Aston Martin & Red Bull Racing to build Valkyrie hypercar, due in 2019

[GTV0819]

And only 1000kg.....

Think about that for a minute

The power-to-weight ratio is truly outstanding.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I'm pretty sure bigger brains than I have calculated this, but you do wonder if the V12 alone and the weight saved from cutting out the hybrid system will make the car even faster? I'd love to see one of the buyers comission a "pure" spec with just the ICE.

 

[Aphelion]

I'm pretty sure bigger brains than I have calculated this, but you do wonder if the V12 alone and the weight saved from cutting out the hybrid system will make the car even faster? I'd love to see one of the buyers comission a "pure" spec with just the ICE.

Im pretty sure you are going to have to give the F1 designer and league of world class enginners with years and years of experience and a half a decade of planning and designing the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.

 

[I_Leak_Oil]

I'm pretty sure bigger brains than I have calculated this, but you do wonder if the V12 alone and the weight saved from cutting out the hybrid system will make the car even faster? I'd love to see one of the buyers comission a "pure" spec with just the ICE.

I think the Pro ‘track version’ is ICE only

 

[AudiMan2011]

I think the Pro ‘track version’ is ICE only

The Pro version retains the hybrid ERS system according to the press release last year.
http://www2.astonmartin.com/en/live...yrie-amr-pro-makes-world-debut-at-geneva-show

Calibration changes to the 6.5-litre naturally-aspirated V12 engine’s emission control systems and re-programming of the Energy Recovery System control software will result in a combined power output of more than 1100bhp - more than the Valkyrie road car and a figure than comfortably exceeds the magic 1:1 power-to-weight ratio. That’s to say more than 1bhp to propel every kilogram of mass.

 

[Aphelion]

This thing is truly a contender for best car ever made for me. Just insane. I love everything this car stands for.

 

[Roger the Horse]

This thing is truly a contender for best car ever made for me. Just insane. I love everything this car stands for.

The title of the best car ever made is hard to pin down but it's probably either some sort of ambulance or some sort of fire engine.

 

[kikie]

It sounds like an F1 car.

Pink is the colour I would choose for my Valkyrie.


They were able to deliver emissions.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Verification Prototype 001.

Spoiler

 

[SebiGT89]

this car, I think that changes the rules... Of course, AMG ONE, SSC 003, Senna etc, have their merit too, but this... this is one step ahead.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

this car, I think that changes the rules... Of course, AMG ONE, SSC 003, Senna etc, have their merit too, but this... this is one step ahead.

I think the ONE is on the same league as this, the reason people at least here don't want to talk about it is that it looks too corporate at times and not as crazy and carefree as this car. The ONE is like a road car face of F1, while the Valkyrie is the face of every car fans wildest dreams.

 

[I_Leak_Oil]

I think the ONE is on the same league as this, the reason people at least here don't want to talk about it is that it looks too corporate at times and not as crazy and carefree as this car. The ONE is like a road car face of F1, while the Valkyrie is the face of every car fans wildest dreams.

Yes, you buy the Project One if your too fat to fit in the Valkyrie

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes, you buy the Project One if your too fat to fit in the Valkyrie

If you're too fat for the Valkyrie you're too fat for the AMG One. Though I'm not sure you extrapolated that conclusion from my prior post.

 

[I_Leak_Oil]

If you're too fat for the Valkyrie you're too fat for the AMG One. Though I'm not sure you extrapolated that conclusion from my prior post.

Ha ha, maybe.

Both fantastic cars, the Valkyrie over 1 lap would be faster I am fairly sure.

Over a 6 hour race not so sure, would be quite a race which will probably never happen unfortunately.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Ha ha, maybe.

Both fantastic cars, the Valkyrie over 1 lap would be faster I am fairly sure.

Over a 6 hour race not so sure, would be quite a race which will probably never happen unfortunately.

Based on? Time will tell, the ONE is based on several proven championship race cars and is made for road use. The Valkyrie is made by aerodynamicist who had penned several championship race cars...

On paper the cars are pretty equal, with out much lapping seen or given officially by said groups it becomes a game of picking your favorite...which is pretty useless.

 

[I_Leak_Oil]

Based on? Time will tell, the ONE is based on several proven championship race cars and is made for road use. The Valkyrie is made by aerodynamicist who had penned several championship race cars...

On paper the cars are pretty equal, with out much lapping seen or given officially by said groups it becomes a game of picking your favorite...which is pretty useless.

Based on what I think, please don’t take anything I say too seriously.

The Valkyrie will sound far better, therefore it will be faster.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Based on what I think, please don’t take anything I say too seriously.

The Valkyrie will sound far better, therefore it will be faster.

I'm not taking it seriously just asking to see if you're going to post anything that actually give insight or something else. Some people might actually read what you say and take it for face value rather than "sarcasm".

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I agree the Valkyrie will probably be faster than AMG One. Power similar for both (~1000hp) and both have hybrid assist. Weight goes to Valkyrie. Downforce also goes to the Valkyrie. The only advantage AMG has is 4WD, but that will be negated by the Valkyrie's downforce in every situation except acceleration from walking speeds which you do not encounter often on a decent sized track.

The only car I can see in within a reach of the Valk is the new Koenigsegg Jesko (power advantage, but still loses on weight and aero), and even then it might need a track with lots of straights and not too many high speed corners.

Only time will tell. I hope Merc & Aston are both man enough to let the cars do the talking in a direct fight instead of lawsuits dictating the outcome.

 

[McLaren]

I agree the Valkyrie will probably be faster than AMG One. Power similar for both (~1000hp) and both have hybrid assist. Weight goes to Valkyrie. Downforce also goes to the Valkyrie. The only advantage AMG has is 4WD, but that will be negated by the Valkyrie's downforce in every situation except acceleration from walking speeds which you do not encounter often on a decent sized track.

The only car I can see in within a reach of the Valk is the new Koenigsegg Jesko (power advantage, but still loses on weight and aero), and even then it might need a track with lots of straights and not too many high speed corners.

Only time will tell. I hope Merc & Aston are both man enough to let the cars do the talking in a direct fight instead of lawsuits dictating the outcome.

Aston Martin seems super confident in the Valkyrie, enough for it to spawn 2 more "lower-end" cars and bring Aston Martin into the mid-engine supercar game.

I don't think Mercedes will hold anything back as well, but the faith in them isn't as high with Aston.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Aston Martin seems super confident in the Valkyrie, enough for it to spawn 2 more "lower-end" cars and bring Aston Martin into the mid-engine supercar game.

I don't think Mercedes will hold anything back as well, but the faith in them isn't as high with Aston.

Well Aston has probably the best aerodynamicist in history working for them, and at this level of hypercars, aero grip is everything (mechanical grip is always going to be limited by road tyres). Merc has title winning engine, but in the grand scheme of things, 1000 HP hybrid engines are not that special anymore. The last crop of hypers (LaF, P1) are already knocking on that number, though admittedly with bigger displacement, more cylinders and less efficiency.

Regarding Aston's lower end MR supercars, personally I don't like their new direction. They all look too similar and risk cheapening the brand like McLaren now. The Valkyrie should be special and exist above and beyond all other Astons both in design and performance. I get that they want to compete with 488, 720S, Huracan but at least change up the design a little (DP-100 anyone?) and don't use the Vanquish name.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well Aston has probably the best aerodynamicist in history working for them, and at this level of hypercars, aero grip is everything (mechanical grip is always going to be limited by road tyres). Merc has title winning engine, but in the grand scheme of things, 1000 HP hybrid engines are not that special anymore. The last crop of hypers (LaF, P1) are already knocking on that number, though admittedly with bigger displacement, more cylinders and less efficiency.

Regarding Aston's lower end MR supercars, personally I don't like their new direction. They all look too similar and risk cheapening the brand like McLaren now. The Valkyrie should be special and exist above and beyond all other Astons both in design and performance. I get that they want to compete with 488, 720S, Huracan but at least change up the design a little (DP-100 anyone?) and don't use the Vanquish name.

I wouldn't doubt the aero work of the Mercedes group especially considering it's the same group that has made 5 WDC winning cars, though it is funny this seems to be an argument that is seen in the F1 threads from GP to GP. Random person thinks: "RB probably has the best aero in the field but the Mercedes probably has the better overall package".

As for power Mercedes supposedly has about 100 more at full power than the Aston.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I wouldn't doubt the aero work of the Mercedes group especially considering it's the same group that has made 5 WDC winning cars, though it is funny this seems to be an argument that is seen in the F1 threads from GP to GP. Random person thinks: "RB probably has the best aero in the field but the Mercedes probably has the better overall package".

As for power Mercedes supposedly has about 100 more at full power than the Aston.

I don't doubt Merc's aero prowess either, but we're talking about road cars here not their F1 effort. One look at the AMG One and Valkyrie and you can tell which one is more extreme and uncompromising aero wise. Of course, until they publish official downforce figures this is all just speculation on our part.

Interesting about the power. From what I know current hybrid F1 engines tops out at 1000 hp and the one in AMG One is supposedly detuned. Whereas the Aston we know has 1160 hp combined.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I don't doubt Merc's aero prowess either, but we're talking about road cars here not their F1 effort. One look at the AMG One and Valkyrie and you can tell which one is more extreme and uncompromising aero wise. Of course, until they publish official downforce figures this is all just speculation on our part.

We're talking about cars that are two steps away from being race cars, and we should be talking about the F1 effort because it's that effort that is putting these cars together in the first place. What I see is the standard Newey effort, a very tight package, and the Mercedes effort is taking again the corporate vision and putting it into a halo car with the F1 car underneath it.

Interesting about the power. From what I know current hybrid F1 engines tops out at 1000 hp and the one in AMG One is supposedly detuned. Whereas the Aston we know has 1160 hp combined.

The current F1 engines are pushing 1000+ and they've been able to reach this due to specialized fuels, top end work fueling systems in general and the hybrid unit changes they've continually developed. This is while still dealing with FIA restriction on the amount of boost, fuel flow, and rpm regulation. Which other than RPM doesn't have to be worried about with a road car that doesn't need to meet said restrictions. The numbers they've claimed for the the AMG One is 1250 hp and the Valkyrie is 1160, now this gets equalized when you compare weight, since the One is like 150-200 pounds heavier than than the Valkyrie.

 

[McLaren]

Regarding Aston's lower end MR supercars, personally I don't like their new direction. They all look too similar and risk cheapening the brand like McLaren now. The Valkyrie should be special and exist above and beyond all other Astons both in design and performance. I get that they want to compete with 488, 720S, Huracan but at least change up the design a little (DP-100 anyone?) and don't use the Vanquish name.

I'm actually in agreement here. The 003 as a baby Valk? I can dig it. Potentially turning the Vanquish into that same style? Not a fan. The Valkyrie, imo, isn't exactly the prettier car in comparison to the One, but putting that it "works" feels tame for it's incredible design. The more they toned it down for the Vanquish Concept however, the more I would prefer a more traditional Aston approach.

 

[mustafur]

We're talking about cars that are two steps away from being race cars, and we should be talking about the F1 effort because it's that effort that is putting these cars together in the first place. What I see is the standard Newey effort, a very tight package, and the Mercedes effort is taking again the corporate vision and putting it into a halo car with the F1 car underneath it.



The current F1 engines are pushing 1000+ and they've been able to reach this due to specialized fuels, top end work fueling systems in general and the hybrid unit changes they've continually developed. This is while still dealing with FIA restriction on the amount of boost, fuel flow, and rpm regulation. Which other than RPM doesn't have to be worried about with a road car that doesn't need to meet said restrictions. The numbers they've claimed for the the AMG One is 1250 hp and the Valkyrie is 1160, now this gets equalized when you compare weight, since the One is like 150-200 pounds heavier than than the Valkyrie.

With cars like these the Aero is going to be more important in determining the faster car over power to weight anyway.

The Mercedes will probably have the advantage since it's coming out later and they can make revisions based on what they see from the Valkrie.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

With cars like these the Aero is going to be more important in determining the faster car over power to weight anyway.

The Mercedes will probably have the advantage since it's coming out later and they can make revisions based on what they see from the Valkrie.

Power to weight is still going to make quite the difference especially when aero is involved...

 

[mustafur]

Power to weight is still going to make quite the difference especially when aero is involved...

Not when they are similar, there is no regs to adhere to so the gains from Aero is much more substantial then it would be from F1 or any racing series for example.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Not when they are similar, there is no regs to adhere to so the gains from Aero is much more substantial then it would be from F1 or any racing series for example.

Considering that power is what helps generate the speed to move a car with such high downforce loads, any power advantages are quite significant, and more so with the type of torque curve the V6 hybrid turbos make. The V12 seems to be more of an old school F1

 

[LeGeNd-1]

The current F1 engines are pushing 1000+ and they've been able to reach this due to specialized fuels, top end work fueling systems in general and the hybrid unit changes they've continually developed. This is while still dealing with FIA restriction on the amount of boost, fuel flow, and rpm regulation. Which other than RPM doesn't have to be worried about with a road car that doesn't need to meet said restrictions. The numbers they've claimed for the the AMG One is 1250 hp and the Valkyrie is 1160, now this gets equalized when you compare weight, since the One is like 150-200 pounds heavier than than the Valkyrie.

Interesting there about the 1250 hp comment. Most official Merc press blurbs I've read only said 1000+ and no more concrete than that. I can understand F1 engines are highly regulated, but converting it to road use surely will place restrictions on it as well (idle RPM, reliability, drivability, emissions/sound regulations, etc). As you said it's gonna cancel out the One's heavier weight somewhat, but I as mustafur said at this level of hypercars aero is going to play a bigger factor in laptimes. AMG will probably hold high end acceleration and top speed advantage but Aston will outcorner it.

Exciting times ahead for sure. We still haven't seen the P1 replacement (or the BC 03 inspired by Vision GT) from McLaren as well. The ICE might be getting obsolete but they are going out with a bang 👍

 

[SebiGT89]

I hope someone here has the technical knowledge but every time press releases said something about aero they give you ``about 1000kg of downforce´´ and that´s ok but... 1000 kg at... 120mph? 200? maximun speed? it changes everything. In the latest Valkyrie´s Sim test, most of the journalist that drove it where told that they where 25 secs around spa quicker than with a generic hypercar (more P1 because of Goodwin involment). Doing some maths 2.38 min is the best time set by a P1 IRL, - 25 segs (driven by Goodwin) give us 2.13 to do a Spa lap. thats Lmp2 peace. Far from ``f1 lap times´´ promises but insane for a road legal car anyway.