Am i the only one with ABS off?

Christhedude: no your not alone there, I drive "almost" all of the cars without it as I feel weight transfer feels more natural. I do however have to turn the bias down on some cars for better petal feel, it can feel a bit too sensitive at times.

While we're on the topic of lack of abs, I would like to point out that the loss of grip during full front end lock up is just WRONG! Sure you lose grip, but if you've used all available traction through cornering and then massive lockup you should NOT be able to still steer your car around. Not to change the topic, but this pretty blatant flaw has been irking me since abs was defeatable.
 
Nothing for me anymore i used to have my ABS on 1 but i find the car feels so much better without it, makes every line through a corner that little bit better!
 
I have ABS on because I usually play with my DS3, and when I do play with my DFGT, I still have to have it on because I don't have a full blown stand for the pedals, and laying them flat on the floor causes me to overpressure the brake.
 
If anyone is wondering what ABS off is like with a driving force ex.

DON'T even try it.

The pedal spring is way to weak to control the brakes, especially when you go to hit them hard.

I would put a sping behind my pedal to do it, but since there is no dead zone adjustment in gt i'll loose about 15% of the total brakling capacity.

So yeah, PD has some work to do on dead zones, before i'll be using no abs.
 
If done correctly you can brake later and just as deep in to a corner as with ABS on
Braking into a corner means that your wheels will be traveling on different radiuses, and therefore different speeds. The slowest wheel - the inside front - is the first to lock up.
You cannot brake any harder than the front inside wheel's grip limit even if the other tires have grip left, otherwise the radius of your line gets bigger.
When ABS is on, the inside front is kept from locking, and the other 3 can brake closer to their limit without upsetting your line. You can extend your braking area deeper into the corner, which in turn allows for later braking.

The gap in efficiency between non-ABS(single awesome-braking wheel and 3 decent wheels) and ABS (1 good braker and 3 really good brakers) becomes smaller the lighter the car is and the stickier the tires are. But ABS always has higher average stopping power in a corner than non, even if it is by a small gap.

And even if disabled ABS were faster, its largely still not worth it. Since even the G25 has no feedback in the pedals, threshold braking is even more difficult than in real life, meaning even really good drivers will see time better spent practicing with ABS on. What good is struggling for a couple tenths when there's seconds elsewhere to be gained?
 
Offline- No ABS.... EVER

Online- I drive with ABS just because it's slightly more consistent and predictable when it comes to overtaking.
 
ABS is only there because you cant really Threshold Brake in a video game without force feedback pedals... I always end up trail breaking into a 90 and just totally bringing the rear around. Without ABS, I gotta drive waaay too defensively for my own good.

It's only there to make the game more playable.
 
Braking into a corner means that your wheels will be traveling on different radiuses, and therefore different speeds. The slowest wheel - the inside front - is the first to lock up.
You cannot brake any harder than the front inside wheel's grip limit even if the other tires have grip left, otherwise the radius of your line gets bigger.
When ABS is on, the inside front is kept from locking, and the other 3 can brake closer to their limit without upsetting your line. You can extend your braking area deeper into the corner, which in turn allows for later braking.

The gap in efficiency between non-ABS(single awesome-braking wheel and 3 decent wheels) and ABS (1 good braker and 3 really good brakers) becomes smaller the lighter the car is and the stickier the tires are. But ABS always has higher average stopping power in a corner than non, even if it is by a small gap.

And even if disabled ABS were faster, its largely still not worth it. Since even the G25 has no feedback in the pedals, threshold braking is even more difficult than in real life, meaning even really good drivers will see time better spent practicing with ABS on. What good is struggling for a couple tenths when there's seconds elsewhere to be gained?

What you describe has more to do with differentials than ABS.

And braking distance; You will always (on dry tarmac) have a longer braking distance using ABS, since the brakes are not applied all the time.
 
You will always (on dry tarmac) have a longer braking distance using ABS, since the brakes are not applied all the time.

A bit too much of a generalisation.

For real driving, it may be true that stopping distances for some people can be shorter without ABS. But this is only true for the very best drivers who have a real feel for the lock up point and are able to cadence brake effectively in emergency situations. For the vast majority of poeple ABS is a huge advantage.

And dry/wet conditions aren't really relevent to absolute stopping distance differences between ABS and non-ABS - If a driver can find 99.9999% of the absolute lock up point in the dry, he can find it in the wet just as well.



In GT5P, the claim of 'I'm more real because I drive without ABS' is silly as the linear nature of the braking and complete lack of feel/feedback is nothing like braking in a real car.
 
Because there is no G forces in the game,and ABS off is the more challenging way to drive,thats why it stays 0.Just like clutch on and incar view.For me thats a sim setup.
 
i just got my g25 last thursday and i'm driving with no asm, no tcs but i've got my abs set to 1. clutch/6speed.

gt5p is a boatload more fun with a g25... now if i could just get my friends to stop coming over to my aptarment, hogging my setup.

one question though, when the car i'm driving has a 7th gear, what the heck am i supposed to do?
 
^ If you want to use clutch,make it a 6 gear car/shorter 'Final gear',top speed on 6th.Otherwise sequential mode.
edit:shorter
 
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^ I figured as much, I'll just have to avoid the 7-gear cars I suppose. Not a big deal for me, but it can be a pain when I have friends over who not only switch to automatic every time, but select cars with 7 speed transmissions. I wish PD would refine the online interface a little more so I can more easily switch options/cars.

Either that, or I should make house rules.... must use 6-speed with clutch or no play. heh heh. I'd get more seat time and less friends.
 
Because there is no G forces in the game,and ABS off is the more challenging way to drive,thats why it stays 0.Just like clutch on and incar view.For me thats a sim setup.

Sim is clearly a relative term... the way the brakes work in GT5P with the pedal sets currently available is in no way a simulation of real braking... or does you car have a brake pedal that feels like a throttle pedal?
 
Sim is clearly a relative term... the way the brakes work in GT5P with the pedal sets currently available is in no way a simulation of real braking... or does you car have a brake pedal that feels like a throttle pedal?
Actually, my car (a Volvo V40) has virtually identical feel in all three pedals, at least till you get to proper emergency stop levels of braking. It's designed that way. There's no feel in the steering either, so bizarrely enough driving in GT feels a lot more like driving a car than driving my car.
 
A lot depends upon the cars initial braking qualities , sometimes NO , sometimes set on 1
 
after reading this post, and turning abs off, i realized its a lot more fun with it off. It was getting pretty board as it was. So going back and trying each car with Abs off is pretty fun. I even beet a few set lap times. Every one should try it on a few of the favorite cars.

It helps you to learn better braking points...I personaly think you stop faster this way.
 
In GT5P, the claim of 'I'm more real because I drive without ABS' is silly as the linear nature of the braking and complete lack of feel/feedback is nothing like braking in a real car.

Sure its not a proper sim of real braking due to the limitations of the current hardware (bring on G26 with Force Feedback pedals! :D ) but i would say its more real than driving with ABS. Not from feel, but from experiance, knowing how far you can push your brakes at any given time, getting the most out of the brakes and properly transfering weight from braking to turning to accel and blending the three into smooth motions. Theres more depth to running without ABS and adds alot to the braking portion of the game IMO.
 
@ Stotty,its not about how the pedal feels,its never as in real car.You just set it to 0,as you set transmission to manual,to get more challenge out of this game.No fear factor involved,replaced by most difficult way to drive these cars.Thats 'simulation' to me. And this is not about faster sector times,just what feels 'right'.
 
Sure its not a proper sim of real braking due to the limitations of the current hardware (bring on G26 with Force Feedback pedals! :D ) but i would say its more real than driving with ABS. Not from feel, but from experiance, knowing how far you can push your brakes at any given time, getting the most out of the brakes and properly transfering weight from braking to turning to accel and blending the three into smooth motions. Theres more depth to running without ABS and adds alot to the braking portion of the game IMO.

Lion-Face, do you heel-toe as well, and if so then how do you control the pressure on the brake pedal while heel-toeing?

Thanks!
 
A bit too much of a generalisation.

For real driving, it may be true that stopping distances for some people can be shorter without ABS. But this is only true for the very best drivers who have a real feel for the lock up point and are able to cadence brake effectively in emergency situations. For the vast majority of poeple ABS is a huge advantage.

And dry/wet conditions aren't really relevent to absolute stopping distance differences between ABS and non-ABS - If a driver can find 99.9999% of the absolute lock up point in the dry, he can find it in the wet just as well.



In GT5P, the claim of 'I'm more real because I drive without ABS' is silly as the linear nature of the braking and complete lack of feel/feedback is nothing like braking in a real car.

Of course it was a generalisation, but AsteroidSHDTV said;
"Your car will be faster *over the course of a lap* with ABS on if you have your brake bias set properly (or probably even if its not).
ABS-off gives you a shorter total braking time, but ABS allows you to brake later and further into a corner - which is more important."
And that is even more of a generalisation, wich is what I was setting an argument against.
I for one don´t have any problems with finding the braking limit on the cars in GT5:P, but that´s beside any point. There are always different techniques of braking, ABS or not. It´s a matter of individual style IMO.

Like you say, for real driving it may be true that ABS is the slow way, and the same applies for games aswell, feel or not.
I am faster without any driveraids, but that doesn´t mean that everybody is.
 
ABS is only there because you cant really Threshold Brake in a video game without force feedback pedals... I always end up trail breaking into a 90 and just totally bringing the rear around. Without ABS, I gotta drive waaay too defensively for my own good.

It's only there to make the game more playable.

Yes I agree. I tried running the Ferrari California in the expert Ferrari Challenge race with no ABS and ended up locking the rear brakes on turn in way too much.
 
Lion-Face, do you heel-toe as well, and if so then how do you control the pressure on the brake pedal while heel-toeing?

Thanks!

No, thats the next thing i've got to learn, my current setup wont allow for it. And the few times i've attempted it, the biggest problem appears to be keeping the braking at the correct level as you go to blip...but i guess it just comes down to practice.

mad94d
Yes I agree. I tried running the Ferrari California in the expert Ferrari Challenge race with no ABS and ended up locking the rear brakes on turn in way too much.

Did you change your brake bias? I run the Ferrari F40 brake bias 3front, 1rear. Generally i use those settings for the other Ferrari's too as a base before i start to tweak them. If your running No ABS, its a safe start and you can almost use full range of brake going into a corner.

Also, if your used to running WITH abs on, then you'll have to learn a new way to drive when you turn it off. You brake hard initially, and depending on the corner, start to lift off the brake, turn in and continue to lift off the brake as you go through the corner. You can't brake in the middle of a corner cos the ABS isnt there to save you, you have to be very smooth and transition the weight slowly or else you'll be off.
 
No, thats the next thing i've got to learn, my current setup wont allow for it. And the few times i've attempted it, the biggest problem appears to be keeping the braking at the correct level as you go to blip...but i guess it just comes down to practice.



Did you change your brake bias? I run the Ferrari F40 brake bias 3front, 1rear. Generally i use those settings for the other Ferrari's too as a base before i start to tweak them. If your running No ABS, its a safe start and you can almost use full range of brake going into a corner.

Also, if your used to running WITH abs on, then you'll have to learn a new way to drive when you turn it off. You brake hard initially, and depending on the corner, start to lift off the brake, turn in and continue to lift off the brake as you go through the corner. You can't brake in the middle of a corner cos the ABS isnt there to save you, you have to be very smooth and transition the weight slowly or else you'll be off.

Thanks for the advice. I was using brake bias 5 at the front and 4 at the rear. It was too easy to lock the rears. I'm now driving with three at the front and 1 at the back and it's a lot easier. I now drive all online races without abs. Thanks for the advice.
 
I dont think we should consider ABS so much as a preference but as a setup, some cars or track one may wish to have it on while in other situations it may be faster without... unfortunately i havent been able to test no ABS, hopefully when i get home ill do alot of testing on different tracks.
 

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