Audi S4 '03 tune udpated YET AGAIN :P

[sean10mm]

***Tune updated, see below!***

For a car meant to be Audi's answer to the M3 this turned out to be...bad. Really bad. It has power and grip out the wazoo, but the understeer is absolutely brutal. So I set myself a simple challenge: tune the S4 '03 suspension, braking and LSD settings so it can keep up with an M3 CSL '03 using stock suspension, braking and LSD settings at Trial Mountain. Since my M3 CSL '03 was at 540 PP and had racing soft tires, that's what the S4 '03 was tuned up with.

My settings below were, much to my surprise as a noob tuner, a HUGE improvement, but I'd love to hear any feedback from the more experienced tuners on getting it just right. If I post the final tune anyplace else anyone who helps will be credited obviously.

Compared to the stock S4 this tune turns in a ton better and doesn't understeer like a dump truck under braking, but it still seems kind of understeery-y from mid corner to exit. I'm thinking of reducing the LSD numbers even further to something like 5/10/5 front & rear since it has such a superabundance of grip anyway, but other than that I really don't have any ideas.

 

[XDesperado67]

My first thought would be to swap your ride height settings. I would go with something like 0/-20. Also because of weight distribution I would stiffen the front springs to about 9. Both these should help turn in and ability to hold line through turn and on exit, at least offline. For online you'll probably want the front ride height a bit closer to the rear and will possibly want to add a bit more positive rear toe to help tighten the car up a bit.

 

[LeftyWright69]

What track are you trying to tune for?

 

[Onboy123]

It's in the OP. Tuned for Trial Mountain.

 

[sean10mm]

My first thought would be to swap your ride height settings. I would go with something like 0/-20. Also because of weight distribution I would stiffen the front springs to about 9. Both these should help turn in and ability to hold line through turn and on exit, at least offline. For online you'll probably want the front ride height a bit closer to the rear and will possibly want to add a bit more positive rear toe to help tighten the car up a bit.

Your advice is kind of confusing me because compared to the default suspension settings this tune lowers the front relative to the rear, softens the front springs and stiffens the back springs and reduces positive rear toe...and the result was massively improved turn-in.



EDIT: Now that I think of it, my changes are relative to the default settings of the fully adjustable suspension, so maybe that's where part of my confusion is coming?

 

[Onboy123]

Well, though it's very nice to swap ideas and theories on tuning, I think some proper feedback from driving the damn thing is going to be more useful more of the time.


















Which is where I come in. (Yes Desperado, I've found some inspiration to write again) I've got one of these, so I'll be giving some feedback on it in the coming days.

 

[sean10mm]

Well, though it's very nice to swap ideas and theories on tuning, I think some proper feedback from driving the damn thing is going to be more useful more of the time.


















Which is where I come in. (Yes Desperado, I've found some inspiration to write again) I've got one of these, so I'll be giving some feedback on it in the coming days.

Outstanding! 👍

 

[LeftyWright69]

I'll post something later for you and you can be my Ginipig, I love to get feedback on what works for me.

 

[sean10mm]

This is the main guide I was working from as a starting point, it was posted in one of the sticky topics at the top of the forum. Near as I can tell the stock S4 '03 understeers massively in all phases.

 

[XDesperado67]

I've not tried your settings yet. But based my reply off my testing of the S4s (both the '98 & the '03) for the current shootout. With the higher front height and stiffer front springs I was seeing much improved handling and making my best times around Laguna Seca. Since I drive offline almost exclusively these settings are likely to be a bit oversteering online, thus your settings might be better suited for online use. Also its come to my attention that for wheel users a slightly tighter rear end is preferable to my fairly loose settings that I use for the ds3 because the wheel provides more sensitive and accurate control.

Also not sure but you may want to check the origin of that chart as a lot of the tuning information was brought over from GT4 and GTP. It's still useful to get started with but there are differences between the different games that require some adjustments in tuning.

 

[sean10mm]

I've not tried your settings yet. But based my reply off my testing of the S4s (both the '98 & the '03) for the current shootout. With the higher front height and stiffer front springs I was seeing much improved handling and making my best times around Laguna Seca. Since I drive offline almost exclusively these settings are likely to be a bit oversteering online, thus your settings might be better suited for online use. Also its come to my attention that for wheel users a slightly tighter rear end is preferable to my fairly loose settings that I use for the ds3 because the wheel provides more sensitive and accurate control.

Also not sure but you may want to check the origin of that chart as a lot of the tuning information was brought over from GT4 and GTP. It's still useful to get started with but there are differences between the different games that require some adjustments in tuning.

It's possible I improved it by accident with one change, and a bunch of the other changes are irrelevant or contradictory to what I should be doing. Or maybe it's the difference in tracks playing a partial role. I wouldn't have presumed to post it at all except that I was surprised at how much better my attempt at a tune worked for me compared to the default...it instantly took 2-3 seconds off my lap times on a track I drive on all the time, so there seems to be something to it.

I'm also open to the idea that I'm totally wrong and have no taste in tunes because by driving style is poor.

 

[Onboy123]

Ok, had a quick drive, now for the report:

The good-

- Has a lot of grip, though it maybe down to the tyres

- The back will happily step out if you trail-brake

- Has decent top speed and acceleration

Need improvements-

- Fix the understeer when you exit a corner should you do without trail-braking

- Feels rather cumbersome and clumbsy

- Although acceleration and top speed is good, the car will benefit from having a FC gearbox tune as it will hit the rev limiter from a standing start in 1st, but stall should you do that start in 2nd

 

[Adrenaline]

Just for future reference, I find that flow chart to be incorrect for GT5. Just my .02, good luck with your tuning.

 

[sean10mm]

Ok, had a quick drive, now for the report:

The good-

- Has a lot of grip, though it maybe down to the tyres

- The back will happily step out if you trail-brake

- Has decent top speed and acceleration

Need improvements-

- Fix the understeer when you exit a corner should you do without trail-braking

- Feels rather cumbersome and clumbsy

- Although acceleration and top speed is good, the car will benefit from having a FC gearbox tune as it will hit the rev limiter from a standing start in 1st, but stall should you do that start in 2nd

The tires and AWD help the grip for sure, but before tuning it had horrible turn-in, and under braking would simply not turn at all.

I agree 100% that understeer on corner exit is still a problem with this tune.

The car starts at something like 1660 kg and is nose-heavy so I don't know how nimble it can be really, though obviously I'd like to make the best of it.

 

[Onboy123]

Just for future reference, I find that flow chart to be incorrect for GT5. Just my .02, good luck with your tuning.

You've returned?!?!?!?? Where have you been these few weeks?!?!? The tuning forums has lost its rough attitude cuz you ain't around! so welcome 'back', now bugger off and start updating your google site

FYI: I meant none of above spitefully 👍

 

[sean10mm]

Just for future reference, I find that flow chart to be incorrect for GT5. Just my .02, good luck with your tuning.

Any suggestions for a better alternative? Thoughts on where it's wrong?

My tiny brain suspects that with a nose-heavy car it does in fact need harder springs up front since the last thing it needs is more weight transfer in that direction, ever. Especially since I'm sending all the torque to the back wheels anyway.

My suspicion is that I fixed the turn-in problems with the toe/camber, the braking problems with the brake balance, and everything else is a muddle. I'm thinking stiffer springs in general with the front harder than the rear, lowering the whole thing more and seeing how it goes?

 

[XDesperado67]

I'm pulling up my rough tune of the car now to give you a couple ideas on things to try. Might or might not work for you.

 

[Onboy123]

Well, you wanted it to rival a M3 CSL, right? Take the CSL for a drive with the weight leveled with the Audi and position the ballast to give the same weight distribution. There will be differences in how they drive, so take note of what feels sharper/better in the CSL and try to achieve the same effect with the Audi.

 

[XDesperado67]

Okay try the following
ride height -5/-25
Spring rate 8.9/6.1
Anti-Roll bars 4/4
Camber 2.4/1.2
Toe -20/0

 

[praiano63]

The Audi S4 '03 is one of the best stock tune in the game. Just need a gearbox setting to do very good on the nurburgring for example.

Laguna seca is an unique special track and need a car with special settings to be performant. So, i don't think it is a good reference.

I can't test your settings now but what i can say is if you want to correct the understeer ,your ride height is totaly wrong, like you know , the left ride height setting number (and only for this setting) is the REAR of your car. So with -15/-05 you augment the tendency to understeer.

Twisting this value can be a first path. like -05/-15 or others value ,10 points seems to be a good height diferrence.

Have a good day.

 

[Adrenaline]

You've returned?!?!?!??

No. I'm just here to stay up to date with the most recent tunes for my site.

 

[sean10mm]

Thanks for the ideas; when I get back to my PS3 later today I'm turning this tune on its ear. The only things I think are in the right ballpark from my first try are the brake balance, camber and toe; I'm pretty sure they're what caused the better turn-in and got rid of the horrible understeer when braking.

I'm trying the following:

1) Lower the car more. I'm torn between lowering the whole thing more (to get the center of gravity of this heavy thing down as far as I can) and lowering the back more than the front, so I'm trying both and using whichever one I like best.
2) Harder springs overall, with a bigger difference between front (harder) and rear (softer). As nose heavy as it is I want to minimize weight transfer to the front, I think. And both the fact that I'm lowering the car more and the sheer weight of the pig suggest heavier springs in general.
3) Taking the roll bars back to 4/4. I'm not sure my changed settings actually accomplished anything.

Once I've done that I'll revisit the braking, toe/camber, LSD, etc., but I think those are closer to right than the spring rates and the height.

EDIT: Any thoughts on damper settings?

 

[sean10mm]

Thanks mainly to XDesperado67's suggestions I've managed to greatly improve the tune. The corner exit understeer isn't 100% abolished but it's a lot better. I'm absolutely crushing my old times with this one. Suggestions are still welcome of course.

Changes are in bold.

Audi S4 '03 "M3 Hunter"

SETUP

Oil change & engine rebuild
Stage 3 weight reduction & chassis reinforcement
Power upgrades to ~540PP
Fully adjustable suspension, LSD, DCCD
Racing soft tires (also tested with Sports Hard tires, works great with them too)

Differential
Initial: 7/7
Accel: 23/23
Braking: 13/8

DCCD: 35 F / 65 R

Suspension F/R
Ride Height: -15/-20
Spring Rate: 11.0/7.0
Extension: 6/4
Compression: 5/3
Anti-Roll: 4/6
Camber (-) 2.0/1.2
Toe: –0.20/-0.05

Brakes
Brake Balance Controller
Brake Balance F/R: 5/7

Intended Driving Options
Transmission: Manual (MT)
ABS: 1
Everything else: OFF

9/5/11 - Took it to Laguna Seca and fiddled with it some more, giving more thought to the LSD settings and torque split. A little bit more torque to the front seems to have improved the balance of the car.

 

[XDesperado67]

Your settings look very good, will have to try them myself. The numbers I sent you were just my rough tune of the car from testing at Laguna Seca so I'm not surprised that they were off the optimal settings for trial mountain. Just glad they helped point you in the right direction.👍👍

 

[LeftyWright69]

Thought I had one but I'll have to go shoping ...oh well

 

[sean10mm]

I'm looking forward to hearing what people think of the new tune... I feel like there is a little bit more to be done with it but I can't put my finger on what it is.

 

[praiano63]

I'm looking forward to hearing what people think of the new tune... I feel like there is a little bit more to be done with it but I can't put my finger on what it is.

Hi, i'll drive your tune later. Did you test it online??

 

[sean10mm]

I've only used it offline so I'm not 100% sure it will be ideal online.

 

[sean10mm]

Well, I've updated the tune again after testing it at Laguna Seca. Seems to be more balanced now. Props to Highlandor too for some general advice on tuning AWD cars.

I also have a TVR V8S '92 tune that came out surprisingly well. Once I tweak the brakes I'll post it in a day or two.

 

[Highlandor]

I can't test your settings now but what i can say is if you want to correct the understeer ,your ride height is totaly wrong, like you know , the left ride height setting number (and only for this setting) is the REAR of your car. So with -15/-05 you augment the tendency to understeer.

Completely wrong. Take any car in the game, add custom suspension, lower the front to the lowest and the rear to the highest settings.

Exit settings and take a look at the car rotating in the garage, the front is slammed and the rear sky high 'gasser' style. It's only the 'effects' of the ride height which is reversed, not the figures in settings themselves.

Well, I've updated the tune again after testing it at Laguna Seca. Seems to be more balanced now. Props to Highlandor too for some general advice on tuning AWD cars.

I also have a TVR V8S '92 tune that came out surprisingly well. Once I tweak the brakes I'll post it in a day or two.

Cool, no problem...

Glad it helped you out.

Don't always tune offline, there's a whole 'new world' out there for online tuning, it'll really open your eyes and highlight certain things you wouldn't notice or need to know offline.

It'll help you become a much better 'all round' tuner 👍

Best of luck for the future

H