Antifa/jews vs White nationalists/Nazis

  • Thread starter Novalee
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I am a progressive leftist. While I do agree with Antifa's general message (eliminating fascism in American Society), the modern Antifa group we see in the news is pretty disgusting as a whole. Of course there are some peaceful, well-intended members of the group, but too many are the exact opposite of that. Advocating for political violence, beating people up, vandalizing people's cars, smashing windows, burning things on fire, etc, is not the way to go no matter what the cause that's being advocated is.

That being said, white supremacist, neo-nazi, and neo-confederate groups have much more power and have caused way more damage in the US than Antifa has or ever will. We should be fearing them first and foremost; focusing our energy on "defeating Antifa" is only distracting from the real issue. More than likely, modern Antifa is little more than a protest to white supremacy in America under Trump, which is totally encourage, but they're going about it in an unproductive way. If white nationalist and other alt right groups aren't as active as they are, chances are there wouldn't be a need for Antifa to be so vocal, or even exist to begin with right now.
 
GranTurNismo
is not the way to go no matter what the cause that's being advocated is.
....
That being said, white supremacist, neo-nazi, and neo-confederate groups have much more power and have caused way more damage in the US
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You sound just like this:

"Look, I don't like Trump, but Hillary is so much worse."

When you find yourself apologizing for a "disgusting" group, you should re-evaluate what you're up to.
 
Danoff
You sound just like this:

"Look, I don't like Trump, but Hillary is so much worse."

When you find yourself apologizing for a "disgusting" group, you should re-evaluate what you're up to.
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I'm not really "apologizing" for Antifa as I have no affiliation with the group nor do I have any connection to atrocities committed by one of their members. I don't see how acknowledging that Antifa is bad while also recognizing that it's not the worst extremist group is problematic.
 
GranTurNismo
I'm not really "apologizing" for Antifa as I have no affiliation with the group nor do I have any connection to atrocities committed by one of their members. I don't see how acknowledging that Antifa is bad while also recognizing that it's not the worst extremist group is problematic.
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You're partial to the left, so you're trying to divert attention back toward criticisms of the right in order to play a political game that casts the left in the best light possible. Don't play.
 
Danoff
You're partial to the left, so you're trying to divert attention back toward criticisms of the right in order to play a political game that casts the left in the best light possible. Don't play.
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I disagree. First of all Antifa isn’t at all representative of the left as a whole, it’s a militant extremist group that happens to support a leftist cause. Basically all “normal” leftists hate Antifa too. Also, I’m not casting Antifa or the left in “the best light possible”. I literally condemned Antifa. All I am saying is, many on the right as well as “centrists” use so much energy being against Antifa but not as much energy being against white supremacist groups, despite the latter being much larger, powerful, and threatening. As I’ve said, if those groups weren’t so prevalent, Antifa wouldn’t be as prevalent either.
 
GranTurNismo
I disagree. First of all Antifa isn’t at all representative of the left as a whole, it’s a militant extremist group that happens to support a leftist cause. Basically all “normal” leftists hate Antifa too. Also, I’m not casting Antifa or the left in “the best light possible”. I literally condemned Antifa. All I am saying is, many on the right as well as “centrists” use so much energy being against Antifa but not as much energy being against white supremacist groups, despite the latter being much larger, powerful, and threatening. As I’ve said, if those groups weren’t so prevalent, Antifa wouldn’t be as prevalent either.
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You're still doing it.

Allow me to give you the corresponding right-wing apologist response to your left-wing apology:

I disagree. First of all neo-Nazis aren't at all representative of the right as a whole, it’s a militant extremist group that happens to support a right-wing cause. Basically all “normal” rightists hate neo-Nazis too. Also, I’m not casting neo-Nazis or the right in “the best light possible”. I literally condemned neo-Nazis. All I am saying is, many on the left as well as “centrists” use so much energy being against neo-Nazis but not as much energy being against left-wing militant extremist groups, despite the latter being much more dangerous. As I’ve said, if those groups weren’t so prevalent, neo-Nazis wouldn’t be as prevalent either.
 
^

It's an easy, boring, game to play. But few people refuse to play it, unfortunately. It doesn't lead anywhere, it's all babble and circular reasoning.
 
Why is it ok for big name Hollywood actors to make anti-semitic statements but when Mel Gibson get drunk once and does it he is black-listed for life?

Isn't it weird that polar opposite groups like Antifa, White supremacists, and former leaders like Mahmoud Amahdinejhad all seem to agree that Jews are evil? Similar ideologies maybe?
 
DDastardly00
Why is it ok for big name Hollywood actors to make anti-semitic statements but when Mel Gibson get drunk once and does it he is black-listed for life?
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Interesting that you picked the phrase "black-listed" since he dropped at least one n-bomb, and it was a bad one.
 
TenEightyOne
I don't understand. Isn't Mel Gibson a 'big name Hollywood actor'?
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He certainly was before he was black listed, anything after that would be a hard argument to make now. All the films he has done since are only because he owns Icon Productions, his own company that releases his films. Lucky for him he was filthy rich before he got black listed and was nearer to the end of his career than the start of it. I'm sure most that find themselves in a similar position aren't that lucky and certainly don't have resources at their disposal to resurrect their careers.
 
Danoff
Interesting that you picked the phrase "black-listed" since he dropped at least one n-bomb, and it was a bad one.
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Haven't heard that before, only saw his quotes from his drunken tirade about Jewish people when he was arrested.
 
Novalee
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/andy-ngo-right-wing-troll-antifa-877914/
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This the stupidest article ever written in The Rolling Stone.
When a milkshake to the face brought the spotlight on Andy Ngo, politicians and talking heads on both sides were happy to take on his cause: demonizing antifa
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Because they haven't done anything to deserve that, I guess?
It was that he’d managed to successfully convince so many ostensibly reasonable people otherwise, despite significant evidence to the contrary — and, in so doing, did some serious damage in the process.
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Not like the actual damage they've been filmed doing.
the man behind the Dayton, Ohio shooting was a member of antifa, despite the fact that there is no evidence he was involved in local activism or organizing.
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There's also no evidence I've been involved in local activism or organizing of the Proud Boys, so I'm clearly not a racist. But I do retweet and support them, and that's different.[/sarcasm]
The issue with this narrative is that this is verifiably not the case; though members of antifa have committed violent acts, that number is dwarfed by those committed by far-right extremists, says Hankes.
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Ah, the issue that was addressed by @Danoff above.
In the ever-expanding right-wing media ecosystem, there is plenty of room for trolls with a knack for video-editing software and gaming Twitter to find an audience, particularly if they are telling that audience what they know they want to hear.
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Because online manipulating is a right-wing tactic only....

I would feel embarrassed for sharing this garbage.
 
McLaren
I would feel embarrassed for sharing this garbage.
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should never feel embarrassed for the facts . it doesnt matter what peoples opinions are on subjects when the facts are out there . mr ngo was let go from his the media outlet because he lied .
 
Novalee
should never feel embarrassed for the facts . it doesnt matter what peoples opinions are on subjects when the facts are out there . mr ngo was let go from his the media outlet because he lied .
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These are manipulated facts that act like Antifa was done a disservice because someone misrepresented them.

You would be doing the opposite if it was an article pointing out how the Alt-Right has been made worse than it appears by a left-leaning figure.
 
McLaren
These are manipulated facts that act like Antifa was done a disservice because someone misrepresented them.

You would be doing the opposite if it was an article pointing out how the Alt-Right has been made worse than it appears by a left-leaning figure.
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I agree, but to be fair Trolling is much more prevelant on the right then on the left.
 
PocketZeven
I agree, but to be fair Trolling is much more prevelant on the right then on the left.
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I highly doubt there’s a recorded statistic of who trolls the other more. Google is one search away from purposely finding a place to troll a political side. Hell, you can find it all over Reddit political subs.
 
McLaren
I highly doubt there’s a recorded statistic of who trolls the other more. Google is one search away from purposely finding a place to troll a political side. Hell, you can find it all over Reddit political subs.
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You can doubt what you want, but websites like 4chan etc. just show a larging trolling presence at least online. Not saying the left doesnt do it. Every extreme group should be condemned.

Interesting related articles:

https://www.motherjones.com/politic...young-conservatives-to-win-the-next-meme-war/

https://bigthink.com/stephen-johnso...l-tweets-reveals-5-distinct-types-of-accounts

Apparantly Reddit is viewed more left then 4chan. Probably because 4chan is more anonomous.

edit: edited post
edit: added comment
 
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PocketZeven
I agree, but to be fair Trolling is much more prevelant on the right then on the left.
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You're funny!
Go to Facebook. Find a CNN story, go to the comments and you'll see right-wing trolls. Find a FOX story, go to the comments and you'll see left-wing trolls.
You can't hide your bias can you?
 
ryzno
You're funny!
Go to Facebook. Find a CNN story, go to the comments and you'll see right-wing trolls. Find a FOX story, go to the comments and you'll see left-wing trolls.
You can't hide your bias can you?
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Relax dude. I am a centrist. Extreme left-right are both bad.
the-political-spectrum-according-to-9gag-racists-libtards-nazis-pussies-14965289.png


But in my research rightwing trolls are more organised and much more aggressive. I will try to find more research related to this issue. But the articles I posted already paint such a picture.

edit: added pic
 
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GranTurNismo
I am a progressive leftist. While I do agree with Antifa's general message (eliminating fascism in American Society), the modern Antifa group we see in the news is pretty disgusting as a whole. Of course there are some peaceful, well-intended members of the group, but too many are the exact opposite of that. Advocating for political violence, beating people up, vandalizing people's cars, smashing windows, burning things on fire, etc, is not the way to go no matter what the cause that's being advocated is.

That being said, white supremacist, neo-nazi, and neo-confederate groups have much more power and have caused way more damage in the US than Antifa has or ever will. We should be fearing them first and foremost; focusing our energy on "defeating Antifa" is only distracting from the real issue. More than likely, modern Antifa is little more than a protest to white supremacy in America under Trump, which is totally encourage, but they're going about it in an unproductive way. If white nationalist and other alt right groups aren't as active as they are, chances are there wouldn't be a need for Antifa to be so vocal, or even exist to begin with right now.
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You're comparing the actions of a whole set of extremist groups with the actions of one. That's not a fair comparison. Of course multiple extremist groups are going to collectively commit more atrocities than just one.
 
PocketZeven
Relax dude. I am a centrist. Extreme left-right are both bad.
the-political-spectrum-according-to-9gag-racists-libtards-nazis-pussies-14965289.png


But in my research rightwing trolls are more organised and much more aggressive. I will try to find more research related to this issue. But the articles I posted already paint such a picture.

edit: added pic
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Fortunately for the extremists on the left, racism and Nazism are objectively identifiable. The terms "libtard" and "pussy" are just shallow insults. Being a pussy isn't prosecutable.
 

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