Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

[Touring Mars]

via

The PM calls on the EU to "evolve" its Brexit position, saying MPs will veto the bloc's proposed Irish border solution.

"Evolve"

A bit of an unfortunate choice of word - of course, she doesn't really mean 'evolve' at all, but simply 'change' - however, despite my initial reaction, it might turn out to be more accurate than I first realised i.e. the EU may gradually shift its stance very gradually over the course of the next few million years, presumably in the hope that May and her Brexit plan will have gone extinct by then.

 

[_ApexPredator]

I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be less in hock to the EU?

 

[baldgye]

I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be less in hock to the EU?

And I was told (prior to the vote) that I was just pushing Project Fear nonsense, but here we are!

 

[Touring Mars]

here we are!

BBC Breakfast News joked the other day about the surprise news that sales of Super Noodles had 'inexplicably' risen by 50% in the last three months...

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/A...ds-uses-its-noodle-and-posts-quarterly-growth

 

[Touring Mars]

Theresa May faces the prospect that no Brexit deal can command a parliamentary majority, but neither can a 'no deal' exit. On the face of it, that would leave the UK either abandoning Brexit altogether (against the will of the British people) or begging the EU for an extension of the Article 50 process - something that they are under no obligation to do. By my reckoning, this puts the EU negotiators in an enormously strong position - they can basically demand whatever concessions they want in return for an extension to the Article 50 process, and force the UK down the 'worst of all worlds' route, which is full compliance with EU rules and jurisdiction and the loss of all voting rights and their veto.

And so it begins..

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...without-shift-in-uk-politics-say-eu-officials

EU sources say that an Article 50 extension will require a second referendum or a General Election

I forgot to mention in the quote above - the Norway model would also involve accepting the Free Movement of People - in other words, accepting the Norway model would be even worse than abandoning Brexit altogether - it would invoke rage among 52% of the voting population (who voted to Leave) and would/should be rejected by the 48% of voters who voted to Remain (on the basis that it is by far a worse deal than what we had i.e. no voting rights).

 

[baldgye]

And so it begins..

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...without-shift-in-uk-politics-say-eu-officials

EU sources say that an Article 50 extension will require a second referendum or a General Election

I forgot to mention in the quote above - the Norway model would also involve accepting the Free Movement of People - in other words, accepting the Norway model would be even worse than abandoning Brexit altogether - it would invoke rage among 52% of the voting population (who voted to Leave) and would/should be rejected by the 48% of voters who voted to Remain (on the basis that it is by far a worse deal than what we had i.e. no voting rights).

Adopting the Norway model, No-deal and no-Brexit would be against what people voted for

 

[Tired Tyres]

And so it begins..

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...without-shift-in-uk-politics-say-eu-officials

EU sources say that an Article 50 extension will require a second referendum or a General Election

I forgot to mention in the quote above - the Norway model would also involve accepting the Free Movement of People - in other words, accepting the Norway model would be even worse than abandoning Brexit altogether - it would invoke rage among 52% of the voting population (who voted to Leave) and would/should be rejected by the 48% of voters who voted to Remain (on the basis that it is by far a worse deal than what we had i.e. no voting rights).

A general election I can see. But another referendum? That stinks of abuse of power and a misuse of the democratic process.

 

[baldgye]

That stinks of abuse of power and a misuse of the democratic process.

That's an accurate description of a referendum, yeah

 

[Tired Tyres]

That's an accurate description of a referendum, yeah

So if a politician wants to adopt the Euro and puts it to the people and they vote NO. What happens? More campaigning and another vote. Still NO but less people vote. More campaigning and yet another vote. This time you get the snallest turn out of them all but YES wins. The Euro gets adopted. You don't see that as abuse of power? I'm impressed.

Of course that's just an example and couldn't ever really happen.

 

[Famine]

That stinks of abuse of power and a misuse of the democratic process.

Welcome to the EU.

 

[baldgye]

So if a politician wants to adopt the Euro and puts it to the people and they vote NO. What happens? More campaigning and another vote. Still NO but less people vote. More campaigning and yet another vote. This time you get the snallest turn out of them all but YES wins. The Euro gets adopted. You don't see that as abuse of power? I'm impressed.

This conversation is old and boring.
As has been covered many times... The way the Brexit referendum was carried out was wrong. If they had a vote on the Euro or anything else they need to carry it out properly, IE for a change to be carried over into parliament it should pass with a ~70% vote in favour of what ever it is.

You don't see that as abuse of power? I'm impressed.

What abuse of power are you even talking about?
If I had the ****ing power I wouldn't have held such an idiotic and toxic referendum in the first place, let alone desperately trying to make sure my country doesn't kill itself over racist and xenophobic principals...


What's funny about your example of the Euro, is that if we carry on and get no-deal, which is apparently the thing to do now, suicide no one wanted rather than admit fault... when we go begging back to the EU to be allowed in, that'll be one of the things they demand we do in order to re-join

 

[Tired Tyres]

This conversation is old and boring.
As has been covered many times... The way the Brexit referendum was carried out was wrong. If they had a vote on the Euro or anything else they need to carry it out properly, IE for a change to be carried over into parliament it should pass with a ~70% vote in favour of what ever it is.


What abuse of power are you even talking about?
If I had the ****ing power I wouldn't have held such an idiotic and toxic referendum in the first place, let alone desperately trying to make sure my country doesn't kill itself over racist and xenophobic principals...


What's funny about your example of the Euro, is that if we carry on and get no-deal, which is apparently the thing to do now, suicide no one wanted rather than admit fault... when we go begging back to the EU to be allowed in, that'll be one of the things they demand we do in order to re-join

You would have done if you were the leader of the Conservative party and you had to add it to the manifesto to keep the anti EU idiots in the party on your side.

 

[baldgye]

You would have done if you were the leader of the Conservative party and you had to add it to the manifesto to keep the anti EU idiots in the party on your side.

But I wouldn’t have bet my country and career on it. Cameron gambled away both due to incompetence and arrogance.

Reese-Mogg, the Tory lead Brexiter is a millionaire, moving his money and business abroad, telling people that they might not see the benefits for of Brexit for 50 years, while the government stop-piles food... who the **** voted for that?


You think another vote would be a gross abuse of power? THIS WHOLE THING HAS BEEN A GROSS ABUSE OF POWER

 

[Tired Tyres]

But I wouldn’t have bet my country and career on it. Cameron gambled away both due to incompetence and arrogance.

Reese-Mogg, the Tory lead Brexiter is a millionaire, moving his money and business abroad, telling people that they might not see the benefits for of Brexit for 50 years, while the government stop-piles food... who the **** voted for that?


You think another vote would be a gross abuse of power? THIS WHOLE THING HAS BEEN A CONSERVATIVE PARTY INTERAL DISAGREEMENT played out in public

Fixed for you.

 

[baldgye]

Fixed for you.

Not really though, I'd say good effort, but I'd be lying.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Not really though, I'd say good effort, but I'd be lying.

Just as I'd be lying to say anything in the post I replied to would be based in the real world. You think you could be Conservative leader and NOT be forced to compromise what you believe because, A your party would insist due to B needing to get the votes of the electorate?

Try Labour for how well that works.

A majority of Conservative voters voted LEAVE so they, at least, are understandable.

Labour voters voted to REMAIN. Why aren't they representing them and being an actual opposition on this? We still have May as PM after last week due to this stupidity.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Labour voters voted to REMAIN. Why aren't they representing them and being an actual opposition on this?

We know why - Corbyn was always anti-EU and as such has been very weak on the main party Remain line.

 

[baldgye]

Just as I'd be lying to say anything in the post I replied to would be based in the real world. You think you could be Conservative leader and NOT be forced to compromise what you believe because, A your party would insist due to B needing to get the votes of the electorate?

Try Labour for how well that works

This is a pretty odd assertion to try and make... I wouldn't be a very good Tory leader, despite voting for them more than once in a GE. But I don't think me wanting to follow good referendum practice, would be against the party?

A majority of Conservative voters voted LEAVE so they, at least, are understandable.

Labour voters voted to REMAIN. Why aren't they representing them and being an actual opposition on this? We still have May as PM after last week due to this stupidity.

Because that isn't true.
The majority of the House's constituents voted Leave, across both Tories and Labour.

Also, if you look at Labour, they are weak as ****. Their MP's hate Corbyn and the members love him, they aren't unified and they have no message. Hell when Cameron's dad was found to have been sneaking his money around in off-shore banks Corbyn was handed a really solid attack on the PM on a silver platter... and instead what happened, Labour got embroiled in an antisemitism issue, that's STILL ongoing... for the record I did vote for ol'Jez in the last GE, but he's a miserable leader.

 

[Tired Tyres]

This is a pretty odd assertion to try and make... I wouldn't be a very good Tory leader, despite voting for them more than once in a GE. But I don't think me wanting to follow good referendum practice, would be against the party?


Because that isn't true.
The majority of the House's constituents voted Leave, across both Tories and Labour.

Also, if you look at Labour, they are weak as ****. Their MP's hate Corbyn and the members love him, they aren't unified and they have no message. Hell when Cameron's dad was found to have been sneaking his money around in off-shore banks Corbyn was handed a really solid attack on the PM on a silver platter... and instead what happened, Labour got embroiled in an antisemitism issue, that's STILL ongoing... for the record I did vote for ol'Jez in the last GE, but he's a miserable leader.

I don't like to admit it...... But I voted Liberal Democrat last time. Can you imagine how I felt about two specific people last week?

 

[Touring Mars]

Jeremy Hunt inadvertently injects a little humour into proceedings as he makes overtures towards Germany...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-blame-eu-for-no-deal-brexit-says-jeremy-hunt

“Germany is not just one of Britain’s best friends in Europe, it’s one of our best friends in the world,” Hunt said at a press conference which contrasted with Boris Johnson’s frosty reception in Berlin in 2016. “Since 1945, Britain and Germany have stood shoulder to shoulder"

 

[Lizard]

Jeremy Hunt inadvertently injects a little humour into proceedings as he makes overtures towards Germany...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-blame-eu-for-no-deal-brexit-says-jeremy-hunt

I love that he thinks we will all blame the EU. Erm no I blame this government and its divisions.

 

[Liquid]

If we are waiting up to 50 years to see any benefits from Brexit that means that I, a horrible, sickly, whiny, snowflakey millennial and someone who was 25 when the referendum took place, will be 77 by the time we'll supposedly know for sure whether it was a good thing or a bad thing.

🤬 me, that's just not good enough.

 

[Dotini]

If we are waiting up to 50 years to see any benefits from Brexit that means that I, a horrible, sickly, whiny, snowflakey millennial and someone who was 25 when the referendum took place, will be 77 by the time we'll supposedly know for sure whether it was a good thing or a bad thing.

🤬 me, that's just not good enough.

The British Empire has been in decline for long, long time. Economic conditions for working men in the developed world are worsening due to technology and social/cultural changes. I really don't see how working men - or those on the dole - can expect good things to come.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The British Empire has been in decline for long, long time. Economic conditions for working men in the developed world are worsening due to technology and social/cultural changes. I really don't see how working men - or those on the dole - can expect good things to come.

You're a real ray of sunshine

 

[Dotini]

You're a real ray of sunshine

Well, I do try above all to be realistic. Economic prospects for men may not be great, but on the other hand, the quality and quantity of entertainment has never been better.

 

[baldgye]

The British Empire

 

[polysmut]

I can't believe they made 7 series of it.

Spoiler

 

[Imari]

Economic prospects for men may not be great, but on the other hand, the quality and quantity of entertainment has never been better.

One could even say that economic prospects for people may not be great, but who really cares about that entire other half of the world? Let's concentrate on the important part, the ones with a penis.

 

[TenEightyOne]

One could even say that economic prospects for people may not be great, but who really cares about that entire other half of the world? Let's concentrate on the important part, the ones with a penis.

Given that he also mentions the British Empire and 'the dole' I like to think that @Dotini was just speaking in Old Modern English and that we can extrapolate all of his terms to a period some fifty years later than he invoked

 

[baldgye]

Given that he also mentions the British Empire and 'the dole' I like to think that @Dotini was just speaking in Old Modern English and that we can extrapolate all of his terms to a period some fifty years later than he invoked

Or that actually women are worried that Brexit might erode some of the equality given by being part of a more open and fair society group of evil bureaucrats stealing money from the NHS