually do behave and react differntly now...GTS was far to easy, pretty much all FR cars(or all Gr3 cars) behaved more or less the same, once you've figured it out you could take pretty much all the corners the same way with different cars and there where wide turns you could take flat out with no troubles at al(eg. second turn in Alsace)

Second Turn in Alsace now is a challenge with some cars, you have to figure out how fast you can go and which line to take with every car, and with some you can't do it full throttle like in GTS...I like that:It is more challenging but far more rewarding!

Edit: one sign that GTS was too easy: I completed all CEs in GTS in gold(except Sarthe),even the Nordschleife, and I am not a very good driver(was C/D in the online races, never better) and I play with pad and automatic transmission.So if that is possible, it cannot be a difficult racing game...;)
 
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PirovacBoy
@m76 what exactly is it that’s giving you Headache.
You say you‘ve played Sims for over 20years, yet you‘re not able to adapt to GT7s Physics???
Tells me a lot about your skill Level.
I‘m in the same Boat as you.
I play Racing Sims for over 20years and I can assure you GT7 is the most authentic Replication of Car Dynamics.
It might not be the most accurate Simulation in terms of Physics but it’s not about Physics.
It’s about the Replication of real World Car Behavior and GT7 is unrivaled in that regard.
Driving Dynamics and Intuitive and natural Understanding of Car Dynamics are on another Level.
Maybe you should just accept that you miss something 😉
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Yes, I definitely missed something in this game: having fun.

Talking of fun, it's always funny when wannabe truthsayers try to question your skill. I never said the game is impossible. I'm 90% through it, and did gold on every mission and license test up to the point where I stopped playing. What I actually said that the game is not realistic or fun in its current implementation.

I agree that the car dynamics are imitated well, it took me weeks before it dawned on me that something is wrong with the physics. Like It's contrary to known newtonian physics that tyres break traction easier in higher gear (less torque) than in lower gear (more torque). Yet this is how it is in this game. I'm not going to learn to break habits that work in real life and every other game, except this.
 
br1x
I think you don't know what authentic means. To put it simple, it means "real" or "same way as the original". And reality follows physics. So if you want your racing game to be authentic, it should do that. GT7 has areas where it demonstrably doesn't.
Click to expand...
@PirovacBoy doesn't mean authentic. He means verisimilitudinous. Which to be fair, is not a term most people come across, but it simply means "giving the impression of being real".

GT7 isn't massively realistic by comparison with other simulations that are available at the moment. But to certain people, it may come across as a reasonable approximation of reality to the point that they're not really able to distinguish the difference. And for a game like GT that's honestly probably good enough.

The only problem comes when people start to pretend that GT7 is an excellent simulation. It's not, it just plays the role of one fairly well if you're not seriously into physics and engineering. That what games like it and Forza Motorsport try to do - present a simplified version of real life physics that is more approachable for a casual game player who just wants to hoon around in cars and doesn't necessarily have a background in physics or engineering.

It does raise an issue though that a lot of people seem to be struggling to engage with GT7s physics, so they're maybe not doing as good a job of being an accessible version of real life as they could be. It's possible that a slightly less "real" but more forgiving version of physics (like GTS) would be a more appropriate fit for the Gran Turismo audience, given that Polyphony is never going to go full rF2/AMS2/ACC levels of physics accuracy.
 
PirovacBoy
Well, you know, when the Apple hits the Ground I know that Gravity must have played a Role.
Did the Apple Follow Corresponding correctly to physical Laws?!
Most obvious, yes.
Do I have to be a Scientist now to acknowledge that the Apple is not hanging in the Tree anymore…
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To understand it, no.
But if you want to make a game where apples fall in an authentic way, you have to follow the laws of physics.
 
Imari
@PirovacBoy doesn't mean authentic. He means verisimilitudinous. Which to be fair, is not a term most people come across, but it simply means "giving the impression of being real".

GT7 isn't massively realistic by comparison with other simulations that are available at the moment. But to certain people, it may come across as a reasonable approximation of reality to the point that they're not really able to distinguish the difference. And for a game like GT that's honestly probably good enough.

The only problem comes when people start to pretend that GT7 is an excellent simulation. It's not, it just plays the role of one fairly well if you're not seriously into physics and engineering. That what games like it and Forza Motorsport try to do - present a simplified version of real life physics that is more approachable for a casual game player who just wants to hoon around in cars and doesn't necessarily have a background in physics or engineering.

It does raise an issue though that a lot of people seem to be struggling to engage with GT7s physics, so they're maybe not doing as good a job of being an accessible version of real life as they could be. It's possible that a slightly less "real" but more forgiving version of physics (like GTS) would be a more appropriate fit for the Gran Turismo audience, given that Polyphony is never going to go full rF2/AMS2/ACC levels of physics accuracy.
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I sign most of your posting...

I am not seriously into physics and engineering, so I don't expect (and don't want) a 1:1 simulation of real racing
I only played one real Sim so far-GT Legends on the PC with a wheel-and although I enjoyed that a lot, it needed too much attention and comitment and too much time too invest in the end...I would had to make it my Nr.1 hobby to really enjoy it log term...
At the same time I don't want a simple and easy arcade racer...for me GT so far has been the best for me, and among the GTs I played so far(GT1, GT2, GT4 and GTS), I like the physics of GT7 the most, because they are the most challenging and the most versatile(meaning, that differnt cars really feel different and are different to drive) of any GTs so far that I have played. I am aware, that GT7 might be between the seats somehow, because it might be too difficult for casual players and not accurate enough for the sim-freaks, but I like it and a I would dislike downgrade to GTS physics very much...
 
Batschisane52
I am aware, that GT7 might be between the seats somehow, because it might be too difficult for casual players and not accurate enough for the sim-freaks, but I like it and a I would dislike downgrade to GTS physics very much...
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I agree. GT7 definitely isn't the most realistic racer out there, but a return to GTS' driving model would just kill the game for me.

In GT7 I look forward to driving every car I buy/earn because each of them feel like they have their own character. GTS didn't have that for me, especially with the FWD cars...
 
m76
Yes, I definitely missed something in this game: having fun.

Talking of fun, it's always funny when wannabe truthsayers try to question your skill. I never said the game is impossible. I'm 90% through it, and did gold on every mission and license test up to the point where I stopped playing. What I actually said that the game is not realistic or fun in its current implementation.

I agree that the car dynamics are imitated well, it took me weeks before it dawned on me that something is wrong with the physics. Like It's contrary to known newtonian physics that tyres break traction easier in higher gear (less torque) than in lower gear (more torque). Yet this is how it is in this game. I'm not going to learn to break habits that work in real life and every other game, except this.
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Well, in that case it’s up to you what you make of it and if you feel the need or want to adapt to it.
I never questioned your Skills though.
It’s a matter of what you make of it or willing to make of it.

You know what’s ever more funny to me?!

People who have to explain everything to death instead of accepting the simplicity and making the best out of what has been offered.
Nothing or nobody is perfect, nor am I.
I just try to make the best of it, and don’t complain.

@Imari never heard of that term verisimilitudinous before but thank you, it pretty much explains what I tried to say.
Sorry for my mediocre English.
Unfortunately I’m not able to communicate in my Language, but at least someone who understood what I meant 😁
 
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PirovacBoy
@Imari never heard of that term verisimilitudinous before but thank you, it pretty much explains what I tried to say.
Sorry for my mediocre English.
Unfortunately I’m not able to communicate in my Language, but at least someone who understood what I meant 😁
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Your English is fine, it's not a word that comes up a lot outside of some fairly advanced discussion of movie editing and the like.

Good movie/video editing can make you feel like you're really watching something actually happen, even though it's on a screen with actors and props and who knows what other fake things. The beach landing scene from Saving Private Ryan is a good example, it feels chaotic and noisy and terrifying and there's too many things happening at once to see properly which is probably a fair approximation of what it would feel like to be on that beach.

GT7 should be doing the same, and some people seem to think that it does a good job but others not. Neither is wrong, it's a personal thing and it's all about how it makes you feel. But if a lot of people are not getting that feeling that it seems real to them, then the developer should probably have done a better job tuning their physics. The point is that ideally all players should get that realistic feeling, or at least most of them.
PirovacBoy
Did I ?!
I don’t think so.
I said it tells me a lot about your Skill Level.
To me that’s not questioning it.
It’s a Statement.
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This is where your English is letting you down. "To question" something can mean "to raise doubt about". You raised doubt that they had sufficient skill. Kinda rude, and your alternative that you were simply stating that they were a bad player is not really better.

Besides, it's less about whether someone could adapt to the physics and more about whether someone would have fun doing so. I probably could learn to drive with my wheel upside down on my desk, but I wouldn't because it wouldn't be fun. It's a game, not a job.
 
@Imari thanks for pointing it out.
It honestly wasn’t my intention to insult or make my Statement to come around the way it most obviously did.
In that case I apologize to you @m76 , I didn’t question or disrespectfully meant to be rude or raise doubt about your Skills.
I was just simply referring to the ability to be able to adapt to the Game.
Maybe I should have pointed it out more clearly and obvious.
Well, but saying I’m a Wannabe Truthsayer was a bit rude too, although not mentioning me precisely, but never mind.
If that’s what I am for you, ok, than may it be so.
 
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It's times like this I always scratch my head.

I've played racing games since Pole Position and Virtua Racing and now play AC: Competizione and Forza Horizion 4 and just love the feeling of them all. I went over to my Brothers place a few weeks ago and played hours of GT7 and thought it felt marvelous. It looked amazing, handled beautifully and the new trigger force feedback was unlike anythign I've felt in a controller. It's not a Fanatec steering wheel, but it's really communicative.

Then I read threads like these with toys being thrown out of the pram and I think; Is it me or is it them?

In the end, I'm happy with the simulation and it feels so good and descriptive. I'm sad you're not enjoying it but there's more fun things to do in life than go against the grain and get so stressed out. Maybe play GT Sport and go for a drive in real life instead?
 
Wools
It's times like this I always scratch my head.

I've played racing games since Pole Position and Virtua Racing and now play AC: Competizione and Forza Horizion 4 and just love the feeling of them all. I went over to my Brothers place a few weeks ago and played hours of GT7 and thought it felt marvelous. It looked amazing, handled beautifully and the new trigger force feedback was unlike anythign I've felt in a controller. It's not a Fanatec steering wheel, but it's really communicative.

Then I read threads like these with toys being thrown out of the pram and I think; Is it me or is it them?

In the end, I'm happy with the simulation and it feels so good and descriptive. I'm sad you're not enjoying it but there's more fun things to do in life than go against the grain and get so stressed out. Maybe play GT Sport and go for a drive in real life instead?
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To be fair, this is an old franchise with people that have been supporting it for 20+ years. It's obviously going to change and evolve over that time, but it's normal to have an emotional response when it changes in a way that makes you love it less.

See Star Wars as an easy example - when the prequels came out a lot of people were mad because it was so different to what they fell in love with, and then when the sequels came out a lot more people were mad because they were different again. Also, they were bad.

It's not that hard to see why some people would love GT7, but it's also not that hard to see why it would rub some people up the wrong way. Expressing emotion at the state of GT7 really only happens when someone was already emotionally invested in the franchise. If this was the first game of a franchise people would just write it off as not for them. But it hurts a little to see something you loved turning into something you don't.

I think people exaggerate quite a lot in their responses, both positive and negative. But those exaggerations both come from a place of loving the game series as a whole, and so unless people are saying stuff that's just factually untrue it seems fine for them to have a rant and get their feelings out. People don't make the effort to come and post on a Gran Turismo forum unless they at least give a little bit of a ****.
 
Also, thexsettings are all messed up and in reverse.
For instance toe-in promotes oversteer in game, in real life it does the opposite.
Other than that the settings all seem to be hit and miss.
 
m76
Yes, I definitely missed something in this game: having fun.

Talking of fun, it's always funny when wannabe truthsayers try to question your skill. I never said the game is impossible. I'm 90% through it, and did gold on every mission and license test up to the point where I stopped playing. What I actually said that the game is not realistic or fun in its current implementation.

I agree that the car dynamics are imitated well, it took me weeks before it dawned on me that something is wrong with the physics. Like It's contrary to known newtonian physics that tyres break traction easier in higher gear (less torque) than in lower gear (more torque). Yet this is how it is in this game. I'm not going to learn to break habits that work in real life and every other game, except this.
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I stopped playing after 4 days with the same reasoning. Easily the worst physics and feedback I've ever experienced and I can only scratch my head when people say otherwise.

It's funny, in an exasperating kind of way, that they know about the game's issues but they won't accept other people being overly critical of them. The physics thread has become a meme with all the blinkered people in there.
 
br1x
We are talking about car behavior, no clue why you come up with something completely unrelated.
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Car behavior is related, as I said in full post and I'm paraphrasing...if you were to drive your real cars the way we drive in GT7, we would be sliding all over and the "car behavior" would be very similar. Re-read my full post a few spots above what you quoted...
 
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jrbabbitt
Car behavior is related, as I said in full post and I'm paraphrasing...if you were to drive your real cars the way we drive in GT7, we would be sliding all over and the "car behavior" would be very similar. Re-read my full post not take sentences out of context.
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What on earth are you talking about, I literally quoted your whole answer to my post, how can it be out of context when it is exactly what you answered?

Also: no, driving dynamics in a game are not necessarily related to a damage model or even getting hurt in real life by hitting the wall in a game. Absolutely not.

And as mentioned I before, I can for example compare the 370Zs real life behaviour to its behaviour in GT7 and it doesn't slide nearly as much in real life as it does in the game.
 
RedRockValley
I agree. GT7 definitely isn't the most realistic racer out there, but a return to GTS' driving model would just kill the game for me.

In GT7 I look forward to driving every car I buy/earn because each of them feel like they have their own character. GTS didn't have that for me, especially with the FWD cars...
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To your point, I bought the Trans Am that was available (the Smokey and the Bandit one). I've driven these in other GTs, including Sport. And they were DULL in stock form. Really, really dull. I've driven a similar car in real life years ago. Now, I'm not a fan - far from it. But it was fun to drive. I think it was a Trans Am (maybe Firebird, but whatever), 305 H.O., manual transmission of course. And even though I don't like the car, it was pretty fun to drive. And GT7 makes it have some character, and a little bit of fun. It doesn't feel dead. I've noticed that on other cars that were previously boring to drive
 

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