America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
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- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Yeah, the missiles I mentioned would have the best chance of reaching the airport from outside Iran, but realistically you couldn't use them to fire at such a distance. Even ignoring the range limitations, the missile flight time would be so long that tracking the plane would have had to begun while it was sitting on the ground.
Operating costs can be a little tricky to pin down too. Aircraft usually go from expensive when new, to less expensive when mature, and back up to expensive when aging. I wasn't able to find a source comparing the F-35 to the F-15C directly but their costs might actually be pretty similar per flight hour. The F-35's costs are elevated right now because it's immature, they'll go down in the following years. The F-15C on the other hand is aging and requires increased maintenance which brings up its cost. The lower maintenance F-16 is cheaper than the F-35 and will likely always be, but Lockheed is aiming for a price well below current figures by 2025 (questionable target) or at worst a moderate price decrease by 2024 that looks like it can reasonably be achieved. That's for the A, the B is going to be more expensive.No argument from me on the operating costs, it’s not cheap. To my understanding, a lot of that has to do with the stealth coating...the paint job
Still though, outrage over operating costs is nothing new. After all, the operating costs of the F-15 and F-14 are part of the reason why the Airforce got F-16s and the Navy got F-18s (and part of the reason they retired the F-14s in favour of Super Hornets).
Dotini
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Bit by bit over decades, the US Congress has been ceding its Constitutional war powers responsibilities to the executive. Now Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) and Rand Paul seem like they may stand with House Democrats for a revision of the current AUMF. Good luck with that, as Jordan Peterson might say.
Joey D
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While I'm certainly not a fan of everything Mike Lee does, overall I think he and Mitt Romney are decent enough* Senators for Utah. I mean considering we had grumpy old man Orinn Hatch, it's not like it's a huge step up.
*for politicians anyway
*for politicians anyway
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- Simcoeace
The simple reality is that the US is only subject to any kind of threat from Iran because the US is deeply involved in the ME with troops & military assets scattered throughout Iran's backyard. Of course, Iran's entrenched hostility to Israel is a serious problem, but you've got to wonder if the trillions of dollars spent by the US & the various countries in the ME on weapons & fighting had been spent on "peace & reconciliation" the region wouldn't be a trillion times better off. 
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I think it would really only be possible in a Hollywood movie.
Even if the missile had the theoretical range, hitting a stationary target on the ground from 300 miles away is not anywhere close to the same as hitting a moving airplane. The number of times the missile would have to recalculate its flight path as the airplane changed speed, direction, and altitude, would result in it having little to no energy left by the time it flew 300 miles.
A missile large enough to fly 300 miles would be detectable on radar. Again, the Iranians would have pretty solid proof that it was indeed a missile that shot the plane down.
From what I gather, the plane went down roughly 10-15 minutes after it was airborne? Correct me if I’m wrong there. Assuming the missile travelled at an average speed of Mach 2 (complete guess), 1522.41mph, it would take about 18 minutes to travel 466 miles (assuming missile launched from a ship in the Gulf). So yes, radar would have had to start tracking the target while it was on the ground, or immediately after take off. I know there are radars that can spot planes on the ground - it’s something Israel has to deal with all the time, their adversaries know the moment an Israeli jet goes wheels up. I’ve no idea what the range of these kind of radars is though, 300+ miles seems highly unlikely. What would be more likely than ground radar would be an AWACS flying over Iraq, but even there, they might have the ability to see targets 300 miles away against sky, but a target on the ground at 300 miles seems very optimistic.
Then there’s the “why”. Did the Americans just chuck a missile into the furball around Tehran’s international airport and hope to hit something, anything? Or did they target that plane specifically? If they target that flight specifically, you very quickly get into some Jason Borne / Bond type stuff, or 4-chan trolls are picking targets for the US Military (“ya, the Ukrainian one, that’ll really make everyone’s head spin!”).
As far as I know, USAF has retired most of its F-15C fleet. I think there’s one, maybe two Air National Guard squadrons that still fly them, and then a handful are used by the Red Air/Aggressor squadrons for dissimilar airframe BFM/BVR training, and war games.
A more fair comparison would be between the F-35 and an F-15E, or the brand spanking new F-15X (from what I can find, USAF just bought 12 of these for $1.2 billion, or $100 million per unit).
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- huskeR_32
Per the Wall Street Journal, Trump killed Soleimani to try and bolster his chances at not getting removed from office:
So, Trumpers, you good with this? This is an acceptable reason to go to war now?
WSJ
So, Trumpers, you good with this? This is an acceptable reason to go to war now?
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He actually pulled this play right out of Bill Clinton's book.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/clinton-orders-airstrike-on-iraq-dec-16-1998-232571
Danoff
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- TexRex72
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- Rallywgn81
huh, so there is a name for that. I always wondered.
In other American news:
Seems so many of our friends abroad are picking at us.
In other American news:
Seems so many of our friends abroad are picking at us.
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Should have break checked them
It’s kind of crazy, but this happens on a semi regular basis. Militaries are always playing games with one another.
Joey D
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Looks like the US was keen on assassinating another one of the top military leaders for Iran on the same night, but the operation didn't work out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...f86dbc-3245-11ea-898f-eb846b7e9feb_story.html
I have to imagine there were more than the two as well.
==
Also, it appears that a non-binding War Power resolution was passed in the House: https://www.npr.org/2020/01/09/7949...-in-effort-to-restrict-trumps-actions-against
I believe the Senate needs to approve it to make it an actual law. I'm not 100% sure. What I find odd though is that Trump and his staff are saying they had the authorization to attack Iran due to the War Powers Resolution passed in 2002. Somehow I don't think that lines up. Bombing and shooting up terrorist camps is a war on terrorism. Going after a country proper isn't.
I have to imagine there were more than the two as well.
==
Also, it appears that a non-binding War Power resolution was passed in the House: https://www.npr.org/2020/01/09/7949...-in-effort-to-restrict-trumps-actions-against
I believe the Senate needs to approve it to make it an actual law. I'm not 100% sure. What I find odd though is that Trump and his staff are saying they had the authorization to attack Iran due to the War Powers Resolution passed in 2002. Somehow I don't think that lines up. Bombing and shooting up terrorist camps is a war on terrorism. Going after a country proper isn't.
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Got lost in the Wally world parking lot looking for his truckster I assume....
Scaff
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Trump has a bit of a moan again, because he didn't get the Nobel Peace Prize.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51063149
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51063149
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- Milouse
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The link between this article and analogy of Trump case is based on this : "Some Republican members of Congress accused Clinton of using the airstrikes to divert attention from ongoing impeachment proceedings"... Very light for an article published almost 20 years after the event.
And the 1998 air strikes involved at least another allied country.
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- minimoto2011
May 2019: Iran attacks oil rigs in the gulf
June 2019: Iran shoots down US drone
July 2019: Iran seizes British oil tanker
Sept 2019: Iran attacks Saudi oil facility
Dec 2019: Iran attacks military bases in Iraq
Dec 2019: Iran storms the us embassy in Baghdad
Jan 2020: US air strikes Baghdad, killing an Iran commander.
Jan 2020: Iran launches missiles targeting base with US soldiers in Iraq
(Edit) Jan 2020: it WAS Iran who shot down that Ukrainian passenger jet, “unintentionally”
But Trump is starting war?
June 2019: Iran shoots down US drone
July 2019: Iran seizes British oil tanker
Sept 2019: Iran attacks Saudi oil facility
Dec 2019: Iran attacks military bases in Iraq
Dec 2019: Iran storms the us embassy in Baghdad
Jan 2020: US air strikes Baghdad, killing an Iran commander.
Jan 2020: Iran launches missiles targeting base with US soldiers in Iraq
(Edit) Jan 2020: it WAS Iran who shot down that Ukrainian passenger jet, “unintentionally”
But Trump is starting war?
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- Simcoeace
For starters, take a look at the post above. Iran has never helped overthrow a democratically elected US government.
The US definitely shot down an Iranian civilian airliner killing everyone on board, including 66 children.
Iran has never financed & armed a neighbouring rival to attack the US, not "terrorist attacks" mind you, but a full fledged war that killed hundreds of thousands of Iranians.
Iran has ever invaded a direct neighbour of the US causing region-wide chaos & resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis ... & leading to the very ascendency of Iran in the region that the US is now trying to counter.
Iran has never launched crippling economic sanctions against the US.
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Don't you want a war? I'm confused.
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- TexRex72
I snorted.
