And this is why the current 5 second penalty is useless

[fastone371]

I bring you yet another installment in the "5 second penalties are useless" anthology. Notice how I have no issue stopping close to the car ahead of me without hitting them? There's no excuse for this other than careless driving.



So, 5 second penalty (because I saw it pop up) and he STILL won the race. SR S in red. How is it EVEN A PENALTY if there is no repercussion? He ruined the race of TWO players and he potentially wouldn't even have been on podium if it weren't for the carnage created. Why wasn't it 10 seconds? The system obviously knew he was at fault. The system knew that I didn't cause the player ahead of me to go off because I didn't even get an SR down! The system KNOWS what happened.

It's the penalty value itself that is wholly inadequate. This player should be busted back down to SR E until he learns how to race among other people! How can you be an SR S if you don't know enough to stop for a corner??!!

Hey, that was me!!!! (not really)

That's why I think the sport mode player base is shrinking and when that happens you most likely end up with a higher percentage of arcade racers than sim racers. The elite already claim that they rarely partake in sport mode and if they do it's with an alternate account, I think you will just continue to see more and more of that until almost everyone has alternate accounts at which point you could never race your "good" profile because you will be facing an overwhelming amount of arcade racers who must win at any cost. That must win at any cost group is a problem because sim racers are starting to figure out who they are and that doesnt seem to bother the arcade racers as long as they have good stats which is their only concern. I am not among the elite, not even close, but when I race I want to be recognized as someone other sim racers know that they can race fair with and not worry about being punted. I very seldom race in sport mode anymore, when I do I will dip my toes and if the driving is arcade like I am done for the day, if the racing is fair I will stick around as long as it stays that way.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Hey, that was me!!!! (not really)

That's why I think the sport mode player base is shrinking and when that happens you most likely end up with a higher percentage of arcade racers than sim racers. The elite already claim that they rarely partake in sport mode and if they do it's with an alternate account, I think you will just continue to see more and more of that until almost everyone has alternate accounts at which point you could never race your "good" profile because you will be facing an overwhelming amount of arcade racers who must win at any cost. That must win at any cost group is a problem because sim racers are starting to figure out who they are and that doesnt seem to bother the arcade racers as long as they have good stats which is their only concern. I am not among the elite, not even close, but when I race I want to be recognized as someone other sim racers know that they can race fair with and not worry about being punted. I very seldom race in sport mode anymore, when I do I will dip my toes and if the driving is arcade like I am done for the day, if the racing is fair I will stick around as long as it stays that way.

Nope, it's irrelevant. The "elite" still show up in my daily races from time to time and they are definitely there for FIA races. They only ones I see who are not overly aggressive are the ones that are so fast, they have no one to be aggressive toward.

The last round of FIA races that I participated in, nearly the entire field had incurred penalties and I often saw more than 5 seconds flashing over other drivers. I was also wrecked out of a race, in a similar fashion to my first video, and it was a complete rage quit thing. A player got passed and bumped off by plenty of others, then I came along. I was the car in his sights.

There are plenty of players who consider themselves "elite" and being competitive sometimes strikes a blow to their self image causing them to lash out. I see it often.


Still, as I have mentioned in other places, not playing daily races isn't a solution. It's not different that going off to play God of War as a solution. The problem exists in the daily races, which is the core focus of this game, and the only valid solution is one that is applied to the core focus of the game.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

At this point I think PD should just arbitrarily adjust the penalty system every patch. At least that would keep the gamers on their toes guessing where the limits to the rules are. Currently, the gamers know exactly where the limits are, and are gaming the hell out of them to play the game.

 

[fastone371]

Nope, it's irrelevant. The "elite" still show up in my daily races from time to time and they are definitely there for FIA races. They only ones I see who are not overly aggressive are the ones that are so fast, they have no one to be aggressive toward.

The last round of FIA races that I participated in, nearly the entire field had incurred penalties and I often saw more than 5 seconds flashing over other drivers. I was also wrecked out of a race, in a similar fashion to my first video, and it was a complete rage quit thing. A player got passed and bumped off by plenty of others, then I came along. I was the car in his sights.

There are plenty of players who consider themselves "elite" and being competitive sometimes strikes a blow to their self image causing them to lash out. I see it often.


Still, as I have mentioned in other places, not playing daily races isn't a solution. It's not different that going off to play God of War as a solution. The problem exists in the daily races, which is the core focus of this game, and the only valid solution is one that is applied to the core focus of the game.

During FIA races if someones race gets ruined they may just randomly pick someone else's race to ruin too? If, and that's a big if, PD has the ability to identify the perp of a punt they could always choose to ghost them and restart them from the point of infraction, that would also kind of remove them from the fray they were in besides taking away the motivation and benefit of punting someone. PD really needs to punish the punters somehow because it's all but impossible to defend against

 

[Voodoovaj]

Here's another massive flaw with the entire system at the moment. If you touch someone and then go off track, they get a penalty. In this video, after I got punted in turn 1 (again) I had worked my way back through the field. Watch as I incur a 5 second penalty for my "dirty driving". FYI, because it might be hard to see it happen, after the Porsche touches me, he drives off track. That's when I got the penalty.

 

[fastone371]

Here's another massive flaw with the entire system at the moment. If you touch someone and then go off track, they get a penalty. In this video, after I got punted in turn 1 (again) I had worked my way back through the field. Watch as I incur a 5 second penalty for my "dirty driving". FYI, because it might be hard to see it happen, after the Porsche touches me, he drives off track. That's when I got the penalty.

It almost seems that PD is asking people to "game" the game. With stuff you pointed out and the bump draft penalties the penalty system is as bad as it's ever been right now, thanks for being on top of it PD!!!

 

[GTP_TO Blue]

Here's another massive flaw with the entire system at the moment. If you touch someone and then go off track, they get a penalty. In this video, after I got punted in turn 1 (again) I had worked my way back through the field. Watch as I incur a 5 second penalty for my "dirty driving". FYI, because it might be hard to see it happen, after the Porsche touches me, he drives off track. That's when I got the penalty.

That is what happened to me at Tokyo yesterday at the first set of esses under the bridge. A car comes in to quick behind me, nudges me around the corner, I hit nothing, they hit the armco.....AND I get the 5 second penalty!!!!

PD just don't care about the penalty system, as was shown by the comment regards the FIA races this past weekend.

 

[snakeismycat]

Can you imagine a totally realistic version where another player's actions (t-boning you, sending you into the wall) could basically erase your game/save?

I guess that would be pretty extreme and probably would lead to some abuse in some way or other.

I definitely think the car damage model needs to be more realistic. Players will use your car and drive over curbs, take shortcuts through chicanes, etc, and of course their tires never go flat, or do they damage their aero, or suspension, etc.

Bumps in real life affect the aero significantly to where in some series, it basically ends whatever chances you had for victory.

However, I've recently come to the realization that all this a balance to make the game accessible to the most amount of people.

When a race is abridged, as almost all races are in the game (who has 2-3 hours to play a game, in a single sitting? It's tough for pro drivers, and for most of us completely impossible) realism has to be compromised. The opportunities for passing, need to be heightened either by allowing catch up, or by minimizing damage.

I am approaching this in a realistic fashion. Aside from the fact that massive damage doesn't exist, it also doesn't prevent anything. In real life, it's not necessarily damage to the car people try to avoid as much as it's the potential for death. So, in keeping with that, massive slip ups like this should result in what is the closest thing to a player death in this game, which is a FULL reset of DR and SR. It's harsh, but it should be reserved for the most egregious infractions.

The infractions in this thread are definitely worth of an SR drop and immediate DR drop to correspond. If this player, or any of those in these videos, were dropped to DR D and SR B, they would likely either stop playing (problem solved) or they would be more careful next time (problem solved).



Yes. Now, if you watch the F1 docu-series on Netflix (the name escapes me at the moment) you'll see all drivers call other drivers dirty, even in F1. Aggression IS how you get through. That said, there has to be some degree of care taken, because as I mention above, the risk of death isn't present, so we need the next best thing.

 

[O604]

How about taking the car away?

Repeatedly hit people intentionally and "Your car has sustained heavy damage. It has been removed from your garage. Please go to Brand Central and purchase it again."

 

[Gamrac]

and what about this player who thinks he should hit everyone overtakes him?

 

[Voodoovaj]

@Gamrac brings up a great point, and I have echoed this point as well when it comes to damage being the answer.

Damage as an answer assumes the culprit wants to avoid damage. Damage as an answer also assumes people are good enough to avoid damage or even consider it to be a deterrent.

The famous Senna vs Prost altercation of 1990 is a great example. Senna didn't care about damage. Not to mention, potential damage doesn't seem like much a deterrent in the real world, ever. In GTS, as in the real world, the results will be the same. The person who least wanted damage will be the person who bears the brunt of it.

Racing is an aggressive sport. That is a fact that everyone needs to accept. What I am saying is that the folks that go out of their way to ruin your entire race should face a stiffer penalty.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

DR resets, SR loss, damage, taking cars away, disqualification, it all doesn't matter to those who don't care about those things. Although direct DQ after a deliberate (or careless) punt at least removes the troublemaker from the race. If you brake far too late (or far too early with no traffic ahead), get thrown out with a message, go practice some more before re-entering a race.

Penalties need to be higher as well. Even with the penalty zones, when you get punted off into the sand by a careless driver you end up losing 6 seconds or more, while they only lose 3 seconds in the penalty zone.

Bring the 10 second penalties back. The penalty system will still be wrong, often, yet at least you know that risking a penalty can ruin your race. There's far too much contact atm at Suzuka to call it racing. If that race had damage all the cars would be back in the pit at the end of lap 1 to get new spoilers.

 

[radix023]

The penalty system should be upgraded to detect flagrant fouls. The kinds of things that would cause ghosting in earlier versions to keep bad/unethical drivers from ruining the races of others. Those should be black flagged. Not 5 seconds, but your race is over, you are last.

The algorithm should also be upgraded to take history more into consideration when determining penalties. If you consistently make moves to avoid hits, even to your time detriment, then your "race karma" should go up and when there is an incident between someone with high karma and someone with low karma, the algorithm should lean towards the higher karma. Yes, that can be gamed to an extent, but it would be an improvement of the idiot savant we have currently.

I might be a wee bit peeved at having a clean race streak broken by unavoidable events caused by others.

I have an unbroken SR99 (from https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=search) streak because I strive to race clean and will yield rather than be "bump-passed". I just wish the system showed me the respect I show other racers.

An alternative solution would be to grant lobby racing the same standing as sport so that collections of "known good" drivers would be as fruitful as sport events.

An alternative solution would be to allow racers to "blackball" other racers, that is to flag specific SEN IDs as "will not race with" and have that respected by the matching algorithm. Cheap and easy for Polyphony.

Let's make GT Sport great for the racers with integrity and goodwill.

 

[seadog777]

you end up losing 6 seconds or more

At least! By the time you've finished spinning, come to a halt, the system notes you need a reset (that takes forever sometimes.... how do you speed that up? feet off the pedals, press the brake.... is there a trick to it???) and then got from zero to normal speed, I've seen my lap time increase by as much as 20 seconds! Race then basically over on a 4 lapper.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

At least! By the time you've finished spinning, come to a halt, the system notes you need a reset (that takes forever sometimes.... how do you speed that up? feet off the pedals, press the brake.... is there a trick to it???) and then got from zero to normal speed, I've seen my lap time increase by as much as 20 seconds! Race then basically over on a 4 lapper.

The system will reset you when you're almost back on the road

 

[fastone371]

At minimum PD needs to look into players who are repeatedly getting reported if people are using the report feature. I certainly hope they are using it but I also understand if you feel it's useless.

 

[ASH32]

At minimum PD needs to look into players who are repeatedly getting reported if people are using the report feature. I certainly hope they are using it but I also understand if you feel it's useless.

I don't use it often because without checking the replay it's possible you could blame the wrong person, like when you've been hit by someone who was way back but it turns out it was because some idiot hit them. I do use it however when I see someone who is deliberately interfering with races, like corner cutting before, or waiting on track for me to then try to ram me off, stuff like that. Would be nice to know if anything was ever done about it though.

 

[gtpierre]

I don't use it often because without checking the replay it's possible you could blame the wrong person, like when you've been hit by someone who was way back but it turns out it was because some idiot hit them.

Yeah, I stopped reporting when it is not an obvious huge rear punt or a side contact with deliberate pushing in straight line for this reason.
Now I just say " @-the name of the guy dirty driver reported" but I don't actually do it. I noticed several time that although it was a bit dirty, it did not look as bad as it "felt" and it could have been a mistake or just a normal racing contact.

I think the "report" feature needs to be changed, and we get only one "chance" to report per week/month, the report is registered and a video of all contacts involving the reporter and reported is automatically saved in said race. It is then viewed by some mod that decides what actions to take.
If you can give only one report per week, and that you get punished when wrongly reporting someone, people would only report real dirty driving. Punishment should be strong like the account is suspended for 1week, and SR and DR are reset to the lowest level.

Obviously this would require a big effort from PD, but higher DR ranks would become immediately clean.

 

[seadog777]

Perhaps the Australians here can help..... I was in one of the Ferrari races last week and overtook somebody who then went and punted me off, heavily, when I slowed for a corner.
I noted the name so I would know who to exact revenge on if I ever got the chance!
Obviously this driver had upset others (I think) because when the race finished, another driver who'd been a bit ahead of me (Australian) for most of the race sent him a message....@xxxxx dh
DH ..... dick head?? Or something else?

 

[radix023]

Perhaps the Australians here can help..... I was in one of the Ferrari races last week and overtook somebody who then went and punted me off, heavily, when I slowed for a corner.
I noted the name so I would know who to exact revenge on if I ever got the chance!
Obviously this driver had upset others (I think) because when the race finished, another driver who'd been a bit ahead of me (Australian) for most of the race sent him a message....@xxxxx dh
DH ..... dick head?? Or something else?

It's a classic Australian insult: Dumb Hand
It refers to someone who tried to catch a razor sharp boomerang and lost all their fingers.
</sarc>