Any interest in a realistic clutch mod for the T500 pedals?

[JohnBodin]

A while back, a member of the InsideSimRacing.TV forums posted some pics of a spring-based clutch mod that he had put together -- you can view his post and pics here:

http://insidesimracing.tv/forums/topic/4180-bodin-load-cell-mod/?p=54688

I really liked the idea, but my work on the BLC-T500 Load Cell Mod showed me the inherent problems associated with trying to utilize an extra spring with the T500 pedal design.

I've been doing the preliminary research for a pneumatic brake mod for the T500, and while noodling around with ideas for that, it occurred to me that a pneumatic clutch mod would be very do-able, and the end result should feel fairly realistic (or at least considerably better than the stock clutch on the T500 pedals).

I'm ready to start ordering parts for my initial prototype, and if I can get the design I have in mind to work the way I envision, I may offer it up as a fully developed mod for those who want a bolt-on-and-drive option if there's enough interest.

On the plus side, this would purely be a mechanical mod -- no modification to the electronics would be required, and, hence, no custom interface box like I'm using on my BLC-T500 Load Cell Mod. That's good, because it will help keep the cost down . . . and unfortunately, the parts cost seems a bit high already.

To give you an idea of my definition of "a bit high," it looks like parts alone (not counting shipping/taxes) will run around $55 or so. Not bad, but that doesn't include miscellaneous hardware like nuts, bolts, screws, washers, metal stock for mounting brackets, drilling, etc..

Thankfully, the mounting scheme I have in mind is pretty simple -- nothing elaborate, and like the BLC-T500 it will be a simple bolt-on design, with no modification (drilling, cutting, etc.) required for the T500 pedals.

Assuming my prototype works as planned, if there's enough interest I would be willing to sell this as a ready-to-install kit alongside the BLC-T500 Load Cell Mod.

Since the design is fairly straightforward, I may also just simply release "DIY" instructions for those folks who don't mind ordering parts and building something up themselves.

So, if you think you'd be interested in something like this, let me know -- I would welcome some discussion around the basic idea of improving the clutch pedal feel for the T500 pedals.

 

[NeoAgent]

As I stated on the insidesimracing forum I'm definitely interested. While my mod works it just does not provide a very realistic feel. I'd love something a little more sophisticated and which also would supply a better feel. I'd be interested in a finished product or even in the DIY route. Looking forward this.

 

[mrbasher]

I think it's a good idea but it needs to have less of a drastic transition. The CSP V2 for instance has a very harsh transition, kind of a pop feeling. This is not great in my opinion.

If a larger arc is used for the cam, this would be less exaggerated.

 

[JohnBodin]

I think it's a good idea but it needs to have less of a drastic transition. The CSP V2 for instance has a very harsh transition, kind of a pop feeling. This is not great in my opinion.

If a larger arc is used for the cam, this would be less exaggerated.

No cam involved in my envisioned design -- just a pneumatic cylinder. If I can make it work the way I want it to work, it should feel much more realistic and less harsh than the CSP V2 clutch.

Of course, vision doesn't always translate into reality, which is why I need to order some parts . . .

 

[NeoAgent]

No cam involved in my envisioned design -- just a pneumatic cylinder. If I can make it work the way I want it to work, it should feel much more realistic and less harsh than the CSP V2 clutch.

Of course, vision doesn't always translate into reality, which is why I need to order some parts . . .

I volunteer to be a guinea pig for testing if you need one.

 

[JohnBodin]

I volunteer to be a guinea pig for testing if you need one.

I'll keep you in mind, little piggie (especially since you were my initial inspiration with your spring mod)!

 

[Dean]

I must admit, it does sound tempting... Now I just need to get a shifter .

 

[LogiForce]

John, I would be very interested in this pneumatic mod.
This for both the brake and clutch, as I like the potmeter analog type read out more than loadcells or hall sensors.
Maybe it's Fanatec's implementation of these two sensor types, but after having used both the CSPv1 and V2 and coming back to the T500 pedals with pots; I like the pots beter. The reason being that the Clubsports tend to waver and/or spike a bit on the readout (even replaced every sensor (load and hall) on my V2's already). The pots on the T500 don't have this and are very stable and clean. I just don't like Fanatec's free ABS system I guess. lol

To get back on topic, I think what Basher said holds ground. What I did to dampen that clutch a bit was to add a double layer of double sided tape I had lying about to cushion the impact a bit. Also to reduce the "pop" from going over the 'apex' of the that clutch action I increased the spring pre-load a bit, which did the trick but made it feel too heavy.

Anyway, I would a pneumatic system for both brake and clutch instead of the spring based system, if possible. Maybe I will hold off a bit longer on the hydraulic pedals that way.

Of course I always love to test things, though shipping to the Netherlands of guinea pig parts might get a bit expensive.

 

[KingKlingeling]

I'm very interrested too , give me an pm if you got further Informations .
Regards, Matthias

 

[Germinator]

Very interested in this too. Keep us updated with pics and all the trials and tribulations you experienced lol

 

[JohnBodin]

Very interested in this too. Keep us updated with pics and all the trials and tribulations you experienced lol

Oh, there WILL be pics . . . and hopefully not much in the way of trials and tribulations!

 

[KingKlingeling]

Just realized that you are john bodin ;-) are they any Informations when your t500 brake mod is available again ? Want it so Bad , also the clutch of course .
Regards Matthias

 

[LogiForce]

John, do you have a rough idea on how long it will take you to develop this? I am not in a rush, but just curious.

 

[JohnBodin]

John, do you have a rough idea on how long it will take you to develop this? I am not in a rush, but just curious.

Shouldn't take long at all -- either it's going to work or it won't (seriously, not trying to be funny or snarky).

The only hitch could be finding the correct pneumatic cylinder -- if I have to go larger than what I've envisioned, then the mounting method may get more tricky.

So, the development should be fairly quick once I order the parts (hope to get that done over the weekend or early next week).

 

[JohnBodin]

Just realized that you are john bodin ;-) are they any Informations when your t500 brake mod is available again ? Want it so Bad , also the clutch of course .
Regards Matthias

I hope to have more available for general public sale by the end of this month.

One small issue is the availability of load cell amps from Leo Bodnar -- he's currently out of stock, so that will affect my ability to order parts for the next production run.

On the plus side, I think I've found a way to switch over to Derek Speare's load cell amps, which include an adjustment pot -- Derek's amps are a little more expensive than Leo's boards so that might mean a price increase, but you would get additional functionality in the form of the adjustment pot to offset the cost.

I may even be able to provide for remote mounting of the adjustment pot, as in on your wheel or in your cockpit, so you wouldn't have to reach down and fiddle with the pedals to adjust the pot.

That's taking up a little development effort now, which is contributing to the production delays, but it should be worth the delay, I think (hope!).

 

[LogiForce]

Shouldn't take long at all -- either it's going to work or it won't (seriously, not trying to be funny or snarky).

The only hitch could be finding the correct pneumatic cylinder -- if I have to go larger than what I've envisioned, then the mounting method may get more tricky.

So, the development should be fairly quick once I order the parts (hope to get that done over the weekend or early next week).

That sounds pretty quick indeed. Can't wait.
So I reckon you'll try different cylinders for both brake and clutch?

Reminds me of Takiei using a mountainbike damper on the clubsports. Let me grab the link (will edit the post in a bit).

(On a personal note... this spring will be busy with all the rig improvement projects I have planned/am slowly working on)

Edit:
This kind of cylinder...

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/rmjhj650/folder/529073.html?m=lc&p=2

 

[JohnBodin]

That sounds pretty quick indeed. Can't wait.
So I reckon you'll try different cylinders for both brake and clutch?

That's the plan, but with the T500 pedals, if you want to retain the ability to invert the pedals, the cylinder length becomes the critical dimension, and going with larger cylinders seems to mean using something longer than what I have in mind, so finding the right combo for the brake is going to be a bit more tricky, I think. Clutch cylinder will be less critical, and if the item I have selected to prototype with works as planned, it's going to be an easy prototype (fingers crossed).

Reminds me of Takiei using a mountainbike damper on the clubsports. Let me grab the link (will edit the post in a bit).

(On a personal note... this spring will be busy with all the rig improvement projects I have planned/am slowly working on)

Edit:
This kind of cylinder...

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/rmjhj650/folder/529073.html?m=lc&p=2

Yup -- very similar to what I have in mind (different mounting, but same idea overall).

 

[LogiForce]

That's the plan, but with the T500 pedals, if you want to retain the ability to invert the pedals, the cylinder length becomes the critical dimension, and going with larger cylinders seems to mean using something longer than what I have in mind, so finding the right combo for the brake is going to be a bit more tricky, I think. Clutch cylinder will be less critical, and if the item I have selected to prototype with works as planned, it's going to be an easy prototype (fingers crossed).

Yup -- very similar to what I have in mind (different mounting, but same idea overall).

When you put it through google translate and go to page one you can see some of his latest creations. Also the damper he uses on the brake says 200psi on one of the pictures. Which might be interesting for you? I dunno.

Anyways, I am crossing fingers, legs, toes and if I could my eye brows (although people would think I am doing funny faces again).

 

[VetteZR1]

As someone who owns and enjoys your brake mod, I say go for it. Hope it's as popular.

 

[Mayaman]

I think it's a good idea but it needs to have less of a drastic transition. The CSP V2 for instance has a very harsh transition, kind of a pop feeling. This is not great in my opinion.

If a larger arc is used for the cam, this would be less exaggerated.

I took my Porsche of storage yesterday and noticed how similar it is to the Clubsport V2 clutch, while my Crossfire clutch was much softer. So it depends on the car really. I'm all for people making new mods!

 

[JohnBodin]

I took my Porsche of storage yesterday and noticed how similar it is to the Clubsport V2 clutch, while my Crossfire clutch was much softer. So it depends on the car really. I'm all for people making new mods!

If my prototype concept works, the "break-over" point may be tunable, to allow the user to adjust the feel to some degree at least.

 

[Germinator]

If my prototype concept works, the "break-over" point may be tunable, to allow the user to adjust the feel to some degree at least.

Fantastic.

 

[Germinator]

ANy updates?

 

[JohnBodin]

No progress yet -- ordered the wrong air cylinder, haven't had time to re-order the correct part.

 

[LogiForce]

I hope you're getting that new part soon, John. It should be around two weeks since you ordered it next week I guess.

 

[JohnBodin]

I hope you're getting that new part soon, John. It should be around two weeks since you ordered it next week I guess.

Got it, playing around with it . . . not sure it's going to give me the effect I was looking for. I think it can be done, but it may take a larger cylinder than what I have had in mind (and larger than what I ordered), and if that's the case, then the mounting scheme becomes more tricky.

Still puzzling things out, this one's still alive and well.

 

[JohnBodin]

Okay, here's the latest update on this: I've been forced to go back to the drawing board somewhat on my initial concept -- the pneumatic cylinder that I originally obtained has proven to be too small to do what I want it to do, so now I need to procure a larger pneumatic cylinder to see if THAT will work. The downside is that the original cylinder was the ideal form factor length-wise, and going with a larger pneumatic cylinder may mean tweaking my mounting concept a bit.

So, my project's not dead, but my initial attempt didn't yield the results I was looking for. Now comes phase 2, where I procure some different cylinders and try to find one that works the way I need it to work, while making sure it can mount the way I want it to mount.

 

[VetteZR1]

Keep plugging away John. If the clutch mod turns out as good as the brake mod your hard work will be worth it.

 

[Germinator]

thanks for the update

 

[JohnBodin]

Quick update -- I ordered another pneumatic cylinder that might work. This one is longer than my initial prototype, so the mounting scheme will be less ideal than the initial cylinder that I sourced, but hopefully this larger one will actually do what I want it to do.

I'm actually going to have to re-think the mounting scheme a bit due to the size, but if it works, it will be worth the extra effort and fabrication, I think.

Fingers crossed!