...And taxes.

[Pupik]

Is it fair for a rich person to pay more in taxes than a poorer person? Should everyone pay the same rate, like a flat tax? Or should everyone just pay the same amount, like a poll tax? Is it fair to work harder, only to have more of your hard-worked earnings go to people who don't earn as much or work as hard (or at all).

What is fair and unfair to tax (estates, gifts, money that's been taxed already, etc.)? And what's unfair or fair to leave as tax-deductible, in your opinion?

 

[Shannon]

But at the end of the day, a high paying job with higher taxes still brings home more money than a low payed job with low taxes. And ironically, most high payed jobs such as management jobs require less physical work than the underpaid labourers. At least that's how it is over here...

 

[Famine]

most high payed jobs such as management jobs require less physical work than the underpaid labourers.

And?

Physical work is the only form of work?

 

[Dave A]

Actually I think a lot of phsyical workers can earn quite a lot of money, especially plumbers and electricians.

I personally don't think it's wrong to ax higher earners more, however I do think the tax rates are too high here for the level of service we get from out country. Our public transport is pathetic, the NHS is pretty poor as well, the police are probably trying their best on individual levels but they as a service they arn't too great, the who transport is on it's arse not just the public transport but things like road works, it's taken 8 months for them to dig a small hole, replace a pipe and fill it in just round the corner from my house. If I have to give 40% of what I earn to the government in taxes and NI they need to be able to offer at least a good service in these areas.

 

[Shannon]

And?

Physical work is the only form of work?

No, but when you think about it, a person sitting in air conditioning behind a desk shouldn't be getting payed double (or triple) the amount as someone outside in the heat busting their arse. So, I agree with higher taxes for higher payed jobs.

 

[Dave A]

It depends what they're doing and what their responsibility is. I know a building contractor (private) who earns far more than I do, he earns probably over £100k a year. I know it's not like that for all of them, but my point is, you can earn ****loads in an office sat at a desk, but you can outside in the heat as well, it's just a case of either moving up the ladder or starting your own business.

The way money goes depends on how profitable that department is/is supposed to be. Say I hired somone to work for me, say I got 5 sales agents and a manager, the manager would get a fair wage proportional to the expected profits gained from a team of 5 agents selling mobile phones. If for example Expres communications hired someone to manage a team of 10 people they'd get paid more than the manager of 5 doing the same job. They have higher responsibilitty. As a manager whener any of your people put a foot wrong, it your fault, you don't get that responsibility at the bottom step. It's the same working on a building site, the site manager gets paid more, but does a hell of a lot less physical work, however he's responsible for everyone. Can it operate without managers, can any company operate without them, the odd small one with the right kind of self motivated people might just manage but it won't run half as well as if it had a manager in place.

 

[Max_DC]

No, but when you think about it, a person sitting in air conditioning behind a desk shouldn't be getting payed double (or triple) the amount as someone outside in the heat busting their arse. So, I agree with higher taxes for higher payed jobs.

Only people who have never really worked with their brain think, that working physically is harder. Sure, you are exhausted after a day in the sun, I also don't say that it isn't hard, but being creative can be freaking hard if it is your job. Next thing. Almost everybody can work physically, some might need some workout before, but you know what I mean. Go 12 years to school and afterwards 5 or more years to university. That's not sth for the average joe. Also don't foregt responsability. Take a doctor for example and compare it to the resonsability of a average worker.
Notice though, that I don't talk about a coalworker 200 feet below the ground in the 19th century, I talk about normal payed 8 hour jobs within law regulations.

And I agree, that some jobs are clearly overpayed, but the world isn't fair...
The tax issue is very complex and varies from country to country.
2/3 of world's tax laws are in German... sounds like the ideal solution for everybody because it is complex enough for individual situations. It's the other way round though. The rich and the poor don't pay taxes nn Germany, middle class pays it all. Fu**ed up system...

 

[Famine]

No, but when you think about it, a person sitting in air conditioning behind a desk shouldn't be getting payed double (or triple) the amount as someone outside in the heat busting their arse.

Why?

 

[Joey D]

Flat tax per income brackets I say. If you make between X & Y amount you pay X amount of dollars. It would be easier to pay taxs I must say.

But should someone who makes 20 grand pay as much as 100 grand? No, but you also shouldn't penalize the rich for being rich.

 

[SS69]

i was told there was a way to file some paper work with the government and get out of paying taxes. anyone know what im talking about?

 

[xXSilencerXx]

I don't see the point of taxing rich people more than poor people. Most rich moderately rich people worked for it. So penalizing them for workin hard sounds like communism too me in the sense there's no incentive to work hard and rise in social status.

 

[Zardoz]

This could turn into another creation/evolution thread. Opinions on taxation are founded as much on beliefs as they are on anything else.

Talk about taxes inevitably turns into a discussion of class. Yes, "class", as in brahmins, nobles, serfs, peasants, etc.

That's what we're already talking about, isn't it?

 

[James2097]

Two certain things, death and taxes. As soon as you can just not care about both, you can become incredibly free of mind. Why let reality grind you down?

 

[Jedi2016]

I say it ought to be a fixed percentage.

 

[Famine]

I say it ought to be a fixed percentage.

Do rich people use more of the resources which taxes are spent on?

 

[Joey D]

Do rich people use more of the resources which taxes are spent on?

Actually I never thought of it that way before. We all use the same things taxes are spent on like schools, roads, stuff like that.

 

[Zardoz]

Should Jessica Simpson, Kanye West, Paris Hilton, and Alex Rodriguez be taxed at the same rate as a firefighter, a police officer, a soldier, a nurse, an Emergency Medical Technician, and a high-rise construction worker?

 

[Famine]

Define "rate" - percentage or raw currency?

And define "tax". Do you have a purchase tax in the USA? We have "VAT", an amusingly inaccurately named "Value added tax", of 17.5% on all purchases. Everyone who buys anything, but for a few select items, pays the same 17.5% on anything they buy. In other words, everyone is taxed at the same rate on purchases. Rich people buy more things, but they don't have to, so they pay more tax, voluntarily.


In the UK the VAT on one Paris Hilton-purchased Bentley Continental GT would exceed the income tax paid by a police officer in 7 years. Paris Hilton pays more tax - voluntarily.

 

[Joey D]

We have sales tax in the US, in Michigan it's 6% on everything you buy except food.

 

[Sage]

I believe there should be a flat income tax, although I’d be willing to settle for a fixed percentage just to keep the liberals from getting their torches out.

 

[Zardoz]

Define "rate".

And define "tax". Do you have a purchase tax in the USA? We have "VAT", an amusingly inaccurately named "Value added tax", of 17.5% on all purchases. Everyone who buys anything, but for a few select items, pays the same 17.5% on anything they buy. In other words, everyone is taxed at the same rate on purchases. Rich people buy more things, but they don't have to, so they pay more tax, voluntarily.

In the UK the VAT on one Paris Hilton-purchased Bentley Continental GT would exceed the income tax paid by a police officer in 7 years. Paris Hilton pays more tax - voluntarily.

I'm thinking of income tax only. We have sales taxes in almost every state, which everybody pays, of course, regardless of income level.

("Voluntarily"? Does Paris "volunteer" to pay the VAT on her Bentleys? Do you "volunteer" to pay it on all your purchases?)

But back to my original question. Should Jessica's vast income be taxed at the same rate as a guy who fights his way into burning buildings to rescue people?

Does Jessica "earn" her incredible wealth, just as the firefighter earns his $70,000 a year? Should she be expected to contribute a bit more of a percentage of her fantastic income to help fund the society and culture that has, in fact, created her? Or is that unfair to Jessica?

 

[Zardoz]

I believe there should be a flat income tax, although I’d be willing to settle for a fixed percentage just to keep the liberals from getting their torches out.

Carrot Top should be taxed at exactly the same rate as these guys were? :

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor.html

 

[Sage]

Well, I wouldn’t be against a tax exemption for those in the military – in fact, it seems a bit silly to tax those who work directly under the government, since the money is just being cycled back and forth.

 

[Brett]

I believe there should be a flat income tax, although I’d be willing to settle for a fixed percentage just to keep the liberals from getting their torches out.

I think I understand by what everyone means by flat income tax, as in a certain percentage of income, no matter how much one makes. Am I getting this right? I am being fairly dense at the moment and just feel stupid. But if that's the case, then I don't really see how it can get much more fair than having everyone pay the same percentage of their income, no matter if someone is paying in the billions or the hundreds of dollar of their income.

Well, I wouldn’t be against a tax exemption for those in the military – in fact, it seems a bit silly to tax those who work directly under the government, since the money is just being cycled back and forth.

I've always thought this too and every time I saw it everyone gives me a dumbfounded look like I am a complete idiot or something. Its like people don't understand the concept of the military being paid by the tax payers.

 

[Sage]

Well, I think the terminology goes like this: A flat tax means that everybody pays the same exact amount (n number of dollars), while the thing that you’re thinking of would be called a proportional tax (n% of your income).

[edit]: According to Wikipedia, many in the U.S. use flat tax to refer to a proportional tax, and poll tax to refer to a flat tax. So that’s where the confusion lies.

 

[Brett]

Well, I think the terminology goes like this: A flat tax means that everybody pays the same exact amount (n number of dollars), while the thing that you’re thinking of would be called a fixed percentage rate (n% of your income).

Well if that is the case, then what about those living on minimum wage who do not make a whole lot of money in a year of working? Even though the government does say that minimum wage is enough to live on. These people are not going to be able to taxed very much. Then your uber-rich people will be paying very little of their income. And before anyone says anything, yes there are not necessarily a whole lot of people on minimum wage, but they are still part of the taxable base of the country.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Capital gains tax should be eliminated...

Income tax should be graduated:

15% for the first "x" dollars of income, 25% for the next "y" dollars of income, and 40% for income above "y" (at the federal level) -- no exceptions.

The $90k cap on social security should be eliminated.

Excessive offshoring should be taxed...

Tax loopholes and shelters should be eliminated.

Expand the earned-income tax credit...

 

[Sage]

Well if that is the case, then what about those living on minimum wage who do not make a whole lot of money in a year of working?

Well, in the first place, I’m a Libertarian (which is why I believe in a flat tax), and Libertarian policy makes for a much, much smaller government, so we’d be talking about a very low flat tax.

Now, if even that were greater than somebody’s income, then maybe he could be assigned a proportional tax.

Income tax should be graduated:

15% for the first "x" dollars of income, 25% for the next "y" dollars of income, and 40% for income above "y" (at the federal level) -- no exceptions.

Why?

 

[Brett]

40% is a whole lot of money, especially when your upper tax bracket would probably be over a very large range of amounts of money. That is unless it was set to a very high starting point.

Social Security on the other hand is a complete crap system and should be ridden of. I am tired of donating 12.4% of my income--which right now I think I get most of back anyways since I only work in the summers at the moment, but that is not the point--to Social Security. It is money I will never see again, gone away to some imaginary land.

 

[Brett]

Well, in the first place, I’m a Libertarian (which is why I believe in a flat tax), and Libertarian policy makes for a much, much smaller government, so we’d be talking about a very low flat tax.

Now, if even that were greater than somebody’s income, then maybe he could be assigned a proportional tax.

I know that you are a Libertarian and I am also. But I just was not thinking in a very low flat tax. I was thinking more in numbers . . .

Oops, double post, that was an accident.