Am I in the wrong here?

[TheGeologist]

I have had lots of clean races at Kyoto tonight, but unfortunately this was not one of them. I found myself getting in altercations with the same set of driver three times. Each time, I received the worst of it... I'm not sure how I could have done anything, but am open to suggestions about how I could have changed the outcome to these incidents. Each incident is shown twice, first from roof cam view (the view I raced in), and chase cam view.

Incident 1: I got a good run on the start of the race. I kept my car low in the corner hoping ebleonard99 would slip up, as it is fairly often that cars overdrive that corner. He immediately slammed the door on me, causing me to hit the grass and spin out. I think this is the only incident I might be at fault at, it's a little aggressive but there's more than enough room at Kyoto's turn one. (In general, I usually take it easy at turn one at all tracks, but I like to be more aggressive at Kyoto with all the racing room). Is it too aggressive?

Incident 2: I caught ebleonard99 as he was racing Id_Lawtisk. ebleonard99 completes the pass on them and simultaneously me and Id_Lawtisk take the dude three wide. Once I realize we are three wide, I back out and race Id_Lawtisk to the corner. Once again the door is slammed on me (But this time my entire car was alongside, not my bumper) causing me to hit the grass and spin out. I don't think this one is my fault at all, I have no idea what he was doing.

Incident 3: ebleonard99 catches back up to me after I have passed him. I slightly overdrive the chicane because of tire wear, he flys to my inside and gives me no room (I'm crowded into the curb) hits me, causing me to get into the grass and spin out. I'm not sure who is at fault here, sure I overran the corner a little, but he didn't even give me a lane. I can't magically disappear, where do I go?

I appreciate your feedback. Please no name shaming to anyone involved, I'd like discussion on who is at fault and no more. This race was a Dr B, Sr S race, feel free to check my kudoprime statistics in my signature.

 

[DriftMethod]

First incident, I think you were at fault. Other driver did turn in quickly, but you didn't have enough overlap and it's not a long enough braking zone where you can outbrake from your position. You were hoping they would make a mistake and go wide, but didn't leave yourself an escape when they didn't.

The other two I won't comment on since I don't know the track well enough to make a judgement. I don't race here often and incidents like this are one reason why. Wide tracks with fairly high speed sections that funnel into tight chicanes are prone to accidents. Thanks for sharing the video and looking for feedback.

 

[Meggle]

Yours
Theirs
Theirs

 

[Phoenixsui]

First is your faul i think, since you had no chace to get him there until he brakes to late. Just step back and get him with slipstream end of the croner. Or next braking zone.

Second one was his fault to not let you space. maybe he just did not see where you are in this 3 car battle if he didnt use outside camera.
In a battle like this it is very hard to be aware of all cars positions. Probably also there the 3 drivers should have gone in a line before entering the corners. There is way to much time loss by batteling like this.

Third was not your fault, but it was probabbly still only possible since you were braking way to late and therefore had such a slow racing line.
But definitly in this corners i never ever try to overtake someone. It is not ment for that. I never seen a fair overtake in this corners by anyone.

Most accidents happen, because players think they have to or have the right to overtake an opponent in every corner instead of waiting for a error. Players are no KI that can be easaly overtaken and give up the position automatically as soon as you make contact...

 

[TheNorfolkDad]

I think the first is yours, I would have fallen in behind and tried to get the better exit on the corner. The second and third I would say are theirs BUT they're trying to take advantage of you being on the wrong place on the track, which I would do probably do.

Are you a wheel or ds4 user? I reckon you could have received all three knocks and continued driving, it almost looks like you get hit then just let go of the steering wheel. If you're expecting another car to hit you you can usually control how much they put you off course

 

[Robben]

Same as others have said... incident one, you should have dropped back, that was his line (the racing line on that corner goes from the marshal post on the outside right, across to the inside left). The other two were careless/reckless driving by the other guys.

On a side note: your car spins very easily! I guess the Viper has such a long and heavy front end and so much power to the rear wheels....

 

[JacksHerer]

It would be interesting to know if those contact cars were using countersteer assist.

 

[TheNorfolkDad]

On a side note: your car spins very easily! I guess the Viper has such a long and heavy front end and so much power to the rear wheels....

Yeah you do have to be very gentle with the viper, she’s a little volatile.

But if you get a knock like that if you hold your steering and come off the throttle you won’t spin. I used to think the viper (both gr3 and gr4) were the hardest to drive but really enjoy it now

 

[TheGeologist]

The car doesn't spin that easy. The first two spins were due to the grass, and I believe they would have happened no matter the car.

The third spin, I should have saved. But in the moment I was so pissed off, that I kinda threw my hands up and yelled.

I agree the first incident was my fault, but I disagree the move is aggressive. I've pulled that move every Kyoto race and never had a driver so suddenly shut the door. It look like a little bit of lag upon review because he came down so fast and wasn't even affected by the hit.

Not sure about the cars that made contact, but I do not use CSA. I have never even tried it. They don't seem very affected by hitting me, so I'm not sure if lag played a role.

I am a wheel user.

 

[David Bailey]

First was you're fault but the others wern,t, saying that at the back of the pack you get the riff raff who race like their racing AI. Unless you qualify higher its a demolition derby, still its fun sometimes.

 

[Lord Grey]

I agree with the general assessments above. That said, I've been guilty of what the other person did in the third incident: The car in front loses it just a little bit, creates a space, and I dive for it before their car is either under control or completely out of the path. Too many times, their car careens around the track and wipes me out. I've learned to be a lot more cautious in those situations and wait just a moment before executing the pass. The delay pays off.

 

[Robben]

The car doesn't spin that easy. The first two spins were due to the grass, and I believe they would have happened no matter the car.

The third spin, I should have saved. But in the moment I was so pissed off, that I kinda threw my hands up and yelled.

I dunno... that's the reason I mentioned it - it looked strange to me, like in my experience I wouldn't expect to spin there 👍

 

[cleanLX]

Agree with all above.
2nd one, while I agree the contact was the responsibility of the other driver (NSX?)... in my opinion you made a poor decision to go 3 wide on approach to the chicane... especially given the retaliative speed neutrality of all 3 cars... Sometimes we get caught up in the "heat" and make those poor decisions (hind sight being what it is)... and, you likely know this now, but it would have been much better to concede those 2 positions (they would have to slow to fight for position, which would allow your to back off, enter slow and hammer down out of the chicane... I bet with the superior exit speed you could have cleanly gotten one of those spots prior to entry at the final right) and continue your race vs risk that move, and several other positions while recovering from a wreck.
This was either impatience, or, heat of the moment... either way, I've made those mistakes in the past as well... it's a hard way to learn, but, that's where I too have been.
The last one is bad luck, and poor driving on the BMW? part... he had all kinds of room, and could have scrubbed even more speed and still cleared you with ease. Unfortunate...

 

[TheGeologist]

Agree with all above.
2nd one, while I agree the contact was the responsibility of the other driver (NSX?)... in my opinion you made a poor decision to go 3 wide on approach to the chicane... especially given the retaliative speed neutrality of all 3 cars... Sometimes we get caught up in the "heat" and make those poor decisions (hind sight being what it is)... and, you likely know this now, but it would have been much better to concede those 2 positions (they would have to slow to fight for position, which would allow your to back off, enter slow and hammer down out of the chicane... I bet with the superior exit speed you could have cleanly gotten one of those spots prior to entry at the final right) and continue your race vs risk that move, and several other positions while recovering from a wreck.
This was either impatience, or, heat of the moment... either way, I've made those mistakes in the past as well... it's a hard way to learn, but, that's where I too have been.
The last one is bad luck, and poor driving on the BMW? part... he had all kinds of room, and could have scrubbed even more speed and still cleared you with ease. Unfortunate...

We entered the chicane 2 wide, not 3. We approached it 3 wide, but I was using the hood cam. I didn't know we were 3 wide. When I did, I backed out of it.

As you can see in the chase cam, me and the other driver both attempt to pass the BMW simultaneously. I wasn't immediately aware of the move while on my hood.

I guess it was just dumb luck.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

First was you're fault but the others wern,t, saying that at the back of the pack you get the riff raff who race like their racing AI. Unless you qualify higher its a demolition derby, still its fun sometimes.

Thats not all true. Especially with daily races. Some of the best clean racing i have had as been at the back of the pack. Everywhere on the grid has its moments. It just an assumption that people who are faster are more competent. On dailies i mostly never bother to qualify, starting near the back, only the odd race will have its moments.

 

[FANGIO JR90]

YOURS
THEIRS
YOURS

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The third incident is probably the most interesting one. You borked the line but the trailing driver should have capitalized by passing more to the outside as it was unreasonable for him to assume that you would not still aim for the apex. Did he expect you to just stay on the grass until he went by? Poor judgement on his part.

 

[Moglet]

I'd say the 1st was your fault, there was no way you were ever going to undertake there unless the BMW driver made a huge error, which he didn't.

The 2nd looks like it could have been a genuine error by the NSX driver as you see him swerve away quite violently just as he hits you. It's difficult to call, but I wouldn't say you were at fault there.

The 3rd is clearly the fault of the BMW driver, he should never have tried to make that gap. He basically did what you did at the start and tried to make it through a gap that was pretty much guaranteed to close on him. Maybe he was angry from your interaction earlier? You basically did the same thing to each other in the end!

 

[Rallywagon]

I wont add more to the incident side since I think others have pretty well covered that.

I will add though, after your first incident, you did a rather poor job of rentering the track. I understand you wanting to get back on track right away, but, you nearly scrubbed two other racers as you dropped back down on the race line. You should have either waited until they passed, or at the very least held a much higher line while getting back up to speed.

 

[TheNorfolkDad]

The 3rd is clearly the fault of the BMW driver, he should never have tried to make that gap. He basically did what you did at the start and tried to make it through a gap that was pretty much guaranteed to close on him. Maybe he was angry from your interaction earlier? You basically did the same thing to each other in the end!

I don’t agree entirely, he should not have have the leading car, that is wrong in every scenario. But if you were following and the car in front makes a mistake like that you wouldn’t attempt to capitalise?

 

[witham]

I dunno... that's the reason I mentioned it - it looked strange to me, like in my experience I wouldn't expect to spin there 👍

I thought the same I would have been disappointed not to have caught all of them, but as he said the last one is covered as he made no attempt to save it

 

[Crazy Taylor]

2nd and 3rd incident goes to show that them corners you would think you can only get 1 car in. Dont know why but on sport mode, common sense for some goes out of the window.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I don’t agree entirely, he should not have have the leading car, that is wrong in every scenario. But if you were following and the car in front makes a mistake like that you wouldn’t attempt to capitalise?

The trailing car was fine to attack but not on the inside racing line. He should have throttled off of the first turn to gain control and then swing wide of the second apex. When somebody scrubs their line you can't capitalize by driving through their line.

If I was the OP, I would be expecting the trailing car to attack the apex and hit me but, due to the rules of the game I would have to take the hit. If I go off track to avoid the car, I get a time penalty. If I slow down to dodge the car, I would just get me smashed by the other cars following through the turn. The least penalized choice would be for me to get back to the apex at a controlled speed to stay on the edge of the track, then if I received contact I'd probably be able to avoid a penalty while the attacking car would receive one. Gameplay wise, that seems like the smartest move.

 

[Mr616]

I don’t agree entirely, he should not have have the leading car, that is wrong in every scenario. But if you were following and the car in front makes a mistake like that you wouldn’t attempt to capitalise?

Look at the line the BMW takes. Was the OP supposed to vanish? Bare in mind the OP didn't leave the track.

This is the problem with virtual/online racing mentality. "He made a mistake and left room" does not mean, plough into the gap like a rhino and take your qualifying line while your at it.

I'm getting more and more disillusioned with how people interpret racing with other real people online.

That move would not be acceptable in a racing league, and if I had seen that move occur in my lobby, you would be kicked (unless I saw you give the position back, because mistakes are made, by everybody at some point).

 

[Moglet]

I don’t agree entirely, he should not have have the leading car, that is wrong in every scenario. But if you were following and the car in front makes a mistake like that you wouldn’t attempt to capitalise?

It depends how big the mistake is. If I see them fully leaving the track and they've got no chance of making it then sure, I'd go for it. If they just ran wide or took a different line I wouldn't be certain that I could make it without hitting them so would hold off from making the pass.

 

[Jamie Bbbbb]

First one was 100% your fault.
Second one was 0% your fault but you could have saved it if you had stopped accelerating and coasted/braked to stay on the track.
Third one is the same as the second - you could have saved it, but not your fault.

 

[cleanLX]

100% agree with @Mr616 ...
the BMW was far enough back to see the events unfold, had every opportunity to alter speed and line accordingly...
and instead chose to run a racing line "as if" alone on track.
therefore, 100% irresponsible, 100% fault.

 

[Moglet]

I will say though that he does at least appear to swerve to the left once he realises what is happening, so it may have just been a mistake.

 

[NevilleNobody]

Yours
Theirs
Theirs

THis. For sure this.

 

[TheNorfolkDad]

Look at the line the BMW takes. Was the OP supposed to vanish? Bare in mind the OP didn't leave the track.

This is the problem with virtual/online racing mentality. "He made a mistake and left room" does not mean, plough into the gap like a rhino and take your qualifying line while your at it.

I'm getting more and more disillusioned with how people interpret racing with other real people online.

That move would not be acceptable in a racing league, and if I had seen that move occur in my lobby, you would be kicked (unless I saw you give the position back, because mistakes are made, by everybody at some point).

I agree! He can’t just go for the racing line because the OP isn’t on it but I’m saying in that scenario a good driver would make the pass without hitting him.