Audi R8 performance exaggerated?

[Ryan81]

Ok, maybe it's just me guys but I get the feeling the R8 V10's PI is a bit on the high side. I think 0-60 is 3.7 seconds with a top speed of 198mph. So, I do a 1/2 mile drag and I get 18.4 seconds. I then take out a Bertone Mantide which has over 100hp more and weighs less and yet it only manages to beat the Audi by .1 of a second. It has a higher PI than the Corvette ZR1. Uh, really? The Chevy would smoke the Audi in a race.

Any idea why the performance is so exaggerated?

Also, would the 2004 S4 be quicker than the RS2 Avant in real life? I mean, stats claim the RS2 does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds (the S4 does it in about 5.4/5.5) but how is that possible when the new RS6 Avant with 250hp + more does it in 4.6 likewise??? The RS2 only has 311hp and its weight can't be that low to justify a 0-60 time of 4.6 seconds. In the game, it's closer to about 5.3 or so.

 

[Luminis]

So, I do a 1/2 mile drag and I get 18.4 seconds. I then take out a Bertone Mantide which has over 100hp more and weighs less and yet it only manages to beat the Audi by .1 of a second. It has a higher PI than the Corvette ZR1. Uh, really? The Chevy would smoke the Audi in a race.

PI isn't exactly reffering to the performance in a drag race. It's the based on a track with all kinds of corners, so there's a big difference to be expected here. The reason the R8 does that well there is because of the huge advantage it has when launching, thanks to being all wheel driven.

Also, would the 2004 S4 be quicker than the RS2 Avant in real life?

Ten years of difference. Ten years of improvements to the suspension, the gearing, AWD system, clutch and tyres. So, yes.

I mean, stats claim the RS2 does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds (the S4 does it in about 5.4/5.5) but how is that possible when the new RS6 Avant with 250hp + more does it in 4.6 likewise??? The RS2 only has 311hp and its weight can't be that low to justify a 0-60 time of 4.6 seconds. In the game, it's closer to about 5.3 or so.

The RS2 has a kerb weight of 1600kg (3200lbs), the current RS6 weights more than 2000kg (4000lbs). That's a pretty darn big difference.

 

[Ryan81]

PI isn't exactly reffering to the performance in a drag race. It's the based on a track with all kinds of corners, so there's a big difference to be expected here. The reason the R8 does that well there is because of the huge advantage it has when launching, thanks to being all wheel driven.
Ten years of difference. Ten years of improvements to the suspension, the gearing, AWD system, clutch and tyres. So, yes.
The RS2 has a kerb weight of 1600kg (3200lbs), the current RS6 weights more than 2000kg (4000lbs). That's a pretty darn big difference.

Lumi, I understand the PI does not always represent which car would be quicker in a drag race but I mean the ZR1 has well over 100hp more and weighs the same. But how is it that the Mantide only scrapes a win against the R8? Also, how is it that the R8 manages a 1/2 faster than pretty much ALL it's closest rivals, even cars which in reality have a faster 0-60 time?

So even though the RS2 Avant does 0-60 in 4.6 and the S4 '04 in about 5.5, it catches it up and manages to pass it before the 1/2 mile is up? Even 400kg more can't explain the same 0-60 time. It has an extra 260hp, after all. That's a s***load of horses.

 

[buttsneeze]

I posted about this on the Forzamotorsport forums, I'll paste my post here:

I bought an Audi R8 4.2 and upgraded it to the top of A class. Its 0-60 is 4.2 and its lateral grip is 0.95g. Top speed is just over 200 mph. Then I bought a Mercedes E63 AMG and upgraded it to the top of A class. Its 0-60 is 3.3 and its lateral grip is 1.05g, with a top speed of 212 mph. The Mercedes is significantly faster in every way. The performance of the R8 is closer to B class than A class. It's odd because I have other AWD cars that are competitive in their respective classes (AWD SLS AMG in S class does 0-60 in 2.5 and pulls 1.1g, AWD VW GTI Mk3 in B class does 0-60 in 4.6 and pulls 0.98g, Audi S4 in A class has the same acceleration as the R8 but pulls 1.08g vs 0.95g). It's just the R8. The R8 V10 also has this issue, being pretty slow compared to other S class cars when upgraded to the top of S (0-60 in 3.3 vs 2.5, same lateral grip as the SLS)

I compared the R8 4.2 with the E63 AMG around Hockenheim Short. I managed a 1:11.24 with the R8 and a 1:10.25 with the E63 AMG. Both cars only have tire and power upgrades, for the most part. Suspension and differentials are stock. The R8 is also quite a handful for an AWD car, having lots of mechanical and power oversteer and not a whole lot of grip, which sort of eliminates the 'easy to drive' aspect of AWD. The E63 is no harder to drive despite having more power and being RWD. Considering that this is a fairly short, handling-focused track, any handling advantage the R8 might have here would be erased further on a faster track, since the Mercedes destroys it in acceleration and speed.

PI is way too high for both R8 versions.

 

[VXR]

Or it could be that factors other than the R8's speed, such as its chassis and handling characteristics mean a well-driven one could be much more effective against certain cars?

 

[Luminis]

Lumi, I understand the PI does not always represent which car would be quicker in a drag race but I mean the ZR1 has well over 100hp more and weighs the same. But how is it that the Mantide only scrapes a win against the R8? Also, how is it that the R8 manages a 1/2 faster than pretty much ALL it's closest rivals, even cars which in reality have a faster 0-60 time?

the ZR-1 may have 100HP more, but it will struggle to launcch anywhere near as fast.

A 620HP, 3020lbs Porsche GT2RS launches from 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. The current Porsche Turbo S weighs around 3200lbs, only has 530HP but Road & Track did 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, much faster than the much more powerful, much lighter GT2RS.

Launching a car fast hinges on a lot of things, not only power and weight. The Mantide will probably create wheelspin well into second gear, maybe even third, so you can't floor it outright, as opposed to the R8.

So even though the RS2 Avant does 0-60 in 4.6 and the S4 '04 in about 5.5, it catches it up and manages to pass it before the 1/2 mile is up? Even 400kg more can't explain the same 0-60 time. It has an extra 260hp, after all. That's a s***load of horses.

Uh, yeah, that additional amount of horsepower is the reason it is able to catch a car that much lighter over the course of a half mile drag race.

Sticking with the Porsche example aboth, a GT2RS will be much faster from 60-120 than a Porsche Turbo S. And why is that? Because launch and acelleration are not influenced by the same factors as much. Grips isn't as much of an issue when going from 60 to 120 as it is from 0-60 and the same goes for the weight of a car.

 

[Ryan81]

You make some good points Lumi but I'm still skeptical about certain things (like the S4 vs RS2 Avant discrepancy etc) but if a car i.e. R8 V10 goes from 0-60 (in other words, launches from a stand still in 3.7 seconds) how is it that a RWD car like the Mantide which unofficially goes from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, weighs less and has over 100hp more, only just manages to scrape a win? Surely between 60-120mph, it would pull away a lot more from the R8?

 

[imported_barryl85]

All this talking about drag racing and no mention of torque?

 

[imported_JJ72]

AWD vs RWD launch, isn't that simple?

 

[imported_barryl85]

AWD vs RWD launch, isn't that simple?

Not really AWD can bog down in comparison, RWD should in some cases be better.

 

[VXR]

All this talking about drag racing and no mention of torque?

No mention of gearing either.

 

[Luminis]

You make some good points Lumi but I'm still skeptical about certain things (like the S4 vs RS2 Avant discrepancy etc) but if a car i.e. R8 V10 goes from 0-60 (in other words, launches from a stand still in 3.7 seconds) how is it that a RWD car like the Mantide which unofficially goes from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, weighs less and has over 100hp more, only just manages to scrape a win? Surely between 60-120mph, it would pull away a lot more from the R8?

Factory claims are often just that, factory claims. Also, launching the car is something you'll need to be pretty good at, to get the perfect results that these claims are often based on. It's not only that an AWD car can launch itself faster, it's also far easier to get close to that perfect launch, at least ingame. I'd have to check it myself, but the Mantide is probably losing a lot of time when going from 0-30mph, where its wheelspin will kill the acceleration and it will continue to lose a lot of time until it reaches 3rd gear, I'd assume. The R8 will have managed to create a decent gap by that time. The Mantide will, of course, be faster from 60-120, but it still has a lot of the previously lost ground to cover.

As for the RS2 vs. S4, there's also gearing to be taken into account if you want to put the performance on the 1/2 mile and the 0-60 times into perspective. I can't check it right now, but if the RS2, for example, reaches 60mp/h in first gear while the S4 needs to shift into second, that's gonna cost the S4 a lot when it comes to its 0-60 time, but a lot less on the 1/2 mile. I'd also assume that the S4 has better aerodynamics, creating less drag. This isn't very influential on the 0-60 times, but gets more important the faster both cars go, giving it more of an advantage the faster they are.

barryl85 also makes a very good point. Not only are the torgue figures important (arguably moreso than the power figures), but the power and torgue curves would also have to be taken into account to answer this. As well as the differential settings, for example.

Just looking at power to weight ratio and the drivetrain isn't going to tell you much, really.

 

[imported_barryl85]

No mention of gearing either.

Yip also a big factor, its not always about Weight vs BHP.

 

[imported_JJ72]

Not really AWD can bog down in comparison, RWD should in some cases be better.

it won't bog down when you have 500hp and no concern of clutch wear, just dump it and it files, a world of difference at least in Forza.

 

[rocketcaron]

The day a R8 V10 beats a ZR-1 around probably 90% of the tracks in the world has not arrived... with a fairly good driver off course!

 

[IceZ]

I thought the R8 actually felt sluggish. Could have just been cause i was racing R1's before using it.

 

[Grundelstomp]

Ok, maybe it's just me guys but I get the feeling the R8 V10's PI is a bit on the high side. I think 0-60 is 3.7 seconds with a top speed of 198mph. So, I do a 1/2 mile drag and I get 18.4 seconds. I then take out a Bertone Mantide which has over 100hp more and weighs less and yet it only manages to beat the Audi by .1 of a second. It has a higher PI than the Corvette ZR1. Uh, really? The Chevy would smoke the Audi in a race.

Any idea why the performance is so exaggerated?

Also, would the 2004 S4 be quicker than the RS2 Avant in real life? I mean, stats claim the RS2 does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds (the S4 does it in about 5.4/5.5) but how is that possible when the new RS6 Avant with 250hp + more does it in 4.6 likewise??? The RS2 only has 311hp and its weight can't be that low to justify a 0-60 time of 4.6 seconds. In the game, it's closer to about 5.3 or so.

Actually there is a real world analog to this, believe it or not.

On one of the episodes of american top gear, the one when Tanner broke the indoor speed record. They first tried to use a Corvette ZR1 but it didn't have the grip to get a good launch so they switched to a *drum roll please* Audi R8 V10, which did have the grip and they beat the record. So ya, sometimes it about grip and not horse power. Of course they were inside a warehouse with a really slick surface but it still illustrates the point.

p.s. not here to start a debate on american top gear so save it.