America - The Official Thread

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Joey D
Wait, did Trump really comment on Area 51? Because the image I have is a bunch of generals in the Oval Office explaining to Trump what a Naruto Run is and having him think it's some left-wing conspiracy.
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I haven't heard of any Trump tweets on the subject of Area 51 - though I don't follow tweets at all closely. However, he did recently speak on camera to George Stephanopoulos and Tucker Carlson in successive weeks on the UFO/UAP subject, specifically the numerous Navy pilot encounters in the Atlantic and Pacific. I did not hear him mention anything about Area 51.
 
Joey D
Wait, did Trump really comment on Area 51? Because the image I have is a bunch of generals in the Oval Office explaining to Trump what a Naruto Run is and having him think it's some left-wing conspiracy.
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You’re not far off. Trump isn’t involved, but there are apparently some leaked photos from a USAF briefing to soldiers at the base about the “meme” and a slide of Naruto is in there. :lol:
 
While everyone here was worried about Trumps Tweet I believe Iran took hostage of two oil tankers.
 
Blitz24
Well obviously because the UK is "violating" Iran's sanctions on it and the US. :rolleyes:
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The whole thing has kicked off because someone within the British government decided that the UK should take custody of the Iranian vessel becuase it didn't meet EU regualtions despite it not needing to meet EU regualtions.

This is all likely connected to the US stance on the nuclear deal and I reckon (though could be wrong) that if Iran were to agree to a nuclear deal that wasn't limited to a relatively brief amount of time, the US would back off, the vessels would be realsed and Irans economy would no longer be on the brink of collapse.

I really don't have the foggiest why someone in our government decided to get involved and take custody of that first vessel though, it's just putting the UK in the middle and it seems very risky to me. Unsurpirisingly Iran has retaliated, tit-for-tat and there's a chance this could escalate into something bigger and worse.
 
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Dave A
I really don't have the foggiest why someone in our government decided to get involved and take custody of that first vessel though, it's just putting the UK in the middle and it seems very risky to me.
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IMO, on certain basic issues like war policy, your country dutifully obeys orders from my country. It's a special relationship.
 
Dotini
IMO, on certain basic issues like war policy, your country dutifully obeys orders from my country. It's a special relationship.
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Certain things, yes, this is probably one of those occasions, but going to war or something bigger is decided in parliment by votes which is why we didn't support Obama when he asked us to assist in Syria.
 
Dave A
Certain things, yes, this is probably one of those occasions, but going to war or something bigger is decided in parliment by votes which is why we didn't support Obama when he asked us to assist in Syria.
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Fair enough. But everlasting damage was already done when (greenlighted by the US) Germany, the UK and particularly France attacked, invaded and toppled the nation of Libya. The fleeting thrill of neoliberal ecstasy, smug piety, and gloating pride achieved when Gaddafi was disemboweled by sword thru the rectum has long since been vitiated by the persistent waves of immigrants and rightwing populism washing back and forth across the Continent.
 
Dotini
Fair enough. But everlasting damage was already done when (greenlighted by the US) Germany, the UK and particularly France attacked, invaded and toppled the nation of Libya. The fleeting thrill of neoliberal ecstasy, smug piety, and gloating pride achieved when Gaddafi was disemboweled by sword thru the rectum has long since been vitiated by the persistent waves of immigrants and rightwing populism washing back and forth across the Continent.
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I agree with that, and back to my earlier point there are most certainly influences within parliament that no doubt come from the US and may swing votes, but it's not a given that we will assist the US when asked. Likely we will in many cases due to our relationship and influence though.
 
Arent the "sources" his own tweets and video ogf his speech? He just keeps lying about the obvious.



These efforts to discredit and devide the democrate congress are discriminatory. The four women have their opinions, but still americans! Their "hatefull" things pale in comparison in what Trump utters on Twitter each day. How narcissistic can you get? Where in the hell can he say they hate the USA when they made so much effort to get elected for congress?

 
Dave A
This is all likely connected to the US stance on the nuclear deal and I reckon (though could be wrong) that if Iran were to agree to a nuclear deal that wasn't limited to a relatively brief amount of time, the US would back off, the vessels would be realsed and Irans economy would no longer be on the brink of collapse.
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Nah. It's not about getting a deal for the US. The deal that was in place was a perfectly acceptable short term solution, and a pathway to better relationships between Iran and the rest of the world and the possibility of a better deal and/or Iran not feeling like it needs nukes to defend itself in the first place.

Iran is well aware that any new deal with the US is just as likely to be violated at a whim as the last one. The US has no credibility as a bargaining partner at this point, and so there's no point even pretending to make a deal with them. The EU states have shown that they can't or won't go against the US when push comes to shove, even if there's an agreement otherwise already in place.

Iran's only real option at this point is the North Korean model; be scary enough that the US is willing to show some respect instead of simply dictating ridiculous terms. And let's be honest, it's working for North Korea far better than what Iran have going on now. Trump says KJU is his special friend and has meetings with him, despite him being nuclear equipped and highly provocative. Iran agreed to a limited set of nuclear restrictions with accompanying inspections and regulation, continued to comply with it for a year despite the US reneging on their side of the bargain, and still had it thrown in their face.

The US government, for whatever reason, has decided that Iran needs stomping again. Which is ironic, since most of the instability in Iran can be traced back to US meddling in foreign governments in the first place. Maybe the US has just decided that this is the next big war that they can use to justify their overblown military. I mean, if you're not fighting somewhere in the world it does start to raise questions about just why you're spending so much money on fighting men and equipment.
 
PocketZeven
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What's up with the "and Israel" bit? I mean, I know what he's referring to, but he has been going out of his way to consistently mention Israel throughout all of this. Why? It's like he's trying really hard to place a special connection in the minds of US voters between the US and Israel. It's really weird. I don't remember a US president ever taking this kind of position. I don't just mean a pro-Israel position, I mean being offended on their behalf and defensive of them against criticism.
 
Danoff
What's up with the "and Israel" bit? I mean, I know what he's referring to, but he has been going out of his way to consistently mention Israel throughout all of this. Why? It's like he's trying really hard to place a special connection in the minds of US voters between the US and Israel. It's really weird. I don't remember a US president ever taking this kind of position. I don't just mean a pro-Israel position, I mean being offended on their behalf and defensive of them against criticism.
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It doesn't strike me as defending Israel so much as using Israel as a weapon against his opposition, as if being critical of Israel and the relationship between Israel and the United States is indefensible.
 
PocketZeven
Arent the "sources" his own tweets and video ogf his speech? He just keeps lying about the obvious.



These efforts to discredit and devide the democrate congress are discriminatory. The four women have their opinions, but still americans! Their "hatefull" things pale in comparison in what Trump utters on Twitter each day. How narcissistic can you get? Where in the hell can he say they hate the USA when they made so much effort to get elected for congress?

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I’m surprised he didn’t quip “destroying the Democrat party” as a good thing. Might be the “nicest” thing he’s said about them.
 
Danoff
What's up with the "and Israel" bit? I mean, I know what he's referring to, but he has been going out of his way to consistently mention Israel throughout all of this. Why? It's like he's trying really hard to place a special connection in the minds of US voters between the US and Israel. It's really weird. I don't remember a US president ever taking this kind of position. I don't just mean a pro-Israel position, I mean being offended on their behalf and defensive of them against criticism.
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As for the why, I suspect it's because there's a LOT of support from American Jews and Christians for Israel, and so "supporting" it is easy votes. And at the risk of going full Omar, it wouldn't surprise me if there was money that was changing hands in a manner that was clearly and definitively not related to anything that Trump, the Republican party or the administration might have done or be going to do. Or maybe it's just that they're a major consumer of US military hardware.

To be fair to Trump, this isn't new for him. While he can be all over the joint sometimes in his statements and actions, he's been pretty consistent in his support of Israel. He's been aggressively pro-Israel since day one, with stuff like the movement of the US embassy to Jerusalem/recognition of Jerusalem as the capital and the recognition of the Golan Heights as part of Israel. Amusingly, it's a part of Israel that now has an area named Trump Heights, which I'm sure appeals to his ego.
 
Imari
As for the why, I suspect it's because there's a LOT of support from American Jews and Christians for Israel, and so "supporting" it is easy votes.
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But... I'm still just so confused.

The Jewish population is 2% of the US. So even if all of them wanted to see the US strongly supporting Israel, that still amounts to peanuts in the general election. I'd think it would easily be outweighed by the number of people who simply don't want to have anything to do with that region. Especially if you combine it with another population (say, Muslims) who perhaps are mostly actively anti-Israel.

So the take-home here is that somehow Christians seem to be in support of Israel and that this somehow appeals to the Christian vote. So we have to surmise that the Christian population prefers the Jews to be in charge of the holy land instead of the Muslims... and that they prefer this enough to think that it's worth our involvement in the middles east?

I just can't wrap my head around it.
 
Danoff
But... I'm still just so confused.

The Jewish population is 2% of the US. So even if all of them wanted to see the US strongly supporting Israel, that still amounts to peanuts in the general election. I'd think it would easily be outweighed by the number of people who simply don't want to have anything to do with that region. Especially if you combine it with another population (say, Muslims) who perhaps are mostly actively anti-Israel.

So the take-home here is that somehow Christians seem to be in support of Israel and that this somehow appeals to the Christian vote. So we have to surmise that the Christian population prefers the Jews to be in charge of the holy land instead of the Muslims... and that they prefer this enough to think that it's worth our involvement in the middles east?

I just can't wrap my head around it.
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I've been noticing these things for a while now.
I always felt like American policy was Israel first policy but Trump is really trying hard to let Israel know he's their guy. It's not just the US. Right wing parties in Europe have out of nowhere started telling their voters how Israel is great and how everybody should support Israel and anybody who doesn't is an anti-semite.
 
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Danoff
But... I'm still just so confused.

The Jewish population is 2% of the US. So even if all of them wanted to see the US strongly supporting Israel, that still amounts to peanuts in the general election. I'd think it would easily be outweighed by the number of people who simply don't want to have anything to do with that region. Especially if you combine it with another population (say, Muslims) who perhaps are mostly actively anti-Israel.

So the take-home here is that somehow Christians seem to be in support of Israel and that this somehow appeals to the Christian vote. So we have to surmise that the Christian population prefers the Jews to be in charge of the holy land instead of the Muslims... and that they prefer this enough to think that it's worth our involvement in the middles east?

I just can't wrap my head around it.
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You are overthinking it. Israel, as a state, routinely curtails the rights of their Muslim neighbors through vastly superior economic power and aggressive statecraft. It's basically "owning the libs" in a geopolitical sense. Conservatives love this reflexively. I would be willing to bet most conservatives have much more affinity towards Israel than they do California. It's not that they are a Jewish state, its that they are "fighting the good fight" (symbolic or otherwise) against the Muslims of the world, or at least the region. Supporting Israel is just a convenient way to express one's Islamophobia. Conservatives of the Trump variety are fundamentally disingenuous and cruel people, who's only real enjoyment in life is to impose their will on weaker people, but with a pretext of patriotic self righteousness as plausible deniability.

If you were to get a true reading of how many Trump voters would support absolute genocide against every Muslim on earth, I'm betting it would be disturbingly high.
 
I think it's more a Lobby thing, the Israeli Lobby is massive with CUFI and AIPAC they got enough money to influence everywhere, and when you combine that with Washington Establishment who will do anything for some sweet lobbyist money you get what happens now.

That's why getting corporate money out of politics is crucial to get rid of the cancer rotting the system.
 
McLaren
I’m surprised he didn’t quip “destroying the Democrat party” as a good thing. Might be the “nicest” thing he’s said about them.
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These posts werent about dems or republicans.

You can expect crazy Pro-trump people are going to make lives difficult for these hardworking women. Probably even life threatening dangerous. Accusing them of "hating"america is going to blow a fuse in some people.
 
PocketZeven
These posts werent about dems or republicans.

You can expect crazy Pro-trump people are going to make lives difficult for these hardworking women. Probably even life threatening dangerous. Accusing them of "hating"america is going to blow a fuse in some people.
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I'm sorry, but two of them are going to have some blame themselves for a difficult life when AOC & Omar have had their own party upset with them over other issues.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
You are overthinking it. Israel, as a state, routinely curtails the rights of their Muslim neighbors through vastly superior economic power and aggressive statecraft. It's basically "owning the libs" in a geopolitical sense. Conservatives love this reflexively. I would be willing to bet most conservatives have much more affinity towards Israel than they do California. It's not that they are a Jewish state, its that they are "fighting the good fight" (symbolic or otherwise) against the Muslims of the world, or at least the region. Supporting Israel is just a convenient way to express one's Islamophobia. Conservatives of the Trump variety are fundamentally disingenuous and cruel people, who's only real enjoyment in life is to impose their will on weaker people, but with a pretext of patriotic self righteousness as plausible deniability.

If you were to get a true reading of how many Trump voters would support absolute genocide against every Muslim on earth, I'm betting it would be disturbingly high.
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I'm not so sure that you're right. It might be simpler than that really.

Christians don't want to live in Israel (generally). But they do want people that mostly look white to be in charge over there, in a place that's important to them for their religion. So that they'll be able to visit and be around people that don't look scary.

I think that might be it.
 
McLaren
I'm sorry, but two of them are going to have some blame themselves for a difficult life when AOC & Omar have had their own party upset with them over other issues.
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You mean that if there is violence towards them because hypothetically a person takes Trump's words litteral (which people in the past have done) and think they "hate america" (which they never even claimed), it will be their own fault?

Do I need to remind the recent past:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_mail_bombing_attempts

Hating Trump's border policies, does not mean they "hate america".
 
Danoff
I'm not so sure that you're right. It might be simpler than that really.

Christians don't want to live in Israel (generally). But they do want people that mostly look white to be in charge over there, in a place that's important to them for their religion. So that they'll be able to visit and be around people that don't look scary.

I think that might be it.
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Meh. I grew up in semi-rural Texas with a lot of spiteful conservatives (perhaps most of them?) masquerading as "good Christians". I don't remember a single person who had any interest in religion outside of it's social aspects/cultural appropriateness. Certainly none with any vested interest in the holy land. I do remember a lot of them being shockingly anti-islamic though. A lot of top-of-the-bellcurve conservative people are capable of pretty horrific ideas.
 

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