Best Full-Size Car (VOTE!)

[Jay.]

$45k? The list price on a brand new, base-model, 2006 Phaeton was $66700. Hell, invoice was north of $60k. Poor inclusion. However to be fair we never got a six-cylinder Phaeton; that could run the price lower. But any vehicle where there is a six-figure option should not be running in the same league as the Hyundai Azera.

Base model in the UK is 3.2 V6 at approx£38K-£44K.

I was using What Car? for pricing in the UK, which made it under (I think the number was 36K that they were quoting), but oddly enough VW.de shot way, way over. I think when they were in the US they would barely scratch under $45K, but I can't recall for certain.

So, yes, its out. My mistake...

If the Phaeton is out can my vote be changed to the Commodore?

 

[Danny]

The 300C has been the first American sedan to seriously bring the full-size fight to it's European and Japanese competitors outside the US.

Each engine choice is a strong performer, and it even hides it's bulk well when the going gets twisty.
Chuck in enough space to hold a rock concert and enough kit to put NASA to shame, and you're on to a winner.
I see more and more of these around here every month. They must be pretty special to tempt people away from brands more established over here.

They've even help kick Chrysler's iffy image to the kerb.
What's not to love?

 

[Famine]

Well I still haven't cast my vote,, buit I've got a day left, but when checking to see how things were going so far (Skoda has one vote, and it's not from me!) I noticed Sakiale has voted for atleast 3 cars.

Four. So his votes will be removed and none allowed to count.

His name will still show up, but the numbers will be amended.

Along with JER_CREST and Mista_Kellar's 4 votes each.


Until they enlighten me which ONE car they'd like to vote for.

 

[Danny]

If you're going to remove votes, I would like to point out that I voted for the C6 as well as the 300C.

 

[Jim Prower]

They've [LX-Body] even helped kick Chrysler's iffy image to the kerb.
What's not to love?

The fact that it's become aged and is due for replacement in a year or two, that's what. True, true, it is a very good automobile, and it WAS the best, but it's not anymore. (Like the old Lincoln LS. Remember that one?) By the way, you must not get the 2.7 "Rattletrap 500" V6. Terrible engine.

Like I said, if this was 2010, I'd vote for it, (granted that the LY-body 300 would be out) but the Zeta, for now, is a fresher, well-put-together, and overall better package.

 

[YSSMAN]

To be honest, I'm a bit worried about LY. I haven't heard much about it in recent months, and the last story I can recall reading said that the Challenger would ride on a modified and updated LX chassis, not LY. With the Imperial due out in 2010, you would think that would be in LY, but I haven't heard anything about that either.

Money problems, I assume, are to blame for a good part of that. I would hope that Cerberus wouldn't put a hold on any further development. Not to say LX isn't still a relevant chassis, but Zeta has outdone it, and there is no telling what Ford may or may not do come 2010 when their new RWD chassis is reportedly due. I'd more or less hope that LY will be stronger and lighter than LX, but that may be wishful thinking.

The 300C/Charger is still an excelent car, but if it wasn't for the interior, I'd probably like it a lot more than what I do now. Still, for the money, its one of the better options you have until December when the G8 hits the streets.

 

[Famine]

If you're going to remove votes, I would like to point out that I voted for the C6 as well as the 300C.

Which would you like to keep?

 

[Danny]

Which would you like to keep?

300C if I may.

Thanks.

 

[1X83Z]

Base model in the UK is 3.2 V6 at approx£38K-£44K.

So the cheapest, crappiest version, which was never even sold in the US, might make the price cutoff, though probably not.

As I mentioned - poor inclusion.

300C if I may.

Thanks.

Good choice. 👍

 

[Tornado]

The nose of the car is twice (or more) the length of the rear of the car. Looks horribly out of proportion.

Ever hear of "cab forward design?" That does it better than any other car I have ever seen.

 

[TopHat]

Sorry, I saw it was a multi-choice poll.

I'd keep my vote for the Commodore.

 

[Famine]

Sorry, I saw it was a multi-choice poll.

I'd keep my vote for the Commodore.

Amended.

I also just noted that philly_cheese and Syxx-killer voted for a pair of cars, so I've removed their votes pending clarification.

This now means that everyone who voted for the Charger actually voted for something else as well, and it's now on 0 votes.

 

[Sakiale]

Four. So his votes will be removed and none allowed to count.

His name will still show up, but the numbers will be amended.

Along with JER_CREST and Mista_Kellar's 4 votes each.


Until they enlighten me which ONE car they'd like to vote for.

Yeah, I didn't see that we were only allowed one... but I vote for the Dodge Charger.

 

[JCE]

I can't believe there are 7 votes for that craptastic Chrysler 300. I blame rappers and the American upper middle class people for pretending it is a "cool" luxury car. 👎

 

[Tornado]

I blame rappers and the American upper middle class people for pretending it is a "cool" luxury car.

That's nice. How's the Azera coming with the whole "driving the rear wheels" thing?
Is the Azera a better quality piece? Yes, yes it is. Is the Azera a better car overall than the 300C? No. No it is not.

 

[1X83Z]

I can't believe there are 7 votes for that craptastic Chrysler 300. I blame rappers and the American upper middle class people for pretending it is a "cool" luxury car. 👎

Drive one.

 

[JCE]

Drive one.

Newsflash, I have--way too many times than I care to of. At least the Charger while practically the same car looks lightyears better. The 300 is not good value in my opinion unless you get the SRT-8--and even then the engine and bodywork (minus the stupid front grille) are the only good things. When I sold Fords earlier this year we had quite a few 300's come in on trade and needless to say the owners weren't pleased at the build quality AND horrendous resale value.

That's nice. How's the Azera coming with the whole "driving the rear wheels" thing?
Is the Azera a better quality piece? Yes, yes it is. Is the Azera a better car overall than the 300C? No. No it is not.

So if the Azera is better quality then why is it not the better car. Ummm, hello? I can't help the American predujce against Hyundai/Kia now can I, so why should Hyundai be penalized for having BETTER QUALITY PRODUCTS than Chrysler? I think that speaks for itself, its clear I hit a nerve with some of you--and I intended to spark up a debate about the lackluster 300. But, once again I am in a me vs the rest of you debate that I'm sure to lose just based on reply volume.

 

[Tornado]

So if the Azera is better quality then why is it not the better car. Ummm, hello?

As Doug says, drive one. Then drive an Azera. If you even think to say the Azera is the better driving car and more fun car, then you fail at life. The Azera is just a high quality version of the good old American Land Yacht (ALY) that have filled U.S. roads since the war.

I can't help the American predujce against Hyundai/Kia now can I, so why should Hyundai be penalized for having BETTER QUALITY PRODUCTS than Chrysler?

Because Chrysler designed a drivers car that sits happily among a bunch of cars that might as well be spiffed up Buick Regals. Hyundai designed another best Buick that Buick never built, which is the same reason why no one cares about the Toyota Avalon that I nominated.

I think that speaks for itself, its clear I hit a nerve with some of you

Yup. You hit a nerve with the man who thought the Kia Optima should have won Car of the Year by singing praises for the Azera.

But, once again I am in a me vs the rest of you debate that I'm sure to lose just based on reply volume.

You are on what is essentially a car enthusiast forum and just derided a driver's car for a land yacht, and you expect response to be favorable regardless if you are right? I agree that the Azera is miles ahead of the 300C quality wise. But I would choose the 300C over the Azera in a heartbeat if given the choice, because I'm not over 60.

 

[1X83Z]

Newsflash, I have--way too many times than I care to of. At least the Charger while practically the same car looks lightyears better. The 300 is not good value in my opinion

Perhaps your opinion of value is skewed - in no other product on the road today can you purchase 340 horsepower plus all the stuff they offer (steering wheel audio controls, power heated leather seats, power pedals, auto headlights and mirrors, etc.) for the price they do. As such, it's a great "value."

A 300C costs - at the most basic level - $34500. One with every single option, save all-wheel drive, would run about $39000, and that includes stuff like adaptive cruise control, nav, heated rear seats, curtain airbag, run-flats, in addition to stuff like a 6-CD changer w/ MP3, etc. Just basically everything. A comparable E550 runs about $70000.

Ouch.

 

[JCE]

As Doug says, drive one. Then drive an Azera. If you even think to say the Azera is the better driving car and more fun car, then you fail at life. The Azera is just a high quality version of the good old American Land Yacht (ALY) that have filled U.S. roads since the war.

Again, I've driven too many of them. I'll take the car that has better build quality thanks, and that's the Hyundai. They both are boring to drive in most trim levels, but again, the 300 is craptastic. You call the Azera "ALY" and you seriously can't sit there on your high horse and refrain from making the same statement about the 300? If that is the case--and to borrow your phrase, "then you fail at life".

Because Chrysler designed a drivers car that sits happily among a bunch of cars that might as well be spiffed up Buick Regals. Hyundai designed another best Buick that Buick never built, which is the same reason why no one cares about the Toyota Avalon that I nominated.

A "driver's" car? The 300? Oh god, what have you been smoking. The 300 is anything BUT a driver's car. The suspension is HORRID, and I do mean HORRID. If I wanted to drive a large American saloon car with soft wollowy suspension I'd drive a 1987 Lincoln Town Car or 1984 Cadillac Brighton. And the Toyota is just as bad, but better than the 300 in one important catagory--build quality. And actually I like the Avalon--yes that's right I do like Toyota's still. I just think they need to offer a good sporty model with less "soft" suspension and sightly more sporty tires. Avalon > 300

Yup. You hit a nerve with the man who thought the Kia Optima should have won Car of the Year by singing praises for the Azera.

Ok sarcasm aside, WTF are you going on about?

You are on what is essentially a car enthusiast forum and just derided a driver's car for a land yacht, and you expect response to be favorable regardless if you are right? I agree that the Azera is miles ahead of the 300C quality wise. But I would choose the 300C over the Azera in a heartbeat if given the choice, because I'm not over 60.

Again, the 300 is no more a driver's car than a 1987 Lincoln Town Car. And the age range of the Azera is probably 10-15 years less than the 300. All I see driving 300's are 20-something moronic kids who think their car is luxurious and old people. And again, you can't call the Azera a "land yacht" and not call the 300 the same thing. I smell a hypocracy.

Perhaps your opinion of value is skewed - in no other product on the road today can you purchase 340 horsepower plus all the stuff they offer (steering wheel audio controls, power heated leather seats, power pedals, auto headlights and mirrors, etc.) for the price they do. As such, it's a great "value."

Not quite a good value if you lose more money in residule value and the fact that it isn't built as well as some of the Asian or European rivals. Sorry, the 300 is not even close to being the 10th best put together American car. But, I digress, again everyone's definition of "value" is a bit "skewed" from others. MY definition of value is different from yours. And so on...

A 300C costs - at the most basic level - $34500. One with every single option, save all-wheel drive, would run about $39000, and that includes stuff like adaptive cruise control, nav, heated rear seats, curtain airbag, run-flats, in addition to stuff like a 6-CD changer w/ MP3, etc. Just basically everything. A comparable E550 runs about $70000.

Ouch.

For one, the E550 isn't a competitor because the Merc is actually a luxury car in a luxury car segment. The C-class is more of a competitor to the 300 than the E-class. The 300C is as far from a great value @ $39k when just for $2k more you get an A6 which is SO much a better car than the Merc and 300. And don't give me the obligatory "omghax the 300C is faster in a straight line" crap. There is more to a car than "340bhp of pure straight line speed". And for reference the 300C's 0-60 is only 0.8s faster than the base 3.2L A6. So all that HEMI muscle and it barely surpasses the Audi powerplant with almost half the displacement and 2 less cylinders and a billion lightyears more technology. Oh yea and did I mention the A6 weights almost 300lbs more and it still is only slightly less than a second to 60mph from the 300C? Hmm, yea the 300C wins. *smirk*

 

[YSSMAN]

Personally, I really like both cars. But if I had a gun to my head and someone was yelling "Choose!" I'd likely take the Chrysler. I absolutely hate the interior in the car, but overall the optional V8 power and RWD make the Chrysler the better idea... No matter how horrid the suspension may be.

The Azera is a great car, don't get me wrong. I'd happily take it over the Avalon and maybe even the S80, unless of course the Volvo had the V8 option-box checked.

...Still, the Commodore wins no matter what. A great engine lineup, optional manual transmission on the V8, and an actual suspension that allows for the full-size car to handle is well-worth the asking price.

Now if Ford wants to get on getting the Falcon here....

 

[Tulok]

I went with the Holden, I saw it on Topgear once. It was very cool! especially compared to the 300C or the Hyundai.

 

[Tornado]

Again, I've driven too many of them.

Well, I'm quite sorry that every 300C you have driven was a 2.7L anemic pig of a base model. I hope you find your way into a Hemi, or, at the very least, a 3.5L.

You call the Azera "ALY"...
If that is the case--and to borrow your phrase, "then you fail at life".

Let's see: For starters, the Chrysler is NOT FWD. That automatically adds points as a drivers car 7/10 times.
Also, the Hyundai competes directly (and I mean directly) with the Buick LaCrosse, Toyota Avalon, Ford 500 and internal competition from the much worse Amanti. So, can you tell me which one of those has any sporting character besides the ability to not be spongier than 70's Eldorado?
That entire class of cars is dedicated to people who want to get from point A to point B as quietly and comfortably as possible, and a very large majority of them are over the age of retirement.
The 300C is closer to a cheap Cadillac STS than it will ever be to any of those cars.

you seriously can't sit there on your high horse and refrain from making the same statement about the 300?

Lets see, everyone from Car and Driver to European magazines say just about the only legitimately good thing about the car is its driving characteristics. So, I'd say its safe to say that, yes.

A "driver's" car? The 300? Oh god, what have you been smoking. The 300 is anything BUT a driver's car. The suspension is HORRID, and I do mean HORRID. If I wanted to drive a large American saloon car with soft wollowy suspension I'd drive a 1987 Lincoln Town Car or 1984 Cadillac Brighton.

Are you just saying stupid stuff for attention?

The setup actually supplies a real appetite for curves that the old front-drive 300M could only promise. The 4140-pound 300C is a big car cured of typical big-car ills. There's no squealing or squirming when the roads begin to snake. Slip angles—the difference between where the tires are pointed and where they're actually rolling—stay down in German four-door territory. Body pitching in the corners and under braking (a reliable 184 feet from 70 mph under a firm pedal) is minimal, the movements sharp and controlled.

Link.
Its so comical what you say, because it is as if you completely mis-identified the two models as you are defending the Azera for being something it is the opposite of, and attacking the 300C for something it is the opposite of.

And the Toyota is just as bad, but better than the 300 in one important catagory--build quality. And actually I like the Avalon--yes that's right I do like Toyota's still. I just think they need to offer a good sporty model with less "soft" suspension and sightly more sporty tires. Avalon > 300

And you know what it would be then? A wallowy boat with a stiff suspension, just like the Camry Sport. Only less people would buy it, as 65 year olds aren't worried about XTREME G FORCES so much as a soft ride.

Ok sarcasm aside, WTF are you going on about?

You said I was biased against Hyundai/Kia after my multiple post argument with Doug over whether or not the Kia Optima should have won Car of the Year.

Again, the 300 is no more a driver's car than a 1987 Lincoln Town Car.

Again, drive one that isn't a 2.7L. Those are only meant for rental car companies.

And the age range of the Azera is probably 10-15 years less than the 300.

So 75-80 year olds buy 300Cs?

All I see driving 300's are 20-something moronic kids who think their car is luxurious and old people. And again, you can't call the Azera a "land yacht" and not call the 300 the same thing. I smell a hypocracy.

I smell someone who has never read a review of either the 300C or the Azera.
​

The 300C is as far from a great value @ $39k when just for $2k more you get an A6 which is SO much a better car than the Merc and 300.

That's nice. The 300C SRT-8 starts at the same price. That would smoke the A6 in the straight and destroy it in the twisty bits too.

And don't give me the obligatory "omghax the 300C is faster in a straight line" crap. There is more to a car than "340bhp of pure straight line speed".

And I'm sure it would be damn funny when you realise that your base Audi comes with a stripped interior and then proceeds to get outhandled by both the normal Hemi and the SRT-8.

And for reference the 300C's 0-60 is only 0.8s faster than the base 3.2L A6. So all that HEMI muscle and it barely surpasses the Audi powerplant with almost half the displacement and 2 less cylinders and a billion lightyears more technology.

Yeah, because everyone knows how cars with more technology are always faster than those completely without it. Oh, wait.

Oh yea and did I mention the A6 weights almost 300lbs more and it still is only slightly less than a second to 60mph from the 300C?

Oh lord in heaven. Pull stuff out of your ass much? The base A6 with the 3.2L? Yeah, that weighs over 400 pounds less than the second level up 300C with the 3.5L. The A6 also weighs over 600 pounds less than the 300C Hemi. Did you do your patented "google search," like in the Shelby thread?

 

[1X83Z]

For one, the E550 isn't a competitor because the Merc is actually a luxury car in a luxury car segment. The C-class is more of a competitor to the 300 than the E-class. The 300C is as far from a great value @ $39k when just for $2k more you get an A6 which is SO much a better car than the Merc and 300. And don't give me the obligatory "omghax the 300C is faster in a straight line" crap. There is more to a car than "340bhp of pure straight line speed". And for reference the 300C's 0-60 is only 0.8s faster than the base 3.2L A6. So all that HEMI muscle and it barely surpasses the Audi powerplant with almost half the displacement and 2 less cylinders and a billion lightyears more technology. Oh yea and did I mention the A6 weights almost 300lbs more and it still is only slightly less than a second to 60mph from the 300C? Hmm, yea the 300C wins. *smirk*

So the 300C is cheaper, quicker, and has significantly more stuff (a base A6, which is actually about $4000 more, doesn't even have heated seats or a sunroof), plus more interior room all around.

The A6 is more German.

I know which one I'm choosing... and this from an Audi driver who in another thread admitted he hates American cars. I do hate American cars in large part - but there's a reason everyone gets behind the 300: because it really is that good.

You said I was biased against Hyundai/Kia after my multiple post argument with Doug over whether or not the Kia Optima should have won Car of the Year.

TWO POINT SEVEN LITERS

I understand the Sonata but you can't give me one good reason for the Optima. Not one. It wasn't even a 2007 model - it automatically wins 2006.5 car of the year though.

 

[YSSMAN]

I know which one I'm choosing... and this from an Audi driver who in another thread admitted he hates American cars. I do hate American cars in large part - but there's a reason everyone gets behind the 300: because it really is that good.

Thats too bad. Well, at least you like the 300 over the Hyundai... I can't win 'em all!

(Although, its better to love German than to love Japanese)

 

[1X83Z]

Thats too bad. Well, at least you like the 300 over the Hyundai... I can't win 'em all!

(Although, its better to love German than to love Japanese)

I don't get it - I'm arguing for the 300. I even voted for it.

That entire class of cars is dedicated to people who want to get from point A to point B as quietly and comfortably as possible, and a very large majority of them are over the age of retirement.

Trivia question: what's quicker in the quarter mile: the original Lamborghini Miura, or the current Toyota Avalon?

The answer is the Avalon for two reasons - one because it actually is quicker and two because the Miura broke down after an eighth of a mile. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA god I'm funny.

 

[TuneRVisioN]

Uhh Hyundai is Korean, not Japanese...

 

[TopHat]

Uhh Toyota is Japanese, not Korean.

TWO can play at this game.

Avalon/=/Azera.

 

[Jay]

The answer is the Avalon for two reasons - one because it actually is quicker and two because the Miura broke down after an eighth of a mile. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA god I'm funny.

Huh? To get a Miura down a eighth mile, 'one' would presume it would need to have started first.........

 

[TheCracker]

That's nice. How's the Azera coming with the whole "driving the rear wheels" thing?
Is the Azera a better quality piece? Yes, yes it is. Is the Azera a better car overall than the 300C? No. No it is not.

Generic looking as it is, at least the Azera doesn't look like a 70's RR Silver Shadow that Westcoast Customs have got their mitts on

Trivia question: what's quicker in the quarter mile: the original Lamborghini Miura, or the current Toyota Avalon?

The answer is the Avalon for two reasons - one because it actually is quicker and two because the Miura broke down after an eighth of a mile. HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA god I'm funny.

Yes but which would you prefere to have sitting on your driveway?