At what refresh rate could GT5 be running at ?.

[Smoke&Slide]

As most of us know, GT5P runs at roughly 60 fps.With improved ambient audio as mentioned by KY, & if this is real time ambient audio GT5 would need to run from at least 200 fps to keep up with the other effects.To keep all at the same speed, everything in the game needs to be syncronised.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

*avoids question*

 

[johny_k990]

What?

Your post dont make much sense mate. If more features are added to the game the Frame rate is surely going to suffer. So it wont be 200FPS but more like 40-50 or maybe even stay at 60 as it is.

Its all about how the engine is programmed and what the Cell can Handle.

Thought i dont get your post. Are you telling us what its going to be/Should be or are you asking us.

What is the point of this post?

 

[snowgt]

Ahem, sorry, need a moment to collect myself. Ok...aaaactually, by your logic, the game would have to run at 44100 fps. See what's wrong...?

 

[Dave A]

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say, but the game will run at a faster refresh rate than the fram rate, and that's a good thing. We don't want only 60 calculations per second, that needs to be in the hundereds. I think Forza 3 is supposed to be 300hz/s or something like that.

 

[magicalgin]

perhaps he thinks fps = ping?

 

[G.T.Ace]

That thread is so wrong in so many things, awesome.

 

[andrewyhy]

I was shocked to see '200fps' to be honest.
I think OP was trying to say 200 Hz/s though.

 

[Mr P510]

It's clear PD are in another media lock-down with these kind of threads,although I guess the question is relevant.

 

[peter_vod69]

I literally do not understand one word of that...

 

[pay2021]

My lcd runs at 60 hz., but i know theres brands that you can run at more refresh rates at 1080p.
And i think you also talk about the audio sampling frequency? i suppose the GT5P runs at more than 48 khz. no?

I find this PS3 specs refer to audio(and more)

http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html#PS3_Audio

I wonder if i help.

Sorry my english.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

That thread is so wrong in so many things, awesome.

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Messiah]

I think what the OP means is the frame rate - but has seen TV specs advertising 100/200/600Hz etc and got confuddled.

My understanding is that GT5 is meant to run at 60 frames per second. The refresh rate is dependant upon the monitor/tv you're using which tries to interpolate the signal being sent from the source (PS3 in this case) and add more frames to give the impression of a smoother image - something you might nake use of when watching a blu-ray.

This tv feature that adds frames should be switched off to avoid lag when gaming, as basically the tv cannot calculate what the next frame should be until it's loaded the next image sent to it - effectively you're trying to play with a deliberate delay being caused the tv - some games like guitar hero have options built in to detect this "input lag".

If your tv has a "game" mode you should be using that as this switches off all the background processing being done by the tv.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Yes the real time audio can run upwards of 200 fps, so i assumed the graphical fps would need to be the same never mind.
Thanks anyways.

 

[WolfRacer543]

I think Forza 3 is supposed to be 300hz/s or something like that.

I think OP was trying to say 200 Hz/s though.

Its just Hz, not Hz/s By definition hertz is 1 cycle per second.

 

[TokyoDrift]

Actually, by definition, hertz (like any other SI unit) should begin with a lowercase letter when used in the middle of a sentence...

 

[amar212]

I think OP is reffering to physics calculation refresh-rate, which is something we'll never know preciselly.

Just by digging my own brains I remember that Prologue was something around 360Hz, something similar to Forza 3 - but I really do not know from where has somebody pulled-out those numbers.

However, I also remember that Kaz (was it him?) somewhere said that GT5 should have double-the-phisycs-refresh-rate compared to Prologue, which means somewhere around 700Hz realms.

What that mean in praxis, does it mean 700Hz per one car, or 700Hz for all cars in the field, does it mean tyres-only, does it mean overall HZ imput of the engine - only God knows.

But is it really matter at all?

No. Those number doesn't mean anything. They just fuel fanboy and marketing bull all over the internets

 

[TBR 427]

I think OP is reffering to physics calculation refresh-rate, which is something we'll never know preciselly.

Just by digging my own brains I remember that Prologue was something around 360Hz, something similar to Forza 3 - but I really do not know from where has somebody pulled-out those numbers.

However, I also remember that Kaz (was it him?) somewhere said that GT5 should have double-the-phisycs-refresh-rate compared to Prologue, which means somewhere around 700Hz realms.

What that mean in praxis, does it mean 700Hz per one car, or 700Hz for all cars in the field, does it mean tyres-only, does it mean overall HZ imput of the engine - only God knows.

But is it really matter at all?

No. Those number doesn't mean anything. They just fuel fanboy and marketing bull all over the internets

LOLWUT

Doesn't the PS3 itself only run at 550Hz? I'm fairly sure you can't have a game working faster than the hardware that's using it.

Sure, if anybody is going to speed up time by thirty-odd percent (or do I mean slow down time, I can't remember), it'd be PD, but seriously, what?


Back somewhat on-topic, I remember hearing the same thing as Amar a while ago (360Hz for Prologue), but how they plan on increasing on that is beyond anything I know as possible. Sure, 400, 500 if they go for gold, but there's no way in hell 700+ on the PS3 is going to happen.

To the OP, you've linked frames per second to calculations per second. GT5P calculated physics, calls audio, and the AI has a think at 360Hz. 360 times a second the game can do something.

But showing/animating (not just calculating) the movement, as well as rendering the 'scene' can only happen 60 times a second, because it's more intensive.

Basically, for every frame you see on the screen, it has cycled through the physics 6 times, the AI has had a think 6 times and every other line of code has been run through 6 times.

The Audio is only called in those cycles; and then played (otherwise the highest pitch currently possible would be 360Hz, try Googling 360Hz and see if you can hear anything). It is handled separately from then on.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Actually, by definition, hertz (like any other SI unit) should begin with a lowercase letter when used in the middle of a sentence...

Fixed

 

[Jay]

LOLWUT

Doesn't the PS3 itself only run at 550Hz? I'm fairly sure you can't have a game working faster than the hardware that's using it.

PS3's Cell processor runs at 3.2GHz, The RSX GPU is 550Hz.

 

[Metfanant]

Hh dear lord in heaven...there are like 4 things that have absolutely ZERO connection to eachother being talked about....

First of all...frame rate this is about how the video is displayed. It will be 60fps (frames per second). That has been the goal of PD since the start of development. I can't say with certainty if it will be locked at 60fps, but it will hit 60fps, and probably stay dang close to it no matter what is going on.

In regards to higher framerates, the PS3 does not have the juice to go much at all pass 60fps, not with the visuals GT5 will be putting out anyway...

Now, refresh rates. That is the rate at which your TV screen refreshes, and is measured in hz. By refresh I mean how often the screen wipes itself clean and displays a totally new image. The VAST majority of HDTV's out there (especially in North America) are 60hz, and this means for every second the screen refreshes 60 times. Now, newer sets out there are 120hz and 240hz (100hz, 200hz for our PAL friends)....

As for audio, yes that can also be measured in hz, but that is the frequency of the audio, and does not in anyway need to "match up" with the frame rate of the video. All that needs to be done is the audio and video need to be synced up so that it plays at the right time, the numbers of fps and hz do not need to match...

the other number people are talking about in hz is how often the physics engine updates itself....this is also measured in hz, and all they are talking about is again how many times per second the physics engine updates. From what I understand Forza is around 360hz, and i would assume GT5 will be somewhat higher

 

[TBR 427]

PS3's Cell processor runs at 3.2GHz, The RSX GPU is 550Hz.

Damn, how could I forget about that.

Anyway, I think pushing the thing to double the speed to 700Hz+ is going to be nigh on impossible.

I mean, the dedicated racing simulators like RFactor Pro are only pulling 800Hz (from memory), and they're used by half the F1 grid!

 

[highlifeGT]

What I find interesting is how "heart-set" PD was to put GT5 in 1080p. Some of the best looking visuals in a game for ps3 (uncharted 2, motorstorm: pacific rift) were only programed to run in 720p, and THEY look jaw dropping. Staying in 720p also allowed them to put much more detail and objects into their game, without having to worry about overloading the RSX (graphics chip) or even the spu or the cell (which can handle many tasks among them; extra graphic duties such as motion blur). 1080p is a different beast, and thats why MOST if not ALL developers would rather have a rich detailed game running smoothly at 720p, insead of what I'm about to mention below...
So when i watched a reply on GT5 prologue for the first time and noticed a rediculously crisp picture, yet abnormal choppy frame rate, I said WHY PD!!? WHY did you think we were so concerned with THE sharpest picture resolution possible? I notice the in-game races are all in a solid 50-60 frames per second, so why the F$%^ cant we watch our replays in the same smooth fasion?
I'll tell you why: PD went overboard by constricting themselves to a game built from the ground up to run in 1080p. an UNWISE choice imo. This explains the replay chop i witness evertime...all the focus on detail, without stopping to think, hm? Maybe it'll look better with more lush rich scenery and detiail instead of just cranking the resolution up as high as it'l go? Reguardless, I'm sure they eventually found out how incredibly hard it is to make a game like gt5 run at 60fps in 1080p, during a replay with many cars, and lots of scenery.
So what do they do to "mask" the chop? They add a bit of motion blur, and run the replay somwhere around 24 fps. YUK. this is my Biggest pet peeve for the new gt. Maybe they'll get smart and find a way to crank out a consistent 60 fps on a replay before it ships in march. But i guess since the race itself is still butter smooth, I'll still be happy. = )

 

[Jay]

Replay is 30fps and no I don't care for them to make it 60fps (in replay) especially if I have to view it in 720P.

 

[Devedander]

That thread is so wrong in so many things, awesome.

Head asplode!

 

[PowerK]

I think the proper term the OP was after is "internal tick-simulation", aka "internal tick-rate" of GT5 engine running on PS3.

Surely, the GT5 engine is supposed to render at 60 frames per second (60Hz or 60frames per second is rendering frequency). (Maybe 30Hz or 30 frames per second of rendering frequency in replay mode, if GT5 Prologue was any indication. However, until the final game is released, it's all speculation).

Internal tick-rate of final GT5 ? Who knows. We need official word from the developer to really find this out. Until then, it's all speculation.

 

[andrewyhy]

Its just Hz, not Hz/s By definition hertz is 1 cycle per second.

Ah, thanks for clearing things up. I appreciate that.

 

[MustangSVT]

Some of the things I'm reading in this thread are hilarious. Let's clear up a few things.

The term "refresh rate" refers in general to refresh rate of the display (TV/monitor).

NTSC standard is 60 Hz (that is 60 frames per second).

GT 5 will have a "refresh rate" of 60 Hz for the North American release because that is what the NTSC and HDTV standards are.

If we're talking what the speed of the physics calculation is, who knows. The Forza 2 one is 240 Hz I believe (that is 240 times a second), and Forza 3 is a similar number.

Audio in Dolby 5.1 and DTS is generally sampled at either 44.1 KHz or 48 KHz or 96 KHz in some cases (that is Kilo Hertz, aka 44100 Hz or 48000 Hz).

And to whoever said that 700 Hz is too much or something like that, then you are misinformed. The CPU of the PS3 runs in the GigaHertz (that is billions of times a second) and the GPU (video card) of the PS3 runs in figures of hundreds of MegaHertz (that is hundreds of millions of times a second). A couple hundred of various calculations a second is not anything special for 90s computer processors, let alone a PS3.

 

[dbarrade]

It makes me laugh when we talk about games calculating physics more times per second than they display the results.

The important factor is how often it checks what the steering wheel, throttle, brake, clutch and gear shift are doing.

Here is an example:

Lets say it checks the position of the throttle once a second, calculates physics 100,000 times a second and runs at 10,000 frames per second.

If I start with the throttle pedal not depressed, then at .0000001 of a second in I fully depress the throttle pedal.

The game calculates 0 acceleration 100,000 times, and draws 10,000 frames of my stationary car.

Suddenly at the 1 second mark it realises I've opened up the throttle and starts to perform acceleration calculations, starting with the engine and finally moving the wheels.

There is no reason for physics calulations per second to be greater than the number of times it draws a frame.

If user input is checked less than the frame rate, then all these extra physics calculations are all interpolation to match the frame rate and add nothing to the responsiveness nor accuracy of the simulation.

In my humble opinion if there were 60 accurate physics calculations per second and the user input was read only 30 times a second, but the frame rate remained at 60 frames per second I would be much happier than a maximum of 240 inaccurate calculations per second and a frame, physics calculation and user input rate that is not consistent.

This is where most racing games lose me, as soon as I get to the first corner, cars are braking, smoke is coming off tyres, the frame rate drops, the number of calculations per second drops, the game fails to realise I have turned the wheel... that's it, I'm out, back to Gran Turismo.

 

[Jay]

Here is an example:

Lets say it checks the position of the throttle once a second

Then the game would respond like a car with a conventional automatic (aka slushbox).