Beater or Sleeper? COTW Forza 7 Week:END The Ultimate Sleeper, The Holden Sandman! Thanks Everyone!!

[VICGT1970]

 

[Vic Reign93]

So another week down, another set of leader boards going up.

GT-S:

@VICGT1970 1:41.979
@Vic Reign93 1:42.336
@Nacho Libre 1:47.579
@Vyper 316 1:55.489*

And only me and VICGT on the Forza Edition GT-S leaderboard.

@VICGT1970 1:37.280
@Vic Reign93 1:37.389

Now that we’ve poured one out for GT6 Online, let’s see what’s next.

Congratulations @Rinsky!!!

I’m cashing in that other pick you had in mind awhile back, the only V8 one as well.

The car in question?

Is the 1978 Ford Mustang II King Cobra!!!

Ah the Mustang II, the black sheep of the Mustang linage IMO.

Built on the same platform as the Pinto, the Mustang II could be equipped with a 2.3 Lima I4 engine, a 2.8 Cologne V6 or a 4.9 Windsor V8, The King Cobra version introduced in 78’ could only have the V8 option.

Thanks to a change on how horsepower was rated going from Gross power rating to Net power rating among other things like stricter emission requirements, The 4.9 V8 was only making 139hp and 250ft-lbs of torque when all was said and done, mercifully the downsizing also meant the car only weighed 2,669lbs.

With 58% of the weight at the front, understeer could well be a constant companion in this weeks TT, taking place at the Short Circuit Reverse layout at Maple Valley Raceway.

A short lap means more attempts to improve, but also means any small mistake can’t be made up for quickly enough, but I’m pretty sure you guys will be fine.

Let’s get a good turnout for this one. 👍

 

[Vyper 316]

This car is one of my favorites of all time because it's a Shelby Cobra for God sakes!! And don't forget it's a one of a kind pretty much (the Mustang 2 series was only made from 1974-1978) Before I ever even went on the track with this car I already knew it was going to be a really fun challenge to try and get a good time like this. So obviously this car is a sleeper for me. The torque felt a little weird at first but eventually I was able to manage with it and get this time . Can't wait to see everyone else's times, they're probably all better than mine . Lol

 

[Rinsky]

This car is one of my favorites of all time because it's a Shelby Cobra for God sakes!!

I would love to get my hands on one in real life.

 

[Vic Reign93]

So the King Cobra, Bold name for a car with a emissions strangled 4.9 V8 making 139hp.

Handling was floaty, one tyre fires were easily recreated due to no limited slip differential, sounded nice mind you.

Stock form, i’m gonna be generous and give it a Neutral verdict, but it’s lightish platform has great tuning potential for low class racing or drag racing. 👍

Verdict: Neutral

 

[Nacho Libre]

Hahaha! So nice to land in the middle of all those Novas. It has good grip, does not oversteer, and has a nice rumble! The color selection is terrible of course, but in the end I like it. Sleeper!​

 

[Vic Reign93]

And here’s your weekly 24hrs left reminder to post your best/improved lap times before midnight in the U.K.

 

[VICGT1970]

 

[Drex124]

(0:53.291)

Uuuuuuuggggghhhhhh.....

This was one of the cars on my short list for "first car to get a beater rating from Vic R", yet somehow it even disappointed there. With an engine that protests all the way up the rev range, and sluggish, wobbly handling I can not recommend staying far enough away from it.

Verdict: Beater.

 

[Vic Reign93]

Well I always try and look at the positives, some cars do have potential, even if the stock version turns out to be weapons grade terrible.

Of course I’ve got my limits too.

Anyways to score the scores..

@Drex124 0:53.291
@Vic Reign93 0:53.741
@VICGT1970 0:53.999
@Nacho Libre 0:55.829
@Vyper 316 0:57.281*

Drex with the near half second lead and VICGT just scraping into the 53’s.

Also Vyper do you run friction assist by any chance? I only ask because your laps are flagged as dirty and it’s why I’ve been putting asterisks on your times.

Congratulations Porsche!!!

Rather than just let the Le Mans winning 919 LMP1 sit back and relax in the Porsche museum, You decided to take it on a farewell world tour and also let it really cut loose from regulations that held it back.
(Also the 2 Porsche’s coming later this week might have influenced this pick but shhh. )

You’ve all probably heard by now of the 919 Evo taking the overall lap record at Spa away from F1 with a 1:41.770, but it’s not the first time that they decided to cut loose and do something that was both crazy in theory and executed brilliantly in practice.

The car they used?

The 1987 Porsche 959!!!

Porsche’s technical showcase machine of the 80’s that had its sights on Group B rallying ( It was originally called the Gruppe B.), but also took the title for fastest production car in the world at 197mph. 👍

Supposedly there was also a factory option to take the power up to 530hp, but there was also the run of 29 959S’s that had 515hp and top speeds reportedly over 210mph.

That by itself would be good enough for some, but Porsche isn’t some as they took 3 911s, converted them to 959 specs and took them rallying, just not Group B rallying.

Even though it was originally called the Gruppe B, it was never seriously considered for a full Group B season as the cost involved wouldn’t be offset by the technical info they could’ve got from it.

So instead of moaning about the what ifs, they took the cars to, of all of the rally events, the Paris Dakar Rally, yes THAT one.

1985 was a fail with all 3 cars failing to finish, but 1986 they took a 1-2 finish, also that year at Le Mans the racing version called the 961 took first in its class and 7th overall.

So to recap, fastest production car in the world at the time, won its class at the most gruelling endurance race and getting a 1-2 result in its second outing with the 959’s at the most gruelling rally event of the time.

Not a bad track record wouldn’t you agree?

With a twin turbo 2.8 Flat 6 making 450hp sending power to all 4 wheels via a 6 speed manual, this 3,190lbs icon will be getting breezy in the Bernese Alps on the Stadtplatz Circuit layout this week.

Have fun up in those mountains people 👍

 

[Vyper 316]

Well I always try and look at the positives, some cars do have potential, even if the stock version turns out to be weapons grade terrible.

Of course I’ve got my limits too.

Anyways to score the scores..

@Drex124 0:53.291
@Vic Reign93 0:53.741
@VICGT1970 0:53.999
@Nacho Libre 0:55.829
@Vyper 316 0:57.281*

Drex with the near half second lead and VICGT just scraping into the 53’s.

Also Vyper do you run friction assist by any chance? I only ask because your laps are flagged as dirty and it’s why I’ve been putting asterisks on your times.

Congratulations Porsche!!!

Rather than just let the Le Mans winning 919 LMP1 sit back and relax in the Porsche museum, You decided to take it on a farewell world tour and also let it really cut loose from regulations that held it back.
(Also the 2 Porsche’s coming later this week might have influenced this pick but shhh. )

You’ve all probably heard by now of the 919 Evo taking the overall lap record at Spa away from F1 with a 1:41.770, but it’s not the first time that they decided to cut loose and do something that was both crazy in theory and executed brilliantly in practice.

The car they used?

View attachment 729146
The 1987 Porsche 959!!!

Porsche’s technical showcase machine of the 80’s that had its sights on Group B rallying ( It was originally called the Gruppe B.), but also took the title for fastest production car in the world at 197mph. 👍

Supposedly there was also a factory option to take the power up to 530hp, but there was also the run of 29 959S’s that had 515hp and top speeds reportedly over 210mph.

That by itself would be good enough for some, but Porsche isn’t some as they took 3 911s, converted them to 959 specs and took them rallying, just not Group B rallying.

Even though it was originally called the Gruppe B, it was never seriously considered for a full Group B season as the cost involved wouldn’t be offset by the technical info they could’ve got from it.

So instead of moaning about the what ifs, they took the cars to, of all of the rally events, the Paris Dakar Rally, yes THAT one.

1985 was a fail with all 3 cars failing to finish, but 1986 they took a 1-2 finish, also that year at Le Mans the racing version called the 961 took first in its class and 7th overall.

So to recap, fastest production car in the world at the time, won its class at the most gruelling endurance race and getting a 1-2 result in its second outing with the 959’s at the most gruelling rally event of the time.

Not a bad track record wouldn’t you agree?

With a twin turbo 2.8 Flat 6 making 450hp sending power to all 4 wheels via a 6 speed manual, this 3,190lbs icon will be getting breezy in the Bernese Alps on the Stadtplatz Circuit layout this week.

Have fun up in those mountains people 👍

I don't know at the moment. I will find out sometime this weekend when I get home from my dad's house.(@Infineon )

 

[Nacho Libre]

My first impression is that the 959 feels better in stock form than homologated! At this point the Bernese Alps would benefit from having rain/night settings because it really has not changed much since FM4 except some daylight variations, and now feels stale.

 

[Vic Reign93]

So Porsche’s 80’s technical showcase, Felt quite good going through the Alps with all 450hp being used to its fullest.

Obviously there was understeer as it’s both rear engined and all wheel drive(The 959 actually convinced Porsche’s executives to make all 911 Turbo’s all wheel drive from then on in.) But doesn’t detract from the experience.

In summary, it lives up to its reputation it made back in the 80’s. 👍

If Turn 10 decides on a rallycross expansion (We do have rallycross cars and trophy trucks after all. ) I might turn it into the Group B car it could’ve been.

Verdict: Neutral (But pick one up anyway.)

 

[DG_Silva]

Just couldn't get all my fastest sectors together...

 

[Vic Reign93]

Here’s your less than 24hrs left reminder to post your times for the 959.

Btw, I extended an invite to a few of the guys from Causal Racing Mondays on Discord and I’ll update and include any times they post, Some of these guys are pretty brisk for the most part.

 

[pompeypigeon]

Here's my attempt for a good lap: a 1:33:577

Personally not a fan of AWD cars due to their understeer, but the Porsche makes up for this in it's speed, especially with its PI of 700.
I found that if you're a bit trigger happy with the accelerator, you will powerslide quite a bit. I did get used to getting it through the corners soon enough. Plus it is a good looking car!

Verdict: Neutral

 

[VICGT1970]

 

[Nacho Libre]

I have to say sleeper in stock form. I do have an homologated RWD conversion that is more fun than the regular!

 

[Vic Reign93]

So with the times all set, here’s where they stack up.

@Vic Reign93 1:33.111
@pompeypigeon 1:33.577
@DG_Silva 1:34.202
@VICGT1970 1:34.278
@Nacho Libre 1:37.763

So both pigeon and Silva take the last two podiums for this week, but great times all around. 👍

Congratulations @pompeypigeon!!!

As one of the CRM regulars who decided to join the party, I put it to you guys that the first one to post their time will get this weeks pick.

And you know what they say about early birds...

And the worm you picked for this week is an especially juicy one .(ok this metaphor is breaking down somewhat.)

You settled on....

The 1955 Mercedes Benz 300 SLR!!!

The car that dominated right from the start with a 1-2 win at the legendary Mille Miglia in the hands of Sir Sterling Moss and Juan Manuel Fangio.

Moss ended up setting the events average speed of just under 98mph over a near 1000 mile rally thanks to a co driver using an early form of pace notes. 👍

After many more dominant performances including a 1-2 at the Targa Florio, Mercedes won the 1955 World Sportscar Championship, but sadly all their accolades would be overshadowed by the 300SLR’s involvement in the darkest day in motorsports history.

I am of course talking about the 1955 Le Mans 24hrs.

I’m not going to go into detail on what happened or who says who was in the wrong, but all I will say is this.

The crash happened on the front straight and due to the lack of proper safety measures, among other things, 80-84 spectators including the unfortunate Pierre Levegh (who almost won the 1952 24hr race by himself until a final hour mechanical failure took him out.) lost their lives and anywhere from 120 to 178 injured although some accounts say more or less for both.

Mercedes pulled out of racing and didn’t properly return for over 3 decades and Switzerland banned motorsport and that ban is still mostly in effect to this day.

A dominant machine, but one that will always be remembered not for what it won, but for it’s involvement on that dark day in 1955.

The car itself was powered by a 3 litre Straight 8 which was taken from the F1 championship winning W196 and bored up to 3 litres from 2.5 and made 310hp.

The car was light too at 880kgs thanks to a lightweight space frame and Magnesium-alloy bodywork(the magnesium part of that does sadly play a part in the accident.) and the Le Mans version also had an air brake to offeset the Jaguar D type’s advantage of running disc brakes as supposed to the 300’s large drum brakes.

This weeks round will take place at the GP Circuit layout at Brands Hatch in the dry, drive hard friends, but remember those from that fateful day.

 

[Obelisk]

I am of course talking about the 1955 Le Mans 24hrs.

I’m not going to go into detail on what happened or who says who was in the wrong, but all I will say is this.

The crash happened on the front straight and due to the lack of proper safety measures, among other things, 80-84 spectators including the unfortunate Pierre Levegh (who almost won the 1952 24hr race by himself until a final hour mechanical failure took him out.) lost their lives and anyway from 120 to 178 injured although some accounts say more or less for both.

Can I also formally request, as someone who's seen it, that nobody even dare post video footage of the 1955 Le Mans Disaster?

It is incredibly AUP unfriendly and I will report it if it shows up here.

That aside,

The 1955 Mercedes Benz 300 SLR!!!

I had really good experiences with this in FM6/7.

 

[Populuxe]

Moss ended up setting the events average speed of just under 98mph over a near 1000 mile rally thanks to a co driver using an early form of pace notes. 👍

You say it so casually, but it was ground-breaking. No one used navigators then. Denis Jenkinson, a former racer himself and writer for Motor Sport in England, came up with the idea of using a roll of paper with notes for the entire 1000 miles written on it to allow Moss to go all out secure in the knowledge that the next crest did not turn into a 90° corner or that the next blind left opened up to a long straight. Jenks was an amazing writer, one of my all time favorites. This is probably more appropriate for a separate thread, but for me, he ranks up there with Beverly Rae Kimes, Dennis Adler, Ken Purdy, Henry N. Manney III, Paul Frère, David E. Davis, and Brock Yates. They all had a love for both writing and cars and could make you feel the excitement and joy of motoring.

 

[Obelisk]

Wrong car, Populuxe.

 

[Populuxe]

Wrong car, Populuxe.

I'm going to go sit in a corner and be stupid by myself.

Bring tacos.

 

[Vic Reign93]

Can I also formally request, as someone who's seen it, that nobody even dare post video footage of the 1955 Le Mans Disaster?

It is incredibly AUP unfriendly and I will report it if it shows up here.

That aside,

I had really good experiences with this in FM6/7.

It won’t show up here that I can assure you. 👍

I approached this whole deal with some care and trepidation to those lost and injured, I touched on the established facts like the track being woefully unsafe for the speeds these cars were capable of and again, staying away from the whole blame game of who was at fault.

I too saw the video, even the documentary on it as well and its just one of many reminders of how disturbingly fragile life can be.

As for the co drivers part @Populuxe Cowboy, casually said maybe, But I did recognise the importance of it in the grand scheme of things because not only was it radical for its time like you said, but the fact it was tested in a 1000 mile trial by fire and was successful. 👍

If it was good for that then it would be good, period.

 

[Populuxe]

Okay I'm done being stupid.

I don't have a lot to say about the 300SLR that hasn't already been said. It's a magnificent race car. It's hard to call one of the most renowned race cars in history a sleeper, but it's definitely not a beater, so here we are.

 

[Vic Reign93]

So the 300 SLR, Factoring out its infamous back story and focusing on it as a car, what’s it like to drive?

Very good, despite the vintage tyre and brake technology, it stops and handles remarkablely well thanks to its low weight of under 900kgs.

Acceleration is good as well and the sound.. well you can’t go wrong with a straight 8 at full tilt.

Also it’s funny that @Populuxe Cowboy mistakenly brought the normal 300 SL as 2 of the nine rolling chassis of the 300 SLR were set aside to be converted in to 300SL/SLR hybrids called the Uhlenhaut Coupe after the architect of the 300SLR racer and the hybrid 300SL’s Rudolf Uhlenhaut.

Pretty close to perfection without the suitcase sized silencer for the exhausts installed.

Sadly the project fell through after the Le Mans Disaster, but that didn’t deter Rudolf as he appropriated one of the leftover test mules and used it as his company car and there’s more.

There’s a alledged story that when running late for a meeting, Rudolf went up the Autobahn from Munich to Stuttgart, a 137 mile trip that would take 2.5 hours today and he did it in just over an hour.

The car had a quoted top speed of 180mph which meant it would’ve been the fastest street legal car of its time and as for the price?

Well put it like this, it’s priceless, Mercedes has turned down every single offer for one of the two SLR Coupe’s and I’m pretty sure some of those offers were pretty damn BIG.

And here’s the best part, It has made an appearance in a mainstream game in the last few years, It appeared in The Crew as DLC.

Woah that got off topic from the 300 SLR racer, but you look at the Coupe and think, can ya really blame me when it’s that good looking?

So the 300SLR, as classic racers go, I’m completely smitten with it.

Verdict: Sleeper 👍

 

[Vic Reign93]

Here’s your weekly 24hr reminder to get your times in.

 

[VICGT1970]

Sorry did not have time this week to get a time in.

Will be back at it next week.

 

[pompeypigeon]

My attempt at a good lap: 1:40:813

In game, it's a solid car with it's relatively powerful engine and lightweight body. The handling is as expected from an older racer but it is manageable after practice.
It's not without it's faults though. In some cases around BH, the front really wanted to lift, especially around and after Sheene curve. Whilst this can be fixed with better suspension, it did catch me out a few times.
Despite this, it's a car that I rarely see used, as tuned up properly it think it could contend for hopper podiums. I rate it a sleeper.

 

[Vic Reign93]

So the scores on the board are as follows..

@Vic Reign93 1:40.380
@pompeypigeon 1:40.813
@Populuxe Cowboy 1:46:512

Not the greatest turn out admittedly, but hey onwards and upwards.

Congratulations @Drex124!!!

Originally this was your first pick from last time, but due to it being at a track within the 4 week cooldown period, you decided on the Aston Martin Zagato.

Now the car you wanted to drive at this track was...

The 1998 Ferrari F333 SP!!!

I didn’t say which one specifically as they are mechanically and statistically identical so feel free to pick either the #12 Risi or the #30 MOMO for this one. 👍

The engine is a bigger and modified version of the same engine that powered Ferrari’s 1990 641 F1 racer, a V12 of now 4.0 litres of displacement and cranking out 641hp through a 5 speed sequential gearbox.

With only 1,960lbs of weight to shift and some sticky slick tyres to help out, it’s definitely one to not take lightly, but maybe it’ll be quite cooperative as the last thing a driver needs in an endurance race is car that’s working against him and not with him.

Incidentally, the track we’re racing this week is where the 333SP debuted back in 1994, Road Atlanta to be exact and it’ll be the full layout too.

But wait.. There’s more!!

Last thursday the last of the season pass car packs dropped So i’ve had time to pick one of those cars from that pack as the second car for this week.

While it may seem predictable, the outcry of the vocal minority made this my choice, because hey it’s here, might as well enjoy it to it’s fullest.
Plus it’ll slightly tick off those naysayers abit more and that’s always fun.

The 2018 Honda Odyssey!!!

Yep, we’re doing the school run at 100+mph in this Minivan.

It’s Packing a 3.5 V6 making 280hp which is sent to the front via a 10 speed automatic gearbox.

It’s predictablly heavy at 4,562lbs, but it’s offset by the fact that you can actually swap in a Dodge Hellcat V8 for some real nutty fun.

This weeks school run will be at Long Beach on the East Route layout.

So be the weekend track warrior in the Ferrari at Road Atlanta and be back in Long Beach for the school run on a new week.

Also from here on in, Any previous DLC cars that weren’t picked CAN now be requested if one decides to.

Have fun out there folks. 👍