Ban on the pit bull terrier

[///M-Spec]

I just read that legislation will be proposed in Oklahoma to ban the American pit bull terrier, in light of a recent attack on a 3 year old boy by a neighbor's dog.

As both a parent and a dog owner, I have mixed feelings about the morality of such a law. In one sense I side with the dog owners the same way I side with gun owners. I'm sure that millions of pit bulls yestarday did NOT, in fact, maul or kill anyone and that the vast majority of them are loyal and sweet natured companions.

In the other sense, I see that some dog owners of powerful breeds handle them with no sense of the responsiblity such a animal requires. Some are even trained to attack and poorly trained at that. In that regard, I feel there should be some degree of accountability to protect the public.

What say you?


M

 

[ExigeEvan]

Pit bull terriers are one of many breeds that were bread to do a specific job. To fight.

Just like greyhouds race, bloodhounts scent track and Setters retrieve. They can't help it but appart from the owners having liscences this is the only option.

And just for background I come from a very stereotyping of dogs family. My parents will refuse to visit our houses when we are older if we have a Pitbull, Rottweiler, Doberman and possibly an Alsation.

 

[Famine]

The intrinsic problem with pitbulls is that when they bite, their jaws lock. It's almost impossible to get a pitbull off someone without beating the dog to death.

Legislation to control "dangerous breeds" already exist in the UK. They must be neutered, muzzled in public and secured in the home/garden so they cannot escape. If they attack anything they will be put down. All bull terriers are on this list.

Alsatians and Dobermans aren't. However Alsatians require quite specific accommodations - which aren't enshrined in law. Proper fencing to contain Alsatians must be 9 feet high, sheer, and have an inward overhang on top.

 

[Duke]

Alsatians and Rotts can be trained very well. They're smart dogs.

Unfortunately most modern Dobies have been bred for looks and so they are becoming too stupid to be trained well. 30-40 years ago they were smart disciplined dogs.

Pit bulls in the last 20 years have become a fad among the urban-gangsta-wannabe crowd and they have been bred for ferocity. The fact that the average fad owner is little smarter than the dog adds to the problem.

But that's not the dog's fault. They shouldn't be banned - but as with any dangerous weapon, perhaps there should be required training for both dog and owner, and severe penalties for failure to control the animal.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Alsatians and Rotts can be trained very well. They're smart dogs.

Unfortunately most modern Dobies have been bred for looks and so they are becoming too stupid to be trained well. 30-40 years ago they were smart disciplined dogs.

Pit bulls in the last 20 years have become a fad among the urban-gangsta-wannabe crowd and they have been bred for ferocity. The fact that the average fad owner is little smarter than the dog adds to the problem.

No denying they are smart dogs.

And also Alsations are being used less and less by the police because they are also being bred for show, which leads to weaker rear legs.

But that's not the dog's fault. They shouldn't be banned - but as with any dangerous weapon, perhaps there should be required training for both dog and owner, and severe penalties for failure to control the animal.

But how do you control the breeding of dogs? Penalties for failure to control are quite powerful already.

And Famine I'm sure my biology teacher mentioned that dogs couldn't actually lock their jaw. It was just a term used because of the pure strength they have. Information to back up here

 

[Famine]

Don't believe a word of it.

I've got a pit bull skull (really. Don't ask). It's not an "American Pit Bull", but it IS a breed of pit bull terrier. It locks.

 

[Swift]

Yeah, banning a type of dawg is just like banning a type of gun. It's a matter of responsibility for the owner. If the dog bites or attacks someone, the dog AND the owner should be punished. Not just the dog.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Don't believe a word of it.

I've got a pit bull skull (really. Don't ask). It's not an "American Pit Bull", but it IS a breed of pit bull terrier. It locks.

Everylink I've found supports that Pitbulls, and no other canine for that matter, can lock their jaw. However, many of these do refer to one scientists studies as a basis.

Why should I doubt the internet because some stranger on a forum says so

 

[Famine]

Yeah, banning a type of dawg is just like banning a type of gun. It's a matter of responsibility for the owner. If the dog bites or attacks someone, the dog AND the owner should be punished. Not just the dog.

Can a gun suddenly decide, of its own volition, to shoot a cat?

 

[Swift]

Can a gun suddenly decide, of its own volition, to shoot a cat?

Well, depending on what kind of gun it is...

I get your point. But again, dogs are considered property of the owner. So the owner should be held responsible.

 

[RacyBacy]

I just took my sisters' two toy poodles for a 4 mile walk round a local park. Apart from looking rampantly homosexual I was impressed that most dogs were on a leash. This included a 9 month old Rottweiler that sat down when told to by it's owner. A scary looking pitbull was another. The Alsation was quiet and on a leash too.

If the dogs are brought up correctly and have been trained well (and when in public are on a leash or muzzled) then I see no problem. However, owners have to be held accountable for whatever happens. There is a lot of responsibility when you own a dangerous breed of dog.

The deciding factor for me is what these bigger/tougher dogs have the capability of doing. They are animals and powerful ones at that. I would never want one for this reason alone. My toy poodles suit me just fine.

This one looks friendly enough:

More pics here:

 

[Hell Raiser]

It all falls on the shoulder's of the dog's owner.They should train the dog the proper way or send them somewhere where they can be trained.I have a Doberman,and i love my dog,I've got him trained ,and still take all the precautions,to make sure that he is under control.

 

[TheCracker]

As a dog owner i too feel that its too easy just for people to say 'ban all.........(insert breed here)' - On the other hand dogs like PitBulls (supposeidly banned in the UK) English Bulls, Stafordshire Bulls etc have all been bred for one reason only - fighting. In this day and age there is just no reason to own a dog like that - other dogs can protect your family and property just as well. They've become status symbols for the type of person who doesn't really care if their dog attacks another dog or much worse - a child.

How may times do you here about a child being savaged by a dog other than one thats been breed for fighting? I'm not saying that other dogs don't, but i bet in 90% of cases they are a 'bull' breed or the like. Studies have shown that dog breed for for fighting have a tendancy to just 'snap' and become lethal even though they might have been the most placid family pet up until that point. How many of the cases that you read about where the owner has said "He/she's always been such a good natured dog, we even let our young children play with it and its never even looked like getting angry".... or statements to that effect? - i bet its quite alot.

I personally have an interest in this thread since one of my own dogs (the actual 'Cracker' as a matter of fact) was attacked a couple of months ago by a 'supposed' banned Pitbull in a local park about 50 yards away from a kids playground, when it started circling and growling at my wife. My dog - a fox terrier, a breed known to be fearless, came to defend her and was started on. In no time at all the pitbull had my dog on his back, screeming as well he could with the pitbulls teeth embeded in his throat. It was only the distraction of a passer by that it released my dog other wise there was no way my dog would have survived - I'm just glad it wasn't a kid that this dog found first.

Many dog trainers will tell you that even a well trained 'fighting' dog can never be fully trusted to never just 'turn' with little or no provication.

 

[DLRgian]

im a proud owner of a 72lb 7 month old rottweiler..i get many remarks thrown at me..ya my pup might be a lil wild but thats becuz shes only 7 months..i am taking her to Obedience school next month..i got signs all over my house sayin "beware of dog"..n soon i will buy a muzzle becuz some ppl can be funny cuz if a dog scratches them or barks at them right away they call dog attack..but see there is always 2 sides to the story on y the person got attacked..funny that doesnt come out..but a few days ago near where i live in toronto ontario canada when a pitbull attacked a guy becuz he didnt knock on the door..he jus walked in the house..n the dog doin its guard dog duty attacked him..ya ok pits maybe a lil crazy but u gotta look at it in both perspectives..jus my opinion cuz im an owner of a dog..

 

[dbartucci]

After a spate of maulings involving pit bills (and pit bull mixes) in Toronto, the provincial government grandfathered in a law http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/news/2004/20041026-pitbulls-nr.asp to ban the breed.

People can claim that you can train these dogs and they make good loyal pets, but the facts, at least in this province show that this breed is so much more likely to be involved in an attack, even given the relatively small number of animals, and the attack is usually more vicious. I think the law was necessary, too many people were being attacked by this breed for the government to not act, I don't believe that this law will lead to the banning other breeds, unless those breeds show that they have a high propensity to attack, and that just hasn't been the case, at least in Ontario.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Raising a Dog is like raising a kid: If it's being abused in any way in it's youth, it will be violent in it's Adult years. Dog's are animals, but they have to be raised the way as a baby.

 

[keram]

You should have to earn a lisence to own those dogs by proving you are a trustworthy and responsible adult. They should not be banned entirely.

 

[Carl.]

Pfffft, pit bulls are for wussies...

We have bigger threats than that walking in Montreal downtown.

I'd love to see a pit bull getting mad at this.

 

[Klostrophobic]

So, what happens with all current pitbulls? Are they destroyed?

 

[ExigeEvan]

Nuetred and given to live out the last of their lives. Or removed to another state.

 

[Klostrophobic]

Yeah, move them to Texas, that'll solve the problem!

Pitbulls are nothing, anyway. My cousin has a Newfoundland that weighs in at about 130 pounds and he isn't even a year old.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Yeah but is he viscous?

You sually find the larger dogs are even softer because they were bred to retrieve or even herd than fight. I'm not sure on the temprament of Irish Wolf hounds though. And they are tall!!

 

[Klostrophobic]

He can be, but now that they snipped off his balls and threw them away, notsomuch.

 

[ledhed]

I have a female pit . It lives with 4 cats . its one of the most harmless dogs I have owned . The proposed law is being put forth by a bunch of ignorant twits that should have been neutered at birth . F%$#@*'n buch of *&^%$ moron Bastardations ...Dogs bite ,,, DUHHHHHHH ...Rots...German Sheperds ...Dobermans....friggin HUSKIES....Akitas...Some breeds of POODLES for *&^%$# sake have been used as attack dogs or have been fought in pits...Ohhhh scary pit bull....The dog acts as it has been trained or fails to act as it has been mishandled . What we need are more moronic laws to guide morons...*&^%%$ fkn*&^%$vb holes.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I have a female pit . It lives with 4 cats . its one of the most harmless dogs I have owned . The proposed law is being put forth by a bunch of ignorant twits that should have been neutered at birth . F%$#@*'n buch of *&^%$ moron Bastardations ...Dogs bite ,,, DUHHHHHHH ...Rots...German Sheperds ...Dobermans....friggin HUSKIES....Akitas...Some breeds of POODLES for *&^%$# sake have been used as attack dogs or have been fought in pits...Ohhhh scary pit bull....The dog acts as it has been trained or fails to act as it has been mishandled . What we need are more moronic laws to guide morons...*&^%%$ fkn*&^%$vb holes.

If it wasn't you I'd say you sound liek one of them 'morons' because of all the swearing.

Huskies should be kept in room without ANY furnishings or wood. I've heard of them pawing through a a wooden door before.

 

[Carl.]

Huskies should be kept in room without ANY furnishings or wood. I've heard of them pawing through a a wooden door before.

Husky tip #2: never tie an husky to his dog house, unless it's fixed to a concrete basement. a friend of mine had to go get the dog with the dog house on the 2nd neighbor's yard.

 

[Blackbird.]

The only thing that makes a dog vicious is the way the owner trains the dog to be from a puppy. That's my 2 cents simply.

 

[ledhed]

Ahhh the heat fried my brains...been out in the sun all day dealing with the " public " so my level of moronic tolerance has been all but used up...I thought the swearing would convey the distaste that I feel for the idiots in charge who think that they are doing the public a servive with their stupidity. I cant actually jump up and down and scream at the top of my lungs while pulling my hair out on the forums ...and type at the same time...not that I have not tried at times..

 

[Famine]

The only thing that makes a dog vicious is the way the owner trains the dog to be. That's my 2 cents simply.

Out of interest, can you train a bear or a lion to be not-vicious?

 

[Blackbird.]

Is a bear or a lion a dog, Famine?