Ban on the pit bull terrier
- Thread starter ///M-Spec
- 58 comments
- 1,427 views
- 1,926
Ledhed, I'm afraid you screwed yourself over with that right there....
- 87,652
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Blackbird
ledhedless maybe ..but thet are bears and lions ...how do you expect them to act ?
You see, that's the thing.
We have a blind spot with our pets. They're pets, right? We say, they do. They're cute and they're cuddly.
But they're also animals - some might say primarily so. You can easily train a bear or a lion to be "tame". Cheetahs are easier to train than dogs, as it happens. But if you piss them off, even if you don't know about it they will react like any other animal. Animals have three and a half responses they turn to:
Run
Fight
Hump
(Rock)
Now this applies to ALL animals - even humans (although we think we're special because we think we're special). Any animal will choose one of the first two if threatened - and it's immediately apparent that a "tame" lion or bear will kill you if it fights. It's less apparent that a "tame" dog - or cat, or hamster - can also attack you for a stimulus you simply aren't aware that you are providing - but they can and they do.
If it's a Yorkshire Terrier, you laugh and brush it off. Maybe it'll nip you, maybe not. If it's an Akita, you're in for a whole world of hurt.
Animals are animals, pets or not. If you annoy them they can and will attack you, regardless of their species. It is simply in error to say that a dog is only vicious because of the way its owner treats it - a dog is only vicious because it is an animal which feels threatened. The way the owner treats it may or may not exacerbate that - although it gives you a warm, cuddly feeling to believe that, as a kindly dog owner who is always nice, your pet will never attack a child.
Famine likes dogs a lot. When he has time for one, he will be getting one.
- 19,707
- Alabamamania
Pit Bull terriers are illegal in Miami-Dade county. I've read that a few breeds of dog are indeed illegal in the surrounding areas of Baltimore, Maryland, too. Apparently, some poor, unwise trash decide to treat certain types of dogs (Rotweilers, Pit Bulls, et al) poorly, and so they can become vicious animals that can kill. Needlessly frightening, always putting it in fear, fighting it or teasing an animal repeatedly will make it something less than a nice doggie.
On the other hand, Pit Bull terriers and Rotties can be taught to be sweet animals (I have one), mine won't harm a fly. He loves people, and loves to play. He's never bit anyone, plays with kids and adults. Heck, he won't even bite into his food, he just inhales it!
So instead of dealing with things on a case-by-case basis, it's always easier to slap a label on the item, and just ban it completely. I think the people who treat dogs like the first example are the ones who should be put down.
On the other hand, Pit Bull terriers and Rotties can be taught to be sweet animals (I have one), mine won't harm a fly. He loves people, and loves to play. He's never bit anyone, plays with kids and adults. Heck, he won't even bite into his food, he just inhales it!
So instead of dealing with things on a case-by-case basis, it's always easier to slap a label on the item, and just ban it completely. I think the people who treat dogs like the first example are the ones who should be put down.
- 2,093
Pit Bulls are illegal here too. Now I know someone with a Pit Bull, and its a sweet, gentle tempered animal. But they were outlawed here because even the sweet gentle tempered one can temporarily lose his temper. And therein lies the problem. When a Rottweiler loses his temper and bites someone, it can generally be called off by its owner. There is damage done, but in this way it can often be limited. I know this first hand by the way, and have a scar to prove it.
However, when a Pit Bull bites, you quite often literally have to saw him loose. Not a good thing. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest bit what scientists have to say about this, because very simply it has happened a few times here and from then on they were banned, rightly so.
Incidentally, by far the majority of biting incidents [EDIT: in the Netherlands that is] involve ... can you guess?
Yes, that vicious dog called the Golden Retriever.
However, when a Pit Bull bites, you quite often literally have to saw him loose. Not a good thing. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest bit what scientists have to say about this, because very simply it has happened a few times here and from then on they were banned, rightly so.
Incidentally, by far the majority of biting incidents [EDIT: in the Netherlands that is] involve ... can you guess?
Yes, that vicious dog called the Golden Retriever.
- 24,019
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Heres an interesting little article for you:
In the U.S., Pit Bull fanciers scowl on the supposed exaggeration aimed at degrading their dogs. While it's true that in a U.S. survey, German Shepherds lead the list in number of attributed dog bites, the more important figure, 60 to 70 percent of dog bite fatalities, are from Pit Bulls, a dog that accounts for only 1 percent of the U.S. dog population.
Reason: When the Pit Bull attacks, it does not merely bite. Powered by clamp-like jaws, it sinks its fangs deep into its unfortunate victims and tears them apart.
"The injuries these dogs inflict are more serious than other breeds because they go for deep musculature and don't release; they hold and shake," says Sheryl Blair of the Tufts Veterinary School in North Grafton, Massachusetts.
Furthermore, while most breeds do not multiple bite, "a pit bull attack is like a shark attack: he keeps coming back," says Kurt Lapham, a field investigator for the West Coast Regional Office of the Humane Society.
Just wait for them to brag about their Pit Bull's dog-guarding capabilities. Ironically, for all its ferocity and biting power, Pit Bulls don't make good guard dogs. They don't have the intelligence and guarding instincts of a German Shepherd, Malinois or Labrador, neither do they have the "knocking power" of Rottweillers or Bullmastiffs (to stop escaping thieves off in their tracks before executing a bite). And yes, it's self-defeating to let a Pit Bull roam around the yard. It exposes family members to the dangers of Pit Bulls themselves.
In the U.S., Pit Bull fanciers scowl on the supposed exaggeration aimed at degrading their dogs. While it's true that in a U.S. survey, German Shepherds lead the list in number of attributed dog bites, the more important figure, 60 to 70 percent of dog bite fatalities, are from Pit Bulls, a dog that accounts for only 1 percent of the U.S. dog population.
Reason: When the Pit Bull attacks, it does not merely bite. Powered by clamp-like jaws, it sinks its fangs deep into its unfortunate victims and tears them apart.
"The injuries these dogs inflict are more serious than other breeds because they go for deep musculature and don't release; they hold and shake," says Sheryl Blair of the Tufts Veterinary School in North Grafton, Massachusetts.
Furthermore, while most breeds do not multiple bite, "a pit bull attack is like a shark attack: he keeps coming back," says Kurt Lapham, a field investigator for the West Coast Regional Office of the Humane Society.
Just wait for them to brag about their Pit Bull's dog-guarding capabilities. Ironically, for all its ferocity and biting power, Pit Bulls don't make good guard dogs. They don't have the intelligence and guarding instincts of a German Shepherd, Malinois or Labrador, neither do they have the "knocking power" of Rottweillers or Bullmastiffs (to stop escaping thieves off in their tracks before executing a bite). And yes, it's self-defeating to let a Pit Bull roam around the yard. It exposes family members to the dangers of Pit Bulls themselves.
- 3,425
TheCracker
To respond to this Bull .........
Developed from the Bull and Terrier types of yesteryear, the American Pit Bull Terrier comes from an indisputable history of pit-fighting. The breed's tenacity and accompanying strength are unmatched in the canine world. As rich and captivating as the breed's history is, the Pit Bull's future is more worthy of commentary. Some proponents of the breed argue that this breed is the original bulldog of the past. Old prints and woodcarvings show reason to believe this. They show dogs that look exactly like the breed today, doing things the dog is still capable of doing. For more information on this theory you can read books by Richard F Stratton. The APBT, as registered by the UKC, is an individual breed of dog and does not refer to just any ill-bred, mindless warrior-type mongrel. At one time, the Pit Bull was a much loved, trustworthy companion. People who chose to train these dogs to fight are chiefly responsible for the banning and witch-hunting that has been sweeping the U.S. The media, however, should not go unmentioned, for it is also responsible for escalating isolated incidences in a relentless and attention-getting way. In a lot of cases when the media is reporting about a Pit Bull attacking, it is indeed not even a Pit Bull at all, but a mixed breed of some sort, or another bull breed all together. In fact, one time there was a report on KYW news in Philadelphia about two Pit Bulls attacking a person. I called the news station and asked if they knew the dogs were in fact a pure bred American Pit Bull Terriers, or another bull breed of some sort, or a mutt for that matter. They told me they did not know, I would have to call the police station to verify that information. I asked them how they could report something that they were not sure of. They had no answer for me and they were not sure of the dog's breed. Even after admitting that to me on the phone, they kept calling it a Pit Bull. The Pit Bull's future has been perhaps irreparably undone and everyone is to blame except the dog itself. This very loyal dog is too set on pleasing his owner, and ironically this is the root of his own undoing. Accompanying this need to please are remarkable abilities of all kinds. Jack Dempsy, Teddy Roosevelt and Jack Johnson are just a few people who have owned Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls excel in practically every canine task including herding, guarding, hunting, policing, cart pulling and ratting. A Pit Bull, named Banddog Dread, holds more canine working titles than ANY other breed. The owner's name is Diane Jessup and you can reference her book, "The Working Pit Bull." It tells you all of Dread's accomplishments. These dogs are truly capable of many tasks.
the mere quality and characteristics of the APBT have evoked more human emotional, rational, and irrational response than any other breed that exists today. By no means are these dogs people-haters or people-eaters. Their natural aggressive tendencies are toward other dogs and animals, not people. However if they are properly socialized they will not even be aggressive with them. These are truly quality companions for quality owners only! The American Pit Bull Terrier is a good-natured, amusing, extremely loyal and affectionate family pet, which is good with children and adults. Almost always obedient, it is always eager to please its master. It is an extremely courageous and intelligent guard dog that is very full of vitality. Highly protective of his owners and the owner's property, it will fight an enemy to the death. It is usually very friendly, but has an uncanny ability to know when it needs to protect and when everything is okay. The American Pit Bull Terrier can be willful and needs a firm hand. They are generally okay with other pets if they are raised with them from puppy hood. For the most part they are very friendly, but not recommended for most people. Excellent with children in the family, they have a high pain tolerance and will happily put up with rough child play. As with any breed, they should not be left alone with unfamiliar children. Originally used as fighting dogs, the powerful American Pit Bull may go for the throat of strange dogs. A minimum of training will produce a tranquil, obedient dog. Socialize very thoroughly when young to combat aggressive tendencies and be sure to keep the dog under control when other dogs are present. It has given outstanding results as a guardian of property, but is at the same time esteemed as a companion dog. When properly trained and socialized, this is a very good dog and a great family companion. Unfortunately, some choose to promote the fighting instinct in the breed, giving it a bad name.
http://www.pethelp.net/pits.html
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm
- 24,019
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Whatever.
Text written by pit bull owners is always going to be biased isn't it.
I've got a pet Great White Shark, he's great with kids and makes a perfect guard-shark. He has a high intolerance to pain and doesn't mind the kids pulling his fins. Great Whites get bad press for being vicious, but its not usually the pure breds, its more likely to be Great White/ Tiger sharks crosses or some other kind of shark. These Sharks are truly capable of many tasks, only the other day Fido fetched me the newspaper (unfortunatly it was still attached to the paperboys arm)
So basically its a cross between a large powerful breed and a small highly agressive and intollerant breed - sounds like a great combination to me!
Text written by pit bull owners is always going to be biased isn't it.
I've got a pet Great White Shark, he's great with kids and makes a perfect guard-shark. He has a high intolerance to pain and doesn't mind the kids pulling his fins. Great Whites get bad press for being vicious, but its not usually the pure breds, its more likely to be Great White/ Tiger sharks crosses or some other kind of shark. These Sharks are truly capable of many tasks, only the other day Fido fetched me the newspaper (unfortunatly it was still attached to the paperboys arm)
So basically its a cross between a large powerful breed and a small highly agressive and intollerant breed - sounds like a great combination to me!
- 1,727
Unfortunately with these breeds a few bad one must ruin it for everyone. A spate of attacks by American Staffordshire Terrieirs, other pit bulls, or mixes of those breeds is reported in the media and the public becomes afraid of pit pulls, forcing the hand of the government to respond to public outcry and ban the breed.
I think the kind of people attracked to the breed is part of the problem. Many people get pit bulls because they want to look threatening, or intimidating because they others know of it's reputation as a fighting dog and have heard of attacks by other pit bulls. I think a lot of these owners don't socialize their dogs properly and encourage aggressive behaviour.
Also, if you read the stories on the attacks, especially on children, it's always the pit bull attacks someone else's kids who are in the yard, or someone else's dog in the park, or someone else on the street, almost never the owner, owners' family, or owners' other pets, this could be because those attacks go unreported because the owner doesn't want to euthanize the dog, but I suspect it has more to do with the aggressiveness that owner wanted and encouraged in the dog.
The breed, like almost every breed is gentle around family, and good with kids if raised together. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are gentle in public. Try to find me an article about an attack where the owner doesn't say "They were gentle and wouldn't hurt a fly." Meanwhile a kid will need several plastic surguries to recover from a viscious mauling.
I think the kind of people attracked to the breed is part of the problem. Many people get pit bulls because they want to look threatening, or intimidating because they others know of it's reputation as a fighting dog and have heard of attacks by other pit bulls. I think a lot of these owners don't socialize their dogs properly and encourage aggressive behaviour.
Also, if you read the stories on the attacks, especially on children, it's always the pit bull attacks someone else's kids who are in the yard, or someone else's dog in the park, or someone else on the street, almost never the owner, owners' family, or owners' other pets, this could be because those attacks go unreported because the owner doesn't want to euthanize the dog, but I suspect it has more to do with the aggressiveness that owner wanted and encouraged in the dog.
The breed, like almost every breed is gentle around family, and good with kids if raised together. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are gentle in public. Try to find me an article about an attack where the owner doesn't say "They were gentle and wouldn't hurt a fly." Meanwhile a kid will need several plastic surguries to recover from a viscious mauling.
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Klostrophobic
Whoa. Klos is back. Look out.
ledhed
If your pit is the most harmless dog you've ever owned, why did you get one? Why didn't you opt for a harmless dog without a reputation for maiming and killing people if "harmless" is what you wanted?
EDIT: Here's another report which adds a little fuel to the fire.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/24/dog.mauling.ap/index.html
Is the mother getting what she deserves? Or is she a victim of an overzealous prosecutor?
M
- 3,425
///M-SpecWhoa. Klos is back. Look out.
If your pit is the most harmless dog you've ever owned, why did you get one? Why didn't you opt for a harmless dog without a reputation for maiming and killing people if "harmless" is what you wanted?
EDIT: Here's another report which adds a little fuel to the fire.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/24/dog.mauling.ap/index.html
Is the mother getting what she deserves? Or is she a victim of an overzealous prosecutor?
M
Why do you think I WANTED a harmless dog ? What did I post that said I did ? I took the dog in because some asswipe abandonded it in a trash pile and my son found it . I did not examine its pedigree . I have owned dogs all my life they LIKE humans are all different AND like humans I judge them on merit. If the dog showed itself to be dangerouse to my family I would have killed it ...or just left it to the state to deal with . I do not judge an entire breed on hearsay or inuendo like a good friggin biggot / moron would. Rumors and tall tales will not convince me to judge a whole breed .
If I was worried about "reputation" I would never have owned a Rott or a German shepherd. Dogs that are well known as MAN KILLERS not dog killers.
BTW the links I gave ARE NOT only from pit bull clubs ...not that it means much...they are consistant with what ALL the breeders and dog dog owners guides say...If you do not believe it USE your friggin computer to google the friggin info on your own intsead of just repeating the bull you see ..or think you " know " .
PROVE them wrong ..dont just put out bull that they are pit owner clubs...etc. and more bull etc. you have friggin google use it .
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
ledhed
Hmm. "Friggin" 4 times, eh? Calm down dude, it wasn't a personal attack and there's no reason to fly off the damn handle. All I wanted to know was your motivation for owning one because it seem to me contradictory to the reason why most people choose a pit. You explained it and that's cool.
I made it clear in my first post I viewed the breed as not inherantly dangerous but has more potential of being dangerous if handled badly. Just like an 6,000 lb SUV is more dangerous than a bicycle if the same drunk gets behind the wheel of either.
Sheesh.
M
- 956
- doriPop
www.geocities.com/zeusmemorial
Rest in peace, buddy.
I used to have one, as you can tell. He NEVER EVER attacked a person. He was raised in a loving home and loved his family very much. He was great with kids.
Bulls are not MEANT to fight. Bulls are TRAINED to fight. By some of the most horrid excuses for people I can think of. Yes, as Famine pointed out, pit bulls are primal by nature. However, under the right conditions, they can be one of the most loving animals a person can know. Zeus was an absolute sweetheart, and never went out of line. He was shown nothing but love and attention, and never once opened his maws to a single person.
But hey. I'm no dog expert. What would I know?
Please watch this. I find the idea of a ban on pitbulls highly offensive, and more like pawning the blame off on the animal, not the owner.
Rest in peace, buddy.
I used to have one, as you can tell. He NEVER EVER attacked a person. He was raised in a loving home and loved his family very much. He was great with kids.
Bulls are not MEANT to fight. Bulls are TRAINED to fight. By some of the most horrid excuses for people I can think of. Yes, as Famine pointed out, pit bulls are primal by nature. However, under the right conditions, they can be one of the most loving animals a person can know. Zeus was an absolute sweetheart, and never went out of line. He was shown nothing but love and attention, and never once opened his maws to a single person.
But hey. I'm no dog expert. What would I know?
Please watch this. I find the idea of a ban on pitbulls highly offensive, and more like pawning the blame off on the animal, not the owner.
- 956
- doriPop
Here's the kicker: Ours was an abused junkyard puppy. He was left outside in all sorts of weather and rarely fed for the first 8 or so months of his life. It's amazing he survived. We took him in to save him. I dunno about other pitbull owners. Some do it for the "macho factor", I guess.
- 3,425
German shepherds are some of the most vicious dogs ever bred ( and they also happen to be my favorite breed of dog) . so how do you think you are making any sense ? All dogs can be vicious you still do not get it do you ? its up up the owner more or less how the dog turns out . In very rare instances you just get a naturaly vicious dog ..thats not the one you keep to sit around the fire with you and the family . Dogs are animals they revert to instinct when stressed...they bite . They can be trained to attack on command and tear the nuts off a man or attack horses or other dogs ..they can be trained to herd sheep and other animals and to pull sleds..A dog is as safe as the person who owns it has taught it to be no matter what breed it is . Once you get to know an animal you learn to respect your limits with it and what you will expose it to .code_kev
Getting upset about a dog biting something is like getting upset about a bee stinging something or a goat giving you a head butt in the ass . They are animals thats what they do ..they act like ...ANIMALS ..duhhh ..
- 19,311
- Inland Empire SoCal
- SOLID_LIFTERS
I'm sorry, but German Shepards, Pit Bulls and Rottweilers are no longer a "safe" breed of dog anymore. I see a family that owns one and think instantly they want to be seen as a "tough person." It's a shame too, because I love dogs and once owned a Rottweiler. They are very strong, even-tempered, smart-minded dogs and are very loyal and protective. The perfect family dog, if it weren't for the idiots who over bred them to the state they are now. True, poodles can be such nastly little turds and bite often, but I don't see them running down children and killing them.
The proposal of laws is not going to ban the breeds listed, just limit them. That's what I read. It didn't state exactly how, but it repeated it would not ban the dogs from the city. Oh, I read it was Oakland CA, not Oklahoma, unless it happened there recently also.
Just a reminder of how awesome dogs are. Let's see a stupid cat do that.
http://207.218.248.20/smartestdog.shtml
http://207.218.248.20/talkingdogs.shtml
The proposal of laws is not going to ban the breeds listed, just limit them. That's what I read. It didn't state exactly how, but it repeated it would not ban the dogs from the city. Oh, I read it was Oakland CA, not Oklahoma, unless it happened there recently also.
Just a reminder of how awesome dogs are. Let's see a stupid cat do that.
http://207.218.248.20/smartestdog.shtml
http://207.218.248.20/talkingdogs.shtml
- 2,093
///M-SpecWhoa. Klos is back. Look out.
If your pit is the most harmless dog you've ever owned, why did you get one? Why didn't you opt for a harmless dog without a reputation for maiming and killing people if "harmless" is what you wanted?
EDIT: Here's another report which adds a little fuel to the fire.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/24/dog.mauling.ap/index.html
Is the mother getting what she deserves? Or is she a victim of an overzealous prosecutor?
M
Well, for me this story confirms that it's better to own pets that, if things get out of hand, are still manageable. The ban on such dogs does not come out of thin air.
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/06/12/fataldog.mauling.ap/index.html
- 24,019
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
As an owner of two dogs, i certainly would'nt say that all pit bulls should be put down, i just think the breeding of them should be stopped, nobody loses out this way.
- 3,425
So Arwin why are Akida's , German Shepherds , Dobermans and Rottweillers not banned ?
And why do you lend so much credence to that particular story ?
This could have happenend with any dog . Dogs just happen to be ....well...DOGS and act accordingly ...especially when you put a pair or more toghether AND especially when *****es are involved...AND EVEN MORE so when the ***** is in heat . It should have been two Rottweilers...they would have had to find all the parts.
So the person who owns the dogs act wrongly ..YOUR response is to ban the dogs !
And why do you lend so much credence to that particular story ?
This could have happenend with any dog . Dogs just happen to be ....well...DOGS and act accordingly ...especially when you put a pair or more toghether AND especially when *****es are involved...AND EVEN MORE so when the ***** is in heat . It should have been two Rottweilers...they would have had to find all the parts.
So the person who owns the dogs act wrongly ..YOUR response is to ban the dogs !
- 24,019
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Its just like the gun arguement - countries with a ban on civilians owning guns don't have a major problem with people getting shot. Gun owners whine on and on about "not every gun owner is going to go mad and shot people" and i'm sure truer words have never been spoken - but it doesn't change the fact that countries who have no ban on firearms have a much higher mortality and injury rate than countries who do.
People don't need to own guns - just as people don't need to own 'dangerous' dogs.
People don't need to own guns - just as people don't need to own 'dangerous' dogs.
- 24,019
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Although, as you can see from my posts, i'm no fan of the Pitbull - or any 'bull' breeds for that matter. The stories of 'locking jaws' on these dogs are a bit wide-of-the-mark. These dogs, and others, have extreamely powerful jaws for their size - do powerful, its almost impossible to disengage their bite if they don't want to let go.
I know there's a lot of 'witchhunting' for these breeds - but you've got to ask why?
Here are some figures for you:
67% of dog bite fatalities are children between the ages of 0-9 years old.
37% of dog bite fatalities are credited to purebred Pitbulls (this figure doesn't include deaths by crossbreeds, PitBull crossbreeds bring the figure upto 42%)
The next highest amount was 9% from German Sheperds
The proportion of deaths attributable to pit bulls increased from 20% in 79-80' to 62% in 87-88'
I know there's a lot of 'witchhunting' for these breeds - but you've got to ask why?
Here are some figures for you:
67% of dog bite fatalities are children between the ages of 0-9 years old.
37% of dog bite fatalities are credited to purebred Pitbulls (this figure doesn't include deaths by crossbreeds, PitBull crossbreeds bring the figure upto 42%)
The next highest amount was 9% from German Sheperds
The proportion of deaths attributable to pit bulls increased from 20% in 79-80' to 62% in 87-88'
Similar threads
