- 28,314
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Fantastic. Hope it's better than Quantum of Solace though; I've seen it at least 6 times now and the end still confuses the utter crap out of me.
Bond back in action
- Thread starter GT Pro
- 219 comments
- 19,436 views
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
What confuses you about it?
- 28,314
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
I haven't seen it in a while, so much of it is a bit fuzzy to me.
One thing that kind of bugged me was how did much of what happened (especially the closing scene) have any relation to Vesper? I can't pick up too much without seeing the movie again, because as I said, much of it is fuzzy at the moment. That's just one example that I could remember.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Bond was on the trail of Dominic Greene. He was looking for the name of the man who Quantum used to get to Vesper, Yusuf Kabira. When Bond took Greene out into the desert at the end of the film and abandoned him there, he interrogated Greene about Quantum and not only got Yusuf's name out of him, but his whereabouts and his current mark, Corinne Veneau, who was an agent of the Canadian intelligence services. During the sequence at the Tosca performance, you can hear Quantum operatives talking about "the Canadian" just as Bond joins in the conversation.
During the course of his search for Greene and Kabira, Bond comes to realise that killing the people responsible for Vesper's death will not bring her back. And from watching Camille, who had a similar story to Bond's in avenging her family's death, he also realises that while taking revenge will make him feel good about himself in the short term, it will ultiamtely leave him unfilfilled. He will have abandoned his beliefs - beliefs he has held for some time and which Vesper died to protect - and become no better than the people he was targeting to begin with.
Therefore, he tracks Yusuf to Kazan in Russia, and rather than killing him, he leaves Yusuf to be taken into MI6 custody. He is able to warn Corinne in time, sparing her from a situation like Vesper's where she is forced to betray everything she holds dear for the sake of a lie.
The big problem with QUANTUM OF SOLACE is the marketing. It was pitched as "Bond goes out for revenge", but this isn't entirely true. That central concept was dumbed down from "Bond goes out looking for answers, but everyone around him things he's looking for revenge". Watch the film with this second, slightly more complex idea in mind and everything makes a hell of a lot more sense.
During the course of his search for Greene and Kabira, Bond comes to realise that killing the people responsible for Vesper's death will not bring her back. And from watching Camille, who had a similar story to Bond's in avenging her family's death, he also realises that while taking revenge will make him feel good about himself in the short term, it will ultiamtely leave him unfilfilled. He will have abandoned his beliefs - beliefs he has held for some time and which Vesper died to protect - and become no better than the people he was targeting to begin with.
Therefore, he tracks Yusuf to Kazan in Russia, and rather than killing him, he leaves Yusuf to be taken into MI6 custody. He is able to warn Corinne in time, sparing her from a situation like Vesper's where she is forced to betray everything she holds dear for the sake of a lie.
The big problem with QUANTUM OF SOLACE is the marketing. It was pitched as "Bond goes out for revenge", but this isn't entirely true. That central concept was dumbed down from "Bond goes out looking for answers, but everyone around him things he's looking for revenge". Watch the film with this second, slightly more complex idea in mind and everything makes a hell of a lot more sense.
- 28,314
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
It already makes a hell of a lot of (more) sense than it previously did to me.
Next time I watch it I'll keep that in mind. 👍
First Bond movie I can remember seeing that's confused me as much. Previously it was Casino Royale, it was easy enough to follow but I found it had a few (maybe unnecessary) plot twists.
Next time I watch it I'll keep that in mind. 👍
First Bond movie I can remember seeing that's confused me as much. Previously it was Casino Royale, it was easy enough to follow but I found it had a few (maybe unnecessary) plot twists.
RTSolvalou
(Banned)
- 1,188
Cue chinese investor buying MGM
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Actually, I believe Carl Ichan and Lionsgate have acquired it. It's a very unique arrangement that they have which involves a lot of risk on Ichan's part. He basically needs the MGM creditors to vote on proposals that do not favour him. It's too complex to explain right now, but the future of the studio is quite safe. They just need to find a distributor; Paramount is rumoured to be interested because Sony wanted the distribution rights to BOND 23 and BOND 24 and MGM were only willing to give up the rights to BOND 23 because the BOND 23 will make enough to support the studio in such a way that they can openly choose who looks after the distribution of the films from BOND 24 on without being dependent on another source like Ichan.
- 488
MGM should apply for some of that bail-out money, the tax payer could foot the bill for the new bond film and then pay again when they go watch it...
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, the MGM situation has been resolved, and BOND 23 has officially moved into pre-production. Sam Mendes has been confirmed as director, with screenwriting regulars Neal Purvis and Robert Wade returning alongside John Logan. Roger Deakins - the Coen brothers' regular cinematographer (and previous collaborator with Mendes) - will also join the production crew.
As for the cast, Daniel Craig is returning as Bond and a lot of big names have been thrown about, with Javier Bardem first and foremost. He was leaning towards Ron Howard's THE DARK TOWER project, but that has since collapsed and Bardem is a free agent. Now that the Harry Potter films are done with, Ralph Fiennes is also on the market and the producers are said to be after him. Rhys Ifans has also been linked to a role, though the credibility of the claim is a little questionable. So too Ben Whishaw, who starred alongside Craig in LAYER CAKE. Naomie Harris has reportedly had an audition, and speculation places her as the new Moneypenny (I'm questioning this because Meatloaf was originally cast as Renard in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH, but lost the role when he spoke too soon and Robert Carlyle was re-cast). Rachel Weisz has also been mentioned, but that is mostly tabloid speculation after she and Craig got married in secret during production of DREAM HOUSE. And finally, Judi Dench is returning as M, and she has confirmed it will be her last appearance in the franchise.
Shooting has so far been confirmed for India, with scenes said to take place at Delhi's Red Fort and along the Kolkan Railway. South Africa is highly likely, though currently unconfirmed; a former South African rugby player spoke to Sam Mendes on a flight to South Africa, and Mendes let slip that they were location scouting. Likewise, production has had problems getting shooting permits in parts of India - they need to shut down a section of railway line and they're meeting some resistance - and those scenes may be shot in South Africa instead. Other reports claim that production is looking for "a dilapidated castle or manor house" in Scotland, with tabloids claiming that the scenes shot there will be "to get Bond back in touch with his heritage" (Ian Fleming was so impressed by Sean Connery's performance in DR. NO that he gave Bond Scottish ancestory).
Christopher Nolan has a reputation for being tight-lipped about production of his films, but EON were doing it for years before Nolan started directing. They have a history of not letting information out until they want it to be publicly-known, so it is a little hard to work out exactly what is going on. This has been further muddied by the South Africa connection - Jeffrey Deaver was chosen by Ian Fleming Publications to reboot the Bond continuation novels with CARTE BLANCHE, and large sections of that story take place in South Africa. A couple of news outlets (most notably one in Hungary) claimed that BOND 23 would be an adaptation of CARTE BLANCHE, though EON have never adapted a continuation novel before. And given the reactions to CARTE BLANCHE, I don't think too many people would like it as a film.
As for the cast, Daniel Craig is returning as Bond and a lot of big names have been thrown about, with Javier Bardem first and foremost. He was leaning towards Ron Howard's THE DARK TOWER project, but that has since collapsed and Bardem is a free agent. Now that the Harry Potter films are done with, Ralph Fiennes is also on the market and the producers are said to be after him. Rhys Ifans has also been linked to a role, though the credibility of the claim is a little questionable. So too Ben Whishaw, who starred alongside Craig in LAYER CAKE. Naomie Harris has reportedly had an audition, and speculation places her as the new Moneypenny (I'm questioning this because Meatloaf was originally cast as Renard in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH, but lost the role when he spoke too soon and Robert Carlyle was re-cast). Rachel Weisz has also been mentioned, but that is mostly tabloid speculation after she and Craig got married in secret during production of DREAM HOUSE. And finally, Judi Dench is returning as M, and she has confirmed it will be her last appearance in the franchise.
Shooting has so far been confirmed for India, with scenes said to take place at Delhi's Red Fort and along the Kolkan Railway. South Africa is highly likely, though currently unconfirmed; a former South African rugby player spoke to Sam Mendes on a flight to South Africa, and Mendes let slip that they were location scouting. Likewise, production has had problems getting shooting permits in parts of India - they need to shut down a section of railway line and they're meeting some resistance - and those scenes may be shot in South Africa instead. Other reports claim that production is looking for "a dilapidated castle or manor house" in Scotland, with tabloids claiming that the scenes shot there will be "to get Bond back in touch with his heritage" (Ian Fleming was so impressed by Sean Connery's performance in DR. NO that he gave Bond Scottish ancestory).
Christopher Nolan has a reputation for being tight-lipped about production of his films, but EON were doing it for years before Nolan started directing. They have a history of not letting information out until they want it to be publicly-known, so it is a little hard to work out exactly what is going on. This has been further muddied by the South Africa connection - Jeffrey Deaver was chosen by Ian Fleming Publications to reboot the Bond continuation novels with CARTE BLANCHE, and large sections of that story take place in South Africa. A couple of news outlets (most notably one in Hungary) claimed that BOND 23 would be an adaptation of CARTE BLANCHE, though EON have never adapted a continuation novel before. And given the reactions to CARTE BLANCHE, I don't think too many people would like it as a film.
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
That paper is a bunch of rubbish at this point. It is as said earlier, EON has never adapted a continuation novel before, so why start now?
Give them time.
Give them time.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, they mistook some of the details. The stuff about South Africa was the first to emerge, and given that the newspaper was in Hungary, something evidently got lost in translation.
But even before all that, Deaver's style makes CARTE BLANCHE very difficult to adapt. A lot of the plot twists don't get a lot of foreshadowing, and unless you're familiar with his work and thus know what to look for (after three or four books, it becomes obvious how he dresses his foreshadowing up), the big twists can seem a little bit cheap. For example, I read THE EMPTY CHAIR a while ago, and one of the characters dismisses a pivotal plot point early on. The problem is that he is painted as an expert on the subject and has no reason to lie, so when he dismisses it, the reader does, too - only for it to be revealed as important later on. CARTE BLANCHE has a plot twist halfway through the third act that does this; there is only minimal foreshadowing to begin with (but it's very easy to pick up on re-reads), and then the twist comes out of the blue. It's a problem because Deaver doesn't really give the audience enough to work with. The fun part of these books is in trying to figure out what is happening before the main character does, and the best-executed books are ones where the reader discovers it at the same time as the main character, but has enough information beforehand to have worked it out.
Also, the villain in CARTE BLANCHE is a guy who runs rubbish tips. That was never a strong starting point.
But even before all that, Deaver's style makes CARTE BLANCHE very difficult to adapt. A lot of the plot twists don't get a lot of foreshadowing, and unless you're familiar with his work and thus know what to look for (after three or four books, it becomes obvious how he dresses his foreshadowing up), the big twists can seem a little bit cheap. For example, I read THE EMPTY CHAIR a while ago, and one of the characters dismisses a pivotal plot point early on. The problem is that he is painted as an expert on the subject and has no reason to lie, so when he dismisses it, the reader does, too - only for it to be revealed as important later on. CARTE BLANCHE has a plot twist halfway through the third act that does this; there is only minimal foreshadowing to begin with (but it's very easy to pick up on re-reads), and then the twist comes out of the blue. It's a problem because Deaver doesn't really give the audience enough to work with. The fun part of these books is in trying to figure out what is happening before the main character does, and the best-executed books are ones where the reader discovers it at the same time as the main character, but has enough information beforehand to have worked it out.
Also, the villain in CARTE BLANCHE is a guy who runs rubbish tips. That was never a strong starting point.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, it's happened again: someone has claimed that BOND 23 will be CARTE BLANCHE. This time, it's a Serbian newspaper, interviewing a chellist named Jelena Mihailovic, who claims to be performing the title theme for the film and scoring it.
It's not the first time something like this has happened. Most of the time, it's aspiring actors (and their agents) putting out press releases claiming that they are in contention for the leading female role. They usually do it about a year before the film is released, because it's a quick - if not necessarily honest - way to get some publicity. You can usually tell when they're phony because the actor in question has virtually no prior credits to their name (although Shilpa Shetty is notorious for it; she did it three times during filming of QUANTUM OF SOLACE) when the Bond franchise is so big that they can take just about anyone they want, so they usually get established actors. And EON have a policy of not issuing denials, probably because there are so many of these claims that it would just waste time tracking each one down and putting out a denial.
But this time, they've done exactly that.
The report from Serbia was reposted on a dozen websites, including IGN, Den of Geek, Comic Book Movie and even Slash Film. Most of the websites have either reputations or fanbases or both. It's obvious EON wanted to kill this one quickly. But even then, dedicated Bond fans ripped it to shreds before EON even got anywhere near it:
First of all, Mihailovic has no presence on the internet. Despite being described as one of Serbia's pre-eminent chellists, she is not a part of any orchestra in Serbia (I know; I checked - even with my working knowledge of Russian, the Serbian language is bloody difficult). She has no presence on the internet, and the only thing that really comes up is the article (always a danger sign). Secondly, filming is taking place in India, and those who have read CARTE BLANCHE know India is not featured in the story. While it could be argued that the film would merely be an adaptation of CARTE BLANCHE, the scenes in India involve a train derailment (in the book, it takes place in Serbia), but the article claims filming would also take palce in Serbia.
I hate it when people do this. If Mihailovic wants attention, she should work for it, not just put out an article claiming something so obviously false.
It's not the first time something like this has happened. Most of the time, it's aspiring actors (and their agents) putting out press releases claiming that they are in contention for the leading female role. They usually do it about a year before the film is released, because it's a quick - if not necessarily honest - way to get some publicity. You can usually tell when they're phony because the actor in question has virtually no prior credits to their name (although Shilpa Shetty is notorious for it; she did it three times during filming of QUANTUM OF SOLACE) when the Bond franchise is so big that they can take just about anyone they want, so they usually get established actors. And EON have a policy of not issuing denials, probably because there are so many of these claims that it would just waste time tracking each one down and putting out a denial.
But this time, they've done exactly that.
The report from Serbia was reposted on a dozen websites, including IGN, Den of Geek, Comic Book Movie and even Slash Film. Most of the websites have either reputations or fanbases or both. It's obvious EON wanted to kill this one quickly. But even then, dedicated Bond fans ripped it to shreds before EON even got anywhere near it:
First of all, Mihailovic has no presence on the internet. Despite being described as one of Serbia's pre-eminent chellists, she is not a part of any orchestra in Serbia (I know; I checked - even with my working knowledge of Russian, the Serbian language is bloody difficult). She has no presence on the internet, and the only thing that really comes up is the article (always a danger sign). Secondly, filming is taking place in India, and those who have read CARTE BLANCHE know India is not featured in the story. While it could be argued that the film would merely be an adaptation of CARTE BLANCHE, the scenes in India involve a train derailment (in the book, it takes place in Serbia), but the article claims filming would also take palce in Serbia.
I hate it when people do this. If Mihailovic wants attention, she should work for it, not just put out an article claiming something so obviously false.
- 4,792
- Canada
The last Bond sucked.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Thank-you for that contribution. I'm sure it took you hours to come up with.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Just found out some details on a stunt sequence planned for the film. I doubt EON wanted the information made public, but they really had to push to get shooting permission for the scene. They got it in the end, but apparently Daniel Craig has to be an ambassador for Indian Railways (which I suspect is what the Indians wanted all along). The scene will apparently go like this:
It's apparently very similar to a sequence that was planned for the pre-title sequence of GoldenEye, but was later scrapped. The parachute dive into a sinkhole featured in Quantum of Solace was also originally planned for GoldenEye, so EON may be revisiting the ideas box. No doubt the proposed scene has been fully worked into the script for this film.
If successful, it could - in fact, it probably will - be a spectacular sequence. It's probably the most dangerous stunt that could be performed; Michelle Yeoh, who was Wai Lin in Tomorrrow Never Dies once did something very similar for a Hong Kong action film (possibly the one that convinced EON she was right for Tomorrow Never Dies), and while she pulled it off, she broke her arm in the process. So this scene in Bond 23 could probably be done without CGI ... it's just a risky proposition.
Bond will jump a motorcycle off a bridge and land on top of a speeding train. He will then ride the bike for the length of the train, abandon it, and jump onto a second train on foot. At the end of the sequence, he will jump off the second train, and land in a body of water.
I'm willing to bet there is something in betweem, something in the second train that Bond is working towards.
I'm willing to bet there is something in betweem, something in the second train that Bond is working towards.
If successful, it could - in fact, it probably will - be a spectacular sequence. It's probably the most dangerous stunt that could be performed; Michelle Yeoh, who was Wai Lin in Tomorrrow Never Dies once did something very similar for a Hong Kong action film (possibly the one that convinced EON she was right for Tomorrow Never Dies), and while she pulled it off, she broke her arm in the process. So this scene in Bond 23 could probably be done without CGI ... it's just a risky proposition.
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
I doubt that they will risk Craig like that. I think that the...
transition between the two trains will be CGI for actor safety as Yeoh broke her arm when she did it.
- 1,731
- Los Angeles
I'll be sad to see this franchise die out. If it does happen to be laid to rest, It will have left a great legacy and a tough act to follow.
1.) Connery
2.) Dalton
3.) Brosnan
4.) Craig
5.) Moore
6.) Lazenby
1.) Connery
2.) Dalton
3.) Brosnan
4.) Craig
5.) Moore
6.) Lazenby
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
But it's not dying out. MGM's financial troubles have been sorted, and production of Bond 23 is about to begin; shooting is scheduled to start in November.
- 1,731
- Los Angeles
^Oh, well then....I hope they don't shoot it in 3-D.
- 5,379
- Yokohama
- F1fan1
Strange. Brosnan so high up and Lazenby at the bottom. Personally I thought the Brosnan era was terrible, and the "I can jump in any random piece of machinery and operate it like a boss" style was just cringeworthy. Lazenby, on the other hand, was an excellent Bond, in an excellent film. Plus he had the best one liner in the history of the franchise.
Strictly my opinion of course. Brosnan could have made a good Bond, but the films he was in were terrible and a real low point for the franchise.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
They won't. Daniel Craig has given an emphatic no when asked if it would happen.
- 2,938
- Shrewsbury
- pezzarinho17
Isn't that Bond all over though?...
I'm glad that Bond 23 is on again, I haven't read any of the books but I like it that way (far better than read book and the film ruins it). Plus I like the current style of Craig's bond who is far more clumsy and hands on with less gadgets. The evolution of early Bond has been done very well.
On the 'Carte Blanche' rumour, I understand that Casino Royale and Quantum Of Solace were based on early books too. Also if I remember rightly, the story of the 'Quantum' organisation expands about 5 books. Is it therefore natural to presume that there will be a plot / book / story arc to follow QOS chronologically or could we see them take an entirely new angle with the new film? Having said all that, I presume I'm going to be pointed back to the 'Carte Blanche' book which started the rumour mill...
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
There was no organisation known as Quantum in the books. It was known as SMERSH, based on an actual orgainsation by the same name. It became known as SPECTRE in the early films, the Special Executive for Counter-Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion. SMERSH appears briefly in The Living Daylights under their full name, Smert' Spionam, or 'Death to Spies', a KGB-sanctioned targeted assassination program.
Casino Royale was indeed based on one of Ian Fleming's books; indeed, Casino Royale was the first novel to feature Bond. Most of the plot is largely intact, although the film version updates it as an origin story - in the novel, Bond is already an established agent.
However, Quantum of Solace is not based on a novel. It shares a title with a short story that appeared in For Your Eyes Only, but has little else in common with the actual story (which involves Bond attending a dinner party with the Governor of Nassau and being told a story about a married couple who stayed together for the sake of appearances).
There is speculation as to exactly how Quantum will figure into Bond 23, assuming, of course, that they do. Dr. No and From Russia With Love featured SPECTRE operatives, but Goldfinger did not (to make matters more confusing, Auric Goldfinger was a SMERSH agent in the novels); SPECTRE re-appeared in Thunderball and ran through until Diamonds Are Forever. The point is that Bond 23 could be a stand-alone story, and shortly after Quantum of Solace was released, Daniel Craig did say he felt they had explored Quantum enough for the time being and that he would like to do single stories now that Bond had been fully established as an agent. All that is know for certain is that Bond 23 will be shot in India. The rest is anyone's guess.
- 1,731
- Los Angeles
sorry, had to post it here.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It's looking like filming won't be taking place in India anymore; I'm guessing EON didn't like the way the Indians kept making demands on the production to portray the country in a more-positive light. Instead, production will be moved to South Africa, though there is no word on whether South Africa will be South Africa, or whether it will stand in for India.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Please pardon yet another double-post, but there is a rumour going around that BOND 23 will be called "SKYFALL". There have been a couple of other rumoured titles, including "CARTE BLANCHE" and "RED SKY AT NIGHT", however, I'm willing to pay attention to "SKYFALL" because there is something solid to run with.
Shortly before QUANTUM OF SOLACE was revealed as the title of the twenty-second film, fans discovered the title by way of a series of recent domain registries by Sony Pictures. Overnight, the same thing has happened again - a string of registries like jamesbond-skyfall.net and skyfallthemovie.com have been traced back to Sony Pictures.
Of course, this just could be a massive ruse; Sony and EON Productions know QUANTUM OF SOLACE was discovered early, and so they could have set up a decoy registry so that when it is proven wrong, people will be less-inclined to believe future domain registries and hopefully keep the title under wraps for longer.
However, I have found something very, very interesting that - although it is pure speculation - could tie into the film and lend credibility to the supposed title. The part offered to Ralph Fiennes was said to be "darkly complex" and needed a high-calibre actor to be able to pull it off. While searching for the meaning of "the sky is falling" (the first thing I thought of when I saw "skyfall"), I found a legal term: fiat justitia, ruat caelum, or "let justice be done though the heavens fall" or "justice must be done, whatever the consequence". I think someone trying to take justice against MI6 for some perceived wrong - and willing to do it at a high cost to themselves - could be described as "darkly complex".
Of course, all of this is just speculation.
Shortly before QUANTUM OF SOLACE was revealed as the title of the twenty-second film, fans discovered the title by way of a series of recent domain registries by Sony Pictures. Overnight, the same thing has happened again - a string of registries like jamesbond-skyfall.net and skyfallthemovie.com have been traced back to Sony Pictures.
Of course, this just could be a massive ruse; Sony and EON Productions know QUANTUM OF SOLACE was discovered early, and so they could have set up a decoy registry so that when it is proven wrong, people will be less-inclined to believe future domain registries and hopefully keep the title under wraps for longer.
However, I have found something very, very interesting that - although it is pure speculation - could tie into the film and lend credibility to the supposed title. The part offered to Ralph Fiennes was said to be "darkly complex" and needed a high-calibre actor to be able to pull it off. While searching for the meaning of "the sky is falling" (the first thing I thought of when I saw "skyfall"), I found a legal term: fiat justitia, ruat caelum, or "let justice be done though the heavens fall" or "justice must be done, whatever the consequence". I think someone trying to take justice against MI6 for some perceived wrong - and willing to do it at a high cost to themselves - could be described as "darkly complex".
Of course, all of this is just speculation.
I read the rumours too, thus far it seems like a long shoot however I do remember the Skyfall name leak which was kind of overlook after the Quantum of Solace's release.
The rumour is getting stronger due to the domains, however is still floating in the air, and it could be other media like a Novel or a Videogame(even so this is kind of contradictory to the domain's names.
The rumour is getting stronger due to the domains, however is still floating in the air, and it could be other media like a Novel or a Videogame(even so this is kind of contradictory to the domain's names.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
There are currently no planned novels or video games, beyond the GoldenEye Reloaded port. Sony have nothing to do with the games or novels, anyway.
And I don't know why Sony would register domains with "film" and "movie" in them for a novel or video game.
And I don't know why Sony would register domains with "film" and "movie" in them for a novel or video game.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Similar threads
