Are the penalties too extreme at Le Mans?

[TheGeologist]

The following clip starts with a penalty already displayed of 1.206 seconds. This penalty was given when I over charged a corner and cut. I don't agree with it, but it isn't the one I am the most concerned with.

The penalty in question is a small cut of two tires off, and while I agree it is cutting (and I do applaud PD for stiffer track limits) however, some of the penalties I have received are excessive in the length of the penalty. For this small cut, my penalty jumps from 1.206 to 11.187, an increase of 9.981 seconds. Please note: I run wide, but the penalty for the cut is already given before I run wide. See the slow motion replay at the end of the clip.

Isn't this a bit excessive? I was shocked when it happened during the race, and was not aware I had made a minor cut until review of the replay. I can agree this is cutting, but a 9.9 second penalty is simply egregious. I didn't even knock the cone down...

Clip:


EDIT: For those wondering if this penalty is handed down so severely because I had already received numerous penalties, this is not the case. I will upload the full clip momentarily.

I do not agree with the first penalty either, but at least it is a small enough penalty I can burn.

Notes: I was Sr A in this race, and finally reachieved Sr S after a few days of bad luck and mistakes. I am generally a Sr S driver and if I do fall out of S, I quickly recover. I fell down to Sr C and was nearly reset, but after deciding not to race these knuckleheads by becoming car-phobic (following advice from @daan, @Famine and others) I was able to return to Sr S where I belong.

Full clip up until the moment of penalty (Both penalties occur after the 3:54 mark)

 

[K32]

It's very strange, the limits at Le Mans are unlike any other track. I was expecting it to be similar to Monza (so that you can take the corner just like you did without getting a penalty), but this is much too excessive. Using the rumble strip after the Dunlop chicane, surprisingly, gives you a penalty.

Perhaps they were basing track limits from the way Kobayashi drives (pretty much matches everywhere you can go without getting a penalty):


I also thought people could use the Dunlop chicane more, but it seems PD is doing the right thing keeping the limits as close as possible to real life:


Also the final (Ford) chicane. Looks exactly how you need to get it in GT (for a better angle, just refer to Kamui's lap):


As for the penalties, I think they are a bit extreme, what you got was way too much.

EDIT: And you get a penalty for using the rumble strip , I honestly think that that penalty was not deserved, but hey, limits are limits.

 

[TheGeologist]

It's very strange, the limits at Le Mans are unlike any other track. I was expecting it to be similar to Monza (so that you can take the corner just like you did without getting a penalty), but this is much too excessive. Using the rumble strip after the Dunlop chicane, surprisingly, gives you a penalty.

Perhaps they were basing track limits from the way Kobayashi drives (pretty much matches everywhere you can go without getting a penalty):


I also thought people could use the Dunlop chicane more, but it seems PD is doing the right thing keeping the limits as close as possible to real life:


Also the final (Ford) chicane. Looks exactly how you need to get it in GT (for a better angle, just refer to Kamui's lap):


As for the penalties, I think they are a bit extreme, what you got was way too much.

I'm able to agree that I cut, I just can't agree the punishment fits the crime.

I was in a chat with a friend during the race, and I was talking during the penalty. When I received it, I stopped mid sentence.

He was like "what's wrong?". I said "I just got a turn second penalty, but no cars are around me!" I had thought at first I had received a flat 10 second penalty which is usually given out when you push someone off course. Obviously this wasn't possible as I had large gaps in front and behind me.

EDIT: And you get a penalty for using the rumble strip , I honestly think that that penalty was not deserved, but hey, limits are limits.

Yeah I'm not too thrilled with either of them. I applaud PDs efforts for strict limits, but these are borderline at best, and the latter penalty is too lengthy to fit the cut.

 

[Epic B]

I think they should be a bit more lenient with penalties. Even if the track limits remain strict the penalties are excessive.

 

[vxr58]

Without doubt, yes. Did three races yesterday and I learnt new swear words I was getting that upset with the penalties. I was bright red with veins bursting out of my face by the last race.

 

[Nuschel01]

They‘re ridiculous imho

I tried to check how many penalties you can rack up in one lap when cutting every corner

Spoiler

8 Minutes!!!

 

[sundaydriving]

I disagree. These two limits are fine and the penalties don't seem overly harsh. The first one is definitely proportionate. The 2nd one, 10s, is debatable. Penalty yes, 10s, maybe. Theres a lot of time to be found if you just power through that corner ignoring limits, but the limit has to be set somewhere. Lesson learned? Don't push the limits?

 

[kjeldsen]

The following clip starts with a penalty already displayed of 1.206 seconds. This penalty was given when I over charged a corner and cut. I don't agree with it, but it isn't the one I am the most concerned with.

The penalty in question is a small cut of two tires off, and while I agree it is cutting (and I do applaud PD for stiffer track limits) however, some of the penalties I have received are excessive in the length of the penalty. For this small cut, my penalty jumps from 1.206 to 11.187, an increase of 9.981 seconds. Please note: I run wide, but the penalty for the cut is already given before I run wide. See the slow motion replay at the end of the clip.

Isn't this a bit excessive? I was shocked when it happened during the race, and was not aware I had made a minor cut until review of the replay. I can agree this is cutting, but a 9.9 second penalty is simply egregious. I didn't even knock the cone down...

Clip:


EDIT: For those wondering if this penalty is handed down so severely because I had already received numerous penalties, this is not the case. I will upload the full clip momentarily.

I do not agree with the first penalty either, but at least it is a small enough penalty I can burn.

Notes: I was Sr A in this race, and finally reachieved Sr S after a few days of bad luck and mistakes. I am generally a Sr S driver and if I do fall out of S, I quickly recover. I fell down to Sr C and was nearly reset, but after deciding not to race these knuckleheads by becoming car-phobic (following advice from @daan, @Famine and others) I was able to return to Sr S where I belong.

Full clip up until the moment of penalty (Both penalties occur after the 3:54 mark)

The problem with the Le Mans track is not punishing people for getting of track, that imho is a given and is not worth complaining about. One problem is that the track has lots of valid runoff areas that does not yield an advantage, rather the opposite, and those areas are legal on the real track.

The real problem is that the Le Mans track takes everything we have learned about track limits over the past 12 months and throws it out!
Before it was: 2 wheels on the track, including the curbs/rumble areas and you are good.. Now it differs on every corner on Circuit de la Sarthe.

It is stupid.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

The penalties are harsh, the worst I've seen is the last part of the Porsche curves, if you take it too fast you can run wide on the exit and get a 2s pen. If you turn in too soon (by inches) it's a 20s penalty and SR drop.

The real problem is that the Le Mans track takes everything we have learned about track limits over the past 12 months and throws it out!
Before it was: 2 wheels on the track, including the curbs/rumble areas and you are good.. Now it differs on every corner on Circuit de la Sarthe.

It is stupid.

From memory this was catching people out on GT6 too, the track limits are the white lines but at the chicanes there is near enough a full car width inside before you get to the curb. It means what you initially think is the racing line is actually corner cutting.

 

[Macboyilija]

Always 2 wheels on the track !! So 100% clear penalty. Should be on EVERY track. We were complaining about unclean track limits for months. Finally a simple rule which is implemented as it should be and still people are discussing and complaining. Has never been easier as this: always 2 wheels on the track. Always.

Now please PD just continue this strategy on all tracks and we can finally close these useless discussions.

 

[Chemenu]

I disagree. These two limits are fine and the penalties don't seem overly harsh. The first one is definitely proportionate. The 2nd one, 10s, is debatable. Penalty yes, 10s, maybe. Theres a lot of time to be found if you just power through that corner ignoring limits, but the limit has to be set somewhere. Lesson learned? Don't push the limits?

A 10s penalty is nothing but total BS. Even a 3s penalty is ruining your race completely.

Cutting corners intentionally must pe penalized, I'm totally fine with that.
But I think there should be one warning for every player before penalties are enforced.
And even then, the first penalty should be more like 0.5s or 1s and then stack up. The more penalties you get the more time you will have to slow down.
That would be a simple and fair penalty system. There's no turn you can gain 10s by corner cutting.
And everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Going wide unintenionally and getting a 5s penalty on top is absurd and not proportional punishment.

 

[iFerrari]

If you do the racing line drivers do irl you get penalties in game, that pretty much sums it up.

 

[JalkePeters]

Cutting corners panaltys are broken now. Even when you make a brake mistake you will get punished and at the start of a race i get a warning and then when made a mistake i get kicked out of the race

 

[eAxis Patohm]

10 sec. Penalty is not 10 sec. time lose anyway - more like 3.5 sec. depending on you efficience. But i agree, PD is very HARD on this, so we should adapt and respect the Limits at all costs! Thats what they want!

 

[GT6mebe]

The track limits are perfect. They mimic how real drivers drive through the track. Just look at the world record holder who does a 3:14.

Le Mans is a very fast track, so players who get an extra bit of runway can eventually lead to seconds shaved off.

OP you cut that corner before the straight by placing two wheels on the curb. Only one is allowed. This is different from other GT tracks where two wheels on the curb is allowed.

That being said the time you get for some of these penalties is way too harsh.

 

[KK78]

I was under the impression that kerbs were within track limits? Do drivers get penalties for using the kerbs in real life? (and no I'm not talking about the whole car been on the kerb but rather 2 wheels)

Thought not.

Cutting corners is not the same as using the depth of a kerb to get the fastest line through a corner, so yes I personally believe the penalties on La Sarthe are, at this point, too strict, particularly when compared to other tracks in the same game so some consistency would be ideal.

 

[GT6mebe]

I was under the impression that kerbs were within track limits? Do drivers get penalties for using the kerbs in real life?

Thought not.

Cutting corners is not the same as using the depth of a kerb to get the fastest line through a corner, so yes I personally believe the penalties on La Sarthe are, at this point, too strict, particularly when compared to other tracks in the same game so some consistency would be ideal.

You rarely see drivers consistently place 2 wheels on the kerb at Le Mans. If the lap record holder doesn't do it why do you need to?

 

[mthomas_95]

Some of the penalty times are just silly, just like Monza when it launched when you'd get an 8 second penalty for brushing the first part of Ascari. I saw a 12 second penalty once for cutting the first apex of the Ford Chicane, nevermind the other 3

That said I was able after an hour or so to predict if I got a penalty or not in hotlapping pretty accurately, even at Tetre Rouge which is an absolute knife edge (NEVER cut the inside, go out as far as the drain on the outside). Indianapolis and Arnage needs a rework, that was the only part for me where the penalties felt like a lottery.

Protip: The short straight between Indy and Arnage you can scrub a lot of the penalty away for very little laptime loss.

 

[KK78]

You rarely see drivers consistently place 2 wheels on the kerb at Le Mans. If the lap record holder doesn't do it why do you need to?

But when a driver at Le Mans in real life DOES put 2 wheels on a kerb, does he get a penalty? No he does not.

As for the lap record holder, I'd wager he is a highly talented racing driver while I'm merely an office worker who is playing a video game for fun Not to mention the risks, in real life of riding kerbs at 150+mph is somewhat potentially more catastrophic than in a game.

I get your argument but it's not consistent in the game, some kerbs dish out a penalty, others don't. It's a long, long track and I personally don't fancy doing lap after lap on a treasure hunt to find out where the penalties are and where they are not and then start trying to improve times and technique. Particularly when other tracks to not remotely share the same characteristics. In addition, when racing other drivers and a situation arises where you need to leave some room but the only room you have is a kerb do you hit the other driver or hit the kerb?

Time will tell but I'll bet you a pint right now that PD will nerf the penalties

 

[TheGeologist]

Always 2 wheels on the track !! So 100% clear penalty. Should be on EVERY track. We were complaining about unclean track limits for months. Finally a simple rule which is implemented as it should be and still people are discussing and complaining. Has never been easier as this: always 2 wheels on the track. Always.

Now please PD just continue this strategy on all tracks and we can finally close these useless discussions.

Were we all? I've been happy with how it was. Now its confusing because each track is very different.

The track limits are perfect. They mimic how real drivers drive through the track. Just look at the world record holder who does a 3:14.

Well if I had those skills I wouldn't be a geologist lol

That being said the time you get for some of these penalties is way too harsh.

Well that's my major complaint. The 9 second penalty is ludicrous. I am okay with that being cutting (even though I don't necessarily agree) but to have been given such a large penalty for accidentally turning a fraction of a second too early... that's ludicrous.

Protip: The short straight between Indy and Arnage you can scrub a lot of the penalty away for very little laptime loss.

My penalty was above 10s. Any penalty above 10s will start to increase so I immediately burned in under 10 so it wouldn't go up

 

[kilesa4568]

You've got to laugh at a penalty algorithm that's so precise, it even dishes out milliseconds.

Looking at your video, I'm wondering if cutting the same corner more than once leads to a much harsher penalty. I don't do many sport races so it's only a wild guess.

 

[TheGeologist]

Looking at your video, I'm wondering if cutting the same corner more than once leads to a much harsher penalty. I don't do many sport races so it's only a wild guess.

As seen in the longer video, the only other penalty I received was in a different corner, so I did not cut the same corner more than once.

So I have a question for everyone. I put two tires off when I turn in. This yields a 9 sec penalty. Then I subsequently run off line putting two tires off again, but there is no further penalty. If any thing, I would think I gained more time running off than turning in. What is the difference between the two?

 

[kjeldsen]

H

You rarely see drivers consistently place 2 wheels on the kerb at Le Mans. If the lap record holder doesn't do it why do you need to?

From the looks of it, he is deep into 10 seconds penalty before he drives under dunlop?

 

[KK78]

H


From the looks of it, he is deep into 10 seconds penalty before he drives under dunlop?

He'd have about 20 seconds of penalties in game before he hits the straight, he uses every kerb...

 

[TheGeologist]

From the looks of it, he is deep into 10 seconds penalty before he drives under dunlop?

From the looks of it, it looks exactly like I did. He also used the kerbs where I did when I got the smaller penalty seen in the latter video...

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The penalty limit appears to be the crest line of the rumble strip. Out of context I don't mind it but it is horribly out of step with the rest of the tracks in the game, so it's frustrating having to learn the limits the hard way.

 

[baldgye]

I think the penalty is fine. Running wide on the exit of that corner doesn't negate the corner cut.

 

[daan]

Are we sure the 10 second penalty was for cutting tertre rouge? It came up too quickly for that surely?

The first penalty was attained at 16 seconds into the lap, but the penalty sign didn't appear until 22 seconds. A penalty usually takes a few seconds to appear so if we assume from that that it takes about 6 seconds.

6 seconds back from the 2nd penalty is here. Does hitting that cone somehow generate a penalty?

Does hitting that cone generate a penalty if it was still in its original place?

 

[CRN_G-TR]

Tracklimits are perfect on this track thats how its should be keep it on the Grey stuff and you will be fine

 

[KK78]

I got a 10 second penalty in a similar position yesterday, it came almost instantly (which again is weird because some seem to take a while) and it couldn't have been from a previous corner as it was a relatively long straight before it