Bumper Camera Myth: Busted

[eran0004]

Myth to be tested

The in-game view commonly called "Bumper Camera" is a view positioned at roughly the same place as the car's front bumper. This gives a camera view close to the tarmac.

Empirical consequences
If the myth is true, we can expect to find that the bumper camera is:

• positioned lower than the interior camera
• positioned lower than the eye-height of the driver avatar
• positioned at the same height as the car's bumper

Method
To test this we need to be able to make accurate measurements, and in order to do that we need good points of reference. There are no rulers in the game, so instead we have to make up our own ruler, using the rules of perspective. One of the most basic one is that an object that is positioned at the same height as the eye-height of the observer will appear to be at the same height as the horizon when projected on a 2D-plane.

What we need then is a clear view of the horizon and objects of different height to compare with.

The track that came to my mind was Route X. The horizon is unobstructed and the barrier fence on the sides of the track has several horizontal lines at different height, which can easily be used as points of reference.

What I'll be comparing are:

• Camera Height
• Horizontal position left/right
• Field of view

The car I'm using is the RUF CTR "Yellow Bird", with suspension raised by 10 mm.

Results

1. Bumper camera.

Height: I was fortunate enough to find an excellent reference point in the top of the barrier fence, as it was perfectly aligned with the horizon. This means that the camera height of this view is positioned at the same height as the barrier fence. The transparent white cross runs from corner to corner and the x points out the center of the screen, which is right at the same height as the horizon. This means that the camera points straight forward and is not tilted up or down.

Horizontal position left/right: The point of reference used for this is the barrier shadow on the ground. Dividing the bottom length of the screen in 10 parts, the outline of the shadow (black line) crosses the bottom of the screen at roughly 2.9.

Field of view: For this measurement, a lamppost is selected as a point of reference. I drawed a vertical scale, where the lamp post height is 1.0, and the distance to the top of the screen is roughly 2.9.

2. Interior camera.

Height: The height is just the same as the bumper camera, with the top of the fence perfectly aligned with the horizon. As the transparent cross shows, the camera is still pointing straight forward.

Horizontal position left/right: The barrier shadow now cross the bottom of the screen at roughly 3.7. This means that the interior camera has moved to the left, compared to the bumper camera.

Field of view: With the scale adjusted so that the height of the lamppost remains at 1.0, the distance to the top of the screen is now 3.25. This means that the lamppost appears smaller than in the bumper camera picture and that the field of view as a consequence is wider in interior view than in bumper camera view.

3. External control camera.

To rule out the possibility of the interior camera simply being the bumper camera with an interior added to it, I took an external control shot to establish how high the barriers are compared to the car. After aligning the camera height perfectly to the top of the fence, this is the result: The top of the barrier crosses exactly at the same height as where the eyes of the driver avatar would be. As we know from the previous shot that the interior camera and bumper camera was positioned at the same height as the top of the barrier, we now know that it is also the same height as the driver avatar's eyes.

Conclusions

• Camera height is positioned at the eye-height of the driver avatar, in both interior view and bumper camera view.
• Horizontal position shifts to the left in interior view of a left-hand drive car. Bumper camera is most likely centered.
• Field of view is wider in interior view than in bumper camera. Note: This may only be true for a few cars. Other cars may have other field of view values in their interior views.

Validity for other cars than the RUF Yellowbird?
There is of course a chance that I was lucky enough to pick the only car in the game where the bumper camera isn't positioned on the bumper, but that chance is microscopic. However, there may be other cars in which the bumper camera is in fact positioned lower, and if you happen to suspect that such a car exists, please let me know and I'll be happy to test it. Unless it costs like 20 000 000 credits to purchase, because then I need to apply for research fundings.

Myth?
Busted. Bumper camera does not give you a viewpoint on the bumper of the car, close to the tarmac.
It may still be positioned further up front than the interior view, but it's not positioned closer to the ground.

Edit: Another test, described below, confirmed that the bumper camera is positioned further up front than the interior camera.

Edit 2: Actually, that other test shows that the bumper camera is positioned inside the car, right next to the driver.

 

[VBR]

A very interesting test, & well performed! 👍 Bumper cam does seem to give you a closer view than cockpit cam, that is; the camera does seem to be level with the bumper as in moved forward, but like you said, it's at the same height as the driver.

I've done tests where I pause the game & then cycle through camera positions (during a replay). You can accurately see what's going on that way.

I wonder if the view is different with different cars? I know that bonnet cam is different, some being higher & others lower than cockpit cam.

 

[hognhominy]

Excellent Thread!

to check for universal bumper height you could try Ram 1500 for the upper limit

 

[eran0004]

A very interesting test, & well performed! 👍 Bumper cam does seem to give you a closer view than cockpit cam, that is; the camera does seem to be level with the bumper as in moved forward, but like you said, it's at the same height as the driver.

I've done tests where I pause the game & then cycle through camera positions (during a replay). You can accurately see what's going on that way.

I wonder if the view is different with different cars? I know that bonnet cam is different, some being higher & others lower than cockpit cam.

It's hard to tell if the bumper camera is further up front than the interior camera, because the field of view is not the same. The interior view has a wider field of view, is more zoomed out, than the bumper camera. Although I suspect that the field of view is something that's different with different cars. In some interior views you can clearly see the side mirror, in others it's completely out of view. I'm not sure how to test how far up front the camera is. One possibility is to position the car so that a wall runs parallell to the field of view. In bumper cam you should then be able to see the face of the wall, while in the interior view it should be obstructed.

Edit: Like this.

 

[VBR]

Do a Free Run, then watch the replay with Drivers Eye View. Pause the replay & then change between Drivers Eye View & Normal View (aka Bumper Cam). I can't remember seeing any major FOV changes, I can see a difference in the camera position going forward & backwards though.

 

[eran0004]

Do a Free Run, then watch the replay with Drivers Eye View. Pause the replay & then change between Drivers Eye View & Normal View (aka Bumper Cam). I can't remember seeing any major FOV changes, I can see a difference in the camera position going forward & backwards though.

Yep, just tested what I described above, and bumper camera is positioned further up front than interior camera.

Edit: Nope, I was wrong! The bumper camera is actually positioned inside the car, right next to the driver! I'll provide photo evidence in a minute.

 

[JamboGT]

I didn't realise that people thought the "bumper camera" was actually a bumper camera, since the first GT its basically been at eye level of the driver for all cars, its even set back within the car a bit.

 

[eran0004]

Here is the car positioned exactly at the point where the wall facing "east" disappears out of sight of the bumper camera. I can still see the wall facing "south". If we extend the line of the "east" wall down to the car until it hits the center, we get the exact position of the bumper camera. From this photo it looks like that position is right next to the driver.

So what we've established so far:

• Bumper camera is positioned at the eye-height of the driver
• It's positioned in the center (presumeably, there's no reason to suspect it would be off-center)
• It's positioned right next to the driver
• The Yellow Bird is a good looking car!

Edit: Tested one of the karts. The results are the same as for the Yellow Bird, except that the "interior" camera tilts down a bit.

Edit 2: Sambabus tested. Same results, except that both interior and bumper camera seems to be at mouth-height rather than eye-height.

 

[GT5 Level 41]

Bumper cam "feels" closer to the road, at least it always has for me. I guess perception is reality. Say, roof cam is defiantly higher than eye level though, right? I always "feel" like I can see further up the road in roof cam.

 

[MatskiMonk]

It's typically been my impression that the interior view is just bumper cam with the interior overlaid, however, some cars do seem to have a stupidly low camera when in bumper cam leading me to believe it's not the same for all cars.

 

[BWX]

It was never a myth actually.. The only people that called it "bumper cam" were ones that were ignorant of the fact that it actually is a camera positioned inside the cockpit, without the cockpit there.

I prefer to think of it as a windshield cam, making the TV my windshield, but without the interior of the car blocking my view around the edges. I know that is not completely correct, as it is in the center of the car, and might be forward of the windshield in some circumstances, or on cars without a windshield at all, but you get the point.

Someone already has done extensive testing in GT4 and GT5 to prove it, somewhere on the forum. I already knew it using my observations of perspective, being an artist.

I use the "normal view" as I think it is officially called, almost exclusively. I would use the cockpit view if it was more customizable. I don't like the feeling of sitting in the back seat while driving, which is incorrect, as it is now in the cockpit view..

 

[eran0004]

Bumper cam "feels" closer to the road, at least it always has for me. I guess perception is reality. Say, roof cam is defiantly higher than eye level though, right? I always "feel" like I can see further up the road in roof cam.

Yeah, the roof camera is positioned higher up.

It's typically been my impression that the interior view is just bumper cam with the interior overlaid, however, some cars do seem to have a stupidly low camera when in bumper cam leading me to believe it's not the same for all cars.

There are some minor differences, such as field of view changes, and the "bumper camera" is centered while the interior camera is placed in front of the steering wheel.

I've tested three cars so far and the bumper camera has always been at the same height as the interior camera. It's not millimeter accurate, but it's roughly the same. If you have an example of a car where the bumper camera seems to be too low it will be interesting to test it.

 

[bodger]

I can't believe the OP has gone to so much bother with this.

It is just a convenient way of referring to the camera. I don't think it has ever been stated as being definitively being mounted on the bumper. In the bit you quote it even states 'roughly'.

I think in the game it is referred to as the 'standard view' or 'normal' (at least in the replay controls).

 

[VBR]

Nope, I was wrong! The bumper camera is actually positioned inside the car, right next to the driver! I'll provide photo evidence in a minute.

If that really is the case we'll have to rename it, "Invisible Car View"!

 

[eran0004]

I can't believe the OP has gone to so much bother with this.

It is just a convenient way of referring to the camera. I don't think it has ever been stated as being definitively being mounted on the bumper. In the bit you quote it even states 'roughly'.

I think in the game it is referred to as the 'standard view' or 'normal' (at least in the replay controls).

Well, it happens now and then that the bumper camera is being referred to as being close to the ground and at the front of the car. I've even seen it illustrated, where someone puts a little driver on the bumper and says that it's not where a driver would normally sit. So I thought I'd test it to find where it is actually positioned.

The bit I quoted is my own writing, I roughly summarized the myth I wanted to test

 

[GT5 Level 41]

Yeah, the roof camera is positioned higher up.

Phew, I don't think I could handle BWX calling me ignorant twice in one day.

 

[vasiliflame]

Great post

 

[R.S]

I think you sort of overcomplicated this test. The same could be gathered without any angles or numbers etc, just face the car square against a textured wall (like concrete) and use a tripod or capture card or photo mode to capture the different views.
You could tell a difference in camera positioning by where the texture now is in the center of the screen (assuming of course that the camera does not move forwards too far in the bumper position.) If the FOV changed this would be visible too.

Potentialy you could even measure it if we knew the scale of some sort of barrier on the track. Or even better, face another car because we have perfect measurements for this easily available, then we could actually measure hight of camera.

Biggest problem will be measuring the forwards position of the camera, I think it will be difficult to decipher this from simply differences in FOV. Unless you want to map the scene objects out in 3d and overlay the imges to measure. Precision will be an issue.

 

[eran0004]

I think you sort of overcomplicated this test. The same could be gathered without any angles or numbers etc, just face the car square against a textured wall (like concrete) and use a tripod or capture card or photo mode to capture the different views.
You could tell a difference in camera positioning by where the texture now is in the center of the screen (assuming of course that the camera does not move forwards hugely in the bumper position.) If the FOV changed this would be visible too.

Potentialy you could even measure it if we knew the scale of some sort of barrier on the track. Or even better, face another car because we have perfect measurements for this easily available, then we could actually measure hight of camera.

I think it was fairly simple. The horizon is a pretty good point of reference. If an object is below the horizon you know you're above it, and vice versa. If the object is dead on the the horizon, you're at the same height.

When it comes to determining how far in the front of the car the camera is positioned, with the test I did it's possible to pinpoint the exact position of the camera, because as we assume that the bumper camera is positioned somewhere along the centerline of the car, its position will be where the extended line of the wall meets the centerline of the car. I can't think of any other way to do it.

Looking at textures seems to be more complicated. It would be very difficult to measure wether the texture is appearing larger because of a change in the field of view, or because of a change in camera position. And even if it's possible to determine that it's because of a change in camera position, how do you pinpoint the exact position of the camera?

 

[Squanto]

Validity for other cars than the RUF Yellowbird?
There is of course a chance that I was lucky enough to pick the only car in the game where the bumper camera isn't positioned on the bumper, but that chance is microscopic. However, there may be other cars in which the bumper camera is in fact positioned lower, and if you happen to suspect that such a car exists, please let me know and I'll be happy to test it. Unless it costs like 20 000 000 credits to purchase, because then I need to apply for research fundings.

If you like a suggestion for a car to be tested ...
I would opt for the Lotus Europa as used in the GoodWood festival of speed ...
It had a problem in the first version of GT6, when switched to bumpercam, you would drive high above the ground like in a Tractor, they corrected it so I'm quite curious to know if they did it right this time... or just used the default height for it ...
(by the way: I assumed it was due to the car ... but it could well be event ánd car dependent as well.)

This error gave me the idea they would vary the height between eyes and tarmac for each car.

hognhominy 's suggestion for the RAM 1500 seems a valid test to me too.

But I also saw you already tested the Sambabus ... so the height should be considered a default height, Right?

Edit: maybe the Blocks on the first corner of Monza could be used for accurate reference values?

 

[Rod Carvalho]

Try testing a car like Mclaren F1 where the driver position is centered

 

[diptob79]

So what shall we call this view mode ?

 

[Squanto]

So what shall we call this view mode ?

Gearstickview?

 

[BWX]

I can't believe the OP has gone to so much bother with this.

It is just a convenient way of referring to the camera. I don't think it has ever been stated as being definitively being mounted on the bumper. In the bit you quote it even states 'roughly'.

I think in the game it is referred to as the 'standard view' or 'normal' (at least in the replay controls).

Yeah there were huge arguments about this in GT5. The "bumper cam" people were proved incorrect. The OP is completely correct.

Phew, I don't think I could handle BWX calling me ignorant twice in one day.

I don't remember calling anyone personally ignorant once, let alone twice.

I was referring to all the people who used to think it was an actual bumper cam, and wouldn't budge on that until proven wrong.. That was back in GT5. GT6 hasn't changed though. Those people were actually "ignorant".. The real definition of the term, not some backhanded insult.

So what shall we call this view mode ?

"normal view".. or I have referred to it as "so-called bumper cam".. just so people know what I am talking about and don't have to explain it every time, if talking about something else.

 

[iLex]

So what shall we call this view mode ?

"McLaren-F1-in-car-with-invisible-car-view"

"The view that shall not be named"

"The view formerly known as bumper cam" or TVFKABC


I prefer the term "bumper cam" though. I don't care where it's mounted.

 

[eran0004]

If you like a suggestion for a car to be tested ...
I would opt for the Lotus Europa as used in the GoodWood festival of speed ...
It had a problem in the first version of GT6, when switched to bumpercam, you would drive high above the ground like in a Tractor, they corrected it so I'm quite curious to know if they did it right this time... or just used the default height for it ...
(by the way: I assumed it was due to the car ... but it could well be event ánd car dependent as well.)

This error gave me the idea they would vary the height between eyes and tarmac for each car.

hognhominy 's suggestion for the RAM 1500 seems a valid test to me too.

But I also saw you already tested the Sambabus ... so the height should be considered a default height, Right?

The sambabus was higher up than the RUF, and the kart was lower. What was the same was that the bumper camera was the same height as the interior camera in all of those cars, which was roughly the same height as the eyes of the driver, or in the case of the Sambabus more like the height of the mouth.

I'll test the Lotus Europa tonight, and the RAM too. 👍

 

[gambleboyen]

Is the camera really named "Bumper Cam"? Isn't it "front view" or something like that?

 

[eran0004]

Is the camera really named "Bumper Cam"? Isn't it "front view" or something like that?

No. It's more like "more famously known as bumper cam". The proper name is probably standard view, or something like that.

 

[zargdin]

Yes, I have always had the idea that the "bumper cam" is in fact a virtual driver's eye view, without the bonnet etc being visible. The OP has gone to great lengths to show this, but common sense/experience also shows it to be true.
When you drive in any vehicle, your POV is on the same level as the cockpits of the other vehicles, not their bumpers.
Drive a truck, and you are looking down on other vehicles.

This started with the original Gran Turismo on PS1, maybe in the days when racing games didn't bother with complex visuals.

I quite like the actual bonnet view which you get in Forza, but the classic Gran Turismo view has advantages. In many ways, it is truer to life, because when you actually are driving, all you really "see" is the road ahead. This is where your centre of vision is, the bonnet is in your peripheral vision. However when you play a driving game, the entire TV screen is in the centre of your vision, including the view of the bonnet (if this view is available in the game).

This difference between real driving vision and game driving vision is even more apparent when using the cockpit view.
In real life you don't see, or at least are not visually aware of, your own hands on the steering wheel, and all the other detail. So in a way, the cockpit view is the least realistic of all, although I know that a lot of guys prefer it. It must be even more incongruous when you play with a wheel, to see another steering wheel in front of you.

I think that Forza has the option of a view which is similar to the classic GT view.

 

[hognhominy]

"The view formerly known as bumper cam" or TVFKABC

May I suggest