All life as a 5th dimension single entity - what do you think?

[F1jocker12]

How would a fifth dimensional object appear in a fourth dimensional world? This is too weird. But, we could ask how a fifth dimensional object appears in a three dimensional world. It is analogous to how a three dimensional object appears in a one dimensional world. How would a hollow sphere (three-dimensions) appear to one-dimensional Walter? The answer is, it depends on how the sphere is positioned as it goes through Walter’s one-dimensional world. If just the edge or cusp of the sphere clips Walter’s world, then the sphere appears as a dot, barely separates into two points, immediately coalesces back to a dot, and disappears. If the sphere is moved over slightly, and then passed through Walter’s one-dimensional world again, the dots appear to separate further before reversing direction, coalescing and disappearing. So, it seems that the sphere (three-dimensions) is perceived in a one-dimensional world as change-with-time (the circle) that itself changes with time (i.e. each passage yields different behavior of the circle).

from
http://www.mikeblaber.org/dimensions/dimensions.htm

 

[JKgo]

....Interstellar....

(Couldn't help it. Bought the movie a few days ago, see.)

 

[F1jocker12]

....Interstellar....

(Couldn't help it. Bought the movie a few days ago, see.)

That is one of the most interesting movies ever... Cloud Atlas too...

 

[JKgo]

That is one of the most interesting movies ever... Cloud Atlas too...

....Agreed on Interstellar, but as I haven't seen Cloud Atlas (but heard many conflicting stories for it) I'll reserve judgement on that one.

(Actually Wachowskis movies don't interest me all that much anyway...)

 

[Famine]

It is analogous to how a three dimensional object appears in a one dimensional world. How would a hollow sphere (three-dimensions) appear to one-dimensional Walter? The answer is, it depends on how the sphere is positioned as it goes through Walter’s one-dimensional world.

It either can't be seen or it can't go through Walter's one-dimensional world. Time is a dimension, so it's either a location for eternity or it exists only in time without physical manifestation.

For it to appear as a location and have a duration, it needs two dimensions.

If just the edge or cusp of the sphere clips Walter’s world, then the sphere appears as a dot, barely separates into two points, immediately coalesces back to a dot, and disappears.

That requires three dimensions: two spatial dimensions and time. So no it doesn't.

If the sphere is moved over slightly, and then passed through Walter’s one-dimensional world again, the dots appear to separate further before reversing direction, coalescing and disappearing.

And so does that.

So, it seems that the sphere (three-dimensions) is perceived in a one-dimensional world as change-with-time (the circle) that itself changes with time (i.e. each passage yields different behavior of the circle).

For the sphere (three spatial dimensions) to change with time (another dimension), four dimensions are needed. A circle (two spatial dimensions) that changes with time would be a three dimensional object.

A one-dimensional universe would either be a single spatial dimension for eternity (with Walter and the sphere as points on a line that never change) or the passage of time without spatial dimensions (where Walter and the sphere do not exist).

The author of that piece doesn't know what dimensions are. Further to that his conclusion is that time is two different dimensions - the time it takes for an individual to exist and the time it takes for a species to exist - on only the basis that he thinks a lot of time is a bit too much to understand. Neither of those things are true.

 

[F1jocker12]

It either can't be seen or it can't go through Walter's one-dimensional world. Time is a dimension, so it's either a location for eternity or it exists only in time without physical manifestation.

For it to appear as a location and have a duration, it needs two dimensions.That requires three dimensions: two spatial dimensions and time. So no it doesn't.And so does that.For the sphere (three spatial dimensions) to change with time (another dimension), four dimensions are needed. A circle (two spatial dimensions) that changes with time would be a three dimensional object.

A one-dimensional universe would either be a single spatial dimension for eternity (with Walter and the sphere as points on a line that never change) or the passage of time without spatial dimensions (where Walter and the sphere do not exist).

The author of that piece doesn't know what dimensions are. Further to that his conclusion is that time is two different dimensions - the time it takes for an individual to exist and the time it takes for a species to exist - on only the basis that he thinks a lot of time is a bit too much to understand. Neither of those things are true.

This is the author...
Dr. Michael Blaber
Dept of Biomedical Sciences
Florida State University
Tallahassee FL 32306-4300
TEL: 850 644 3361
FAX: 850 644 9399
email:michael.blaber@med.fsu.edu

 

[Famine]

And why are we posting this chap's address, phone number and e-mail address? Exactly what is it you hope to achieve by doing so?

 

[Pseudopod]

All life as a 5th dimension single entity - what do you think?

Sure, why not?

 

[Johnnypenso]

All life as a 5th dimension single entity - what do you think?

Sure, why not?

Some way, somehow, this is going to end up being a Jewish conspiracy, I just know it.

 

[Dennisch]

Shouldn't Dr. Blaber be studying the inner workings of the human body instead this half assed, pseudo scientific failure?

Or is he also an aspiring philosopher?

 

[Grand Prix]

Maybe he just likes to blab about stuff?

 

[ABP]

Wow, this article is as vague as you can get with dimensions. There are just too many options to define a 5-dimensional entity.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Supposing that we "suspend" dimensions (as Dr. Blaber does for his instantive examples, it seems), then what he says makes some theoretical sense. The end or purpose is unclear other than to say that we, as four-dimensional objects may be in our temporal entirety considerable as an overall fifth-dimensional object. Why it might be useful for us to consider that isn't made clear.

Strange, strange article.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I believe there is a hidden message in the happy faces. At least two of them are frowns. That's got to mean something.

 

[Exorcet]

Supposing that we "suspend" dimensions (as Dr. Blaber does for his instantive examples, it seems), then what he says makes some theoretical sense. The end or purpose is unclear other than to say that we, as four-dimensional objects may be in our temporal entirety considerable as an overall fifth-dimensional object. Why it might be useful for us to consider that isn't made clear.

Strange, strange article.

I don't know if the term object/entity quite makes sense. You could define a 5D object that would translate into a 4D slideshow of evolution, but that doesn't mean all organisms are actually connected as an object. The idea of stitching timeframes together (like the often used example of an aging person) to form a higher dimensional object fails to take into account that time is not a spatial dimension. The created hi-D object is only hypothetical/mathematical.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't know if the term object/entity quite makes sense. You could define a 5D object that would translate into a 4D slideshow of evolution, but that doesn't mean all organisms are actually connected as an object. The idea of stitching timeframes together (like the often used example of an aging person) to form a higher dimensional object fails to take into account that time is not a spatial dimension. The created hi-D object is only hypothetical/mathematical.

I quite agree. I think the point that he is trying to make is that we, as a human, are a four-dimensional object (we occupy three dimensions and change along the fourth). Because the species itself is changing then he argues that we could be seen, in totality, as having a fifth dimension along which our four-dimensional properties change. Which is a pointless idea, but his explanation does at least make sense.

 

[JMoney]

Whew. That's a headache in a can.

 

[polysmut]

It sounds very much like Flatland.

 

[Pupik]

Some way, somehow, this is going to end up being a Jewish conspiracy, I just know it.

FSU's Hillel chapter wants a word with you, son.

 

[Dotini]

I do not accept any additional dimensions. But I do not rule them out, primarily because there is no good explanation for consciousness.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I believe in the Fifth Dimension...and had a mad crush on Marilyn McCoo in my formative years, who is in fact, a part of the Fifth Dimension:

 

[Danoff]

The first 4 dimensions are space-time. The 5th dimension then is the ability to travel across alternate timelines. So for example to travel in the fifth dimension would be to go directly from our world, to a world where you decided to have orange juice this morning instead of coffee. Mind boggling, I know. Imagine all of the ripple effects that that change might cause. You might have peed 5 minutes earlier as a result, and then you'd have taken a break 5 minutes earlier in your day and spoken with a different co-worker about the weather.

We exist in all 5 dimensions (and more), we're 5 dimensional beings. We travel through the 5th dimension on a single line, just like we travel through the 4th dimension at a single speed and in a single direction (ok, I lied a little, we do have the ability to change our travel in the 4th dimension a bit by accelerating ourselves).

To a certain extent the notion that all life could be the same being could be true, since we may all have sprung from the same life at one point in all 5 dimensions, but that doesn't make us any more the same being as the fact that we may have all sprung from the same point in space-time, or just space for that matter.

 

[F1jocker12]

The first 4 dimensions are space-time. The 5th dimension then is the ability to travel across alternate timelines. So for example to travel in the fifth dimension would be to go directly from our world, to a world where you decided to have orange juice this morning instead of coffee. Mind boggling, I know. Imagine all of the ripple effects that that change might cause. You might have peed 5 minutes earlier as a result, and then you'd have taken a break 5 minutes earlier in your day and spoken with a different co-worker about the weather.

We exist in all 5 dimensions (and more), we're 5 dimensional beings. We travel through the 5th dimension on a single line, just like we travel through the 4th dimension at a single speed and in a single direction (ok, I lied a little, we do have the ability to change our travel in the 4th dimension a bit by accelerating ourselves).

To a certain extent the notion that all life could be the same being could be true, since we may all have sprung from the same life at one point in all 5 dimensions, but that doesn't make us any more the same being as the fact that we may have all sprung from the same point in space-time, or just space for that matter.

The author explanation of all life being one single 5th dimensional entity is that all we've seen from the beginning of life, is the contact zone between our 3 dimensional world and that 5th dimension, like the 3 dimensional circle in 1 dimension Watsons world, looks like 1 dot, changes to 2 dots, and goes back to 1 dot and dissapears... I do need to emphasize about how "passing" (making perspective changes) in that given example, represents the 4th dimension, which is time.

The beauty of this concept is how we will try to indentify life (the 5th dimension) on other planets in the Universe. It is almost a geometrical configuration (contact zone of many dimensions), rather than probability.

Also, if life is the dimension, the energy (spiritually you do not feel like aging at all), that means birth and death are only stages in its forms development, and the connection betwen life and time, makes time look linear. Consequently, one lifes form desire to travel thru time (if time it is not only linear) will force that form to move out of its dimension which is life.

Also means that life (as a 5th dimension - energy) is not depending on a form or another, meaning it can be a cycle with birth and death as over and over again stages (reincarnation). The only contact zone between time (4th dimension) and life (5th dimension) can explain our irreversable transformation as life forms, meaning aging is forced by 4th and 5th dimensions contact zone (relation).

 

[Famine]

Also, if life is the dimension, the energy (spiritually you do not feel like aging at all), that means birth and death are only stages in its forms development, and the connection betwen life and time, makes time look linear.

Do the three dimensions of space only look linear too? Can you have negative size?

Incidentally you didn't answer this question.

 

[Danoff]

The author explanation of all life being one single 5th dimensional entity is that all we've seen from the beginning of life, is the contact zone between our 3 dimensional world and that 5th dimension, like the 3 dimensional circle in 1 dimension Watsons world, looks like 1 dot, changes to 2 dots, and goes back to 1 dot and dissapears... I do need to emphasize about how "passing" (making perspective changes) in that given example, represents the 4th dimension, which is time.

The beauty of this concept is how we will try to indentify life (the 5th dimension) on other planets in the Universe. It is almost a geometrical configuration (contact zone of many dimensions), rather than probability.

Also, if life is the dimension, the energy (spiritually you do not feel like aging at all), that means birth and death are only stages in its forms development, and the connection betwen life and time, makes time look linear. Consequently, one lifes form desire to travel thru time (if time it is not only linear) will force that form to move out of its dimension which is life.

Also means that life (as a 5th dimension - energy) is not depending on a form or another, meaning it can be a cycle with birth and death as over and over again stages (reincarnation). The only contact zone between time (4th dimension) and life (5th dimension) can explain our irreversable transformation as life forms, meaning aging is forced by 4th and 5th dimensions contact zone (relation).

We know what the 5th dimension is... it's lateral movement in the 4th dimension (time). You can't just redefine it to be all life, it ignores what we already know about the universe. The 6th dimension would then be the third direction of movement in that space.

There's yet another problem with defining life as a dimension, it presumes that life is an inherent property of our universe - throughout the universe. But why? We have a solid understanding of where life comes from, why do we need to postulate that it is some fundamental property of reality that simply exists? Because it makes people feel better about themselves and the universe that's why. But often times what makes people feel better gets in the way of hard science, and when that happens, your feel-good notions about what you'd like to be true about the universe need to get out of the way and let real knowledge take its place.

For the interstellar movie folks, the scenes in that movie have some real basis in actual science.

 

[Exorcet]

The author explanation of all life being one single 5th dimensional entity is that all we've seen from the beginning of life, is the contact zone between our 3 dimensional world and that 5th dimension, like the 3 dimensional circle in 1 dimension Watsons world, looks like 1 dot, changes to 2 dots, and goes back to 1 dot and dissapears... I do need to emphasize about how "passing" (making perspective changes) in that given example, represents the 4th dimension, which is time.

The beauty of this concept is how we will try to indentify life (the 5th dimension) on other planets in the Universe. It is almost a geometrical configuration (contact zone of many dimensions), rather than probability.

Also, if life is the dimension, the energy (spiritually you do not feel like aging at all), that means birth and death are only stages in its forms development, and the connection betwen life and time, makes time look linear. Consequently, one lifes form desire to travel thru time (if time it is not only linear) will force that form to move out of its dimension which is life.

Also means that life (as a 5th dimension - energy) is not depending on a form or another, meaning it can be a cycle with birth and death as over and over again stages (reincarnation). The only contact zone between time (4th dimension) and life (5th dimension) can explain our irreversable transformation as life forms, meaning aging is forced by 4th and 5th dimensions contact zone (relation).

Life isn't a dimension. As I understand it there are 10 dimensions, we get 10 because that's how many we need to define all of possibility. Position (1-3), time (4), timelines [time branches from every point in time] (5), origin timelines [time branches from the Big Bang] (6), initial conditions [every possible Big Bang] (7), timelines of the initial conditions [every possible timeline for every possible Big Bang] (8), time plane [every variation of every timeline of every Big Bang] (9), everything (10).

You can also define physical higher dimensions mathematically by adding a direction at 90 degrees to every other pre defined direction, but this doesn't really mean anything outside of graphs.

I can get with the idea of think of all [Earth] life as one organism sort of, as it's all genetically related, but there is no special higher dimension of form of life. Basically, you can make a graph of what this guy is describing, but that graph doesn't really mean anything.

 

[F1jocker12]

Do the three dimensions of space only look linear too? Can you have negative size?

Incidentally you didn't answer this question.

D1, D2 and D3? He is not elaborating on that. In my opinion, negative size will be defined by your postion in a 3D environment. The first three dimensions create boundaries of perception. Whoever will be inside those boundaries, will define the accessible perceived elements as physical reality.

Theoretically, each dimension can be described as a layer, and our reality can be defined by the contact zone of those layers. Each layer penetrates the other layers but is not identified as doing so.

Our lives were contained in this frame of reference for so long that we are generally thinking that is all there is, but is not all there is.

Your question - That is public info at http://www.mikeblaber.org/ on the left of the page.
I think this professor is playing with the notion of dimensions, like we are racing GT6 at Suzuka in a Fiat 500. I thought you were jumping on conclusions a little. Here you have his Curriculum vita/resume http://www.mikeblaber.org/cvita.html
If I am trying to achieve something, that will be the same thing he tries to achieve by publishing that info on his website. Some of the GTP members might be interested to figure where this theory is coming form, by not willing to digg it out from the rest of the internet.

it ignores what we already know about the universe

We know very little about our universe, about our brains, about our feelings.

We have a solid understanding of where life comes from

Many will argue that. I think there are more things we don't know about or we do not understand, than viceversa. I support science 100% but I also want to stay honest about our very limited knowledge as humans.

Life isn't a dimension.

I don't know if life is or is not a dimension. What we understand is defined by our boundaries of perception and physical reality (see above). The rest is theory and theories are limitless.

I want to be clear here, and let you all know how much I appreciate your input. There are few theories about a 5th dimension, and this is one of them. I personally like the concept, because, the more you think of it, the more you can emphasize on how this 5th layer looks like, and what its properties are.

An interesting approach can be the connection between our brains and hearts in relation to our life (D5). D4 (time) is generating experience thru ageing in a constantly changing limited (by the other 3 dimensions) reality. On top of that you have the concept of "spirit", which includes life forms feelings and thoughts. And on top of that you have "dreaming" when your movements are different than real life, and can be associated to a projection from previous individual forms inside life as a dimension.

 

[Exorcet]

I don't know if life is or is not a dimension. What we understand is defined by our boundaries of perception and physical reality (see above). The rest is theory and theories are limitless.

Well dimensions can be traversed, you can define where you are within dimensions with a position. For the spatial dimensions the position is defined with distance, with time hours, minutes, etc. You can't do the same with "life".

As for perception, yes it does shape what we know, but we have to go with what appears to be most correct. I don't know what you mean by theories being limitless. Theories are limited by out perception as well.

I want to be clear here, and let you all know how much I appreciate your input. There are few theories about a 5th dimension, and this is one of them. I personally like the concept, because, the more you think of it, the more you can emphasize on how this 5th layer looks like, and what its properties are.

Higher dimensions are mentioned in string theory, it's actually not much of a fringe or oft mentioned idea. They're not confirmed to exist, but they're accepted as possible.

An interesting approach can be the connection between our brains and hearts in relation to our life (D5). D4 (time) is generating experience thru ageing in a constantly changing limited (by the other 3 dimensions) reality. On top of that you have the concept of "spirit", which includes life forms feelings and thoughts. And on top of that you have "dreaming" when your movements are different than real life, and can be associated to a projection from previous individual forms inside life as a dimension.

Wouldn't this require an observation of the spiritual?

 

[F1jocker12]

Well dimensions can be traversed, you can define where you are within dimensions with a position. For the spatial dimensions the position is defined with distance, with time hours, minutes, etc. You can't do the same with "life.

And you can define were you are within life (if life is a dimension) by its form at a given time and given three dimensional position in space. If life is a dimension, we are sorrounded by its forms at a given time. Think of reincarnation, and you will see how this concept works. It is individual contact patches forms at a given moment in time.

As for perception, yes it does shape what we know, but we have to go with what appears to be most correct. I don't know what you mean by theories being limitless. Theories are limited by out perception as well.

Theories can be also abstract. Let's look at language for a minute. It is limitless, and the theories regarding language are limitless. The "universally" recognized language at this point, is mathematics, but only because we also "universally" recognise and accept it's symbols. Imagine how an alien civilization... first - can have a different mathematicall structure and logic based on different planetary conditions, secondly - can use other symbols, and even if we accept mathematics as universal (by our standards), we will be unable to understand eachother because of different conditions that created the 2 systems and their different symbols.
I'll give an example... This amazonian tribe has no concept of time while living inside time.

They also found nobody in the community had an age.

Instead, they change their names to reflect their life-stage and position within their society.

A little child will give up their name to a newborn sibling and take on a new one

So those people, even if they live on the same planet, with a clear day and night cycle (which other planet will not have, or at least without the same almost constant frequency), they divide time by their individual names. So imagine how an alien civilization will be incapable to communicate with us about time refferences only because our system of measuring and dividing a one directional dimension is different. Same with mathematics, physics and chemistry. If the fundamentals are different, even is the results are the same, we are going to have huge difficulties to understand eachother.
So theorizing is limitless, because of the abstract characteristic of the limitless ideeas about anything. Of course, the so called proven theories you are reffering to, are real or (sometimes) abstract projections inside our boundaries of perception.

Wouldn't this require an observation of the spiritual?

I will consider this an energy, which can move from a form to another, from a place to another, inside D5 - life.

 

[Danoff]

D1, D2 and D3? He is not elaborating on that. In my opinion, negative size will be defined by your postion in a 3D environment. The first three dimensions create boundaries of perception. Whoever will be inside those boundaries, will define the accessible perceived elements as physical reality.

Huh? Are you trying to claim that I can't perceive time?

Theoretically, each dimension can be described as a layer, and our reality can be defined by the contact zone of those layers. Each layer penetrates the other layers but is not identified as doing so.

Actually... each dimension is well understood as affecting the other. I even gave an example earlier.

Our lives were contained in this frame of reference for so long that we are generally thinking that is all there is, but is not all there is.

Right... time is a great example of something more than space.

We know very little about our universe, about our brains, about our feelings.

We know more than you pretend.

I want to be clear here, and let you all know how much I appreciate your input. There are few theories about a 5th dimension, and this is one of them. I personally like the concept, because, the more you think of it, the more you can emphasize on how this 5th layer looks like, and what its properties are.

So... if we're agreed on the notion that the 4th dimension is time... how is the 5th dimension even possibly life? It'd be a degree of freedom in time BY DEFINITION.

Once again, there's no need for life to be a dimension. Without some sort of data that requires that as an explanation, let's just stick to the explanations that fit the actual data.