Analysis and demonstration of the penalty system's flaw

[Boedefeld]

Good opportunity to show these two examples:





In the second one I received a 5 second penalty because the guy behind me tapped me while spinning out, which eventually cost me the victory in my first FIA race (and haven't been bothered to do another one since then)

Edit: The thing I hate the most about the SR system that whenever you get in an argument with another guy online, they immediately stalk your kudosprime profile and judge you by your SR history. But seeing how flawed this system actually is it really doesn't say anything about you as a driver and how clean you race (as proven by the two examples above). I could, as many popular YouTubers do, just do another race after I was ****ed by the penalty system and get my SR back to 99 so the stalkers can marvel at how "clean" my racing is but I really don't have the time for that. I had to make room for 2-3 races everyday and then log off because of life. When I got another undeserved SR down it was reflected in my profile because it saves from day-to-day. I've always given my best in (almost) every race and only resorted to punts-on-purpose on 3-4 occasions. But whenever I try to argue with people, they post my SR history and belittle/ignore me. I hate it

 

[Fabr_123]

Very informative video. PD must adress these issues ASAP.

 

[Dmac72]

I think the worst example I experienced recently was on a grid start when the guy on my right pushed me across the track (not bumped but pushed all the way across) into the side of the guy on my left.
The guy on the left was in a barrier and I had a 5s penalty.
The guy who caused the problem got away without any penalty at all and was credited with a clean race.
That was the last straw for me.

 

[AlexTheodore]

Until the penalty system is more accurate, the community that we want to play cleanly and respectfully, we depend on ourselves. In the rooms, to expel whoever plays dirty, it is difficult to make determinations only with the opinion of the affected party, but if we observe that a large number of people complain about the same person by repeated dirty maneuvers, expelled, or perhaps the programmers indicate in a much more obvious (label in the name of the pilot, or something similar) that is a dirty driver.

Great job in this post Alex and friends.

 

[Groundfish]

I think Polyphony should come out and disable the penalty system for one weeks races.

See what you think then...

 

[TurboTacho]

I know when I get rear-ended with a speed boost, and somewhat avoid colliding into a wall in a middle of a corner, I get 2 seconds for that save. Without hitting anyone in return, while the culprit runs away.

Ultimately it's all about the respect on the track. Even if someone squeezes past me down a draft and into a corner, I'd still give the necessary headroom although I'm ahead into the apex. Basically driving in a defensive approach...

 

[ROCKET JOE]

I think Polyphony should come out and disable the penalty system for one weeks races. ...

Plus ...
Let the game just count contact in the background.
After the week is done select 20 percent of players with the highest count of average incidents
and reset them to SR E !

Surprise surprise ...

 

[breeminator]

when the game detects a collision between 2 cars, it will use speed differential after the contact as the criteria to decide who is to blame. The car who is slowed down the most following the contact is considered as the victim. Steering, braking or throttle inputs does not matter.

I just came across this, which I'm sure most other people will have seen at the time, but I'm fairly new to the game:
https://www.gtplanet.net/fia-boss-s...ia-influences-gt-sports-tracks-and-penalties/

One of the key principles as explained there is "advantage gained", and it's easy to see how the system as described in the OP could have arisen from a desire to embody this principle.

A major issue is the ability for people to "game" the system in ways that they would stand no chance of getting away with in real life because it would be obvious to a human observer. So real world implementations haven't needed to adapt to cope with this, and thus an e-sport automated penalty system will always need to do more than merely translate real world practice.

 

[ASH32]

You can bump the back quarter of a car then cut the corner to overtake that car and get that car a penalty (maybe even a 5 second one if you are lucky) in the process, the game does not care one bit about who gained an advantage with regards to contact penalties. It can't be that hard to at least not give a penalty in this situation, that is a small improvement they can make. Stopping the bump to shortcut the track penalty free is much harder to fix.

 

[Sloppy Shades]

If you race with monkeys you're gonna get **** thrown at you. GT Sport online (plus other games to a lesser extent) is basically a simian simulator. Can't see why so many people keep begging for this crash fest to become fair. It never ever will. Everyone knows that. As long as people keep paying and playing nothing will ever change. Only a massive boycott would make a difference except the people who demand change are in a small minority so good luck with that.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

If you race with monkeys you're gonna get **** thrown at you. GT Sport online (plus other games to a lesser extent) is basically a simian simulator. Can't see why so many people keep begging for this crash fest to become fair. It never ever will. Everyone knows that. As long as people keep paying and playing nothing will ever change. Only a massive boycott would make a difference except the people who demand change are in a small minority so good luck with that.

Please don't derail or hijack the thread. The point of this thread is to discuss the flaws in the system. This isn't the place to rally people to boycott it. Start a different thread for that if that's your goal.

 

[iFerrari]

Till PD doesn’t understand that the idea of giving slow down penalties on contacts is straight up wrong the game will never be “healthy”. An IA will never be able to distinguish who’s at fault in accidents, they are always different from one another. They could copy iRacing system on car contacts and be good with it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Good opportunity to show these two examples:





In the second one I received a 5 second penalty because the guy behind me tapped me while spinning out, which eventually cost me the victory in my first FIA race (and haven't been bothered to do another one since then)

Edit: The thing I hate the most about the SR system that whenever you get in an argument with another guy online, they immediately stalk your kudosprime profile and judge you by your SR history. But seeing how flawed this system actually is it really doesn't say anything about you as a driver and how clean you race (as proven by the two examples above). I could, as many popular YouTubers do, just do another race after I was ****ed by the penalty system and get my SR back to 99 so the stalkers can marvel at how "clean" my racing is but I really don't have the time for that. I had to make room for 2-3 races everyday and then log off because of life. When I got another undeserved SR down it was reflected in my profile because it saves from day-to-day. I've always given my best in (almost) every race and only resorted to punts-on-purpose on 3-4 occasions. But whenever I try to argue with people, they post my SR history and belittle/ignore me. I hate it

That snapshot on KP is from PD storing your SR at I guess midnight in Japan? It's 8pm EST, during the dirtiest time on the NA server. You can be SR 99 all day, get ruined at 7pm and show a huge SR drop on your profile

It does say something when you see profiles that get DR resets almost weekly or sit at average below 50 SR. Still they frequently creep into SR.S. Anyway SR.S isn't any cleaner, rather the opposite with people fighting harder since SR is maxed anyway. I just quit 3 races in a row waiting for one where I don't get punted or rammed in T1. I finished the 4th one despite getting punted multiple times again, get some practice time in. The same idiot hit me again and again and again. Same thing in previous weeks. I have no clue what his problem is, but as long as PD doesn't fix the penalty system he'll keep doing it.

KP might not be accurate, but this tells enough.

Why does PD let these people back into SR.S ??? I've reported him at least a dozen times, PD does absolutely nothing.

And they complain about your stats? Great driving, keep it up!

 

[ROCKET JOE]

... Edit: The thing I hate the most about the SR system that whenever you get in an argument with another guy online, they immediately stalk your kudosprime profile and judge you by your SR history. But seeing how flawed this system actually is it really doesn't say anything about you as a driver and how clean you race (as proven by the two examples above). I could, as many popular YouTubers do, just do another race after I was ****ed by the penalty system and get my SR back to 99 so the stalkers can marvel at how "clean" my racing is but I really don't have the time for that. I had to make room for 2-3 races everyday and then log off because of life. When I got another undeserved SR down it was reflected in my profile because it saves from day-to-day. I've always given my best in (almost) every race and only resorted to punts-on-purpose on 3-4 occasions. But whenever I try to argue with people, they post my SR history and belittle/ignore me. I hate it

Bang ! There it is ... [Sigh]
I'm going to be off topic and it's going to be mighty unpopular as I'll question the GT world's favorite toy besides the game itself ( second time within a week ).
@Boedefeld
Did you complain at Kudosprime ? My point of view ? :
It's their sloppy to non-existent care for privacy that's leading to this. Keep in mind that your original game data on granturismo.com is password protected ( a legal standard I'd say ) while KP uses a loophole to simply ignore this.
It's possible to exclude your PSN name from KP's "Name Search" function, no one would be able to look you up just like that then. I did that long ago watching parts of the community turning into a spy club.

Roger Over Beep

 

[Dmac72]

Bang ! There it is ... [Sigh]
I'm going to be off topic and it's going to be mighty unpopular as I'll question the GT world's favorite toy besides the game itself ( second time within a week ).
@Boedefeld
Did you complain at Kudosprime ? My point of view ? :
It's their sloppy to non-existent care for privacy that's leading to this. Keep in mind that your original game data on granturismo.com is password protected ( a legal standard I'd say ) while KP uses a loophole to simply ignore this.
It's possible to exclude your PSN name from KP's "Name Search" function, no one would be able to look you up just like that then. I did that long ago watching parts of the community turning into a spy club.

Roger Over Beep

Benjamin Disraeli said “There are lies, damned lies and statistics.”
I’ll look at my own (limited) progress on KP but life is too short to go looking up others

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Bang ! There it is ... [Sigh]
I'm going to be off topic and it's going to be mighty unpopular as I'll question the GT world's favorite toy besides the game itself ( second time within a week ).
@Boedefeld
Did you complain at Kudosprime ? My point of view ? :
It's their sloppy to non-existent care for privacy that's leading to this. Keep in mind that your original game data on granturismo.com is password protected ( a legal standard I'd say ) while KP uses a loophole to simply ignore this.
It's possible to exclude your PSN name from KP's "Name Search" function, no one would be able to look you up just like that then. I did that long ago watching parts of the community turning into a spy club.

Roger Over Beep

It's not password protected lol. You just need to now the profile ID. KP simply cycles through all profile IDs. There are no privacy rights when it comes to sport statistics... Your off line wins and behavior is safe though, not recorded.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

It's not password protected lol. You just need to now the profile ID. KP simply cycles through all profile IDs. There are no privacy rights when it comes to sport statistics... Your off line wins and behavior is safe though, not recorded.

Yeah Sven, and how would you know my profile ID if I wouldn't tell you ?
Just to state there is no privacy when it comes to Sport statistics doesn't make it right, right ?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Yeah Sven, and how would you know my profile ID if I wouldn't tell you ?
Just to state there is no privacy when it comes to Sport statistics doesn't make it right, right ?

A simple tool to parse all profile IDs like KP does.

What's so wrong to have your public online racing stats available publicly online?

Not saying you do anything wrong, yet anonymity is what ruins most online gaming. A lot of people simply turned into 🤬 on the internet when they think they can hide behind an anonymous avatar.

 

[Dmac72]

A simple tool to parse all profile IDs like KP does.

What's so wrong to have your public online racing stats available publicly online?

Not saying you do anything wrong, yet anonymity is what ruins most online gaming. A lot of people simply turned into 🤬 on the internet when they think they can hide behind an anonymous avatar.

Whereas there is nothing but the utmost charm and courtesy in GT Sport??

 

[ROCKET JOE]

A simple tool to parse all profile IDs like KP does.

What's so wrong to have your public online racing stats available publicly online?

Not saying you do anything wrong, yet anonymity is what ruins most online gaming. A lot of people simply turned into 🤬 on the internet when they think they can hide behind an anonymous avatar.

I'm not an IT guy, yet I have a slight clue how KP does it of course.

My profile ID is part of my gran-turismo.com-account which is password protected, intentionally ! KP is working around my personal safety settings and I don't remember them asking me whether that is ok 👎 !

There might be many people who hide behind anonymity and act like online, there's just as many people though who start bashing others ( see @Boedefeld ) for what they find in public stats - and don't tell me one is better or worse than the other.
Different generations, different people, different mindsets ... privacy should definitely be up to every single person imo.

No more worries, Sven ... or whoever is moaning, as I think I've found an acceptable way to deal with that mess 👍 !

Back on topic.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Whereas there is nothing but the utmost charm and courtesy in GT Sport??

There would be more when it displays your real name and a report button that actually does something.

The downside of that is that some people will send you threats, can't have a civil world without policing...

 

[GT_Alex74]

I'm not an IT guy, yet I have a slight clue how KP does it of course.

My profile ID is part of my gran-turismo.com-account which is password protected, intentionally ! KP is working around my personal safety settings and I don't remember them asking me whether that is ok 👎 !

This is wrong on so many levels I have to chime in on that. Let me reassure you, Kudosprime is not working around anything. All the infos retrieved are infos made publicly available by PoDi either in game or on the gran turismo website. KP just keeps track and organizes them into graphs and tables and provides stats from that. I can attest that, since KP actually provided us at IGTL with some APIs to retrieve driver suits / helmets pictures on the fly.

When you went online on GT Sport, you accepted the GCU, which means you agreed that informations such as time driven, distance driven, number of days logged in... would be public. Also, there's no such thing as a Gran Turismo account, you have a PSN account. All your personal informations are protected and can't be retrieved by a third party (at least if you opted to keep them private, not counting hacks of course). GT can't even get them, as if you want to even register for Start Player status, you need to fill a form with your infos and accept another set of CGUs.

If you are afraid someone is spying on your gaming activities, I suggest you make sure nobody can link your gaming account with your real name first.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

@GT_Alex74
Thanks for "chiming in".

To the gtplanet community :
Looks like I need to stand corrected for a couple of false statements regarding the technical part of things ...
I do so, please take my apologies everyone. Should have read more of the fineprint then !

I'm not the one who needs to hide anything and if you'll ever meet me on track, I'm sure you won't have to worry much - still, I dislike many phenomenons arising from our gamestats being public. Hope we can leave it at that ! ?