Best Production 2WD Rallyist?

[EA11R]

Has anyone here found any non-4WD production cars that they found escpecially well-handling on the dreadful rally stages?

And, before an admin locks the thread as a duplicate, I'd like to make an argument for the thread as being unique:

• This is not asking for the best 'special conditions' car, as many do.
• This is not asking which rally car is best, as many do.
• This is referring to 2WD rallying, as it seems none do.
• This may become rather interesting...

I've noticed many threads like this in one of the above qualities--except that third one--but none had all in common. And, if an admin locks the thread, I'd very much like to see the thread that it duplicates.

 

[Picc84]

Unless I find a Wide open rally with lots of room for turning, or the complete opposite, an extremely slow rally with smalll tight quarters, I dont see a reason for a 2wd rally car? Although it would be fun!

 

[dimplz]

2wd...hmmm...low hp so no wheel spin. fav 2wd rally car is the my tuned FR monaro

 

[Loon]

Are you wanting these cars for a reason? Or is this just for pure conversation?

 

[Kent]

Has anyone here found any non-4WD production cars that they found escpecially well-handling on the dreadful rally stages?

And, before an admin locks the thread as a duplicate, I'd like to make an argument for the thread as being unique:

• This is not asking for the best 'special conditions' car, as many do.
• This is not asking which rally car is best, as many do.
• This is referring to 2WD rallying, as it seems none do.
• This may become rather interesting...

I've noticed many threads like this in one of the above qualities--except that third one--but none had all in common. And, if an admin locks the thread, I'd very much like to see the thread that it duplicates.

I'm not locking the thread but let me tell you, staff at any site don't take well to demands when closing a thread. Asking to see the duplicate thread is like saying "I'd like to see one of the many reasons this thread could be closed."

In any case, I can understand the interest in the subject.
There aren't many two wheel drivers with rally potential.
That said, I'd suggest the 206 RC but the fact is, there just aren't many 2wd rally cars.
Maybe the Xsara rally race car?
Or maybe the Celica TRD. 👍

Whatever the case, glad to see an original topic in this old forum. 👍

 

[ceiling_fan]

Yeah the Xsara (FF) came to mind first, haven't driven it in GT4 though.

 

[mafia_boy]

I've actually put this to the test on my 1st memory card and won....ON HARD on Swiss Alps with the following car.

97' Camaro Z28 w/61000+kms
Mods: Semi-Racing Exhaust
Chip
Sports Suspension
Twin Plate Clutch
Semi-Racing Flywheel
Wing
Stage 1 Weight Reduction
Oil Change

All up, around the $20k mark including the $8500 for the Camaro and around the 240Kw/320hp mark from memory. Totally destroyed the Evo Lancer '03 Rally Car after an initial stint (just under 2 laps) of being behind one way, and an Impreza '03 Rally Car on the Return trip. The Impreza was a better match, only just winning by a few seconds over it.

Mafs!!

 

[Danny]

Assuming you did actually want a production car, I found the Renaultsport Clio to be a lot of fun on the rally stages.

 

[Greycap]

Even though they're pretty odd choices, the rear engined RUF models do really well. Lots of weight in the back makes for a superb traction. The Alpine A110S shouldn't be passed hastily either, after all it was the best rally car of its time.

 

[superberkut]

There are plenty of purpose-made rally cars with production counterparts, such as the Nissan 240SX, the 1973 Lancer or even the Nissan Bluebird (or Datsun 510). All are production vehicles, but are rather underpowered. Their light weight makes for some good rallying, though, with a bit of fine tuning.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The Datsun 240Z...or maybe it's a Nissan, I forget...anyways, the early-'70s model. Doesn't handle perfectly off-road (actually too much understeer at first) but I've gotten some pretty mean results after playing with the settings.

 

[DeltaTrain]

the Peugeot Rallye 👍

 

[Rotary Junkie]

RX-8!

Quite good if you can deal with it.

 

[Picc84]

The R..X.. 8?! Are you ok RJ?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Yes, in fact.

Read through This thread to find out why. Apologies for foul language from myself and one other member.

 

[Metar]

Assuming you did actually want a production car, I found the Renaultsport Clio to be a lot of fun on the rally stages.

Even though they're pretty odd choices, the rear engined RUF models do really well. Lots of weight in the back makes for a superb traction. The Alpine A110S shouldn't be passed hastily either, after all it was the best rally car of its time.

The two best suggestions here. I've actually done many laps in 2wd cars on Rally stages, and the Clio proved fastest among the (regular) Fwds, while the Alpines and RUFs proved to be the most enjoyable from the rear-driven batch I drove. In fact, I drove about 20 Fwd hatches, and not only was the Renault the fastest, it was also the easiest and most enjoyable to drive. Runner-up came the SEAT Ibiza.

But the title, perhaps, should go to the car that invented purpose-built rallycars: the Lancia Stratos. Light, not too powerful, and an extraordinary amount of lift-oversteer makes it a daemon on the stages.

Among other quirky cars, I also got to drive the Isuzu GT-R around Chamonix, which was quite a treat, as well as the tiny Honda Beat (with some extra power). Both were great handlers.

 

[panjandrum]

My best three rally cars are all 2WD:

Lancia Stratos Rally Car (the old "wedge of cheese" model)

Lotus Elise IIIr with racing suspension tuned for off-roading.

RUF BTR (again with plenty of suspension tuning)

So you can definitely use 2WD if you wish. I don't like understeer at all and have a hard time driving 4wd cars, so I eventually made these cars to win all the rallies I couldn't otherwise win.

Also, as mentioned above, the Alpine 1600s is a great rally car.

 

[EA11R]

I dont see a reason for a 2wd rally car? Although it would be fun!

The self-answering question! Yeah, I just like using different cars and methods than the masses. Occasionally leads to a fun discovery!

I'm not locking the thread but let me tell you, staff at any site don't take well to demands when closing a thread. Asking to see the duplicate thread is like saying "I'd like to see one of the many reasons this thread could be closed."

Did that come off as a demand? Oh no, not at all; more of a polite request. And I figured that, once you failed to find the duplicate thread, you'd realize there's no reason to lock this one.

I'm quite pleased with the replies, actually. Thank you all! I had a creeping feeling this thread would die quickly, but it seems I may have found something good here!

I simply must try rallying in a Yellow Bird.

 

[Alfaholic]

But the title, perhaps, should go to the car that invented purpose-built rallycars: the Lancia Stratos. Light, not too powerful, and an extraordinary amount of lift-oversteer makes it a daemon on the stages.

Sorry, I gotta call pedant mode on that one:

Daemon, definition: A system related program or process that sits in the background until it is invoked by another process or some event to perform its task.

/pedant off


I did a comparative test (unpublished) of the roadgoing versions of selected rally specials through the ages a while ago, on tarmac and ice. While I agree that both the A110 and Stratos were a lot of fun (and, if I recall correctly, both embarrassed the Audi Quattro and Delta Integrale in terms of laptimes), the Stratos was, predictably, by far the quicker of the two. It was also harder to spin.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

There's a lot of 2WD cars from the era before 4WD became popular for rallies. Some have mentioned the Alpine Renault and Lancia Stratos 👍 I've driven the Stratos in GT2 but haven't tried the Alpine yet. Early Skylines are also fun because they understeer as a default (even in GT2) so they skid thru the dirt in a very safe manner.

 

[Metar]

Sorry, I gotta call pedant mode on that one:

Daemon, definition: A system related program or process that sits in the background until it is invoked by another process or some event to perform its task.

/pedant off

At the same time:

daemon
n 1: one of the evil spirits of traditional Jewish and Christian belief [syn: devil, fiend, demon, daimon]
2: a person who is part mortal and part god [syn: demigod]

I did a comparative test (unpublished) of the roadgoing versions of selected rally specials through the ages a while ago, on tarmac and ice. While I agree that both the A110 and Stratos were a lot of fun (and, if I recall correctly, both embarrassed the Audi Quattro and Delta Integrale in terms of laptimes), the Stratos was, predictably, by far the quicker of the two. It was also harder to spin.

Yes, the Stratos is more predictable, and faster - but that may have something to do with being slightly newer (Alpine A110 was introduced in 1961, while the Stratos is of the 1974 vintage), and also a purpose-built car:

Alpines became successful rallycars ('73 Champions, the inaugural WRC championship, while also dominating the '70-'72 "International rally championship for makers"), being basically built on the base of Renault R8s.

Meanwhile, the Stratos was meant to be a successful rallycar. It was designed from scratch with that in mind - and the result was three straight championships ('74-'76). It was newer, it used more modern materials, was more powerful, with a 2.5 litre Ferrari Dino V6, and was built with a better design in mind - a very short, very wide, mid-mounted design offering maximum traction and speed. It was fast enough to continue winning long after '76, but Fiat decided to replace it with the Fiat 131s for PR purposes. It even won a races in '79, entered by a privateer, and it's last win came in '81.

 

[Alfaholic]

At the same time:

daemon
n 1: one of the evil spirits of traditional Jewish and Christian belief [syn: devil, fiend, demon, daimon]
2: a person who is part mortal and part god [syn: demigod] .

You win! 👍

Yes, the Stratos is more predictable, and faster - but that may have something to do with being slightly newer (Alpine A110 was introduced in 1961, while the Stratos is of the 1974 vintage), and also a purpose-built car:

Alpines became successful rallycars ('73 Champions, the inaugural WRC championship, while also dominating the '70-'72 "International rally championship for makers"), being basically built on the base of Renault R8s.

Meanwhile, the Stratos was meant to be a successful rallycar. It was designed from scratch with that in mind - and the result was three straight championships ('74-'76). It was newer, it used more modern materials, was more powerful, with a 2.5 litre Ferrari Dino V6, and was built with a better design in mind - a very short, very wide, mid-mounted design offering maximum traction and speed. It was fast enough to continue winning long after '76, but Fiat decided to replace it with the Fiat 131s for PR purposes. It even won a races in '79, entered by a privateer, and it's last win came in '81.

This is true, which is why I added the "predictably", but that still leaves the Stratos as the faster choice. Also, less predictably, I find I am faster in both than I am in the newer and 4WD Quattro, and the even newer Integrale, so youth does not guarantee pace, at least in GT4.

 

[Metar]

This is true, which is why I added the "predictably", but that still leaves the Stratos as the faster choice. Also, less predictably, I find I am faster in both than I am in the newer and 4WD Quattro, and the even newer Integrale, so youth does not guarantee pace, at least in GT4.

You forgot that 4WD equals terminal understeer in GT4, at least as far as nose-heavy Inline-5s with stock suspensions are concerned.

The Lancia, remember, is also more powerful

 

[Tornado]

I've always found the DeLorean to be surprisingly well-suited to cleaning up the special conditions races of the lower levels (when you are racing crappy Celicas and Evos rather than full blown rally cars). And this also, even more surprisingly, applies to the low grip snow and dirt races, where the DeLorean acts as if it is easier to drive in snow and dirt than on normal roads.

 

[Alfaholic]

You forgot that 4WD equals terminal understeer in GT4, at least as far as nose-heavy Inline-5s with stock suspensions are concerned.

The Lancia, remember, is also more powerful

This is very true. I must say though, slightly off topic, that the Quattro did indeed understeer but at the same time I found it to be very precise and predictable. It is a very tidy car to drive. I love it. It was just slow, like it was heavy I suppose, but it's one of those cars which feel like it could lap at maximum speed all day, no mistakes, no lap time variations. The Integrale felt less well tied down, even after a chassis refresh, and slower. Not sure what Lancia you are quoting as more powerful. Both the Integrale and Quattro have more power than the stock Stratos, if memory serves. Arent those two 4wd cars around 200bhp, and the Stratos is around 175? The Stratos is lighter though, I think, and I wasn't very surprised by its pace. I wonder if the real thing would also be quicker than a Quattro or Integrale?

 

[Metar]

The power thing is about the Lancia/Alpine argument. Alpines have around 125HP, if I recall correctly, while the Stratos comes with 190hp (Ferrari Dino V6 FTW - Race versions developed 280HP, with the turbocharged versions running at an unreliable 560HP!).

Yeah, I know the Quattro well from the WRS - it's very predictable and precise, but I suspect that it's also down to the slightly lower cornering-speeds, and the fact that, on the dirt, it's harder to turn the nose. On tarmac, it's bloody difficult to drive fast, simply because it requires a lot of braking and a specific way to handle it.

 

[CirclesCenter]

Do I feel a showdown coming on? This sounds hot and I think I already have my entry picked.

Vehicles must have an adjusted displacement of no more than 2650cc. there are displacement multipliers for certain types of engines:

Rotary *1.7
Turbo/Supercharged *1.8
Diesel *0.8

You must use all relevant modifiers: A car with a turbo rotary engine would have a maximum displacement of 866cc (866cc * 1.7 *1.8 = 2649.96cc)

Weight: Car must weigh 1.05lb per cc of adjusted displacement: 2000cc NA car must weigh 2100lbs. the game gives weights in kg, so multiply by 2.2 to get lbs.

Required Mods:
Increase Rigidity.
Cages are a requirement and we don’t want anyone leaving us.

Allowed mods:

Exhaust & Air Filter: Semi Racing
Racing Brakes
Brake Controller
NA Tuning: Stage 1
Racing Chip
Clutch: Sports
Flywheel: Sports
Differential: Any
Turbo: Stage 2 (remember the modifier)
Super Charger/Intercooler: Any (remember the modifier)
Suspension: Any
Tires: Any
Weight Reduction: Any (remember the minimums)
Rigidity Refresher Plan
Oil changes
Car Washes
Wheels: Any

You may substitute lesser versions of any of these mods (ei: stage 1 turbo), and you may choose not to use any or all of these mods, but you may not use any mods not on this list.

There is no Budget!!!

 

[EA11R]

Okay, those standards are phenomenally confusing. I'd suggest simplifying them hugely if you want to get any participation at all. First, do away with the multiplier. It is overly contrived, and I honestly can't figure out where those numbers came from. Second, convert the pounds to kilograms, for convenience. Third, do away with the parts list, or at least alter the lesser entries; no one cares about car washes and wheels, and if you must buy a flywheel, whey not get a racing flywheel? There is sort of a natural performance limit anyway, since we're dealing with a very low-grip situation here, and 500hp would not be wanted.

 

[CirclesCenter]

The displacement multipliers along with the weight calculation would make for a very even fight. I got the figures from the link Rotary Junkie posted, and in turn they were adapted from rules for some rallying class. (Sorry, don't know which one and running out the door right now ) So dump the parts list I guess and then go? Maybe different multipliers for different turbo stages.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The displacement multipliers along with the weight calculation would make for a very even fight. I got the figures from the link Rotary Junkie posted, and in turn they were adapted from rules for some rallying class. (Sorry, don't know which one and running out the door right now ) So dump the parts list I guess and then go? Maybe different multipliers for different turbo stages.

If you are suggesting a competition, you should start a new thread...I might be interested but I'm also a bit confused about the rules. I'll get it eventually, tho...