America - The Official Thread

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You mean deliberately misleading by copying and pasting the actual headline word for word and then embedding a link inside of it to the article? Being deliberately misleading is a serious offense around here. I would like to see what evidence you have for that.

I'd start here:

NK appears to be dismantling nuclear facilities

What your link actually says is this:

The Globe and Mail
Harris said the transfer, as well as the North’s perceived closing of a missile engine testing site, would be an “important sign” to show Kim’s sincerity about denuclearisation, Moon’s office said.

It doesn't specify that the site was related to nuclear weapons at all. (And in fact, the Guardian is saying it was a launch site for satellites, not weapons.) Even if the engines tested there were ultimately intended for weapons, calling it a "nuclear facility" is a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?
 
Two things;
1. You might find this useful
2. If I had a grievance with you breaking the rules I'd present my evidence to a moderator or admin.
And that's what you should have done because then I wouldn't know about it nor would anyone else. Instead you post a baseless accusation here for everyone to see and you can't throw out baseless accusations here. So if you're going to suggest I'm doing things that are deliberately misleading then you better have some proof otherwise delete the claim and apologize.
I'd start here:



What your link actually says is this:



It doesn't specify that the site was related to nuclear weapons at all. (And in fact, the Guardian is saying it was a launch site for satellites, not weapons.) Even if the engines tested there were ultimately intended for weapons, calling it a "nuclear facility" is a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?
What my link from the North Korea thread where I posted it actually is:
In an important first step towards fulfilling a commitment made by Kim Jong Un at the June 12 Singapore Summit, new commercial satellite imagery of the Sohae Satellite Launching Station (North Korea’s main satellite launch facility since 2012) indicates that the North has begun dismantling key facilities. Most notably, these include the rail-mounted processing building—where space launch vehicles are prepared before moving them to the launch pad—and the nearby rocket engine test stand used to develop liquid-fuel engines for ballistic missiles and space launch vehicles. Since these facilities are believed to have played an important role in the development of technologies for the North’s intercontinental ballistic missile program, these efforts represent a significant confidence building measure on the part of North Korea.
 
I actually asked a question
That is untrue. There is no question mark in that post. You made the suggestion that I might be deliberately misleading with my post. Don't hide behind semantics. Own it.
 
What my link from the North Korea thread where I posted it actually is:

Apologies, I didn’t realize you were referring to a link in a different thread; it would indeed appear that engines tested there were intended to carry warheads.

I still stand by my second point; saying that NK has dismantled “nuclear facilities” strikes me as a bit misleading; it seems to imply something a little more directly related to the production of uranium or actual warheads. The site where they tested the engines of the missiles doesn’t strike me as that big of a victory. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out to be a site they didn’t even need anymore, like the weapon test site they made a big show of destroying two months ago.

–––

That is untrue. There is no question mark in that post. You made the suggestion that I might be deliberately misleading with my post. Don't hide behind semantics. Own it.

Oh, come on man. This wasn’t even two hours ago:

How is that deliberately misleading.
 
That is untrue. There is no question mark in that post. You made the suggestion that I might be deliberately misleading with my post. Don't hide behind semantics. Own it.

It wasn't a question aimed at you.
As I've alluded too, I don't think you have a very high level of comprehension, but I couldn't allow your pro-Trump propaganda go unchallenged.
 
It wasn't a question aimed at you.
As I've alluded too, I don't think you have a very high level of comprehension, but I couldn't allow your pro-Trump propaganda go unchallenged.

We can keep things nicer than that, can’t we? I think Johnny certainly reads his news with a bias (as do a lot of people), but that doesn’t mean we need to insult his intelligence.

We’ve all got things to contribute here, let’s be friendlier than that about it, yeah? :cheers:
 
We can keep things nicer than that, can’t we? I think Johnny certainly reads his news with a bias (as do a lot of people), but that doesn’t mean we need to insult his intelligence.

We’ve all got things to contribute here, let’s be friendlier than that about it, yeah? :cheers:
I think I've tried to be pretty friendly and helpful, but he willfully refuses to read posts and instead just regurgitates propaganda without actually understanding it.
 
It wasn't a question aimed at you.
As I've alluded too, I don't think you have a very high level of comprehension, but I couldn't allow your pro-Trump propaganda go unchallenged.
So this isn't aimed at me? Comprehension issues indeed. And it wasn't a question, it was a statement. Keep the personal insults to yourself.
upload_2018-7-26_18-23-16.png

So I'll go right back to where I started. Do you have any evidence that I'm deliberately misleading?
 
He wasn’t talking about the articles but the job well done by trump or “all in a weeks work”. He hasn’t done anything useful this week did he?
Do you know the other 1000 things Trump does everyday?
Your bias is showing, we don't know 1/100th of the things he gets briefed on or the things he actually does. All we know is the BS the MSM wants us to know.
I gotta find the video of over 100 stations nationwide spewing the same BS word for word.
Guess what that is called? Brainwashing!
You notice no one protests till the news makes it seem like the world is going to end. It's been over a year and a half, we're still here, NK hasn't taken us to war, nor Iran.
Just like the evening news I just watched, OMG the US is going to collapse under the tariffs!
No it won't, after the markets steady I'll bet my Honda we'll be better off and prices will lower.
Guess what it can actually be cheaper to make our own stuff not to mention the shipping over seas costs.
And if all else fails, we can trade with another country. For example in the new EU thing I heard they are trying to get China's soy or whatever bean products agreement with us. A plus plus for both!
Y'all need to stop relying on the news and links for everything and actually think about things, not blindly crying every time the news finds some stupid thing to complain about.
 
No it won't, after the markets steady I'll bet my Honda we'll be better off and prices will lower.
Guess what it can actually be cheaper to make our own stuff not to mention the shipping over seas costs.
And if all else fails, we can trade with another country. For example in the new EU thing I heard they are trying to get China's soy or whatever bean products agreement with us. A plus plus for both!
Y'all need to stop relying on the news and links for everything and actually think about things, not blindly crying every time the news finds some stupid thing to complain about.

While I agree the news does sensationalize things, history typically doesn't. Even looking back through the relatively recent history of the US, tariffs typically do more harm than good. One example is the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Pretty much any historian who's studied the Great Depression agrees that this Act prolonged the economic downturn.

It's also very hard to produce stuff in the US at the same cost as it is to produce it in China. American workers expect more money with benefits and other perks. That's not the case in China and things can and are manufactured significantly cheaper. This means companies can sell products at the same rate while making more money, this is better for investors and thus the economy. If they need to move production domestically, two things will happen, either the company will make less profit while still selling the goods at the same rate, or it'll pass along the additional cost to the buyer. If buyers can't afford the product any more the company will either start selling it elsewhere or go out of business, either way people lose their jobs.

The best way to run the economy is to let trade be completely free. This allows goods to get manufactured in areas where it's cheaper, which leads to investors making more money. From there, those investors will reinvest the money or buy additional goods with it which keeps the economy rolling.

Even Trump himself does this by manufacturing his clothing brand (along with his daughter's) overseas.

The US still makes a ton of stuff, however, it relies heavily on cheap materials from other countries.

The government should never interfere with attempting to artificially run the economy. If you need a reason why just look at the piss poor job it does running pretty much anything. Healthcare is a mess, social programs are out of control, we can't take care of veterans, the post office is always on the verge of bankruptcy, and even the debt is getting more out of control every day. Frankly, I want the government out of my life as much as possible because all its going to do is make living harder in some way while taking a stupid amount of money from me each paycheck. When @Danoff posted his tax thread, it made me actually look and see that I was paying more than my fair share of taxes each year and for what? So the government can continue to run the country into the ground?

And it's not just Republicans either, Democrats are ruining the country just as much. Both parties are beyond worthless and only serve whoever gives them the most money. Give me someone who wants to work for the people while understanding the limitations of the Constitution and letting me live my life.

Furthermore, the tariffs Trump put in place are unconstitutional. According to Article I, Section 8, only Congress has the power to levy tariffs. But, citing national security, Trump circumvented that despite nothing showing that countries where a true threat to national security to begin with - especially since some of the tariffs have been levied against longtime allies. This should concern anyone and people, as well as the courts, really should question the legality of the tariffs - which I firmly believe are illegal and an actual breach of power among the president instead of the narrative that he conspired with Russia.
 
While I agree the news does sensationalize things, history typically doesn't. Even looking back through the relatively recent history of the US, tariffs typically do more harm than good. One example is the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Pretty much any historian who's studied the Great Depression agrees that this Act prolonged the economic downturn.

It's also very hard to produce stuff in the US at the same cost as it is to produce it in China. American workers expect more money with benefits and other perks. That's not the case in China and things can and are manufactured significantly cheaper. This means companies can sell products at the same rate while making more money, this is better for investors and thus the economy. If they need to move production domestically, two things will happen, either the company will make less profit while still selling the goods at the same rate, or it'll pass along the additional cost to the buyer. If buyers can't afford the product any more the company will either start selling it elsewhere or go out of business, either way people lose their jobs.

The best way to run the economy is to let trade be completely free. This allows goods to get manufactured in areas where it's cheaper, which leads to investors making more money. From there, those investors will reinvest the money or buy additional goods with it which keeps the economy rolling.

Even Trump himself does this by manufacturing his clothing brand (along with his daughter's) overseas.

The US still makes a ton of stuff, however, it relies heavily on cheap materials from other countries.

The government should never interfere with attempting to artificially run the economy. If you need a reason why just look at the piss poor job it does running pretty much anything. Healthcare is a mess, social programs are out of control, we can't take care of veterans, the post office is always on the verge of bankruptcy, and even the debt is getting more out of control every day. Frankly, I want the government out of my life as much as possible because all its going to do is make living harder in some way while taking a stupid amount of money from me each paycheck. When @Danoff posted his tax thread, it made me actually look and see that I was paying more than my fair share of taxes each year and for what? So the government can continue to run the country into the ground?

And it's not just Republicans either, Democrats are ruining the country just as much. Both parties are beyond worthless and only serve whoever gives them the most money. Give me someone who wants to work for the people while understanding the limitations of the Constitution and letting me live my life.

Furthermore, the tariffs Trump put in place are unconstitutional. According to Article I, Section 8, only Congress has the power to levy tariffs. But, citing national security, Trump circumvented that despite nothing showing that countries where a true threat to national security to begin with - especially since some of the tariffs have been levied against longtime allies. This should concern anyone and people, as well as the courts, really should question the legality of the tariffs - which I firmly believe are illegal and an actual breach of power among the president instead of the narrative that he conspired with Russia.
Trade can never be completely free unless you have 100% peace all the time. We don't so you have to protect industries, like steel, that are vital to your self defense. The problem with China is they have higher tariffs than all western countries and they have significant non-tariff trade barriers and have a tendency to steal your technology and copy your designs. They are having their cake and eating it too essentially. The role of government should be to force them to get in line with the rest of the major powers they are trading with and IMO that's the end goal here.

There is no country in the world better set to engage in a trade war to enforce their will for freer and fairer trade upon the world. The U.S. is significantly less tied to international trade as a % of GDP than any other industrialized nation and by a significant amount. They are also completely energy independent, another significant advantage. As a % of GDP China is nearly 4x more invested in exporting to the U.S. than the U.S. is in exporting to China. Most western economies would collapse with a major hit to trade but the U.S. can soldier on quite well even with significant changes in trade volume.
 
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There is no country in the world better set to engage in a trade war to enforce their will for freer and fairer trade upon the world. The U.S. is significantly less tied to international trade as a % of GDP than any other industrialized nation and by a significant amount.
No doubt.

Take Canada for example. Trade with the US accounts for 20% of their economy*. I heard or read somewhere it accounts for only 2% of ours**. We can easily weather the storm of a trade war with Canada. One of our largest trading partners.

My opinion:
Trump is fully aware that these are trade wars, after all he started them. But he knows we can win.

The economy is booming here in the US right now. There is no better time to start twisting some arms with tariffs to break down existing, decades old, trade barriers that other countries have against the US.

Trump also knows that there are always casualties of war, that is what the support (bailout) for farmers is all about.

But this trade war, and the tariffs, won't last long. Other countries will have to capitulate in order to resume normalized trade with the US.

In the end the US will have much fairer trading deals, all thanks to that Cheeto with the bad combover in the White House.



* https://photos.state.gov/libraries/canada/303578/pdfs/us-canada-economic-relations-factsheet.pdf

** https://statista.com/statistics/258779/us-exports-as-a-percentage-of-gdp/
 
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Why aren't corporate subsidies ever treated as harshly when talking about that most dirty of US words, socialism?

Whether you agree with government-funded ventures or not, for some reason healthcare and education is dirty socialism but these incredible government subsidies, Tesla being a prime example, and bailing out farmers in advance of :censored:ing them over somehow isn't.

I know some people do like to refer to it as "corporate welfare" for balance and a little bit of sarcasm but there still seems to be an imbalance of opinion on that topic.
 
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Why aren't corporate subsidies ever treated as harshly when talking about that most dirty of US words, socialism?

Whether you agree with government-funded ventures or not, for some reason healthcare and education is dirty socialism but these incredible government subsidies, Tesla being a prime example, and bailing out farmers in advance of 🤬 them over somehow isn't.

I know some people do like to refer to it as "corporate welfare" for balance and a little bit of sarcasm but there still seems to be an imbalance of opinion on that topic.
We've strayed far from our Puritannical roots. Now we're as corrupt and decadent as anywhere else. Lobbyists and influence prevail. Money talks, big money shouts, and immortal corporations have more rights than any humans. But the end is near. Several of our biggest states are so indebted they are unable to pay the pensions of retired state employees.
 
Do you know the other 1000 things Trump does everyday?
Your bias is showing, we don't know 1/100th of the things he gets briefed on or the things he actually does. All we know is the BS the MSM wants us to know.
I gotta find the video of over 100 stations nationwide spewing the same BS word for word.
Guess what that is called? Brainwashing!
You notice no one protests till the news makes it seem like the world is going to end. It's been over a year and a half, we're still here, NK hasn't taken us to war, nor Iran.
Just like the evening news I just watched, OMG the US is going to collapse under the tariffs!
No it won't, after the markets steady I'll bet my Honda we'll be better off and prices will lower.
Guess what it can actually be cheaper to make our own stuff not to mention the shipping over seas costs.
And if all else fails, we can trade with another country. For example in the new EU thing I heard they are trying to get China's soy or whatever bean products agreement with us. A plus plus for both!
Y'all need to stop relying on the news and links for everything and actually think about things, not blindly crying every time the news finds some stupid thing to complain about.
Of the 1000 things, probaby 90% is golfing and tweeting

Of course I am biased. Trump has been spreading a message of hate and populism ever since he anounced his candicy.

I am dutch by the way. I mainly watch the dutch news, which apparantly has been brainwashed by too. But anyhow how is the tariff war been benefitial?
The farmers are getting a 12 billion dollar bailout because of a tariff war against china.... Guess what? That bailout money probably comes from China! So even if "better" tariffs are negotiated. China will be raking in that interest.

NK wasnt threatening the US with allout war.... It was Trump threatening "rocket man. But , to his credit, he did make first contact with NK which was positive... But you know what? The Obama administration tried negotiating with North Korea and was criticised heavily by the Republicans that you shouldnt negotiate with the enemy. Now Trump does the same he suddenly deserves a nobel prize? It is just weird.

China and europe was importing soy bean from america by the way. Please do some usefull research. EU is getting a better deal on soybean, only because China is getting their soybean from other countries mainly. Where does your "news" come from? Honda is a Japanese company by the way. Shouldnt you advocate for america first?

I did study in international trade. So as an chinese-dutch I have some insight. And the US is overplaying their hand. If China and EU really were as crazy as Trump, they could easily devastate the US economy by negotiating better tariffs between them.

Trade can never be completely free unless you have 100% peace all the time. We don't so you have to protect industries, like steel, that are vital to your self defense. The problem with China is they have higher tariffs than all western countries and they have significant non-tariff trade barriers and have a tendency to steal your technology and copy your designs. They are having their cake and eating it too essentially. The role of government should be to force them to get in line with the rest of the major powers they are trading with and IMO that's the end goal here.

There is no country in the world better set to engage in a trade war to enforce their will for freer and fairer trade upon the world. The U.S. is significantly less tied to international trade as a % of GDP than any other industrialized nation and by a significant amount. They are also completely energy independent, another significant advantage. As a % of GDP China is nearly 4x more invested in exporting to the U.S. than the U.S. is in exporting to China. Most western economies would collapse with a major hit to trade but the U.S. can soldier on quite well even with significant changes in trade volume.

On the Long term I am confident the US can be wholly selfsufficient... But in the short run overmanufacturing/overcapacity and hit the global economy and hit the jobmarket and economy of the US the hardest. China is a totalitarian regime and as such can move like a well oiled machine much better to pivot.

edit: added golf reference and answer to @Johnnypenso
 
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The role of government should be to force them to get in line with the rest of the major powers they are trading with and IMO that's the end goal here.

I very much disagree with this the. The role of the government should be as least intrusive as possible, mainly because like I said they are horrid at doing anything well. Forcing an economy, at least historically, has disastrous results.

As for not being about to have 100% free trade without peace, I'm not so sure about that. Would companies even do business with the enemy? I mean unless you're the US government who's the biggest arms dealer in the world, I can't see really any other company attempting to sell its wears in a country we're at war with. But the strangest part of these tariffs is that they are not even close to being in the name of national security. I can almost get China, but Canada and the EU? They are allies and if there was a global war, chances are we'd still trade with them.

I'm also still pretty hung up on the fact they aren't Constitutional since Congress didn't enact them, the president did by twisting some language in various Acts to make it seem like he could. I believe Obama did the same unconstitutional act back in 2010 (?) with tires from China and he should've been called on it. If I remember correctly it also cost some Americans their job.

Trump also knows that there are always casualties of war, that is what the support (bailout) for farmers is all about.

So Communism then? No company should ever receive a bailout. If a farmer is unable to sell their crop in the current market conditions they either need to switch what they're growing, sell their land, or redevelop their land for another use. The government should not prop up an industry that can't survive...even if that industry can't survive due to government actions. Let the farmers go bankrupt, chances are many of them are in the demographic that voted for Trump (at least when you look at rural votes for Trump vs. urban votes).

I do not want my tax dollars going to someone who can't make a living any more than I want my tax dollars going to fund a fruitless war, government healthcare, or even social security.
 
I very much disagree with this the. The role of the government should be as least intrusive as possible, mainly because like I said they are horrid at doing anything well. Forcing an economy, at least historically, has disastrous results.

As for not being about to have 100% free trade without peace, I'm not so sure about that. Would companies even do business with the enemy? I mean unless you're the US government who's the biggest arms dealer in the world, I can't see really any other company attempting to sell its wears in a country we're at war with. But the strangest part of these tariffs is that they are not even close to being in the name of national security. I can almost get China, but Canada and the EU? They are allies and if there was a global war, chances are we'd still trade with them.

I'm also still pretty hung up on the fact they aren't Constitutional since Congress didn't enact them, the president did by twisting some language in various Acts to make it seem like he could. I believe Obama did the same unconstitutional act back in 2010 (?) with tires from China and he should've been called on it. If I remember correctly it also cost some Americans their job.



So Communism then? No company should ever receive a bailout. If a farmer is unable to sell their crop in the current market conditions they either need to switch what they're growing, sell their land, or redevelop their land for another use. The government should not prop up an industry that can't survive...even if that industry can't survive due to government actions. Let the farmers go bankrupt, chances are many of them are in the demographic that voted for Trump (at least when you look at rural votes for Trump vs. urban votes).

I do not want my tax dollars going to someone who can't make a living any more than I want my tax dollars going to fund a fruitless war, government healthcare, or even social security.

For someone with a Volvo avatar You say the opposite what a swedish person would say.
 
Probably because I'm from America and just merely drive a Volvo that was built in Belgium and is mostly a Ford Mondeo.

:lol: I know, but most Volvo fans I know also have an affinity to Swedish culture. Quite a contrast to what your political beliefs. It was just an observation and nothing more.

So your current car is a V70? I used to drive a swedish Ford Focus (V50)and I must say Volvo's have the most comfortable seats I have ever driven in.
 
:lol: I know, but most Volvo fans I know also have an affinity to Swedish culture. Quite a contrast to what your political beliefs. It was just an observation and nothing more.

So your current car is a V70? I used to drive a swedish Ford Focus (V50)and I must say Volvo's have the most comfortable seats I have ever driven in.

S60. And while I like Swedish culture along with its products, the politics of Europe aren't for me.

Whew! I was pretty sure it made me a Nazi.

I bet you did not see that coming, eh?
 
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