America - The Official Thread
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
- 41,790 comments
- 2,040,780 views
Joey D
Premium
- 47,639
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
It's pretty clear that the Big 2.5 here in Michigan are lobbying her and it seems like she'd have something better to tackle.Senator Elissa Slotkin introduces her first bill, which is to ban all Chinese car imports to the United States.
Slotkin introduces bill that would prevent Chinese vehicles from entering U.S.
Michigan Sen. Elissa Slotkin introduced a bill Thursday she says is aimed at preventing Chinese vehicles from entering the U.S. It marks the first time that Slotkin has introduced a bill since winning a U.S. Senate seat in November.www.cbsnews.com
Curious to hear @Joey D ’s thoughts on this.
I don't disagree with banning Chinese cars though, but I think tariffs are probably going to sort that out pretty quick. I don't agree with Trump on most things but I do think, in theory at least, he's right to punish China as much as possible. Companies don't need to move their manufacturing to the US, but they need to move it out of China to countries that aren't an enemy.
- 2,432
- Michigan
- FuriousDemon
This guy is an idiot and just a grifter. He has no ****ing plan, just collect the money from companies for favors. **** America.
Trump exempts phones, computers and other electronics from tariffs on Chinese goods
Move is seen as a win for big U.S. tech companies, whose founders have donated millions to Trump’s campaign and inauguration
www.independent.co.uk
Joey D
Premium
- 47,639
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
I didn't say Trump wasn't an idiot nor did I say how he was punishing China is the right way. I'm just saying agree with him when he says China is an enemy and that they need to punished. Honestly, I believe any connected device that has access to data and is made in China or run by a Chinese company should be banned on grounds of national security. Tariffs aren't the way to do this though, tariffs are dumb and don't work. An outright ban does work.This guy is an idiot and just a grifter. He has no *ing plan, just collect the money from companies for favors. * America.
Trump exempts phones, computers and other electronics from tariffs on Chinese goods
Move is seen as a win for big U.S. tech companies, whose founders have donated millions to Trump’s campaign and inauguration
The Chinese aren't our friends and they aim to hurt the country in any way that they can and we just let them walk right in and have access to everything. It's why TikTok is so dangerous. It gives Xinnie the Pooh's goons access to everything on you from your banking details to your health records and they will use that in a nefarious way.
Joey D
Premium
- 47,639
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
- 6,139
- Simcoeace
I don't see China as an enemy any more than the USA is an enemy. China hasn't threatened to annex us ( Canada). China has never invaded us, the US has.
Trump seems to be playing into the hands of China by pushing for a re-arrangement of the world into hegemonic power blocks. He sees the USA as the dominant power in that system - that's why he pushing for taking over Greenland and Canada and control of the Panama canal. The world has muddled along well enough with the post-Second World War order ... but that's not good enough for Trump. He wants to stir things up so (presumably) his own genius can rearrange things to the benefit of the US.
The farcical roll out of the tariffs just goes to show what an inherently clumsy way it is to control international trade. Backing off on the tariffs on "smart phone and computers" acknowledges that tariffs on them would have catastrophic consequences ... and damage the fortunes of his new multi-billionaire tech buddies. There are many thousands of other, smaller US businesses that would be decimated by high tariff barriers. Production of the goods they use in their businesses takes place in the Far East, either partially or entirely. Many of those businesses are not profitable enough to justify creating completely new production centres in the US. Even if they did attempt to relocate production to the US, it would likely take years to build the facilities, and staff and train the employees needed. In the meantime, most of those business would go under.
Last edited:
- 88,570
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Sliiiiight bad news on that front.
Vietnam is a trading partner with China, and China ships an awful lot of stuff to Vietnam to ship elsewhere to avoid tariffs on goods from China that are not applied to goods from Vietnam - a practice called "trans-shipping" (which is another "trans" that Republicans can hate on).
"Made in Vietnam" does not necessarily convey the reality of its point of manufacture; the goods may actually be made in Vietnam (in a China-owned facility in Vietnam), or they may be actually made in China and packaged in Vietnam. It's legal either way. Samsung does the same: my S23 is made in Vietnam, but the handset and its components were almost certainly assembled in Korea and shipped to Vietnam for final assembly and boxing.
- 557
- Canada
- Mortal_Resonance
The problem with this though is that the banning of Chinese cars hasn't come from genuine concern over information tracking back to the Chinese government. It came from American automotive companies lobbying to get them banned because they can't match the Chinese EVs for cost. That's all it is. American companies afraid that Chinese cars would outsell American cars in the US.
Do you know what another solution for that is? American automotive companies to actually reduce costs, instead of inflating them, to improve quality and technology and not use "the latest tech" as an excuse to hike costs.
They lobbied for Chinese cars to be banned because if American citizens realized what you could get for a fraction of the cost of a US alternative, their companies would crumble.
Rich Builds and co recently went to Alaska to test some Chinese EVs and came away greatly impressed, especially on quality, tech AND price.
I don't think Chinese EVs are the problem here.
Last edited:
- 13,962
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Kinda, but money spent outside the US in US dollars either means that money is taken out of circulation (which is deflationary) or that someone has to buy US products/services to put that money back into the US economy.
Buying stuff from overseas doesn't just mean the money disappears, it means that suddenly there's incentives for countries to find things that they can buy from each other. That's why trade is a really good way of trying to discourage war, and why it's terrifying that Trump is essentially trying to blow up international free trade.
These are unchecked capitalism problems though.
This. The bad stuff that China does is the same dodgy **** that all the major world powers do. It sucks, but it's not uniquely terrible and there are no powers that do not do this. It's a bit self-perpetuating, but it's what we've got.
In terms of how they treat other countries, China seems to lean pretty heavily on the carrot while the US is really enjoying that big ole stick they've got. I know which one is more comfortable to deal with, even if fundamentally both are unpleasantly self-serving.
- 6,139
- Simcoeace
I wouldn't underestimate the questionable intent of either the Chinese or the USA (under Trump) towards other countries. Xi Jinping has a huge population to worry about, which understandably is his first priority and China has only recently emerged from Third World status. The US has been the dominant world power since the end of WWII and has done its best over the last 80 years to arrange world affairs to suit its interests, but in spite of that Trump has managed to convince many Americans that they are suckers and victims of the system rather than creators and beneficiaries of the system. What Trump wants is not a "level playing field", it's an outcome where the US is able to assert complete dominance over other smaller countries, dictating how they arrange their economies.
Last edited:
Danoff
Premium
- 34,231
- Mile High City
If you're pitching nations to companies on the basis of respect for human rights, economic stability, prosperity, and promotion of fair trade, I don't think the US has a strong sales pitch to those companies. So it seems like @Joey D's argument is that these companies should just have an automatic preference for the US for some reason.
Joey D
Premium
- 47,639
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Except the bill Slotkin introduced targets the connectivity specifically. So yes, the concern is over the information tracking.
Chinese vehicles are also artificially cheap. The CCP props them up to sell them and undercut pretty much everyone. American companies or really any company can't compete unless the government subsidizes the cars. If they didn't, those companies don't make money and have no reason to build vehicles anymore.
I don't think Americans would really buy Chinese vehicles in any great numbers though. They'd probably be on par with Korean vehicles in terms of popularity and quality, which would turn a lot of people off.
That's a reasonable take honestly. I don't see why European nations or even Canada would buy American goods right now and I wouldn't fault someone for not buying them on the grounds of national security or even just not wanting to support the American economy.
Unfortunately, America is an enemy of several countries right now and it's going to take a while to get back on track and rebuild trust. We need to rid ourselves of the Unamerican enemies in our own government first.
- 557
- Canada
- Mortal_Resonance
Do you think by chance that a politician might pass a bill, citing reason A (made up reason) rather than reason B (actual reason), because they know reason B isn't a strong case while reason A is?
Sounds like something that happens all the time to me...
And from the European Union's investigation in to the CCP subsidizing costs for Chinese EV manufacturers...
and in the same article...
The CCP no longer subsidizes the EVs, and apparently haven't for 3 years. What China has (and I mentioned this earlier in this thread) is Comparative Advantage - they have the resources, raw material and production lines available to mass produce EVs at (per the above article) least 20% cheaper than US competitors. They produce them quicker and cheaper.
Also, for giggles - if Chinese EVs are cheap because the CCP subsidizes them, why aren't US EVs cheap? After all...
And that's not including the tax credits the purchaser gets! Looks to me like the US subsidizes US EVs, but they still remain stupidly expensive, to the point where a fossil fuel burning engine is the more affordable option.
Wait a minute...isn't Trump openly in support of gas and the fossil fuel industry???
somethingsomethingLargeAutomotiveCompaniesAndPetroleumCompaniesLobbyingToGetBillsPassedToBlockChineseEVsForBunkReasonsJustSoTheyCanMaintainTheirBillionDollarProfitsblahblahblah
Last edited:
- 3,854
- Hoboken, New Jersey
Sounds to me like the free market at work. If anything, this would be a net positive, as more and more Americans are completely priced out of the new car market despite demand for new, cheap vehicles spiking since 2020. Hell, Nissan won't even make the Versa anymore. It would be better off for lower-income and cost-conscious new car buyers to end up with subpar Chinese vehicles at a low price versus subpar American vehicles at much higher ones. Isn't competition an unambiguously good thing?
I'd imagine that Chinese vehicles entering the United States would mostly cater to cost-conscious buyers. Which is a win-win- those of less means can buy their new cars while wealthier consumers will continue to buy American and legacy foreign cars at roughly the same rates.
Last edited:
Joey D
Premium
- 47,639
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Yes, that's entirely possible and very likely. However, I'm going by what the bill says and the reason it's being introduced. The justification for the bill is connectivity.
Forgive for not believing a single thing the CCP says.
Lucid CEO Says Chinese EV Brands Are ‘Heavily Subsidized’ by Government
Chinese EV brands should not be underestimated despite their lag in powertrain technology and the substantial state support they receive, Lucid Motors CEO Peter Rawlinson suggested in a recent inte…
eletric-vehicles.com
Lucid CEO Criticizes Chinese Auto Industry’s State Support
In a new interview on the podcast “The Luxury Item with Scott Kerr,” Rawlinson voiced concerns about the advantages Chinese automakers enjoy due to substantial government support and lower labor co…
eletric-vehicles.com
China also builds cars it doesn't need to. It's the symptom of a Communist style economic system; they want people employed, whether the thing they make is actually used or not. The Chinese have done this for decades, including things like full-blown cities where no one lives:
If I'm not to believe US politicians, why would I ever believe a government as horrible as the CCP? They're subsidizing the EV industry.
As for why EVs aren't cheap in the US? Mainly, there isn't a demand for them and thus no reason to have competition to keep prices low. EVs don't make sense for a large portion of the population. I could never own an EV since my choices would be a Rivian or a Cybertruck and one is life support while the other is the official vehicle of Nazis. There's also the cost of labor, while the US isn't exactly known for high wages, we don't use actual slave labor like the Chinese do. EVs built by any of the domestic automakers are also beholdened to the UAW/CAW which dictates how much the people putting the vehicles together actually get paid.
In addition to that, the dealer networks in the US make vehicles more expensive than they need to be by controlling what is and isn't sold. Sure, GM could make a $20k EV, but the likelihood of finding one would be slim to none by the time you add in options and dealer markups. We run into this with every vehicle sold in the US currently. The culture surrounding car buying in the US has a lot to do with the price too. It's common to buy an $80k car simply because you can get an 8-year loan on it and your payments are like $800 a month. A majority of car buyers don't care about the sticker price of the car, they care about what the monthly payment is. I'm entirely guilty of this too since I really don't care what the price is on a vehicle as long as my payments are around $600 a month.
Granted EVs are way more affordable in the US than they were even 5 years ago.
I'm not sure how much it is the free market. When a government makes a price artificially low, it's not a free market. On the same token, it's not a free market when the government makes something artificially more expensive too, much like Trump is doing with tariffs.
I'm not sure how popular Chinese cars would be, though. Made in China is typically associated with cheap crap. People who want inexpensive cars also typically aren't buying new because they like features on a car. It's why things like the Versa are no longer for sale. People don't want a bare-bones car in America, despite how much car enthusiasts like to pretend they do. People want heated seats, infotainment, and all that extra stuff.
The only way I could see a Chinese car selling in any quantity is if they took the Korean route of a 10-year/100k warranty. They'd be sunk as soon as something catastrophic happened too. You would never be able to sue a Chinese company since they would just ignore it. At least with US and European-based manufacturers, you can file a class action suit if the vehicles start killing people. We'd pretty much ban Chinese vehicles as soon as that happened.
I wonder if it's a location thing? In the US, Hyundais and Kias aren't very reliable and have transmissions made of glass. They're also incredibly easy to steal and the new GTDI engine grenades itself. Are Korean cars better today than they were 10-15 years ago? Absolutely, there's no denying that and they've made leaps and bounds to get better. I still wouldn't touch one with a ten-foot pole.
The only Chinese cars I've ever been in is a new Volvo. Compared to the Ford Volvos, they were significantly worse and I've fall out of love with the brand that I used to really like.
- 6,139
- Simcoeace
I don't really know anything about Chinese cars ... however what is clear is that Asian manufacturers have made huge leaps in quality over the last few decades. I am old enough to remember a time when Japanese cars were considered a joke ... until the point when they became clearly superior in quality and design to most US cars. Korea has followed the same trajectory and I expect China will too.Yes, that's entirely possible and very likely. However, I'm going by what the bill says and the reason it's being introduced. The justification for the bill is connectivity.
Forgive for not believing a single thing the CCP says.
Lucid CEO Says Chinese EV Brands Are ‘Heavily Subsidized’ by Government
Chinese EV brands should not be underestimated despite their lag in powertrain technology and the substantial state support they receive, Lucid Motors CEO Peter Rawlinson suggested in a recent inte…
Lucid CEO Criticizes Chinese Auto Industry’s State Support
In a new interview on the podcast “The Luxury Item with Scott Kerr,” Rawlinson voiced concerns about the advantages Chinese automakers enjoy due to substantial government support and lower labor co…
China also builds cars it doesn't need to. It's the symptom of a Communist style economic system; they want people employed, whether the thing they make is actually used or not. The Chinese have done this for decades, including things like full-blown cities where no one lives:
If I'm not to believe US politicians, why would I ever believe a government as horrible as the CCP? They're subsidizing the EV industry.
As for why EVs aren't cheap in the US? Mainly, there isn't a demand for them and thus no reason to have competition to keep prices low. EVs don't make sense for a large portion of the population. I could never own an EV since my choices would be a Rivian or a Cybertruck and one is life support while the other is the official vehicle of Nazis. There's also the cost of labor, while the US isn't exactly known for high wages, we don't use actual slave labor like the Chinese do. EVs built by any of the domestic automakers are also beholdened to the UAW/CAW which dictates how much the people putting the vehicles together actually get paid.
In addition to that, the dealer networks in the US make vehicles more expensive than they need to be by controlling what is and isn't sold. Sure, GM could make a $20k EV, but the likelihood of finding one would be slim to none by the time you add in options and dealer markups. We run into this with every vehicle sold in the US currently. The culture surrounding car buying in the US has a lot to do with the price too. It's common to buy an $80k car simply because you can get an 8-year loan on it and your payments are like $800 a month. A majority of car buyers don't care about the sticker price of the car, they care about what the monthly payment is. I'm entirely guilty of this too since I really don't care what the price is on a vehicle as long as my payments are around $600 a month.
Granted EVs are way more affordable in the US than they were even 5 years ago.
I'm not sure how much it is the free market. When a government makes a price artificially low, it's not a free market. On the same token, it's not a free market when the government makes something artificially more expensive too, much like Trump is doing with tariffs.
I'm not sure how popular Chinese cars would be, though. Made in China is typically associated with cheap crap. People who want inexpensive cars also typically aren't buying new because they like features on a car. It's why things like the Versa are no longer for sale. People don't want a bare-bones car in America, despite how much car enthusiasts like to pretend they do. People want heated seats, infotainment, and all that extra stuff.
The only way I could see a Chinese car selling in any quantity is if they took the Korean route of a 10-year/100k warranty. They'd be sunk as soon as something catastrophic happened too. You would never be able to sue a Chinese company since they would just ignore it. At least with US and European-based manufacturers, you can file a class action suit if the vehicles start killing people. We'd pretty much ban Chinese vehicles as soon as that happened.
I wonder if it's a location thing? In the US, Hyundais and Kias aren't very reliable and have transmissions made of glass. They're also incredibly easy to steal and the new GTDI engine grenades itself. Are Korean cars better today than they were 10-15 years ago? Absolutely, there's no denying that and they've made leaps and bounds to get better. I still wouldn't touch one with a ten-foot pole.
The only Chinese cars I've ever been in is a new Volvo. Compared to the Ford Volvos, they were significantly worse and I've fall out of love with the brand that I used to really like.
JD Vance's insulting (and inaccurate) reference to "Chinese peasants" is an indication of the fundamentally racist mindset of many Americans, even "educated" ones. Those Chinese "peasants" have become extremely skilled at making a whole range of products. Costs of manufacturing in China have increased which has led to out-sourcing to countries like Vietnam and Sri Lanka, the same way that Japanese companies started out-sourcing to China a couple of decades ago. Gratuitous insults have been the consistent approach of Trump for years and that seems to have spilled over to his idiot supporters. Insulting people does not seem like a good bargaining strategy in any situation.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,883
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
JD Power for the UK puts Hyundai and Kia at 10th and 11th respectively, above Ford, VW, and Audi, they don't appear to have an issue with theft rates and nice long warranties help out if you do have issues (and the N cars even carry the warranty over to track-day use).
I've sampled the Polestar 2 (which I would easily put over a Tesla), the MG4, and the Omoda 5 as far as Chinese EVs go, all were perfectly fine, particularly for the price point.
- 20,685
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
McLaren
Premium
- 45,966
- Texas
Case in point.
2 days later.
Trump Admin Walks Back Tariff Exemption On Electronics
U.S. Customs and Border Protection claimed late on Friday that imported electronics, such as smartphones, laptops and more, would be exempt from Trump’s tariffs.
- 3,854
- Hoboken, New Jersey
Trump loyalist Marjorie Taylor Greene bought shares before stock market rebound
Democrats call for investigation into congresswoman’s actions
www.telegraph.co.uk
Last edited:
Similar threads
Latest Posts
-
Gran Turismo World Series (2025 Nations Cup | April 23 - May 10)- Latest: SPDN Stefano
-
-
Obelisk's Garage - Daihatsu Midget II, Mazda MX5 (NC2), Suzuki Alto Works (HB11S)- Latest: XSquareStickIt
-
