Bumper Camera Myth: Busted

[zzz_pt]

bumper camera view is now rearview mirror camera view

 

[StirlingMoose]

I quite like the actual bonnet view which you get in Forza, but the classic Gran Turismo view has advantages. In many ways, it is truer to life, because when you actually are driving, all you really "see" is the road ahead. This is where your centre of vision is, the bonnet is in your peripheral vision. However when you play a driving game, the entire TV screen is in the centre of your vision, including the view of the bonnet (if this view is available in the game).

This difference between real driving vision and game driving vision is even more apparent when using the cockpit view.
In real life you don't see, or at least are not visually aware of, your own hands on the steering wheel, and all the other detail. So in a way, the cockpit view is the least realistic of all, although I know that a lot of guys prefer it. It must be even more incongruous when you play with a wheel, to see another steering wheel in front of you.

I agree. Although cockpit view is a more realistic representation of what you see from inside the car, standard view is closer to what you perceive. I think cockpit view only really works if you are sitting close to a very large screen, so the interior is in your peripheral vision.

 

[Tired Tyres]

What myth is this thread about? It's always been a first person view. I though everybody has known that since GT1?

 

[TomatoFK]

What about the Red Bull formula cars? or cars with open top? Great thread btw.

 

[Lawndart]

This is great, we need more of this kind of results based findings on GTP.

As one who does in fact align all my hardware to be as close to real, But the best position would be the TV over the front axels if your feet are at the bottom of a 42" screen... This is a leading reason I desire a proper hood cam...

 

[HuskyGT]

Nice explanation. Someone did something similar back in the GT5P days.

I respect that some people like it, but I still feel bumper cam is kind of pointless. Not only you don't see what you're driving, but if you add that some cars sound wrong, then it comes to the point where you don't even know what you're diving anymore. It's like sitting in an invisible car while you're invisible as well.

I rather use the even more unrealistic chase cam, since at least I can see the car and enjoy its looks and sounds(if sound is right).

The idea is seeing the car to enjoy it better and feel the immersion. This is something only cockpit view gives you, even though it is kind of limited since you don't have peripheral view or any sense of depth. Still, something that your senses easily get used to.

 

[Thematic]

I rather use the even more unrealistic chase cam, since at least I can see the car and enjoy its looks and sounds(if sound is right).

I would only use this in a replay. Track (ahead) & car makes for two focal points which I think is my issue with it. I forget which games also do not chase the car per frame, introducing horrible lag.

The idea is seeing the car to enjoy it better and feel the immersion. This is something only cockpit view gives you, even though it is kind of limited since you don't have peripheral view or any sense of depth. Still, something that your senses easily get used to.

I use a wheel and was never disturbed by the pixel wheel. I'm not watching that, I only glance at some datas when needed. My TV is a "desktop" size and slightly over an arms length from my eyes.

 

[eran0004]

Alright, tried the RAM and the Red Bull Junior. Same results, the standard view is positioned at the eye-height of the driver. In the Red Bull car it was positioned right where the driver is, while in the RAM it was positioned next to driver, along the centerline. With 5 cars of different kind tested and the result being the same for everyone, I think it's safe to assume that the result is going to be the same for all cars in the game.

 

[eSZee]

Didn't @amar212 do something like this a few years back?

 

[CeeJay]

I remember a big argument about this when GT5 came out. I still call it the bumper cam!

 

[HuskyGT]

I would only use this in a replay. Track (ahead) & car makes for two focal points which I think is my issue with it. I forget which games also do not chase the car per frame, introducing horrible lag.

Chase cam in GT4/GT5/GT6 has become quite bad, I must admit. Always miss the apex, and it's really hard to countersteer. It's too stiff. Only use it when playing split screen with a friend. If it was like in GT3 I would use it more.

 

[whereSTheFUhd]

Gearstickview?

Ouch.

 

[Squanto]

Ouch.

--don't try this at home--

 

[Glenalz81]

This is great, we need more of this kind of results based findings on GTP.

As one who does in fact align all my hardware to be as close to real, But the best position would be the TV over the front axels if your feet are at the bottom of a 42" screen... This is a leading reason I desire a proper hood cam...

Agreed! proper bonnet cam would be good.One that doesn't feel like your perched on the roof! I like the cockpit view but find seeing two steering wheels makes you feel like your sitting in the back of the car.So i use the gearstick/centre/bumpercam instead..I wouldn't mind seeing an interior view with good bonnet cam a nice dash and no hands and steering wheel..i have my own hands and own wheel! 👍

 

[snowgt]

It's nice that someone took the time to verify it, but that was one of the first things that occurred to me when I started playing GT6. In GT5 the bumper view was actually at the height of the bumper (although as far back as cockpit view so the car's nose was invisible), and in GT6 it's identical in height to cockpit view.

I'm glad they changed it - the improved "bumper"-view offers the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

 

[iLex]

I respect that some people like it, but I still feel bumper cam is kind of pointless. Not only you don't see what you're driving, but if you add that some cars sound wrong, then it comes to the point where you don't even know what you're diving anymore. It's like sitting in an invisible car while you're invisible as well.

I usually remember what I'm driving
The distinctly different feel to cars is enough for me to enjoy the different cars. I don't have to see the interior.
Furthermore, as stated above, the in car cam just doesn't give the right view if you are more than just a foot or 2-3 from the screen.
All subjective of course.

It's nice that someone took the time to verify it, but that was one of the first things that occurred to me when I started playing GT6. In GT5 the bumper view was actually at the height of the bumper (although as far back as cockpit view so the car's nose was invisible), and in GT6 it's identical in height to cockpit view.

I'm glad they changed it - the improved "bumper"-view offers the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

I am pretty sure it was at the same height in GT5.

 

[srefre]

So assuming the camera is in the centre of the wind shield, if your screen is large enoug (maybe 42"+) and set your wheel up so that it was not centred to your screen but off to one side (depending on LHD\RHD) how close are you to being in a reasonably accurate position to real life?

 

[iLex]

So assuming the camera is in the centre of the wind shield, if your screen is large enoug (maybe 42"+) and set your wheel up so that it was not centred to your screen but off to one side (depending on LHD\RHD) how close are you to being in a reasonably accurate position to real life?

On a scale of love to christmas I'd say…. banana.

The big problem with bumper cam is that you can see a lot more of the road than you would see in a normal car. You can actually (almost?) see your (invisible) front wheels go over the apex. In that respect in car view is a more realistic approach. However, as long as you are not touching your TV with your nose (and having the car itself in your peripheral vision as stated above), in car view gives an odd representation as well.

It is all a trade off.

I'd say the most realistic view is close to your screen (preferably three screens) in in car view.

Anything else has more flaws (when it comes to realism).


I personally prefer bumper cam. In car just feels weird since I got my G27 and new TV.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

It's never been a "bumper" or "ant" cam. It has always been from the cockpit with an invisible interior. Which is why I call it "first person". Right before GT5 released there was a video with a Subby rally car that hit a movable obstacle. The large piece of foam landed on the hood of the car. While the driver was in FPS view, it looked like it was floating. But when he switched to the cockpit and in the replay, we clearly saw that it was resting on the hood/bonnet of the car. This myth was laid to rest years ago. It irritates me like nails on a chalk board when people say "bumper cam" when referring to GT. Other games, yes it is from the bumper.

Very nice work though!!!

 

[eran0004]

So assuming the camera is in the centre of the wind shield, if your screen is large enoug (maybe 42"+) and set your wheel up so that it was not centred to your screen but off to one side (depending on LHD\RHD) how close are you to being in a reasonably accurate position to real life?

The effect you'll achieve is that you're sitting in the middle of the car, looking to the side. So I'm afraid it's not very close.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

The outer edges of the gushes are actually the left and right sides of the car. So, every car you drive is essentially a McLaren F1.

The cockpit view obstructs too much of the road compared to driving a real car. In a real car, the road is 99% of your view. In games, the road is about 40% of the screen. Now, if you are an NBA "baller" and drive from the back seat, then the cockpit view in games will be realistic. Yes, GT6 gives us 3 seat positions, none of which seem right to me until SONY gets eye tracking right so we can check our mirrors at a glance like in a real car.

 

[Glenalz81]

How hard would it be to introduce a customize your own view....like the screen adjuster???

camera level up/down left/right
car interior aspect- zoom in/out

I reckon if this was the case it could suit everyone.

and i know you can adjust interior via menu standard/narrow/narrower.

the same just with a bit more freedom.

 

[eran0004]

The outer edges of the gushes are actually the left and right sides of the car. So, every car you drive is essentially a McLaren F1.

The cockpit view obstructs too much of the road compared to driving a real car. In a real car, the road is 99% of your view. In games, the road is about 40% of the screen. Now, if you are an NBA "baller" and drive from the back seat, then the cockpit view in games will be realistic. Yes, GT6 gives us 3 seat positions, none of which seem right to me until SONY gets eye tracking right so we can check our mirrors at a glance like in a real car.

It doesn't obstruct the road it as much as it shrinks it. The view is probably positioned at the correct spot, but the field of view is too big (zoomed out). You can change field of view in the settings though, so it's easy to correct. The problem you run into then is that you don't see so much around the car. As long as you have a single screen setup there's no way to get around this dilemma.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It doesn't obstruct the road it as much as it shrinks it. The view is probably positioned at the correct spot, but the field of view is too big (zoomed out). You can change field of view in the settings though, so it's easy to correct. The problem you run into then is that you don't see so much around the car. As long as you have a single screen setup there's no way to get around this dilemma.

How hard would it be to introduce a customize your own view....like the screen adjuster???

camera level: up/down left/right...car interior: aspect- zoom in/out...and i know you can adjust interior via menu standard/narrow/narrower...the same just with a bit more freedom.

@eran0004, meet @Glenalz81

You're right - the option (within a sensible limited range) to adjust the POV would be great. If they included a LHD/RHD POV swap for the standard cars that would be even better!

 

[Squanto]

It's nice that someone took the time to verify it, but that was one of the first things that occurred to me when I started playing GT6. In GT5 the bumper view was actually at the height of the bumper (although as far back as cockpit view so the car's nose was invisible), and in GT6 it's identical in height to cockpit view.

I'm glad they changed it - the improved "bumper"-view offers the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

We should test this ... but I think you're right ... as far as I remember ... it felt closer to the tarmac in GT5

 

[BWX]

I think the correct term in "normal view".

That is what it is listed as in the replay camera selection menu. Not very descriptive though.

 

[Beat the Beat]

Also note that the car's shadow is missing in 'bumper' view, probably because it would look really weird when it's underneath an invisible car. A real bumper view would look fine with a shadow.
I wish they'd do a proper bumper view and put in a bonnet/hood cam as a replacement for the current one.

 

[celticfc]

I think we should have windshield/windscreen view. That way we would not have to see the steering wheel but could still see the front of the car for more accurate maneuvering in tight spaces such as parking and driving through London etc. It would also be good for doing the autox portion of the license tests and as stated earlier we could position our peripherals to either the left right or center depending on the vehicle being used.

Discuss.

 

[Uncle Harry]

This myth was busted way back in GT3 days.

The bumper cam view is an in car view without the windshield pillars or bonnet/ hood shown.

Easy to test , Park up against a wall, from the Bumper Cam view you see a gap between the wall and the car.
Go to he chase view and you will see the car is against the wall.

 

[subsist]

there are 3 settings for cockpit view, normal, narrow and narrowest, each changing the FOV a little each time to a smaller degree.

Id be interested to see how bumper lines up with the other 2 cockpit settings as I use the Narrow setting for an incar view more closer resembling the FOV of bumper view.