- 3,052
ledhed
That's funny.
If only we could find the perfect balance between equity and efficiency...
America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
- 39,446 comments
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That's funny.
If only we could find the perfect balance between equity and efficiency...
- 1,766
I guess being fat in the USA isn't such a bad thing, at least you'll be floating whenever another levee which lacked maintenance breaks. I'm sure all the skinny ones in N.O. wished they were fat.
Sorry, that was a harsh joke, but now back to seriousness...
Of course not all Americans are fat, but it is the country of extremes. That's how the system works, how the mentality is. On one side you're constantly stimulated to eat loads. You can order food with Big meals, king size meals, mega meals, and pig-out meals... If you order ice cream you can't buy it with little cups, you have to get half a liter at a time, at least. Over here in Europe that would be the biggest size.
On the other hand there's this constant pressure to lose weight. One side of the industry is pushing people to eat a lot, while another industry is pushing people to lose their weight. So you either have loads of really fat people, and loads of really skinny ones who are complete health freaks. The average American is more fat than people in any other nation are though.
By the way, anyone generalizing by nationality, no matter where they're from, shows how stupid he himself is. When you have millions of people you just know that they aren't all alike. Especially in a multi cultural society like the USA.
Sorry, that was a harsh joke, but now back to seriousness...
Of course not all Americans are fat, but it is the country of extremes. That's how the system works, how the mentality is. On one side you're constantly stimulated to eat loads. You can order food with Big meals, king size meals, mega meals, and pig-out meals... If you order ice cream you can't buy it with little cups, you have to get half a liter at a time, at least. Over here in Europe that would be the biggest size.
On the other hand there's this constant pressure to lose weight. One side of the industry is pushing people to eat a lot, while another industry is pushing people to lose their weight. So you either have loads of really fat people, and loads of really skinny ones who are complete health freaks. The average American is more fat than people in any other nation are though.
By the way, anyone generalizing by nationality, no matter where they're from, shows how stupid he himself is. When you have millions of people you just know that they aren't all alike. Especially in a multi cultural society like the USA.
- 383
Swift
YES, I did read Foolkiller's post HOWEVER I was responding to YOUR post.
- 383
smellysocks12
Do you not watch TV or films, read newspapers, books or the internet?
You are aware of the word stereotype? The media's full of them and so are people's conceptions - justified or not.
- 1,766
A stereotype is a stereotype, it is exactly what it is, it isn't supposed to be taken literally. By the way there isn't a 'stereotype American'. There are stereotype 'African Americans' or stereotype 'hillbillies'... but Americans are too diverse to have a stereotype of.
- 3,052
danoff
Really? Then why isn't working?
- 2,093
smellysocks12
Rest assured though that a fair number of Europeans aren't that 'refined' - they'll have a limited view of them and often venture into creating one single stereotype, however pointless that is. But it goes together with people trying to form an idea of what can be considered 'American', to which 'an American' is a complementary image.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
I heard something about this on a local radio show last night. They had some woman on as a guest, but I didn't catch her name because I came in mid-interview. She was saying that while anti-Americanism seems wide spread and very predominant in the media that when talking to people from other countries, especially in the poorer countries, not long after they insult Americans they will ask about getting a visa or citizenship and moving to the country.
She was of the opinion that while it is trendy and common to make fun of America that the American dream is still alive envied by others.
I found that as a somewhat different look at the subject. It also kind of fits in with what I was saying about teh exchange students I met in college. They hated America but still came here to study for a semester or sometimes a year. By the time they left they were taling about trying to come back for at least a visit and had email addresses and phone numbers from the American students.
My brother has a friend from Malaysia that he met in school who came to America for school and then decided to get his citizenship and stay. I was actually with them the day he bought his first ever pair of Nikes. He looked like a kid on Christmas.
She was of the opinion that while it is trendy and common to make fun of America that the American dream is still alive envied by others.
I found that as a somewhat different look at the subject. It also kind of fits in with what I was saying about teh exchange students I met in college. They hated America but still came here to study for a semester or sometimes a year. By the time they left they were taling about trying to come back for at least a visit and had email addresses and phone numbers from the American students.
My brother has a friend from Malaysia that he met in school who came to America for school and then decided to get his citizenship and stay. I was actually with them the day he bought his first ever pair of Nikes. He looked like a kid on Christmas.
- 1,766
SwiftAnd that's exactly the kind of gross hypocracy that I'm talking about. "America Sucks! Hey, do you know a quick way to get a Visa?"Come on...
That is bull****. I would never trade places with an American, neither would most Europeans. None of the ones I know, that's for sure. One of my friends stayed in Florida for half a year and was glad to return back to Europe.
Americans really like to beat themselves on the chest constantly, acting like everyone thinks that the USA is the best place to live. It is not, maybe if you're a multi-millionaire it is, but otherwise it isn't.
Really a reliable source, some forum poster who you don't know who heard a woman whose name he didn't catch say it on the radio.
- 3,425
I would much rather be poor in the US than anyplace else . At least in the US you have a better than average chance to get out of being poor if you start off that way . But then again I have never been poor in any other country...whats the chances of getting a survey of " poor'" people who have been " poor" in more than one country ?
Every one doesnt think the US is the best place to live...thank God ....its crowded enough because a large amount of people do want to come here ...imagine if EVERYONE wanted to..talk about atraffic jam..
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
smellysocks12Really a reliable source, some forum poster who you don't know who heard a woman whose name he didn't catch say it on the radio.
It's an example. I didn't site it as a definite source. I used it as an example of the hypocracy that a lot of people have towards the US.
And the reason that a lot of people want to come to the USA(mostly poor) is because they can start with nothing and have a lot. In many countries in the world that is impossible, as Ledhed mentioned.
I'm not saying that you or anyone else is chomping at the bit to get over here. What I'm saying is that Ellis Island exists for a reason. There was an unbelievable influx of people from other countries to the USA. Is that because it sucks? For some reason I'm thinking no.
- 1,766
ledhed
If it is easier to get out of poverty in the USA, then why is the percentage of poor people in America higher on average than in any Western European country or wealthy Asian country? Do these people like to be poor?
It is a fact that social security is arranged in a much better way in most European countries and countries like Japan. Good education is available at a reasonable price for everyone. Even public colleges are too expensive in the USA for most poor people. A large amount of people, most likely just as large as the ones trying to enter America, are trying to get into Europe. But if you think that people in western Europe or Japan are craving to go to the USA, you're plain wrong. It's simple like that. Now south Americans, middle Americans and Africans, that's a whole other story. They want to go to any place that is wealthy, whether it's America or Europe.
If there would be a decent educational system in the USA having these immigrants enter the country wouldn't even be a big problem. They would add their share to the nation's production and pay their education back with their income tax. But with the current state of the American educational system they want go there with the idea that it is paradise, getting slapped in the face by reality showing that they're doomed to resort to welfare and crime to survive, once actually entering the country.
- 1,766
Swift
You can't start with nothing and have a lot in the USA. Why do you think a lot of people are still living in ghettos? Because they don't want to make something out of their lives? The only way for many people get out of that life is being either a good rapper (or just a rapper with a good marketing team behind you), or being good at sports. You'd have to be exceptionally good at something to get out of that life. There might be many possible geniuses "slinging crack on the corner" as we speak, because that is all they know, since no better opportunities have presented themselves while they were growing up.
The reason why a lot of people want to enter the USA is because they THINK they can start with nothing and have a lot, which isn't how it is. If this would be reality them entering the country wouldn't be the problem. They would add to society, but the way the system works now that isn't the case.
- 1,766
danoff
With better I mean more equal. Not complete equality, which would be the utopia for any communist, but at least equal chances for everyone to make something out of your life. Why would you deserve to study at Harvard because you have rich parents, while a more intelligent person from a poor family is not allowed to get his / her degree there?
- 1,766
danoff
Not completely impossible, but a lot harder for someone who is poor, since it will still cost you a fortune in the USA. They would have to get 2 jobs at the side, spending valuable time which could be spent on studying on flipping burgers or cleaning toilets.
But whatever, I'm sensing a deja vu, I've had this discussion with you before and I can already tell that it's going to lead to the "taxes are stealing" idea, so I'm not even going to bother trying to change your mind / views.
Danoff
Premium
- 34,019
- Mile High City
smellysocks12
More equal is less fair.
The person with the rich parents doesn't deserve to go to harvard more than anyone else. His/her parents deserve to be able to send their child to harvard more than other parents because they have produced more.
But smart kids can get scholarships to harvard too.
Danoff
Premium
- 34,019
- Mile High City
smellysocks12
Are we talking about highschoolers or immigrants?
Adults, who have to provide for themselves, will have to do so while studying for (or funding) school. That makes sense to me. If they want people to provide a service to them (instruction) they should compensate those people for that service.
Children on the otherhand can't even work in this country until 16 years old. They can already have a full scholarship to college by then.
- 1,766
Like I said we obviously disagree about this topic and I'm not going to change my opinion, which is that any kid should be able to get the education he wants to when capable to do so and willing to work for it. Who their parents are shouldn't matter. Having a headstart because of having rich parents is unfair in my opinion, since nobody could pick their parents.
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
smellysocks12
And by this statement you show that you know NOTHING about the scholarship programs in the USA. Do you know how many people are turned down for help because they make TOO MUCH money?
This country is the place you can start with nothing and have a whole lot if you're willing to work for it. Plain and simple.
You say people don't want to live in the ghettos. That's true, but they also, for the most part are unwilling make the effort that it takes to get out of said situation. Be a rapper or a pro athlete? How about score above 800 on the SAT's? How about apply for some grants and scholarships to get an education. Nope, I'm going to bet the farm on becoming a pro athlete. I'm not saying I came from the ghetto. But my parents DID. My father grew up in one of the poorest parts of Philidelphia at the time. He now owns a 5 bedroom house, 2 cars and 1/4 an acre of land. Not including his investments. He didn't have rich parents paving the way for him. Infact his father died when he was 14 and his mother when he was 22. So, it was HIM that did the work to get to where he is.
Don't lay this, "You've got to be rich to get ahead in America" line on me. Because it's simply not true.
- 1,766
I get your point, but personally I don't believe education should be decided by the amount of money parents are willing to pay to get their kids enrolled. It should be decided by the willingness of the students to study. The parents' task is to take care of their children by motivating them to want to work for their education. I just hate to see a spot in a university go to waste because of some lazy bastard who is only enrolled because of his parents' financial situation. It's a waste of time for the professors and a waste of a spot in the classroom, in which a smart child from a less fortunate family could have been.
And about fairness. I don't think someone who has a lot of money produced more. Just like with being born in a family, also luck plays a large part in it. Whether it's good luck by winning the lottery, or losing all your money with a bad investment. Not to mention inheritages and money earned by crime (including fraud).
And about fairness. I don't think someone who has a lot of money produced more. Just like with being born in a family, also luck plays a large part in it. Whether it's good luck by winning the lottery, or losing all your money with a bad investment. Not to mention inheritages and money earned by crime (including fraud).
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
smellysocks12
Then what's the point of earning money and providing for your children? I'm serious. If I can afford to send my child to Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Princton, Yale, MIT or any of those prestigous schools I'm going to do it. Should they have a desire to study what those schools specialize in.
You say it's unfair that just because the parents had money they could get their child into say, Notre Dame, but the other child could only get enough for say the local state university. That's excellent. It gives the student an oppurtunity. Besides, more money doesn't always mean better education.
- 1,766
Swift
Yeah, probably too many people get turned down for fincancial help to get their kids through college.
About your own personal history, yes it IS possible to get to a higher level in the USA if you're willing to work for it, but it's too hard for most people when they are poor. I never said that the USA is the most inequal place on earth. Your father is probably an exception of the rule and really went down a long road to get where he is now.
If it is because people are lazy that they're still living in the ghetto, then why do you guys in the States still have ghettos, but we in Europe do not? Are Americans more lazy? No they aren't, we're all built the same way, we're all people.
I think it's better when a government spends money on pulling some more people over the line, to have them get a good education / future to keep them from crime / bumming around, than spending that same money on arresting these people and keeping them in prisons.
People should be willing to put in effort to get somewhere, but not everyone thinks the same way, so when it seems like it's too hard to get somewhere many people will give up, while a few exceptions like your father continue to struggle to get higher up there. To put it in metaphor form: Instead of spending money on having police arrest those who are trying to pull themselves higher up by grabbing the ankles of are already higher onto the hill, the same money should be spent on bulldozers to help making the hill less steep.
Swift
Of course you should save money to try and get your children the best education they can get. That's how the current system works, you have to play by the rules. This doesn't mean that the current system shouldn't be improved though.
And you are right that more money doesn't mean that the education you get is better. But degrees from some universities simply have more prestige, making it easier to get your foot in the door of a company.... whether or not you're better at what you do.
