Axis vs. Allies

[Gil]

I recently got some flak re: Japanese Autos being junk. And needing to be kitted up to compete.
So How 'bout this for kicks and giggles:

RX-7 vs. Jag XKR (stock or dollar for dollar) or to even up costs
NSX(Japan) vs Jag XKR

GT-one Road Car (Nissan or Toyota) vs XJ 220 road car

Opel Speedster vs Lotus Elise

The rules are simple:
The cars must be straight from the dealer. No mods of any kind,

or You set an amount (say 150,000) to be spent and spend the same total amount on both cars.

With the GT-one Vs XJ220 You may spend the same amount on mods since these cars must be won. Also, you should go road car vs road car, or, racecar vs racecar

With the Speedster vs the Elise: I'm already pretty sure a stock Elise will beat up on a stock Opel, but dollar vs dollar may make a more even match.

O yeah, the Track: in order to avoid giving a clear advantage, Rome Circuit. That will give equal time to top end speed and to superior handling. For those of you that HATE Rome How about Tokyo R246?

Have at it y'all.
Also axis, no major flaming of allies, and allies, no major flaming of axis. (talking smack is allowed, but keep it friendly).

If this has high enough interest maybe I throw in the American cars for the allies to again shift the course of the "war".

 

[Talentless]

Do these cars have a similar enough power to weight ratio and aerodynamic design and such to make driver skill the deciding factor?

 

[Gil]

I know the RX-7 and the Jag have similar power/wt
I'm not sure about the XK 220 vs GT 1 or GT-0ne
I think the Elise has better ratio than the Speedster.
But this comp is all about the "Benjamins"

(For those of you out side the U.S. Benjamin Franklin is on our 100 dollar bill.)

 

[Axis maN]

u talkin to me ?

 

[RVDNuT374]

Is this a WWII replica, but with cars?

 

[Gil]

Sorry, I have been away from this for so long. Had a true family tragedy.
My intent with this comp:
I have been told that Japanese cars are junk.
My contention is that in this game which is of Japanese origin/design. Japanese cars are at a bit of an advantage.
It is my belief that in a dollar for dollar comp the Japanese cars will beat up on the others.
Have at it y'all.
Most importantly, have fun.

 

[Gil]

Is anybody out there?

 

[Gil]

Okay, it's been a month and nobody has even nibbled

So forget about adding the American cars into this.

I repeat: Is anybody out there? Or is this a good idea whose time has not come?

 

[hansk8]

yes somebody is here

 

[Gil]

Originally posted by hansk8
yes somebody is here

Thank you.
Are you willing to race?
Pick two cars that are together above and compare them and see what you can do with each with the same TOTAL investment.

 

[Dolbytone]

Hey Gil. I think this would be more tempting if it was fleshed out a bit. I for one am with you on the Japanese cars thing. I've seen people bash them quite a bit, however, the only cars that can compete with them on a bang for buck basis is the American cars IMO.

NEWay...

How about a more specific list of cars vs. cars and what you can actually do with them before the race. Maybe come up with 3 classes and have it be a 3 race series, one race for each class (naturally) and as many cars as possible to choose from for each class, acceptable modifications and whatnot listed before hand.

I'd be willing to flesh it out with you to maybe attract some more attention. I just got my 100% and am sorta looking for a project.

 

[Gil]

Sounds interesting.
My original thought was to do it like one of the "set amount to spend challenges" Like the 150,000 cr challenge, Or Hudson Jones' "Best car for 50k" challenge.
Only, I wanted to do a versus format.
I'm open to suggestions
If we changed it to a Short race series. It would have the advantage of having enough tracks to cater to several driving styles and/or strengths.

Now you've got me thinking...
Get back to me with ideas. This could be fun.

 

[Dolbytone]

Proposed Car Lists: Cars in italics cannot be bought from a dealer.

Round 1: Rome Circuit ~ Sports Tuned: A 150,000 Cr Challenge

Axis: Eligible Cars

Japan
Honda ~ CR-X del Sol SiR, Civic SiR-II, Civic Type R, Integra Type R, Accord Euro R, S2000, S2000 Type-v, NSX Type S Zero, NSX Type R
Mazda ~ Demio GL-X, Miata MX-5 1.8RS, Miata MX-5 LS, RX-7 Type RS, RX-7 Type RZ, RX-8 (75,000 Cr)
Mitsubishi ~ FTO GP Version R, Lancer Evolution VI RS, Lancer Evolution IV GSR, Lancer Evolution VI GSR Tommi Nakinen Edition, 3000 GT VR-4 Turbo, 3000 GT VR-4
Mugen ~ S2000(J) (65,000 Cr)
Nissan ~ Skyline GTS-t Type M, Skyline GT-R V spec II, Skyline GT-R V spec (R33), Skyline GT-R V spec (R34), Silvia K's 2000cc, 240SX K's Aero, Silvia Spec-R Aero, 240SX Fastback Type X, 300ZX Twin Turbo 2 Seater, 300ZX Twin Turbo 2 by 2
Spoon ~ Civic Type R(J) (100,000 Cr), Spoon S2000(J) (120,000 Cr)
Subaru ~ Impreza Sedan WRX STi Version VI, Impreza Wagon WRX STi Version VI, Impreza Sports Wagon WRX STi, Impreza Sedan WRX Sti, Impreza 22B STi Version
Tommy Kaira ~ ZZ-S
Toyota ~ Sprinter Trueno GT Apex, Celica SS-II, MR-S S Edition, Lexus IS, MR2 G-Limited, Altezza RS200, MR2 GT-S, Celica GT-Four, Supra SZ-R, Supra RZ,

Germany
Audi ~ S4, TT 1.8T quattro
BMW ~ 328 ci
Mercedes-Benz ~ SLK 2300 Kompressor, CLK 55, CL 600
Ope ~l Speedster
Ruf ~ 3400 S
Volkswagen ~ New Beetle, New Beetle RSI

Italy
Alfa Romeo ~ 156 2.5 V6 24v
Fiat ~ Coupe Turbo Plus

Allies: Eligible Cars

Great Brittain
Jaguar ~ XKR Coupe
Lotus ~ Elise 190, Esprit V8-SE, Esprit Sport 350, Motorsport Elise
TVR ~ Griffith 500, Tuscan Speed Six

USA
Acura ~ Integra Type R, 3.2CL Type S, NSX, RSX Type-S (30,000 Cr)
Chevrolet ~ Camaro Z28, Camaro SS, Corvette Grand Sport, Corvette Z06
Chrysler ~ PT Cruiser
Dodge ~ Viper GTS
Ford ~ Mustang SVT Cobra R

France
Peugeot ~ 206 S16
Renault ~ Clio Sport V6 24v

Round 2: Seattle II ~ Racing Tour:

Axis: Eligible Cars
Mercedes-Benz CLK Touring Car: [FR]
Opel Calibra Touring Car: [4WD]
Opel Astra Touring Car: [FR]
Calsonic Skyline: [FR]
Penzoil Nismo GT-R JGTC(J): [FR]
Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune (R34,J): [4WD]
Castrol Mugen NSX: [MR]

Allies: Eligible Cars
Renault Clio Sport Race Car: [MR]
Motorsport Elise: [MR]
Panoz Esperante GTR-1: [FR]
Corvette C5R: [FR]
Viper GTSR Team Oreca: [FR]


Round 3: Tokyo R246 ~ Hyper Road:

Axis: Eligible Cars
Toyota GT-One Road Car: [MR]
Nissan R390 Road Car: [MR]
Pagani Zonda C12: [MR]
Pagani Zonda (C12)S: [MR]

Allies: Eligible Cars
Jaguar XJ220 road car: [FR]
TVR Speed 12: [FR]
Dodge Viper Concept [FR]

 

[Dolbytone]

Okay, essentially I'm proposing that we plan for and run three races for three car categores, being Sports Tuned (or even stock), Racing Tour, and Hyper Road. Ideally, I guess we come up with a six to eight car selection for each category, and the third race could be a final showdown type deal, worth a little more than the other two races (assuming some sort of points thing applies) making it possible for some real upset type situations pending the final results... yanno, DRAMA!

I also think it would be cool if we ran a two team format, using the Axis and Ally idea. This way there could be individual titles and an overall competition between the two teams. Let me know if this is taking your idea a little too far.

 

[Gil]

All looks good, except for no Allies in the race tour. Maybe the Lotus Elise MotorSport
and Jag XK-220 and maybe C5-R or Camaro Race car to even things up and bring the Americans into the fray!

 

[Dolbytone]

DOH, well I sort of divided things up into Japanese and non-Japanese. Maybe if you listed Axis countries and Ally countries it would help since I for some reason am drawing a blank other than UK versus Germany.

Also, I think the Racing Tour category could easily get fat with cars so we might want to try and weed out a bit, but I figured that would happen when the testing phaze started. I can see right now that the Nismo Skyline R-tune will either need some help or scratched since it's so much heavier than the others listed.

 

[Gil]

Axis countries include: Japan, Germany and Italy.
Allies are: Great Britain, USA, France...

I just had a thought. If the cars have similar P/W ratios then excess weight won't matter. Cause the Jag XKR and the Aston Martin's are also heavy-weights.

 

[Der Alta]

This is starting to shape up into a very interesting challenge.

I'll keep my eye on you as it gets planned out

AO

 

[Dolbytone]

Thanks for the list Gil, it's helping a lot. Tell me what you think about this.

How about we run the first race, the Sports Tuned, like you were saying, straight up dollar for Yen or whatever. Make it a salary cap deal and whatever people can get out of the list for whatever money they're given is pretty much the challenge of it... a straight up 'Bang for Buck' challenge.

Then for the Racing Tour category, we try and even things up, and the cars will be raced as we decide they are all to be tuned in order to make them all competitive with each other.

For Hyper Road, we can take off all shackles and chains and let the 'boys stretch their legs' a bit. Allow unlimited money to be spent on the cars and whatnot... a true Hyper race if you will.

This way, we can not only have Axis vs. Allies going on in 3 classes of cars, but also have them racing in 3 categories or types of challenges. One for purchasing decisions, one for tuning abillity, and one for flat out seat of the pants driving skill... well, sort of.

 

[Gil]

Sounds like a plan to me

 

[pedrodaman]

This is looking very good indeed Can you post a summary of the rules etc for quick reference so i don't need to check all the post's again cheers that would be a big help

Also is this an open comp or is there a time limit for each category of race ?
If so when does it start or has it begun allready ??

Time to start a war

 

[Gil]

Actually, it's an open comp with no end date.
My hypothesis is that in the "Realm of GT3" Japanese cars will kick butt on everything else, WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF CASH INVESTED.
Dolbytone and I are "fleshing it out" a bit to get some folks interested.
There will be three categories, Sport Tuned, Race Tuned, and Hard tuned/Hyper Road.

The tentative car list is about 9 posts above this one.

Initially, you can run the cars BONE STOCK to establish a baseline and who is faster right off the lot.
Then/or with a set spending limit. (we're liking 150,000 - 200,000 per car) you buy AND build two cars, 1 axis and 1 Allies or if we get teams involved 1 team can represent axis, and 1 team can represent allies.

With the race cars, that already have suspension and driveline You may spend the same amount on both cars (to keep things "fair") I.E. C5R Vs Castrol Mugen NSX. Each team (or competitor) may spend the same amount to prep the cars (say 100,000 cr) then race on the selected track and compare results.
Same with the Hyper-Road/ Hard tuned cars.

Throwing the C5-R and Oreca Viper in the mix may even things up for the allies.

My predictions:
Japan/Germany will clean up in Sports tuned Category.
Race tuned category will go to the allies. (specifically the US)
Hard tuned/Hyper Road will go the axis.

I invite you to prove me wrong.

 

[Gil]

I decided on an open comp for two reasons. First, this can go on for a long time, and be a lot of fun. Second, with school starting for so many folks, and things picking up work and business-wise, I wanted to give all interested parties the opportunity to compete without the stress of having to meet deadlines.

BTW. to open things up a bit for the Sport tuned category, Maybe we should add the Corvettes, and SVT Mustang for the Allies, and the S2000's (Honda, Spoon, and Mugen) for the Axis.
When figuring up a spending limit remember to multiply the sale price by 4 of cars like the Spoon and Mugen S2000's

 

[pedrodaman]

Sounds good to me dude

I think your prediction maybe right that the Japanese cars will whip the allied cars with the exception of the viper and corvette but we will soon see what the out come is

Count me in

Cheers for the summary

 

[Dolbytone]

Ok Gil, I have amended the carlist for round 1 considerably. Let me know if you would like some cars either removed or added. I am still in the process of researching cars to use in the Racing Tour category. I simply have added the ones I have in my garage at the moment, but I know there are probably more that would be appropriate for this race.

Any comments suggestions or questions are welcome!

 

[Gil]

Is the Viper Concept a Road car? or is it classified as a race car?
It would add one more car to the Allies for Hyper Road.
And with the RX-8, Z-Concept, Mugen and Spoon cars are we going by the resale value, or the "real" value.
If we are using the "real" value the RX-8 and Z-Concept would be ineligible for the comp because they would cost 300,000.
Otherwise, everything looks GREAT.

 

[Dolbytone]

I got the price for those cars that I have listed in parenthesis like the Mugen and Spoons from what it would cost to purchase the car from one card to another... which coincidentally is the same as 4x resale, the figure you mentioned in an earlier post. I haven't looked for the Z Concept price yet, I have to juggle around some game saves to get it. If it's over 150,000 then you're right, it will be disqualified, but I didn't figure it would be that much.

I will add the Viper Concept to the Hyper Road category.

 

[Dolbytone]

Yeow! The Nissan Z Concept was 300,000 so it's Audi like 5000.

 

[Der Alta]

OK...I think I've got these rules and requirements figured out...

Can Gil or Dolbytone give me an official ruling on this layout?

Round 1: Rome
150,000 cr total spent on each car.
NSX Type R with mods Vs. Motor Sport Elise with mods (not to exceed 150,000, including price of car).

Round 2: Seattle II
Calsonic Skyline (Stock? Oil change?) vs. Viper GTSR Team Oreca (Same?)

Round 3: Tokyo R246
Pagani Zonda c12S (full mods) vs. TVR Speed 12 (Full mods)

As soon as I get a ruling, I'll start in on this one.

AO

 

[pedrodaman]

Originally posted by Der Alta
OK...I think I've got these rules and requirements figured out...

Can Gil or Dolbytone give me an official ruling on this layout?

Round 1: Rome
150,000 cr total spent on each car.
NSX Type R with mods Vs. Motor Sport Elise with mods (not to exceed 150,000, including price of car).

Round 2: Seattle II
Calsonic Skyline (Stock? Oil change?) vs. Viper GTSR Team Oreca (Same?)

Round 3: Tokyo R246
Pagani Zonda c12S (full mods) vs. TVR Speed 12 (Full mods)

As soon as I get a ruling, I'll start in on this one.

AO

That sounds like a plan to me