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Apocalypse now
- Thread starter Carl.
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- 492
The FIA aren't doing this for safety reasons, they need a scape goat other than themselves, as they always do, IMO. Its not like Michilin did not have the ability to provide a safe tire, they just got it wrong for this one, anyone can make mistakes, okay, you expect a better level of preperation for F1 but it does happen. The FIA could have let them run the different tires left over from a previous round (cant remember which one), im not saying they should have, I think they made the right decision on that one, but the option was there.
And although the proposed chicane was probably unfair on the Bridgestone teams (and nobody knows this, it could have been an advantage, you never know) the FIA reasoned that it was unfair to do so just becuase a manufactuer provided a product with less 'performance' than its rival would be unfair. Maybe im a bit simple minded but um, wasnt this a matter of safety more so than performance?
And although the proposed chicane was probably unfair on the Bridgestone teams (and nobody knows this, it could have been an advantage, you never know) the FIA reasoned that it was unfair to do so just becuase a manufactuer provided a product with less 'performance' than its rival would be unfair. Maybe im a bit simple minded but um, wasnt this a matter of safety more so than performance?
- 597
well this issue is simple, i have read almost everything about it by now that has been released since i'm a big f1 fan, bit from what i see:Blake
1.michellin f-ed up by making crap tires.
2.the fia would not compromise with the michellin teams which would be an unfair advantage to the bridgetone teams.
3.the team decided to boycott the GP, because of the safety issue posed by the crap tires, but also as a way to oppose to the FIA.
4. since ferrari is one of the f1 teams who Actually Ran The GP, some idiot decided that "errb look ferrari ran so its a conspiracy to make ferrari win a gp becuase they've had subpar season, because we hate em eerb."
i think there is seriously lots of blame to go around, so i'm not gonna start pointing fingers, but the facts are clear.
- 127
It's amazing what they are trying to come up with to get MS and Ferrari back in the fight for the title. It's all a matter of money. They ( Ferrari and MS) do attract big crowds in Italy and Germany who'd pay big money to see the GP's. Why do we have 2 races in Germany and 2 in Italy ? Ferrari should be punished for giving teamorders in the US GP but then again they always get away with anything for some years now. MS driving Heidfeld off in Australia this year is a another nice example. Montoya gets punished for every move he makes.
MagpieRacer
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- Wymondham, Norfolk
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this is a bad situation, why cant the michelin cars be told to use bridgstone should the worst happen with michelin..
- 127
Michelin makes one error and what I am talking about is the FIA's reaction to it and their actions. Look at the past, look at Interlagos 2003 when Bridgestone brought unsafe tires for the circumstances and how they reacted to that. Open your eyes man. What do you think about the teamorders ? It' s pretty clear Barrichello had to back off once again. Things always get twisted in favor of MS and Ferrari.amp88
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Raf Laureys
Things are a bit different in rain, remember. Things like monsoon rain can be unpredictable, there have been times in the past where the cars have had to start behind the safety car, or the race has been delayed/cancelled because of weather. However, this situation is different. Michelin weren't prepared for the track.
Honestly, I think it's funny you even think it's possible that Michelin would lie down to something like this. They wouldn't take the hit on their reputation just to let Ferrari win. Not to mention all the other teams, who you can be sure aren't going to let Ferrari win. Not to mention the huge safety risk in having 11 tyres fail, Ralf Schumacher's failing at high speed and making him miss the 'race'. Have you seen the film Conspiracy?
edit: Beaten to it by Blake
- 127
I am not saying Michelin would let Ferrari win. what kind of sense would that make??? Michelin didn't had a save tire for Indy (turn 13) and they payed the price : 0 points for all their teams. I am saying that further action against Michelin by the FIA is taking tings too far. Michelin has had its bad publicity and now the Championship should continue without further actions against Michelin or the teams running Michelins " because their tires should be unsafe". Every tiremanufacturer can have tires fail at some point specially with this seasons rules ,remember Barcelona ? You could argue about it but I'd say the Ferrari's Bridgestones were unsafe there too right? I haven't heard of the FIA investigating Bridgestone for that matter. Like I said in my first post in this threat, they are doing everything to get F&MS back into the fight for the title if the rumours from grandprix.com are true of course. I wouldn't be surprised, I've seen enough. Remember Shum crossing the white line leaving the pits in Monaco this year. They showed it a few times in replay. Not the slightest penalty for Shum. If your name is Montoya and you do that you can be shure to get a penalty...amp88
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Yes I am a pretty big IDIOT for still wathing F1!EvilToast
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EvilToast
Let's be fair here...
Michelin never tested on the new surface until the Friday.
Bridgestone - through "affiliate" Firestone - tested on the new surface several months ago. Their first test session was aborted because... the new surface was killing the tyres.
So when they got to Indy, Bridgestone knew that their tyres would work on the new surface. Michelin had never run a yard on the new surface and had no way of knowing.
Bridgestone merely got an R&D leap thanks to Firestone. Now, there's no reason at all that Bridgestone should be required to share that data, but wouldn't you think that if there was a serious safety issue to 14 men (and, conceivably, all 20, if one had lost it alongside Michael Bananaface) they would have done?
Nevertheless, they didn't. They aren't really to blame for this. Michelin's tyres failed due to unforeseen - and unforeseeable - circumstances. They aren't really to blame either.
The problem occurred when 10 teams and the FIA came to decide what to do about it.
- 212
Michelins two big mistakes where:
1. The sidewalls on their tires where not strong enough for turn 13, the flexing was making the cars bottom-out through the turn.
2. They didn't bring safe tires to the race in case the high performance tires run in to problems like they did at Indy.
The FIA only made one, they failed to recognize that this situation was a threat to the race. Instead of solving the problem with a chicane (I'm thinking that a double chicane would be required since turn 13 is a very long corner) which would saved the race (the argument that this would be unfair to the Bridgestone teams could be solved by moving the Michelin teams to the back of the grid and forcing each Michelin runner to take a 10 second stop and go once during the race). Instead of working towards a solution Max turns this in to a political slug fest, offering Michelin three terms, of which none is safer then installing a chicane. I wouldn't call it far fetched to say that this would have never happened if there wasn't a power struggle between the FIA and the big car manufacturers that threaten to break away from F1 to make their own series where they get to call all the shots. They just happened to be Michelin runners (BMW, Merc, Toyota, Honda, Renault etc.) The idea of a series where the manufacturers are in charge makes me cringe, it would collapse if one team starts to dominate as the rest could not justify spending that much money and not be competitive. The FIA will still be around if that happens in F1 but if the manufacturers leave from their own series then that that. Max on the other hand seems to be doing his best to make this a breakup reality. It doesn't take much more then this for the teams to get the idea that they are better of without Bernie, Max and the FIA.
Motorsports.com has a really nice article from an ex-Good Year PR guy about what Michelin did what they did and why they couldn't have done it any other way once they found out they had a problem with their tire: http://www.motorsport.com/magazine/feature.asp?C=Musings&D=2005-06-21
1. The sidewalls on their tires where not strong enough for turn 13, the flexing was making the cars bottom-out through the turn.
2. They didn't bring safe tires to the race in case the high performance tires run in to problems like they did at Indy.
The FIA only made one, they failed to recognize that this situation was a threat to the race. Instead of solving the problem with a chicane (I'm thinking that a double chicane would be required since turn 13 is a very long corner) which would saved the race (the argument that this would be unfair to the Bridgestone teams could be solved by moving the Michelin teams to the back of the grid and forcing each Michelin runner to take a 10 second stop and go once during the race). Instead of working towards a solution Max turns this in to a political slug fest, offering Michelin three terms, of which none is safer then installing a chicane. I wouldn't call it far fetched to say that this would have never happened if there wasn't a power struggle between the FIA and the big car manufacturers that threaten to break away from F1 to make their own series where they get to call all the shots. They just happened to be Michelin runners (BMW, Merc, Toyota, Honda, Renault etc.) The idea of a series where the manufacturers are in charge makes me cringe, it would collapse if one team starts to dominate as the rest could not justify spending that much money and not be competitive. The FIA will still be around if that happens in F1 but if the manufacturers leave from their own series then that that. Max on the other hand seems to be doing his best to make this a breakup reality. It doesn't take much more then this for the teams to get the idea that they are better of without Bernie, Max and the FIA.
Motorsports.com has a really nice article from an ex-Good Year PR guy about what Michelin did what they did and why they couldn't have done it any other way once they found out they had a problem with their tire: http://www.motorsport.com/magazine/feature.asp?C=Musings&D=2005-06-21
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AGREEFamine
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Revolution 909
In fact they did. And they had the same issues.
Michelin could not have been expected to predict this as they do not - and are not allowed to - test at this track. Only Firestone had seen the new surface.
Revolution 909
After three days with no chicane there, suddenly planting one would have been downright dangerous. Then there's the integrity of the barrier to worry about - if someone hit it, what would happen to it?
Revolution 909
Without wishing to ascribe to conspiracy theory, that situation is currently in place.
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Famine
If I understood it correctly the "Safe tires" Michelin brought where the "Barcelona spec" race tires and not ones that provide additional safety margins at the expense of cutting-edge performance.
Famine
If this was handled quickly there could have been a chicane there by Saturday, leaving plenty of time to run a test session. If not they could have pushed back the race to this week or delayed the race until there was a solution to the problem.
- 597
i dont dispute the saftey issue, but what makes me angry is that people imply that all of the sudden its MS ferrari and bridgetones fault that michellin screwed up. that makes no sense at all to me, as much as i think the FIA are idiots i doubt they would favor one guy or one team over the rest, yes they are morons, but remember not everyone is a ferrari fan, and fans = money. 💡
By the way GOO FERRAI w00t MS rules.
By the way GOO FERRAI w00t MS rules.
- 127
That man knows what he is talking about. The fact that the FIA wants to take further action against Michelin is unacceptable but it doesn't surprise me.westwood
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- ORLEANS - FRANCE
- snypanyx
Raf Laureys
At the present time, no actions were taken, so we whould wait before judging real facts.
If you were less inspired by the "conspiracy theory", you would have understood that the FIA is currently doing some crisis communication, a thing used in every company when a serious problem occurs. It's done in order to calm down the 150000 spectators (and lots of others) that got fooled for 150$.
I really doubt the FIA would penalize the Michelin teams , for example by cutting some points off, that would sink the championship credibility down.
As for the money, it's a whole different thing, somebody will have to pay the bill....
It's also clear that the FIA wants to have a "gently" discussion with the teams that decided together to create a coalition against it. If you were the king, and realized that some of your servants are planning something against you, you would certainly react....I don't say this is fair, especially as I consider that the unique tire regulation was a bad choice (and some of us have discussed about it 2 months ago), but don't expect the FIA to apologize now, especially as Michelin did an enormous mistake.
Also to consider, the FIA would like to have only one tire manufacturer for the 2008 set of rules....
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