Are we playing the best forza ever

[Speedster911]

Sorry, I just had to share this. I know this is most likely going to attract a lot of boos, and really make my approval ratings sink!

As seen on forzamotorsport.net, copied and pasted:



"I fell in love with Forza 4. I thought it was one of the best, complete games I had ever bought. It was an unexpected GEM, and an absolute masterpiece of a game in all aspects. Unfortunately where can you go from the top? Well there is only one way, down. And that is exactly how I feel about Horizon. I will not sign up for the forums just to come and bash this game. No. I loved Forza 4 so much that I wish to come across as some positive that a dev could see this and maybe make a difference in the next game.

Maybe I was expecting Horizon to be Forza 4 2.0 (I would pay $100 for this game) I'm not certain what the communities take is on this, but this is just my opinion ( and I think I'm entitled to it after gaming for 15 years) Everything feels incomplete. Maybe I am just a true race fan, but taking a buggati and sliding it around in dirt is just not my thing. The free roam thing had so many possibilities and I was hopeful - but the second I heard it, I thought oh no here we go Need for Speed. It feels like they made Forza into a kids game when it was a driving gem. I loved the top gear integration, I love the professionalism paid in respect to the cars. I loved the sloppy menus. I loved "the ring" I loved all the tracks and the detail that they put into them. I feel horizon has fallen flat on it's face. It misses the whole aspect of being about the cars and the most prestigious race tracks on earth. Horizon graphics took a huge hit, the cars look like matchbox toys. They are not visually stunning. I used to sit in front of my TV and I felt so immersed in F4 that I would OOO and Ahhh at the vehicles as if that was as close to a hypercar as I will ever be. I don't want to dodge and weave my RUF in and out of regular traffic during a race like I have to in Horizon. In F4 when I drove a car, I could feel the track as if I were there. I got to learn every bump on the Nurburgring. The elevation changes, and every turn with picture perfect. After playing F4, I made an absolute promise to myself I would drive a DBR9 on the ring in real life. The physics behind every turn, every RPM were so in perfect harmony it was just amazing. Now I'm racing a mini cooper at 120 mph through a park? I Understand you have to do something different - but.... um? lol?

When I bought a car in F4, I almost felt the money coming out of my pocket and I was proud to put it in my garage and show it off, now I'm like ehhh look at this BMW I'm going to have to take off road. Why didn't you guys put car washes in Horizon too. It just seems painfully fruity and off tangent. It is no longer a driving experience.

In closing, I would like to say I had 5 friends that I convinced to buy F4, and we had the most fun playing this game (and we're and FPS group) that I never wanted to trade this game in. When gamestop said they would give me $20 for it, I felt that wasn't enough and I would rather let my F4 disc sit and collect dust than give it up. Yesterday I bought Horizon, and I will relish bringing it back to gamestop to trade it in for $10. It is one of the bottom 10 games I've played, and I have told all of my friends to not purchase it either. I'm not sounding petty, but I hope this review keeps someone from buying Horizon as well.

Oh Before I leave there is one thing Horizon did better (sort of) The music. I don't know how they got that new of songs on the game but I like it. And I used to LOVE the F4 techno beats that would get laid down at 200mph.

Here is to Hoping and praying that Forza 5 is just Forza 4 with a new cover."



I think this guy speaks for most of us who felt Horizon was a major let down. I sure can relate to this.

Not a Horizon bashing post, please don't take it out of context. Just thought I should share this with T10 fans.

 

[ImaRobot]

Maybe I was expecting Horizon to be Forza 4 2.0 (I would pay $100 for this game) I'm not certain what the communities take is on this, but this is just my opinion ( and I think I'm entitled to it after gaming for 15 years)

Was reading and had to post on this as soon as I saw it. So youve been gaming for 15 years, so that makes it ok to think that this was supposed to be exactly like FM, even though it was was clearly stated numerous times that it was never intended to be that whatsoever?

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Yeah. I'm starting to get tired of people approaching Horizon and expecting it to be like Motorsport. I shook my head when I read that Horizon turned Forza into a kids game, like this is the direction Forza is going from now on. What part of "spinoff series" do people not get? You're going to get your precious Forza Motorsport 5 in 2013 people, right on time with the 2-year schedule.

 

[Fastback06]

Yeah. I'm starting to get tired of people approaching Horizon and expecting it to be like Motorsport. I shook my head when I read that Horizon turned Forza into a kids game, like this is the direction Forza is going from now on. What part of "spinoff series" do people not get? You're going to get your precious Forza Motorsport 5 in 2013 people, right on time with the 2-year schedule.

yep I don't understand either why this continues to be a subject, when now that the game is out. T-10/PG clearly stated this was a new open world action (not sim) racing spin off of FM4 before game came out. I bought this game because it was a part of FM but not a serious sim but open world have fun. Those who continue to post in the FH threads and don't like the game and continue to compare FM4 to FH WHY? lol. I'm 38 and I'm a old school gamer and love to play all kinds of games and this is not a game made for kids only now maybe NFS is

 

[Luminis]

**I would again stand by the notion that FM4 is *not* a simcade, simply because the real-life racing elements and factors you get to see in PC sims are missing. How many PC sims can you name that has race cars AND production cars from practically all eras?

Every sim that is modable?

**Well, I would argue FM4 does make realism and accuracy one of it's top priorities, if not it's ONLY top priority. However, if you're going to go on comparing it to PC sims, then I'm afraid it will not fit the bill for you, and I can understand why you're at ease calling it a simcade. I do defend FM4 rather fiercely at times, and if that earns me the title of an elitist, so be it

I didn't mean to offend you with my choice of words, I just couldn't think of a better term to describe my observations

**I check the forums when I please, and comment whenever I please! If I have indeed offended someone or left an inappropriate comment, do point out.

Nah, it's not that I find it inappropriate or offending. I'm just wondering, because, well, I'm not the kind of guy to do so.

Yes agreed. In that case, I suppose I am a bit of a track whore then.. can't get enough of tuning and pushing cars to the edge!

I love doing so myself, and I love doing so on FM4, actually. I just think that there are games that are better at doing that than FM4 is - replicating what it's like to push a car to its limits on a track, that's all, basically.

But, as they say, different strokes for different folks. Dunno whether I phrased that right, I'm crap with idioms

It feels like they made Forza into a kids game when it was a driving gem. [...] I loved "the ring"

He's complaining about Horizon being a kids game and then points out he's in love with the most dumbed-down version of the Green Hell that has been put into a racing game on the sim side of Need for Speed? See, this is why I'm so goddamn fed up with these comments. Double standards, double standards everywhere.

This is like reading someone's comment who's fine with GT5's standard cars and bashed FM4 for having some cars that have been carried over from FM2.

Here is to Hoping and praying that Forza 5 is just Forza 4 with a new cover."

This is the worst possibility, but, sadly, not an unlikely one. FM4 still needs a lot of work. If FM5 still doesn't offer a proper rendition of the Nordschleife, at least, I'll be massively pissed.

 

[Wolfe]

@forzamotorsport.net post:
Whoa whoa whoa. So we've got a guy who expected Horizon to be Forza 5 ("Forza 4 2.0"); doesn't want to drive on dirt; associates open road driving with "kids games"; wonders where the race tracks went; doesn't want to deal with traffic in a race; resents that the goofy off-road shenanigans have replaced his hallowed trackday experience; and thinks the game has gone "off tangent" (uh, spinoff??).

I'm sorry, but this guy practically deserved every second of disappointment he got from the game. Was he living under a rock all summer, or does he have some compulsive disorder where he goes out and buys games that are resolutely counter-aligned to every one of his preferences and widely publicized as such for several months? Holy cow. What a mountain of sour grapes.

Speedster911, I don't know what you see in this buffoon, but if his post is something that resonates with you, I think the message is clear: Horizon just wasn't made for you. You were never going to like it.

I would again stand by the notion that FM4 is *not* a simcade, simply because the real-life racing elements and factors you get to see in PC sims are missing...

...Including a handful of options, handicaps, aids.. whatever you want to call it, to make it more accessible to the casual gamer, does not render it sim + arcade by any means...Physics are the pinnacle of every sim, and FM4 nails it almost completely.

Let's emphasize that "almost." I think part of the divide here is your conviction that FM4's physics engine is "ridiculously accurate." I have to say, that's a bit too much credit to give. I'll try to briefly summarize my own findings:

Suspension modelling is "flat" and not very communicative; rebound is muted, allowing you to jump your car like a movie star without consequence. Tires are a bit too eager to let go under power (I'm not alone on this), and are awfully friendly once the limit has been passed; if you're fast enough with the steering, you can drift anything with aplomb. Drifting is also made easy by a "glitch" that apparently reduces angular momentum in quick directional changes; you won't get the sort of irrecoverable tank-slappers you can find in true simulators. Corner-entry oversteer is nerfed, probably to make things easier; mid- and rear-engined cars are docile little lambs, no matter their real-world reputation.

None of these things relate to "racing elements" or "driving aids." The physics engine is simply a bit diluted, and in several ways that make things easier. Depending on your standards, that qualifies as "simcade." Like Luminis just said, there are games that are better at replicating what it's like to push a car to its limits on a track. I've played a few.

Even with all its fancy telemetry and 360hz physics, FM4 in motion will never look this good:



No game is perfect, and Forza is fun so we don't really care. Some of us just like to keep tabs on what's wrong.

 

[justchyllan]

Might I just interject and say dear god! This thread has some of the lengthiest posts I've ever seen! I planned on reading this buuut I haven't been involved in this enough...

Can we all agree that its the best free roam racing game out there? And that if you're expexcting full on sim racing like in motorsport you'll be disappointed. All this debating and that seems to be the conclusion everytime

Just my quick 2 from looking at all this

 

[Speedster911]

@Wolfe, Luminus:

Yeah, I get it. You're pro-Horizon, I'm not.

I'm rather weary of having to read the same "there are other full blown sims that do all of this better" story over and over.

You're clearly not reading my posts thoroughly; FM4 is the most accurate sim to date ON A CONSOLE. Not PC, gaming CONSOLE. And since I don't game on a PC anymore, console sims are what interest me the most.

Aside from the joke called Horizon, FM has a bright future ahead of itself. I just hope they don't decide to make it more *playable* or *accessible* for casual gamers. And if they really do want to stay ahead of the pack, they've got their work cut out for them, and will really need to pull some tricks out of their hats; FM4 is far from perfect.

Still, console-wise (read again), best sim to date. Give them more hardware HP, and we'll all get to witness what kind of fireworks T10 are capable of, come next-gen.

I doubt if FM5 will disappoint in any way. But don't expect leaps and bounds. Changes, especially good ones, are usually effective when administered in small doses...

 

[Luminis]

You're clearly not reading my posts thoroughly; FM4 is the most accurate sim to date ON A CONSOLE. Not PC, gaming CONSOLE. And since I don't game on a PC anymore, console sims are what interest me the most.

Because being limited to consoles is your situation, not everyone else's. That simple. FM4 competes with GT5, even though I sold my PS3 many moons ago. Doesn't change the fact that both games are comparable, are being compared - and rightfully so. And, using reality as a yard stick, FM4 just isn't as good as you're making it sound. That simple.

Going on about how its the best on a console only is like Ferrari inventing a new class of cars (production derived sports cars) because they couldn't beat the lap record for production cars on the Nordschleife.

Might I just interject and say dear god! This thread has some of the lengthiest posts I've ever seen! I planned on reading this buuut I haven't been involved in this enough...

Can we all agree that its the best free roam racing game out there? And that if you're expexcting full on sim racing like in motorsport you'll be disappointed. All this debating and that seems to be the conclusion everytime

Just my quick 2 from looking at all this

Agreed to the latter part. But, believe me, there've been even lenghtier posts in the FM vs. GT thread, when it was still active

 

[Wolfe]

That's just it: I don't quite agree that FM4 is as good as it gets on a console. Richard Burns Rally is very highly regarded, and it was available on PS2 and Xbox. Yeah, that's just rally racing. However, I also maintain that Enthusia Professional Racing nailed a few fundamental aspects of kinetics better than even FM4, and that's again on PS2 hardware.

If you wag the tail of a RWD car in Enthusia, you can feel the angular momentum, and it will get away from you if you keep probing for trouble. If you fly into a corner hot in a Ruf CTR, downshifting and whipping up to redline in 2nd gear, the weight shift and powertrain shock will have you scrambling for countersteer as the rear end swings wide and hard. You can hardly skid the tires in Forza without relying on power-over or the handbrake (but boy does it love to slide with those). If you roughhouse a Shelby Cobra in EPR, you'll find yourself in a ditch faster than you can say "Bill Cosby." But what else should happen when you shoehorn a potent lump of american iron into a featherweight British chassis? In Forza 4 you automatically become the next Keiichi Tsuchiya.

It's not like EPR shot for "realism" by simply cranking the difficulty knob, either. It actually makes drifting easier than reality, like FM4 does, and understeer, brake lock, and full-throttle RWD launches are all less threatening than in the real world. Of course, that didn't stop the game from bucking numerous reviewers and countless gamers into the wall, like a yuppie taking his Ferrari out on a first-time track day. It was a commercial flop, and is now a cult classic in the fringes of the racing sim community.

I'm sure FM5 will continue to improve the formula, but in my opinion, FM4 just isn't that hardcore, even for a console game. That's probably a good thing, considering the fate of Enthusia. Believe me, I think Forza is great for a console game, but that won't stop me from asking for more. I hope both FM5 and FH2 are even more realistic than the current roster, while maintaining the accessibility that keeps them commercially viable.

EDIT: Forza definitely offers the best overall package of any console game, period. Enthusia included. But we're talking physics.

 

[rtsbasic]

Wow, this thread was worth reading just for the LFS video, time to dust it off tonight

Horizon is a lot of fun, it's no simulator but it has a strong variety of things to do and a reasonable open-road to do it in. Still feels like coming home when FM4 loads up though. I play it for the same reason I played tdu1/2 and any other arcade driving game - its fun, and with horizon at least they started with a good base for the physics unlike many of its peers.

FM4 is still king.

 

[Speedster911]

Because being limited to consoles is your situation, not everyone else's. That simple. FM4 competes with GT5, even though I sold my PS3 many moons ago. Doesn't change the fact that both games are comparable, are being compared - and rightfully so. And, using reality as a yard stick, FM4 just isn't as good as you're making it sound. That simple.

Going on about how its the best on a console only is like Ferrari inventing a new class of cars (production derived sports cars) because they couldn't beat the lap record for production cars on the Nordschleife.



Agreed to the latter part. But, believe me, there've been even lenghtier posts in the FM vs. GT thread, when it was still active

** I think you're close mindedness is what is probably the reason why you don't enjoy FM4 as much as other T10 fans, or have failed to get the kind of shelf life out of it as it still is a superior sim on consoles. And yet, you insist on bringing in PC sims in the discussion, ironically when the hardware is superior and much more experienced developers working on them. Yet, there is not one good PC sim that has race cars AND road/street cars. Care to shed light on that? This is a Forza discussion thread, I don't understand why you keep bring PC sims into the debate. I suppose you must be really desperate to win followers, while getting the point across and having that as the final authority.

That's just it: I don't quite agree that FM4 is as good as it gets on a console. Richard Burns Rally is very highly regarded, and it was available on PS2 and Xbox. Yeah, that's just rally racing. However, I also maintain that Enthusia Professional Racing nailed a few fundamental aspects of kinetics better than even FM4, and that's again on PS2 hardware.

If you wag the tail of a RWD car in Enthusia, you can feel the angular momentum, and it will get away from you if you keep probing for trouble. If you fly into a corner hot in a Ruf CTR, downshifting and whipping up to redline in 2nd gear, the weight shift and powertrain shock will have you scrambling for countersteer as the rear end swings wide and hard. You can hardly skid the tires in Forza without relying on power-over or the handbrake (but boy does it love to slide with those). If you roughhouse a Shelby Cobra in EPR, you'll find yourself in a ditch faster than you can say "Bill Cosby." But what else should happen when you shoehorn a potent lump of american iron into a featherweight British chassis? In Forza 4 you automatically become the next Keiichi Tsuchiya.

It's not like EPR shot for "realism" by simply cranking the difficulty knob, either. It actually makes drifting easier than reality, like FM4 does, and understeer, brake lock, and full-throttle RWD launches are all less threatening than in the real world. Of course, that didn't stop the game from bucking numerous reviewers and countless gamers into the wall, like a yuppie taking his Ferrari out on a first-time track day. It was a commercial flop, and is now a cult classic in the fringes of the racing sim community.

I'm sure FM5 will continue to improve the formula, but in my opinion, FM4 just isn't that hardcore, even for a console game. That's probably a good thing, considering the fate of Enthusia. Believe me, I think Forza is great for a console game, but that won't stop me from asking for more. I hope both FM5 and FH2 are even more realistic than the current roster, while maintaining the accessibility that keeps them commercially viable.

EDIT: Forza definitely offers the best overall package of any console game, period. Enthusia included. But we're talking physics.

**Physics and overall package, not just physics, mind you. I never set out to make this discussion focus on physics only, even though it did start to go in that direction. At the moment, FM4 keeps me more than full. The leaps and bounds they've achieved since the original FM is remarkable to say the least. FM5 on next-gen ought to be epic in every way. Unless industry politics get the best of it. So far, everything looks good. And I'll go on record to say again: Horizon and Motorsport ought to be two seperate entities. And one more for the record: people, please don't drag PC sims into the discussion. The hardware is superior and PC sims allow more input commands to say the least. I don't believe it's a legit comparison at all. Enthusia had a good run while it lasted.

Here's the thing about T10: they learn from the mistakes of other developers as well. To inculde as much content as they did with FM4, it's a very difficult task to focus on physics alone. These guys have simply touched the surface. FM5 is where the real revolution begins.

Also, developers need to focus on other key areas such as acceptability, accessibility and sales. FM4 was a perfect execution in that regard.

With PC sims, devs can afford to be more hardcore, and still manage to find success even though the niche of gamers is so limited.

With consoles, you just can't take that risk. And I don't care to elaborate any further!

 

[Speedster911]

Wow, this thread was worth reading just for the LFS video, time to dust it off tonight

Horizon is a lot of fun, it's no simulator but it has a strong variety of things to do and a reasonable open-road to do it in. Still feels like coming home when FM4 loads up though. I play it for the same reason I played tdu1/2 and any other arcade driving game - its fun, and with horizon at least they started with a good base for the physics unlike many of its peers.

FM4 is still king.

Hmm, good for you mate!

Problem with me is any driving game that even has a hint of arcade just makes me gag and choke!

Wasn't like this though until the first Gran Turismo arrived. FM4 is indeed king, and I do feel sorry for the fellas who have gripes against the physics or anything else for that matter... while completely ignoring the slew of content it offers. You won't see anybody complimenting the beautiful engine sounds, the variety of cars, the sense of speed.. or the sense of achievement or reward when you set a superb lap time on a track, quite possibly because you were able to get more out of your car by tuning it just right.

No sirree, you'll just hear gamers complain about how the physics in FM4 are not spot on, all the while defending Horizon, saying how much fun and how realistic it is for an open road racing game.

Jeeez...gamers these days...never happy! Biased and ungrateful!

You will not see a single review on Horizon on any of the big budget gaming sights criticizing the short gaming span, the lack of depth, the WTF ending.. the weak engine sounds... lack of smoke and dust in the SE department. You will however, see several not so well known web sites giving it a 6.5 or lower, out of 10. Because they are not biased and not paid off by anyone to give a good review score. Fact: scores on gamespot and IGN are skewed just as an example, that's no secret.

Horizon can be fun at times, but that fun is just so limited. It largely feels like a rushed and unfinished game. Would have loved to see what might have been the result if devs had more time to work on it, and perhaps release it on 2 discs.

Still, not bad for a first attempt. But in NO way compliments the success of FM. Not to mention the depth and shelf life.

Still waiting on a realistic open road game with depth. Let's see what Horizon 2 brings to the table. I have no hope for the Test Drive or Shift games though.

 

[saskman1950]

Reading the last two comments made my head fuzzy. It was a lot like my calculus classes. haha.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

And I'll go on record to say again: Horizon and Motorsport ought to be two seperate entities.

How are they not already two separate entities?

It's been said long in advance that Horizon will be a totally different game. Horizon was made by a different developer. We are still going to get FM5 by T10 next year and on time with a new FM every two years, the same it's been since the series began. Again, it is a spinoff title. It's already been made clear in the replies to that post you grabbed from FM.net that Horizon and Motorsport are already two different things. What more do you want? You're making it seem like you don't even want "Forza" to even be mentioned in conjunction with Horizon.

Hmm, good for you mate!

Problem with me is any driving game that even has a hint of arcade just makes me gag and choke!

Wasn't like this though until the first Gran Turismo arrived. FM4 is indeed king, and I do feel sorry for the fellas who have gripes against the physics or anything else for that matter... while completely ignoring the slew of content it offers. You won't see anybody complimenting the beautiful engine sounds, the variety of cars, the sense of speed.. or the sense of achievement or reward when you set a superb lap time on a track, quite possibly because you were able to get more out of your car by tuning it just right.

No sirree, you'll just hear gamers complain about how the physics in FM4 are not spot on, all the while defending Horizon, saying how much fun and how realistic it is for an open road racing game.

Jeeez...gamers these days...never happy! Biased and ungrateful!

You will not see a single review on Horizon on any of the big budget gaming sights criticizing the short gaming span, the lack of depth, the WTF ending.. the weak engine sounds... lack of smoke and dust in the SE department. You will however, see several not so well known web sites giving it a 6.5 or lower, out of 10. Because they are not biased and not paid off by anyone to give a good review score. Fact: scores on gamespot and IGN are skewed just as an example, that's no secret.

Horizon can be fun at times, but that fun is just so limited. It largely feels like a rushed and unfinished game. Would have loved to see what might have been the result if devs had more time to work on it, and perhaps release it on 2 discs.

Still, not bad for a first attempt. But in NO way compliments the success of FM. Not to mention the depth and shelf life.

Still waiting on a realistic open road game with depth. Let's see what Horizon 2 brings to the table. I have no hope for the Test Drive or Shift games though.

The only thing I'm going to say to this is I hope you're not throwing everyone who happens to enjoy Horizon more than FM4 under this category of "biased" and "ungrateful".

And I disagree about the game lacking depth and having a short life-span. I think that all comes down to what you want out of a racing game. For example, you mention the sense of achievement and reward you get in FM4 when setting a lap record on a track because you tuned the car a certain way. Quite frankly, I don't care about that. Tuning and time trials don't interest me. Good for you that it adds something to your FM4 exprience, but as for me, I'd rather spend my time in FM4 doing something else.

Using GT5 as another example, people are still playing it after two years. Personally, I don't think that game is even worth playing after a few months because I think it's so shallow. But apparently, GT5 has something about it that makes people still want to play after all this time. And I think the same can be said about Horizon. You, personally, may think it lacks depth and has a short-life span but other people may see something in it that makes them want to keep playing.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Hmm, good for you mate!

Problem with me is any driving game that even has a hint of arcade just makes me gag and choke!

...
...
Jeeez...gamers these days...never happy! Biased and ungrateful!
...
...

22 posts in this topic... we get your point. You don't like it, that's fine, everyone has their own taste for games (bias).
"Bias" isn't bad, it's a normal reaction but it becomes an issue when we don't think we have bias (we all do) and try to enforce our views as fact. This is a general comment, not directed necessarily at you Speedster911.

"In my opinion", FH is a good value, especially for a first attempt; feels very polished. It's not without it's flaws but what game doesn't.
I have said this before, if your sole goal is to "beat" the game, it could feel short. I have yet, and won't, fast travel just to get to a destination; the journey is half the fun. FH does present a number of challenges that can create a focus on "beating" the game; I myself just don't attempt to follow the games lead and spend more time free roaming - the games strength.

 

[Wolfe]

FM4 is indeed king, and I do feel sorry for the fellas who have gripes against the physics or anything else for that matter... while completely ignoring the slew of content it offers.

Pfft. I'm not sure if you know what it's like to skip a massive, content-packed game for years because you simply cannot enjoy it, but I'm used to dealing with that. Gran Turismo 4/5 and Forza Motorsport 1-3 are loaded with tons of cars and tracks and features, but I couldn't stand playing any of them. The driving experience was terrible.

Forza 4 flipped the table on physics, and I really appreciate that. It also has a lot of cool stuff, I know. There's a very simple reason I shelved it when Horizon was announced: the track list bores me to tears. Flat, wide, straight, dull. To add insult to injury, as Luminis pointed out, the Nordschleife sucks hard in that game. I've lapped that track thousands of times in various games, and drove the real thing myself. I never load it up in FM4 because it's borderline unrecognizable and looks half-finished.

It's the same story with a different theme. Forza 4 has all kinds of goodies and a solid foundation, but it's just so boring for me. I'll wait patiently for FM5. In the meantime, Horizon pretty much has it all -- cars I like, on roads I like, with features I like, in a physics engine that I think feels fantastic, almost identical to FM4. It's a straightforward formula.

...gamers complain about how the physics in FM4 are not spot on, all the while defending Horizon, saying how much fun and how realistic it is for an open road racing game.

Jeeez...gamers these days...never happy! Biased and ungrateful!

Explaining that FM4's physics are not spot-on, and enjoying another game = Biased and ungrateful? You really need to get a sense of perspective, dude.

It's not like we're saying Horizon is a "ridiculously accurate" game with the best physics ever on a console. Believe me, I know how annoying those comments are when you know better. So what is there for you to complain about?

 

[Luminis]

** I think you're close mindedness is what is probably the reason why you don't enjoy FM4 as much as other T10 fans, or have failed to get the kind of shelf life out of it as it still is a superior sim on consoles. And yet, you insist on bringing in PC sims in the discussion, ironically when the hardware is superior and much more experienced developers working on them. Yet, there is not one good PC sim that has race cars AND road/street cars. Care to shed light on that? This is a Forza discussion thread, I don't understand why you keep bring PC sims into the debate. I suppose you must be really desperate to win followers, while getting the point across and having that as the final authority.

You sure get touchy and defensive.

First off, I've gotten plenty of shelv life out of FM4. More than 500 hours, in fact, which is considerably me than I've gotten out of any other game (aside from World of WarCraft), so you can keep your assumptions to yourself. And you can bet that it would've been twice, if not tripple that amount if the game had a version of the Nordschleife that could rival GT5's: Accurate, with weather and a dynamic day and night cycle.

Second, the reason why I'm bringing PC sims up constantly is because you've been so hung up on "realism and accuracy" as your most important priorities. If they were that important, you'd still be on a PC. You're not, which is fine. Accuracy and realism aren't the only things that influence one's decision - as you said, you left PC gaming due to the hardware restrictions and budget, which is obviously a consideration when picking your poision. You're not willing to shell out big for the most realistic representation of racing? All well and good, but it's hypocracy to tell everyone that FM4 is the best game ever because of its realism and whatnot, when it's second to other games - which YOU aren't considering due to the budget required.

Third, sims with race cars and road cars.



In conclusion, I am very much enjoying FM4 and am, indeed, playing that rather than PC sims, but that's because I can deal with the inferior realism as a trade off for the reduced required budget, for the ease of use and so on. Folks who act like FM4 is a godsent gift without any fault whatsoever just annoy the hell out of me. For the love of god, even GT5 (which I don't consider to be better than FM4, nor to be a very enjoyable game) does quite some things better than FM4, and so do many other games - I just don't get why you seemingly won't accept any other opinion aside from FM4 being the be-all, end-all of simulators. People have called me out as a Forza fanboy before, but damn, that's a whole new level.

Really, when I read something about being willing to sheel out 100 bucks for FM4 with a new cover, I should've known to just drop the discussion, because that is utter fanboyism right there - and after dealing with that sort of crap in regards to other games for way too long, I should've known that there's no merrit in debating the topic any further. I would actually have dropped it earlier, but it just gets my nerves on my that you're cutting FM4 slack for not stacking up to PC sims due to the hardware, but you're seemingly keen on calling people out for cutting FH slack because of its genre.

You go on about how everyone should be in awe with FM4 because it has good physics for a console game, but when folks are saying that FH has good physics for an open world game, that's rubbish?

You mention how games that feel slightly arcady are crap, but that other players who're still seeing faults with FM4 are ungrateful and never satisfied?

Talk about pot calling the kettle black!

Anyways, if you wish to continue your crusade as to why we should all have no god besides FM4, you'll have to pick ut up with the other guys in here. I'm not too keen on provoking a mod to take action, and I'm quite sure that that is a distinct possibility if this keeps up.

Oh. One last thing: You're calling me close minded when you're shunning every game that, and I quote "has a hint of arcade just makes me gag and choke!"? oh, the irony! Best of all, that statement is quite true for FM4, as well.

Anyways, enjoy your stay. Others might be more patient in dealing with your double standards and FM-oriented favouritism than I am.

 

[Speedster911]

Bravooo.... BRAVOOO!! Well said I say ol' chap...

*stands up and claps rapidly*

 

[Wolfe]

Did you get lost, Speedster911? I think you ended up in another forum by mistake. I'm not sure what Horizon has to do with "Simulation vs Normal Steering" in FM4:

Sadly, some folks on this forum are actually bashing FM4's physics for not being spot on enough, right after I bashed Horizon for being a lame arcade fest!

Ah... the beauty of personal opinions!

If FM4's physics are spot-on, that necessitates that there's no room for improvement. If there's room for improvement, they're not spot-on.

Pick one.

 

[saskman1950]

The bottom line:: Do you LIKE the game or NOT?
I play FM4 over GT5 because I like it.

I've yet to try Horizon (even though I own it), but if I like it who really cares but me?

 

[Speedster911]

Exactly, it all comes down to personal tastes no matter how fancy someone gets with words, in order to prove their point or have the final authority.

That said, enjoying games is quite frankly a matter of personal opinion/preferences, and if the game offers what you're looking for and appeals to your liking, you're all set and getting your money's worth.

It's like the new Hitman game getting good reviews overall, but getting mixed impressions and feedback from gamers on forums. I personally couldn't give a hoot about what somebody has to say about any given game, based on their personal tastes, as the game I play is enjoyable because it appeals to my liking. HA to me has been very enjoyable so far. No game's perfect. As long as people are making games, they will always be imperfect. It is an imperfect process. It is simply a depiction of somebody's imagination. And in some games, it tends to work really well, in others it may not. *rant over*

Depending on your personal tastes in racing games, you may enjoy Horizon.

Cheery-O!

 

[ImaRobot]

Thats totally understandable and all, but why do you go and say that people are biased and ungrateful because they have something to say about a certain game? You seem to be in two minds, telling people its all down to opinion and its good to have one, and then telling people that they are biased and ungrateful because of an opinion. Make up your mind, or remember what you post.

 

[Wolfe]

Oops, now you're getting fancy with words, in order to prove a point or have the final authority!

 

[DDastardly00]

I love threads like these.

Personally, I like all of the titles mentioned for the various things they bring to the table. The only one of them I didn't play long, was GT5. The lack of cockpit view for 800 of the cars killed the game for me. Also, we are not playing the best Forza game ever, I mean come on, how could it be when it's an unfinished beta of a spinoff on a popular racing series? That being said, I am enjoying Horizon for what it does do right, solid core driving physics/gameplay in an open world enviroment. Now if they could just fix the glaring problems like no photomode in MP, and expand the rather small map then it might just someday be the Best..........no wait, it still wouldn't be even then.

 

[justchyllan]

I don't mean to sound cliché, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Are we playing the best free roam ever? Maybe. But "Motorsport" isn't in the title so it should not be compared so closely to the other series.

 

[Speedster911]

Thats totally understandable and all, but why do you go and say that people are biased and ungrateful because they have something to say about a certain game? You seem to be in two minds, telling people its all down to opinion and its good to have one, and then telling people that they are biased and ungrateful because of an opinion. Make up your mind, or remember what you post.

Oops, now you're getting fancy with words, in order to prove a point or have the final authority!

Get over yourselves guys. It's just a forum where opinions are voiced. My comments or anybody else's do not affect the playability (or success) of either game. Not one bit.

 

[Speedster911]

I love threads like these.

Personally, I like all of the titles mentioned for the various things they bring to the table. The only one of them I didn't play long, was GT5. The lack of cockpit view for 800 of the cars killed the game for me. Also, we are not playing the best Forza game ever, I mean come on, how could it be when it's an unfinished beta of a spinoff on a popular racing series? That being said, I am enjoying Horizon for what it does do right, solid core driving physics/gameplay in an open world enviroment. Now if they could just fix the glaring problems like no photomode in MP, and expand the rather small map then it might just someday be the Best..........no wait, it still wouldn't be even then.

I got my sights set on FM5. But if they port over the issues of the previous versions, I just might give up on it. Read a very interesting thread on another forum, about how devs tend to sit on their laurels once a certain amount of success has been achieved. This can cause to certain death of a series down the line. And GT is a prime example. Not completely, but it's getting there. The creator calling the engine sounds "realistic" is a classic example.

FM5 (including the Horizon franchise) will need to bring some serious changes and innovations to the table, or it may have to take a backseat some day. Gosh I hope I'm wrong.

 

[DDastardly00]

I got my sights set on FM5. But if they port over the issues of the previous versions, I just might give up on it. Read a very interesting thread on another forum, about how devs tend to sit on their laurels once a certain amount of success has been achieved. This can cause to certain death of a series down the line. And GT is a prime example. Not completely, but it's getting there. The creator calling the engine sounds "realistic" is a classic example.

FM5 (including the Horizon franchise) will need to bring some serious changes and innovations to the table, or it may have to take a backseat some day. Gosh I hope I'm wrong.

I'm with you there, GT was plagued with the same problems from GT2 on, and they never fixed them, in fact, it just got worse all the way up to GT5. But the crazy part is, people (myself included) still keep buying them, in fact GT5 sold something like 5 million copies, way more than Forza 3 and 4 combined. As consumers, we tend to like to reward failures, and the kind of message that sends is "hey we're ok with the Dev's laziness, just keep taking our money, we like it, please kick us in the butt too while you're at it, we like that too". Until people (again, myself included) start voting with their wallets, nothing will ever change.

 

[ImaRobot]

Get over yourselves guys. It's just a forum where opinions are voiced. My comments or anybody else's do not affect the playability (or success) of either game. Not one bit.

What do I need to get over? I havnt posted anything other then the fact that you are being hypocritical. You put down peoples opinions, and then go and act like "hey guys its all down to opinions."

And you just did it again with the beginning of this sentence you wrote. My opinion is being voiced, yet you try to shut it down lol. It seems that the only opinion that you think is fine is your own, so dont act like you care about "opinions" in general.