best video card for my money?

[gordie44]

Hey all, I'm sure that this thread has been started before, but I couldn't find a really recent one, and new stuff comes out all of the time.

I'm looking to get a computer for iRacing. I've got my eyes on a...

Gateway DX4860-EF30P
i3 2120 Dual 3.3 Ghz
4GB RAM (PC3 10600)
1 TB HDD
DVDRW

Video card is- Intel GMA HD

I assume this video card is crap. as the computer is a reasonable price (around $300 CAD/186 GBP), I don't mind upgrading. I will be buying this card from a Best Buy or Future Shop (I get staff price) and installing it myself.

I'm looking to display on a 42" 600Hz Plasma, but I want the new card to be able to go up to a 60" display no problem (hey, I might win the lottery yet)

I'm also looking at maybe doing a triple screen setup down the line, but with smaller (19"-24" monitors)


I read on here that this card is the best for the money:

SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6850 1GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102908

however, for the same price-ish, I can get this one:

Sapphire Radeon 2GB GDDR5 (HD6850)

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/sapphire-sapphire-radeon-2gb-gddr5-pci-e-video-card-hd6850-hd-6850-2g/10201461.aspx?path=71014f1eca14367e774d3598372de6dfen02


What do you think is the better choice? they look pretty similar, but the resolution is different between them.


I also have been looking at these:



Diamond AMD Radeon HD 7850 2GB DDR5
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/diamond-diamond-amd-radeon-hd-7850-2gb-ddr5-pci-e-video-card-7850pe52g/10202053.aspx?path=a6ae03039427ede568ebb4292e0082afen02



Diamond Radeon 6950PE52GXOC 2048MB GDDR5
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/diamond-diamond-radeon-6950pe52gxoc-2048mb-gddr5-pci-e-video-card-6950pe52gxoc/10162856.aspx?path=7401f56fa27f393ace06a407e39db5dfen02



Diamond AMD Radeon HD 7870 2GB DDR5
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/diamond-diamond-amd-radeon-hd-7870-2gb-ddr5-pci-e-video-card-7870pe52g/10202052.aspx?path=18c03e220af43bac3d9be485cddcb7d6en02


Are there any huge differences between those cards above and the ones I was originally debating over? Any big pros or cons to each one? Is it worth the extra money to pay for a great one when a good one will work? Are any of them overkill for what iRacing can deliver or what my prospective computer can handle?

I'd like smooth operation, no 'lag' or jerky motion. I'm not thinking of getting a 100' projector or anything like that, just the above displays (42", 60", maybe triple screens down the road). A nice clean, crisp picture is preferred.

any other thoughts on what I have written?

Thanks a lot guys! looking forward to seeing you on iRacing sooner or later!

 

[Grayfox]

The Nvidia GTX580s are selling cheap for around $400 here in Australia, so in N.America it will be cheaper and if you get 2 or 3 you can SLI them.

But none of those cards are good as your CPU sucks and it bottleneck everything.

But I would say get a mid range card.

 

[tlowr4]

^^ Hey now, he's only got an i3. For iRacing I'd suggest the 6870 for your money, anything more would start to bottleneck.

Whoops, didn't realize you'd said that already. But yeah, anything more than about a HD6870/HD7850/GTX560 is going to bottleneck out. However, to do a triple screen setup later, you'd need a full system upgrade. There's no way you'd get playable frame-rates, even on low-medium settings. The 6870 struggles with triple screen setups in iRacing even with a 2500K (I'll find some benchmarks and link them later, I'm in a school lesson at the moment :3), so with your i3 you'll have issues.

EDIT: Question, what's your overall budget for the setup? You may (well, not may, will) be able to build yourself something that will perform better for the same price. Building your own rig these days is damn near idiot proof, so even if you have little to no experience, just look around and watch YouTube, get a mate to help, and you'll be right.

 

[Sharky.]

Of the previous-generation (Radeon 6xxx, GTX 5xx) cards, the 560Ti is generally considered to be the best value for money - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130604. In terms of current cards (7xxx, 6xx) I believe the best value card is the GTX 670 (at least until the GTX 660 comes out) but that's massive overkill for iRacing.

If you want a bit more by way of future-proofing and 1) aren't afraid to build a complete system from scratch and 2) don't mind spending $800 or so: http://pcpartpicker.com/ca/p/7Sqe


By the way, if you aren't already aware - there's zero performance hit running a 60" display compared to a 42" one if they're the same resolution (720/1080p)

 

[tlowr4]

^^ Nice, I was gonna show something like that myself. Do keep that in mind, OP. Just one thing, I'll link it later, but with a few tests, CoolerMaster PSU's are dodgy. Nick sent be the link a few months back, I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I would like to see the proof of this bottlenecking. It seems like it's being blown out of proportion.

 

[gordie44]

The Nvidia GTX580s are selling cheap for around $400 here in Australia, so in N.America it will be cheaper and if you get 2 or 3 you can SLI them.

But none of those cards are good as your CPU sucks and it bottleneck everything.

I can't fathom spending $1200 on video cards right now!

SORRY everyone.

I thought that a 3.3Ghz processor was not too bad these days, and another thread reccommended this (and an upgrade to the Vid card) as a starter for iRacing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883157332&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=4169991&SID=2wg6cixq1139

so I figured that 3.3 Ghz was only better, and there wouldnt be a problem, however you all are convincing me otherwise

Is it the brand or generation of processor that's bad?


Let me state my budget, I'm looking to spend $600 on a good computer, though someone else around here mentioned to someone that....

I suggest spending 700$ on a computer, that is the sweet spot where your computer turns into a mid-performance gaming computer.

Here is a nice build:
965 BE
haf 922
500gb hard drive
win 7 64 bit oem
4gb ram
amd 970 chipset motherboard (am3+)
antec bp 550 power supply
sapphire 6850 graphics card

The best price/performance pc's are custom built. Those hp's you see at best buy or on newegg, they have nice cpu's and nice hard drives, but they usually skim the **** out of the power supply, graphics card and motherboard.

Now, I have no fears of building my own computer, I know it's easy as anything, but I don't really want to run around finding all the parts. I guess I figured that if I could get a desktop for a good price (the computer in the OP was 'valued' at $600 retail, and from working at the same company I know there's not that much markup on computers as is) and then upgrade the video card, i'd be all set.

Maybe could I upgrade the processor as well? It sounds to me like I should either;

A) Buy all the components separately, getting what I can through my staff discount (Vid Card, CPU(intel only), Power Supply, RAM, HDD, Sound Card, Tower, Motherboard) and then buying other parts through Newegg or www.tigerdirect.ca. Then build from scratch. I have the time and patience to do this, if it is cost effective.

B) Look for a new computer that has almost all that I need, and then upgrade the parts that suck. This is what I was going to do, but it appears that I don't know what I am looking for in a computer like I thought I did. I know what will run well surfing the net and opening programs, but my knowledge of how much processing power is needed for specific Sound / Video cards is above me.



EDIT: P.S. What is the point of having 2GB video cards (and more) when everyone is saying that 1GB is okay for iRacing? does it help at all?


Thanks everyone!

 

[CMvan46]

I'm just going to assume they put a wickedly cheap power supply in that computer and I wouldn't be surprised if doesn't have the power to run an aftermarket card. Dell is famous for this and as it is a Gateway computer definately not built for gaming it's likely a 300-400 watt power supply. 7850 is my recommendation because it uses very little power but you'll likely need to upgrade the power supply as well.

My honest opinion is go the self built route. You already get a discount on the major stuff and I'm sure we would all be happy to build you a computer of compatible stuff considering everybody loves to do that. Just set a budget and somebody will help.


Also more VRAM helps at resolutions of 1080p and higher... Usually real benefits are seen at the 1200p+ resolutions. Some games take advantage of the extra VRAM better than others so you get varying benefits depending on the game. I'm very unfamiliar iRacing though so I can't help there.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I thought that a 3.3Ghz processor was not too bad these days, and another thread reccommended this (and an upgrade to the Vid card) as a starter for iRacing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883157332&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=4169991&SID=2wg6cixq1139

so I figured that 3.3 Ghz was only better, and there wouldnt be a problem, however you all are convincing me otherwise

Your CPU is better for almost everything especially gaming. Looking online it's good enough for iRacing. Though it looks like a triple screen setup is best suited to a high-end graphics card.

I would look into upgrading the graphics card, most likely a power supply as well, and a new case depending on the case situation.

 

[sesselpupser]

You're not wrong about 3.3GHz being good, the problem is the number of processors you have. An i3 only has two whereas an i5 has four, and you can probably already imagine the difference two more processors running at 3.3GHz would make. The i5 2500k is a quad core processor running at the same speed as yours and it's often touted as the most processor you need for modern gaming.

 

[Grayfox]

You're not wrong about 3.3GHz being good, the problem is the number of processors you have. An i3 only has two whereas an i5 has four, and you can probably already imagine the difference two more processors running at 3.3GHz would make. The i5 2500k is a quad core processor running at the same speed as yours and it's often touted as the most processor you need for modern gaming.

Most games need 2 but that means you are limited and may have some lag when windows wants to do background tasks and needs a CPU core.

And if you want to record your game play with fraps or something similar you will need to cores for that.

And the i5 have 2 cores and 2 threads per core which makes windows think their are 4 cores, but some CPUs like the i5 2500K(sandy bridge)i5 3570K(ivy bridge) are pure quad cores.

Cache is another important thing in CPUs.

The E6400(LGA775) is a 2.13 GHz dual core CPU with 2MB of cache while the E6420(LGA775) is a 2.13 GHz dual core CPU with 4MB of cache.

I got the E6420 mainly cause it was $20 cheaper than the E6400 and was better.

It also overclocked nicely.

Power supplys are also very important while OEMs tend to supply PSUs that are about 10% more that the max wattage of the system, upgrading something like a video card will mean you will need a new PSU and if you do this don't bother with wattage's but look at amps and also its plus rating, I would recommend 80 plus silver or better.

 

[gordie44]

thanks guys for all your responses! Id be really appreciative if I could do what CMVan46 said, and give you guys my budget and have you put one together for me pretty please?

ill put my budget at $750 MAX (incl shipping, etc). im gonna try to pick up everything possible from my work, so i may have a few questions afterwards comparing similar products from different companies.

I assume that most everyone here shops on Newegg, which is a great site, but i gotta be careful not to order too much because that can drive up the price if i have to pay tax +import fees when it comes into Canada.

and Neema, the i5 2500k sounds great, and its on clearance at my work for $20 (twenty!) but alas, theres none left.


edit: Newegg.ca does ship to canada, fro. canada, avoiding any import fees (but not the tax)

thanks a TON guys!

 

[CMvan46]

Ok here goes my list:

From Best Buy (no idea what staff discount is so these are retail prices)

CPU- i3 2120 $130
Case - Apex Case $30
Power Supply - Corsair 600W - $57
RAM - Kingston 4GB 1600mhz - $30

Total $247 + tax (12%?) = 276 - discount.

That's all I'd pick up from work unless your discount is quite substantial. From what I remember staff discount is either 5% or 10 % at Futureshop? Also don't buy a motherboard from there.

From Newegg:

Video Card - 6850 - $140 + $12 shipping = $152
Motherboard - Intel H67 - $103 - free shipping
Hard Drive - 1 TB Samsung 7200 rpm - $109 + $10 shipping = $119
CD/DVD Drive - Asus Random drive - $18 + 7 shipping = $25

= 399 + tax = $448 + 276 = $724

Now if you have some extra money around to upgrade that system the first place I would go is the i3 to an i5 2500k which on Newegg is $230 including shipping so add an extra $100 to the total. I would consider grabbing 8 GB (4gb x 2 sticks) of ram for an extra $20, the HAF 912 case from Newegg for an extra $35 or the motherboard to a z68 for an extra $40.

Any of those upgrades may help although the RAM upgrade will probably make the least difference. All those things should work together as long as I read it all right as I'm now in a bit of a rush but I did get it under the total $750 after shipping and taxes and you should run iracing and many other game no problem although not at max settings at 1080p.


Edit: The first Sapphire card you posted in the original post is better than the one I posted for $170 - the discount it is probably cheaper than the one I posted so go with that over the one from Newegg.

 

[Sharky.]

thanks guys for all your responses! Id be really appreciative if I could do what CMVan46 said, and give you guys my budget and have you put one together for me pretty please?

See my post earlier in the thread:

If you want a bit more by way of future-proofing and 1) aren't afraid to build a complete system from scratch and 2) don't mind spending $800 or so: http://pcpartpicker.com/ca/p/7Sqe

That comes in at $821, although you can swap the 7850 for a 560Ti and save $30 for a (very) small performance loss. $790 is about as cheap as you're likely to get when it comes to a "proper" gaming system (2500k minimum for CPU) - if you were able to get a 2500k for $20 then you'd quite possibly have the best system ever in terms of bang for your buck.

 

[bevo]

Why doesn't anyone ever recommend AMD CPUs for budget builds. My buddy just upgraded one with a FX 6100 for the CPU and MOBO for 150$. Tom's hardware didn't find a bottleneck with that cpu until they ran I think 2 6970s with it. He got the cpu, mobo, and 8 gig 2100 mhz ram for 200$ from microcenter. I know AMD isn't like the intel counterparts, but who's going to run dual 6970s anyway in a budget build. You certainly are not going to with a 800$ build. You could go AMD and go big on the GPU, or go intel and just go mediocre on the GPU. By the time your cpu is the bottleneck you will probably be ready for an entire new build anyway. Just my 2 cents. If you have microcenters up there they did have a great sale going on a few weeks ago.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Why doesn't anyone ever recommend AMD CPUs for budget builds. My buddy just upgraded one with a FX 6100 for the CPU and MOBO for 150$. Tom's hardware didn't find a bottleneck with that cpu until they ran I think 2 6970s with it.

Because his current 2120 dual-core beats that AMD CPU in gaming. The bottlenecking that happens with the 6100 happens later with the Intel. There's a reason they have bundles that cheap.

 

[Grayfox]

Make sure you get an ivy bridge CPU these have PCIe 3.0 support which will future proof you.

 

[bevo]

Because his current 2120 dual-core beats that AMD CPU in gaming. The bottlenecking that happens with the 6100 happens later with the Intel. There's a reason they have bundles that cheap.

Then why do a rebuild? Just add a GPU and go at it. His 6100 isn't having troubles with anything he's played yet. Sounds like there's no need for a new CPU. Start with a decent gpu and go from there.

 

[Kent]

I just went through all this so I could play a few PC games and ended up using an old raedeon 6770... Does the job nicely in Diablo 3 and never had a problem with The Old Republic. Im sure some of the better shooters on high quality could give me trouble but otherwise I'd say my 6770 does the job rather well (and for about $100).

 

[CMvan46]

Then why do a rebuild? Just add a GPU and go at it. His 6100 isn't having troubles with anything he's played yet. Sounds like there's no need for a new CPU. Start with a decent gpu and go from there.

But why go AMD when for the same price or cheaper an Intel build has less limitations? The 2120 beats the 8 core bulldozer in most benchmarks...

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

I think we all should find him a proper PSU first, and also take into consideration that the card has to fit his case.

 

[Grayfox]

This should do the job nicely if get gets a mid range video card like a 550Ti or 560Ti or its AMD version.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_225&products_id=19150

 

[tlowr4]

^^ Well since the OP is in Canada, might I suggest this: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256071

Not quite as much kick as the ThermalTake, but it's still got plenty enough to run a system with a 560Ti or even a 570.

Also, if the OP ops for one of the newer cards like a 7850/7870 or 650/660 (when it's released), the power consumption is much less on those, for a more powerful card.

 

[gordie44]

thanks everyone! its late now, but ill look at everyones responses in depth tomorrow afternoon, (in about 12 hours or so)

just to clarify, i dont own the computer in the OP yet, but i was bidding on it in an auction. it sold for $300 (not to me). i was convinced from this thread that i would need to upgrade everything except the ram, hdd and the dvdrw drive (and maybe even the case),and didnt think that that was worth $300.

if you guys think that it was worth it, and would lower the cost of my build, theres another identical unit whose auction will end in 14 hrs (19:00 EST) and should sell for the same amount.

gotta say, thanks again guys, i wouldnt know where to start on my own.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Oops, I thought I read that you already have it.

You should only get it if the price of CPU, hard drive, RAM, and DVD drive are more than the price of that computer. The power supply is probably weak and the case might be not all that useful. I don't know how useful the motherboard is, but it might be okay for you.

 

[gordie44]

Ok guys I have opted to just build a PC from scratch and not buy that other one and try to upgrade it.

I have also looked into price discounts from my work and it seems I get a break on Video Cards of about 10%, (which is not good enough) and everything else seems about 5-10%. So I'm just gonna shop online.



A quick question about this:

Make sure you get an ivy bridge CPU these have PCIe 3.0 support which will future proof you.

How vital is this? There is a price increase of about $35 for 3.3 Ghz seen here:

i5 3.3Ghz Ivy Bridge

Is this worth the extra?

 

[Grayfox]

PCie 3.0 x16 has double the bandwidth of PCIe 2.0 x16.
oClock for clock ivy bridge is faster than sandy bridge.
But do not overclock if you do not know what you are doing as these chips will get hot when you do so.

If you want get the 3570K as you can easily overclock it to 4.0Ghz when you water cood it also pair ot with a 670 or 680 and it should a long time before you need to upgrade.
Z77 chipset mother board like the Asus sabertooth or similar board is alao needed.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

How vital is this? There is a price increase of about $35 for 3.3 Ghz seen here:

Is this worth the extra?

Only the top cards will be able to take advantage of the bandwidth so if you plan on getting one or something in the future with similar performance then yes.

 

[gordie44]

Okay so here goes nothing...

This is what I have decided on so far. I know how to put this all together, but as far as matching things up so that they won't "bottleneck", be "not enough wattage/amperage", as well as so one part won't "be overkill for the rest of the setup", I'm not so sure. So please, if I have made a rookie mistake, please correct me! (I know that I probably didn't even have to say so )


My Build So Far

Now I know I am missing some parts, here is why:

Motherboard: I don't know how to match this up, or what is good/bad. I would like at least one USB 3.0, HDMI (I thought that was GPU?), 4x RAM slot, and have it fit in nicely with the rest, without being overkill as stated.

HDD: I have a 1TB External drive which is full, I just bought a 3TB external for $100 (good price, but I bought it by accident ) and will transfer all my data over. I plan on then putting the 1TB inside the build. (let me know if this is a no-no, its a 3.5" and 2 years old)

Power Supply: I want to make sure that there's enough juice running to the goodies. I don't know what's enough, and if there can be too much? Someone mentioned Amperage is important? (This part I am worried about the most, don't want to ruin anything)

Optical Drive: I have a USB external already, that I paid way too much for in Paris a couple years ago (it's now 10% of what I paid for it, ahh technology ) so I would like to just use that on the rare occasion that I need to pop in a disk. (maybe this will present a problem when it comes to installing the OS??)



Other questions -

RAM - I hate slow computers, which influenced my decision to go i5 3570, and 8GB. But there are 30 different kinds of Kingston 8GB RAM, do I have the right one?

GPU - I picked the 560Ti, because it had a LOT of 5 star reviews, as well as several endorsements on here What's the main reason to pick that over the 7850? And the difference between Diamond and Sapphire? Also, there seems to be about 5 versions of each card, I just want to be sure that the "right" one is in my build, as if this gets the 'green light' from you experts then that will be the one I am buying!
EDIT: The main benefit I see to the Radeon 6850 is that it has more outputs....negligible??

EDIT EDIT- Cooling - Do I need to consider a case fan as well? there is no option on PCPartsPicker, am I to assume that it comes with the case or PSU? (Warning, the following may sound dumb..) Do I need to consider a 'liquid cooling system' or is that for the overclockers of the world?

Once again everyone, Thanks!

 

[bevo]

Go for some faster RAM if your motherboard supports it. Get as fast of RAM as your MOBO and CPU can use.