Botched Cars! Will It Carry On To GT5?

That is the only reason I play carbased games. To drive all of them!

And for the Vette 350Z thingy, The Z would lose horribly around any track against the vette. I´ve read many reviews on the Z stating what a great allround car it is, and how badly it sucks on a track. Apparantly it suffars from alot of understeer, and that makes it hard to get a good time around a racetrack. This is not very apparent in GT4 though, but hopefully it will be cured for GT5.
 
YSSMAN
I play NFS just for the hell of it... Sometimes it makes me sad to be a fan of the franchise...
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Yeah, I can understand why you'd be sad. I have proof.

I went to check out NFS:MW on the official website just to see what they've done with the graphics, and I come across this gem:

http://files.ea.com/downloads/eagam.../blacklist_promo/nfsmw_blacklist_promo_hi.mov

I am even more saddened for america's future generations. The guys in the backwards caps acting all badass made me fall out of my chair laughing. This is probably the most retarded thing I've ever seen.
 
Botched cars will continue, Disturbed.... because of the PD bias everybody mentions in the "no used cars" thread. And while we know that it would not be hard for them to test cars in America, sadly, they will probably try to use that excuse as long as they feel they can, which, right now, looks like a while

P.S. A 350Z would get trounced by a Z06... it doesnt handle as good, skidpad or slalom, and the Z06 is very Intensely faster.... something that is not portrayed at all in GT4 - I.E., The Z06 will hit 160 where the 350's only going about 135.... that alone should cover it.......yup
 
I already know botched cars will continue. It's hard work for what I know. Getting in results for Need for Speed games is rather easy because you have only a select number of cars to get right. GT sort of prides itself on cars and just modifying for performance. I don't think they ever prided themselves on every last car being exactly like their real-life counterparts from sound to gear settings. I'm not really a 350Z fan, so I wouldn't know if a 350Z could upset a ZO6 on a race track.

They don't test cars in America? I think I remembered seeing a video for Gran Turismo 2 in which a red Dodge Viper was raced at Laguna Seca. Maybe it wasn't an actual performance test, but at least there aren't completely inaccurate specs and performance figures. In the GT4 forums, someone was rather upset that the specifications for the Scion xB isn't exact. Many people got on the guy simply because it's obvious the xB isn't a performance car. I'm sorry... you just can't assume everyone goes after the sports cars or the fast cars and look for respective specs. Some people even want to see if their Iris Red Pearl Honda Fit/Jazz performs as good as it does in real life. A challenge people would give themselves is, "can I drive or race this car in real life and get the exact same results in a Gran Turismo game?" And the definite answer to this is...

...no.

No, in respect that driving styles are different, track conditions and weather may vary, wind direction can vary, and simply the test driver who initiates the test may be of a certain skill level. This also includes setting up the car for the certain tests. Botched cars will persist on. To me, it should only be a problem if all the cars perform like 20% of cars in its horsepower and performance range, something I don't see happening as long as PD tries to make them all perform good enough for racing. I just honestly don't believe every last car is going to perform very close to their street counterpart in every respect.
 
I think LeadSlead's point is that people are saying that they don't get some American and European cars right because of them being in Japan, and how much easier it is for them to test Japanese cars, and to get them right. and as you just said, this is clearly not the case, them not getting a car's performance right is simply them not putting in the work. whether or not they can get 700 cars all perfect, and how much money it would cost is not what this is about, this is about why it's the Japanese cars that get the benefit, and mainly American cars that get the short end of the stick.
Why do even the less popular Japanese models, as far as we can tell, what with 60 hp and all, seem fine, nobodys has noticed (that I've seen) that they are slower, or have strange, unreal gearing, and things like these - gears should be quite easy, by the way, even if they somehow can't get performance right, gearing should not be a problem, All they need for that is some simple numbers - period.
 
I've already posted reasons for strange gearing. The GT4 database has no provision for multiple final gear ratios, thus encoders have a difficult time on cars with multiple final gears or esoteric gearsets. The current gear ratio problems are nothing compared to the previous GT, where all my Zondas were gear-limited to 150 mph. Hopefully, in GT5, they'll have a provision for multiple gearset combinations. The current system will definitely not be able to cope with any of VW/Audi's DSG boxes or with BMW and Mercedes's current ATs. It already does Honda's CVT wrong, as you can switch between full CVT function and 7-speed emulation on the fly (helps with engine braking) in real life.

Again, I say: I just don't see American cars getting the short end of the stick, even the aforementioned Z06. In GT3, I used to be able to beat my Z06 laptimes in any Tuscan. Now, the Tuscans exhibit much more understeer (realistic or not, I can't say, as I've never driven one in real life) while the Z06 is a Tuscan killer on track.
 
I'm not saying it's only American cars getting shafted, I am saying that I can't think of any Japanese cars getting shafted. The fact that they didnt have these provisions for multiple final drives is none of my concern. I understand that that is the reason, but that doesnt make it acceptable to me, It simply means they need to fix it, it should be quite easy compared to many of the other thing that they have to do while programming the game.
Also, the Dodge Neon SRT-4 does not suffer from multiple final drives, they simply made the gears completly wrong, far too short, I know because I have personally bought and installed a full-race tranny and set the gearing to the exact factory specs, and if I remember correctly, I had to change the final drive to longer than real life, by quite a bit, but eventually I got each gear to go to the correct speeds at redline. Wether this is due to the limits of their final drive system or not, it shouldnt have been a problem, as I got each gear to go to the right spot in 10 minutes, they didnt in 3 years - Meaning that they could've worked around it, even with their current system.

The Zondas in old games were simply geared wrong, I don't believe it was any systematic problem, though I'm am not 100%, I don't recall any cars with the gear issues like the VWGolf, or the Eclipse<---hey, there's one Japanese car! or the Neon, or any others

Although the Z06 only runs a 13.1 or so in GT4 when in real life it ran a 12.6, by a magazine, isnt my main complaint with speed issues with American cars, I'm more upset by the GNX running 1 full second slower, and cars even more messed up, wether being slower, or not stopping as fast, I.E., A new Viper set Motor Trend's record for the fastest stop from 60 and 100 from a production car, yet many in GT4 stop better....why?
I tested it from 100 and just juged by where on the test course I stopped, and many other cars stop faster. And yes, I tested many many runs, and it never once failed
 
Ah, we took that one up... soft cars = good stops... stiff cars = poor stops.
 
I don't know what that means, but it doesnt change the fact that a Viper stopped faster than ANY productin car ever for Motor Trend, including an Enzo, so wether stiff or soft, it Should stop faster, no?
 
Yes, in real life, but unfortunately, in GT4, softer cars often stop better than they should. :ouch:
 
Disturbed07
I'm not saying it's only American cars getting shafted, I am saying that I can't think of any Japanese cars getting shafted. The fact that they didnt have these provisions for multiple final drives is none of my concern. I understand that that is the reason, but that doesnt make it acceptable to me, It simply means they need to fix it, it should be quite easy compared to many of the other thing that they have to do while programming the game.
Also, the Dodge Neon SRT-4 does not suffer from multiple final drives, they simply made the gears completly wrong, far too short, I know because I have personally bought and installed a full-race tranny and set the gearing to the exact factory specs, and if I remember correctly, I had to change the final drive to longer than real life, by quite a bit, but eventually I got each gear to go to the correct speeds at redline. Wether this is due to the limits of their final drive system or not, it shouldnt have been a problem, as I got each gear to go to the right spot in 10 minutes, they didnt in 3 years - Meaning that they could've worked around it, even with their current system.

The Zondas in old games were simply geared wrong, I don't believe it was any systematic problem, though I'm am not 100%, I don't recall any cars with the gear issues like the VWGolf, or the Eclipse<---hey, there's one Japanese car! or the Neon, or any others

Although the Z06 only runs a 13.1 or so in GT4 when in real life it ran a 12.6, by a magazine, isnt my main complaint with speed issues with American cars, I'm more upset by the GNX running 1 full second slower, and cars even more messed up, wether being slower, or not stopping as fast, I.E., A new Viper set Motor Trend's record for the fastest stop from 60 and 100 from a production car, yet many in GT4 stop better....why?
I tested it from 100 and just juged by where on the test course I stopped, and many other cars stop faster. And yes, I tested many many runs, and it never once failed
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I hear ya man. Especialy on the American cars, which does include the Eclipse and Talon since they aren't even sold in Japan. Made and sold in the USA folks. Anyhow, I know the new ZO6 runs sotin like 12.6, but the one that's in the game is like 13 flat I beleive. And it's true, the gearing is crap. PD has alot to get done with GT5. Update gfx, fix botched cars, add new cars (FLP) cough..., new tracks, and update the physics to include alot more factors like wind, true downforce, etc...
 
Disturbed07
Well, let me start off by saying that I've noticed several different cars in GT4 that are NOT up to par compared to real life. Obviously, some of this is opinion, though some of it is fact, too.
Starting with the Pontiac Sunfire GXP Concept, this car has great handling, probabley the best for any FWD car in GT4, however, it has absolutly NO top speed capabilitys whatsoever. Why? even when modified to 319HP, this car can't exceed about 155mph? The Buick GNX runs the quarter mile 1 full second slower than it does in real life, why? The Dodge Neon, has completly improper gearing than it does in real life, and is one of the very few that does, why? The TVR Cerbera, spins like crazy, even with super-soft tyres, why? according to live4speed, seemingly the most knowledgeable about this car here at GTPlanet, this is completley untrue. Obviously, due to only 1 existing, PD did'nt drive it, but why include it if your going to make it undrivable? And there are more, but I'd like to leave some open for discussion.
Finally, what I really want to know, is if anybody thinks this will carry on to GT5? I love cars, and what I love about the GT series most, is that I can drive everyday cars, and see what they can do, I want to be able to compare two cars, and see which is REALLY better. Is it just me, or is this mostly happening with American cars?
Any thoughts, questions, clarifications needed? let me know, and if this thread is a bad idea, forgive me, for I know not what I do.
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From this first post you would'nt think PD got any car modeled . This about the Speed12 is bs it needs throttle control only , you can lower TCM to 1 or 2 to dull the edge of wheelspin , but unless you want to control the model don't get into it's condom . The modeling , may not be ace but it does throw challenges at ya , that 'o6Eclipse is not a problem and attention to customiztion helps here , whereas in Forza you just chuck it through the manjii circuit . It's all in the game & the wily PD will still throw loads of quirk into the mix in GT% .Expect that and buy all the other platforms & game s as they come out but , whatever , don't do any development yourself , don't email PD @ their secret headquarters , don't even sniff that LinuxBiotches Ass .
 
VeilsideR33sub
From this first post you would'nt think PD got any car modeled . This about the Speed12 is bs it needs throttle control only , you can lower TCM to 1 or 2 to dull the edge of wheelspin , but unless you want to control the model don't get into it's condom . The modeling , may not be ace but it does throw challenges at ya , that 'o6Eclipse is not a problem and attention to customiztion helps here , whereas in Forza you just chuck it through the manjii circuit . It's all in the game & the wily PD will still throw loads of quirk into the mix in GT% .Expect that and buy all the other platforms & game s as they come out but , whatever , don't do any development yourself , don't email PD @ their secret headquarters , don't even sniff that LinuxBiotches Ass .
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anybody know what in the hell this guy just said?
I know what you said about the Speed 12 is crap, it'll burnout with TCS on 1 or 2 all through 4th gear, at least with any tires that'll last more than a lap
 
My only real beef with GT4 is the wheel size on a lot of the classic cars with racing tires, especially the older American cars. The wheels were often times barely big enough to clear the brakes, and the side walls were WAY too big.

Thats ok though, GT4 is still well worth the money, and I hope all the whining doesn't encourage PD to say the hell with it and limit us to 150 cars:P
 
It's an absolute shame and a slap in the face what PD did to the Saleen. It's a lot better handling car than the way the made it. And look at the HSC. No way it handles that well. With just 350HP in it's stock condition, I can beat 480HP JGTC race cars. That's not right.
 
Solid Lifters
It's an absolute shame and a slap in the face what PD did to the Saleen. It's a lot better handling car than the way the made it. And look at the HSC. No way it handles that well. With just 350HP in it's stock condition, I can beat 480HP JGTC race cars. That's not right.
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You can beat the JGTC race cars with almost and 350-400Bhp light cars. The AI is just rubbish. No-one knows how the HSC handles, it's never been driven. The Saleen S7 I though could corner really fast, you just need to approach corners slightly diferently. I've not driven it in ages butI do remember thinking it was a decent car.
 
live4speed
You can beat the JGTC race cars with almost and 350-400Bhp light cars. The AI is just rubbish. No-one knows how the HSC handles, it's never been driven. The Saleen S7 I though could corner really fast, you just need to approach corners slightly diferently. I've not driven it in ages butI do remember thinking it was a decent car.
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It spins it's tires a bit to much, especially if your a believer that N2's are realistic stock tires..., and it plows like a dumptruck.
However N4S is correct, you can drive it fast, but it takes practice, and much self control, as it responds far better to a slow-in fast-out approach.
 
Hm, I too seem to remember the Saleen didn't make very good corner entries, but indeed a little practice solved that problem. Still, it never felt quite 'stable', compared to cars like a Jag XJ220 (just an example), so I didn't like the car very much.
Although it was a damn fast car, I believe I easily made it to the 400 km/h mark without any tuning or changing the setup. Is that even right? I was quite surprised I should say.
 
That's true, it doesnt feel stable for some reason does it? The real car has craploads of downforce too....
it should get whatever 217mph (no oil change) and 220mph translate to
 
Well, that's about 354 km/h (the 220 number), which is more than a bit different from my number. I did about 250 mph. Strange. And I would have sworn I didn't tune it. Unless I have alzheimer. :scared:
 
I guess it's possible they changed it for Europe, but that's be really strange...
The only thing I've ever really *****ed about with that car is the wheelspin...mighty excessive, from what mag reviews tell me
 
Why would they change it that much? Makes no sense. Guess I'd have to check it again. But not now, as I'm studying some lovely Analytical Math. :dunce:
 
The S7 can't do 250mph stock in GT4, not in my PAL copy anyway.
 
heres somthing to think about when comparing laptimes with real life:

G-FORCES

when you have 2.5 G's slamming you into the side of your GT car, you sure as hell arent going to keep you foot plastered to the floor through Wippermann like you can in GT4.......also, you dont phisically feel the bumps and jolts in the game as you do in reality....then there is also fear......im sure you wouldnt want you life to end trying to prove you can take the Ring as fast as you did in GT4........


its the same thing in flight simulators, sure, you can pull all the moves the blue angels do without breaking a sweat, but in reality, you would be nearly blacking (or redding in some cases) out from +10G's and -4G's........

its just different, and some people seem not to realise that
 

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