Best 'My First RWD car'?

[Conza]

I'm not planning on changing my car immediately, but the thought has crossed my mind to supplement my current car with an additional car, like a weekend car or something, and since I've had a great FWD car so far, the next logical step once you know how to 'drive' is to learn to drive a RWD.

So immediately my thought turned to a cheapish BMW, and when you think of that its a 2-3 generation old 3 series (7 won't be fun, 5 won't be 'that' cheap and old Zs could be wobbly).

Post 1980, and Pre 2005, the E36 and E46 search quickly became a '330Ci' search, and they are surprisingly affordable, atleast to buy and 'run' (not own), like 7.8 litres per 100 kms?!?!?! wth?! My 2 litre 1200kgs hatch returns 8.3 combined, and this heavier, larger displacement car returns less fuel? Anyway. They seem to be around 25-15k for any E46 between a 325i-330Ci (I think anything less than a 325 is pointless for a BMW, even as a 'my first RWD car').

So for about 20 grand well 15-25, can anyone think of a better my first RWD car? Remember I'm in Australia, so carsales.com.au is basically the wiki here, (US prices and cars won't apply) I'd love to hear from people who were buying their 2nd, 3rd, 4th or whatever car, if they were considering a RWD, and what they ended up doing, or just what you would do/recommend.

 

[homeforsummer]

[/thread]

Though E36s and E46s are decent. They do get surprising economy considering the engines, and it's worth looking at E39 5-Series if you like BMWs, as they're supposed to be excellent at basically everything. And in the UK at least, an E39 is really no more to buy or run than an E46. And they're built a little better than 3-Series are too.

 

[Conza]

Yes I had thought of that, a 1st or 2nd generation MX-5 (especially 1st for the pop-up head lights, and 2nd for the 2 litre engine), would be excellent choices, but they are a bit slow, (might be on par with a 325 actually? the fast ones 7 seconds to 60).

Mind you, perhaps you don't want a particularly fast RWD as the 'first RWD' car you drive?

 

[Rotorist]

Rx8?

 

[Conza]

Rx8?

Too thirsty, I do love the RX-8 though, and it is a coupe too, but I mean that 1.3 engine, while amazing, even for a weekend car - especially with the promise of 7.8 from the 330Ci, not even the 325, but the 330 returns 7.8, how could I live with a 12-13 litres car knowing that?

 

[Jim Prower]

well, you're in australia...perhaps a 6-cyl Falcon or Commodore would suffice?

but...really...MX-5 is all you really need, largely because it's just huge fun.

 

[Conza]

well, you're in australia...perhaps a 6-cyl Falcon or Commodore would suffice?

but...really...MX-5 is all you really need, largely because it's just huge fun.

Well, while they are popular, they are a bit crude really, they wouldn't really teach me the finese of a true sports car, they are more like, copy muscle cars, manufacturered locally using US parts, but not exactly what I'm looking for, besides, they are a little ordinary, there's something special about all of the suggestions so far I think, just a little bit not over the top super classic car, but they all have a driver appeal which you wouldn't find (imo) in a Falcon or a Commodore... besides I know a guy who owns the latest Monaro, and he loves the look of it but says it drives like a horse, so that isn't a good start.

Not to mention again, fuel economy, I mean the MX-5 and the 330/325 are looking to be the obvious and best shot at this point, I just thought there would be a whole hear of suggestions people might have that I hadn't considered, none of the Lexus IS200/250s? idk much about those, but yeah.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yes I had thought of that, a 1st or 2nd generation MX-5 (especially 1st for the pop-up head lights, and 2nd for the 2 litre engine), would be excellent choices, but they are a bit slow, (might be on par with a 325 actually? the fast ones 7 seconds to 60).

Mind you, perhaps you don't want a particularly fast RWD as the 'first RWD' car you drive?

2nd-gen MX-5 had a 1.8-litre (and a 1.6) 3rd-gen had 1.8 and 2.0 options.

And they'll feel faster than they are. Noisier and lower to the ground than a 3-Series so the sensation of speed is greater, even if you're not actually going as fast. The less of the outside you experience the faster you need to go to make up for it.

And that brings me on to your second point, which is that of course it's fairly wise to not buy too powerful a RWD if it's your first, though at the same time 3-Series aren't hugely tail-happy (a Mk1 MX5 will probably go sideways more easily), and ultimately if you do get it wrong, the BMW is a safer vehicle to crash in.

Though if you're sensible and know your limits, it doesn't really matter anyway.

Edit: And you've just mentioned the IS200, which I won't steer you away from. Always liked those, and considered owning one myself.

 

[Conza]

Hmm, catch 22 a bit on the performance front, get the less safe slower car, or the faster safer car, haha, I don't know which one I'd be more likely to crash to be honest, I would probably push the MX-5 to the limit more, but it'd be 'easier' to speed in the BMW, interesting point, thanks for the contribution homeforsummer.

I'm not hearing many personal experiences, just general advice, any 'first RWD' stories out there? it might've only been when you were in your late 30s or 40s before you got one, or it could've been when you were young and it was a cheapy, would be interesting to hear some actual experiences with your own RWD cars. Or, if you had them in the past and don't any more, why you moved away from it (that parts just asking for a wave of family and boat stories! haha).

 

[Famine]

My first RWD was an NB MX-5. My second was an NA MX-5. My third is an E39 5-series Touring. When the E39 is replaced, it'll be with another E39 - and I will be hunting for NA/NB MX-5s when I'm in a position to do so next.

 

[Conza]

My first RWD was an NB MX-5. My second was an NA MX-5. My third is an E39 5-series Touring. When the E39 is replaced, it'll be with another E39 - and I will be hunting for NA/NB MX-5s when I'm in a position to do so next.

Mmm, yeah the E39, possibly one of the greatest cars ever made, my father owned two of them, first a midnight blue sedan, and second a touring, he then made the mistake of replacing the E39 with an E60, horrible interior, exterior.

But would you also recommend it as a first RWD car? a 530i would be pretty nice, but also quite large, which models did you have? How were their fuel consumptions (why do I care, this a weekend car? still do).

 

[Bopop4]

Miata with a turbo.
Good fuel economy and 150-200rwhp, that should be fun enough.

 

[Famine]

But would you also recommend it as a first RWD car? a 530i would be pretty nice, but also quite large, which models did you have? How were their fuel consumptions (why do I care, this a weekend car? still do).

Ultimately the driven wheels are an irrelevance - it could be a Maglev for all it matters - it's just a flat-out, all-round excellent car. I'm sure I could turn the ASC off and go drifting if it mattered. I'd say that if you're specifically looking for a RWD car (actually, first I'd ask why - on the roads it makes very little difference) you might not enjoy it as it doesn't behave very RWDy - it just goes like stink and you can't kill it.

We have the almost-entry-level 523i (2.5). It does about 28-30mpg (Imperial - 9.7l/100km metric) combined but it doesn't really matter what you've got in it or how fast you're going - it does that regardless. 700kg of gravel at 80mph, 29mpg. Empty and 65mph, 29mpg.

It will be replaced with a V8.

 

[NLxAROSA]

My first RWD car (and the last ) was a 2005 Nissan 350Z. Nice car, but I couldn't get a good seating position in it because of the short seats and the steering wheel that couldn't change depth. Something that is mostly annoying when you use it a lot (daily driver for me), but I guess it would be less annoying if it's just a weekend car.

 

[oopssorryy]

A first gen MR2 would be a good car, if you can find one without rust. It comes with a great engine that saw use in celica's and corollas, so its super easy to find parts

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm not hearing many personal experiences, just general advice, any 'first RWD' stories out there?

I bought my first, a 91 MX5, when I was 23-24 ish. Was a nice introduction to RWD, quick enough, tail-happy but not dangerously so. Reliable, fun. Got stolen, which wasn't so good.

Second RWD was, and is, the 1974 Beetle in my sig. You can't really tell its RWD as it doesn't have enough power, but given some wet roads or snow it might be more noticeable.

I prefer RWD to other drivetrains but to be honest, with the right car you can have fun in anything.

 

[Eric.]

A first gen MR2 would be a good car,

Not really.

if you can find one without rust.

True story.

It comes with a great engine that saw use in celica's and corollas,

Shared the basic engine with the AE86 and a larger displacement version in Celicas.

so its super easy to find parts

Kinda.



Wouldn't really recommend one if you're not comfortable driving a car at its limits in the first place though.

 

[SpartanG]

^ isn't the first gen mr2 the one that was notorious for rapidly and violently losing the rear end, or was that the second gen? I know midship cars tend to lose the rear end suddenly and w/o warning unlike FR, but I think the MR2 was especially bad at some point. Maybe it was a different car.
Anyway I'm also looking at getting babbys first FR in the next year. Miata is the best choice, serioiusly. Super cheap, so you can afford it if you're young, and if you're older you can keep it as a second car. Not much more needs to be said about this.

This jalopnik post may help. http://jalopnik.com/5856320/the-ten-best-cars-for-learning-how-to-hoon/gallery/1

 

[Eric.]

Yeah, first gen MR2 is the one that likes to spin the most. I've only spun mine once though, at an autocross. I honestly feel like driving the Yellowbird a lot in GT4 was good practice for getting used to handling MR oversteer.

If you drive sensibly enough its not going to be a problem, but its pretty easy to hang the ass end out...Driving hard its almost a necessity without sticky tires.

 

[eight6er]

My first RWD was a 1987 AE86 corolla, I got it when I was 19. It wasn't in great shape, but it was perfect for learning how to handle RWD, these cars teach you how to drive properly they have plenty of power for a learner, but not so much that it's scarey. It was the most reliable car I had owned at the time by far. I loved the handling, the driving position and how cheap it is to run, they also came with a very good LSD as standard here. I've owned 2 more since that one and I'll most likely buy more again.

 

[Cale]

A practical choice.

 

[oopssorryy]

I don't know why people hate on the MR2 so much. Its no worse than the Feiro. Its way more reliable than the Feiro as well.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

For that price range, there's pretty much only one choice in my view:

 

[Conza]

I don't know why people hate on the MR2 so much. Its no worse than the Feiro. Its way more reliable than the Feiro as well.

I love the MR2, my father had two of them when I was very young, however they aren't safe, even when he was in his early 30s, and a former amatuer racing car driver, he managed to spin it - it's not an easy car to control, and not imo the best example of a standard RWD car, the best RWDs seem to be FRs, well there are plenty of good MRs too, but when they lose control, your in luck's chance to survive or not.

For that price range, there's pretty much only one choice in my view:

Well, there are plenty of modified ones to avoid, but they do rev to what? Like 9900rpm? Which is pretty tempting, and I have a feeling on balance these things would actually be more reliable than a 330 or 325 (and whenever there's a problem cheaper to fix), but that's balanced against the daily running cost which this thing would easily be higher, you're just going to want to rev it more being a 4 cylinder vs. a 6 cylinder. But yes another good choice.

 

[SpartanG]

Since this is going to be a secondary car, get an s2000 over a 3 series, seriously. A 3 series is a sports sedan, meaning that it has to give up some concessions to have everyday practicality. But the S2000 is a true sports car. Drive these cars side by side and you'll never look back. And the well-known F20 powerplant in the S2000 is way more reliable than anything BMW has built in recent times. It's an engine built to rev, it'll take anything you throw at it. Handling is incredible as well, it's very popular in japan on those touge courses. Imagine it as the miata for people with more money.

 

[niky]

The firs RWD we had in the family was a 1970's Lancer. Not really sporty as such, and there was so little grip all around that you'd sooner find yourself understeering off the road than spinning it.

-

The first moderately sporty RWD I've driven were the S12 and the S14. The S12 is fascinating, but good luck finding one that hasn't rusted to bits and you'd need even better luck finding parts for the CA18 turbo motor. The S14... well... Nissans with SR20s and rear wheel drive are sweet. Not as incisive and immediate as the Miata, but they have better brakes, more comfort and they're still very, very controllable at the edge. And your upgrade path is much broader, too.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

^ That also brings to mind one of the other sporty numbers I've been looking at getting myself:

The 200SX Spec.R. The one thing with these though is that it's a hell of a lot harder to find one that isn't ridiculously modified. The Spec.R GTs, with the full leather bits and the big wing, are easier to find unmolested but are harder to find in general.

Also with the S2000, the AP1s (early model examples) scream to 9000rpm. Power cam doesn't come on until about 6100rpm I think and max power (180kW) isn't made until 8300rpm. Running costs I reckon wouldn't be as bad as you think. They're very reliable for sports cars and fuel consumption is rated only a little bit higher than my CD7 Accord. The fuel tank is smaller though but you should still see 600kms+ from a tank if you drive fairly economically. It's really a small price to pay though when you have so much fun wrapped up in the drivetrain. Screaming VTEC 4-pot and a super-slick 6-speed manual makes for a pretty epic combination.

One thing to watch out for though is that if you're really pushing it to the absolute limit, it's easy for the back to step out on the AP1s if you're not careful. They remedied this with the AP2 with a softer setup in the back suspension but those examples still cost very well north of $40k.

 

[niky]

You know, come to think of it, an S14 200SX with the turbo motor would be more comfortable, less edgy and roomier than the S2000. And the kicks would come on at 3-4k rpm instead of past 6k.

And they have an actual... well... roof.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Family or personally? Cause the best ones I grew up with was my Dad's 80s Malibu and 90s Corvette. The best one I had was a Toyota Tacoma 07 that I bought off my parents and then traded in for a Taurus later on.

 

[TheCracker]

Porsche 930 Turbo [/THREAD]