Bush for 2004! (yeah, right)

[Arwin]

In my humble opinion (and I mean that honestly), 'defeating' terrorists is largely a matter of PR. The U.S. government understands this on the government level and puts a lot of pressure on governments to cooperate. But very few governments have absolute power, and so you will also need the support of the people.

Terrorists are generally only successful because they get support from the locals and have a large social and political network, and the reason they don't die out is because when they are killed, there are enough supporting relatives, friends and so on who take over. People that die for a cause are often very convincing, as the people close to them generally don't want to believe they died for nothing.

I say take away a terrorists reason for existence, their local support, and then and only then do they become mere criminals that can be taken out of the equation without setting too much new bad blood. There's a thin line between justice, revenge and outright aggression, and each of them has a strong tendency of coming back at you.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Rally, let me prepare you for what you are going to hear in response from milefile:

First, he'll tell you you're on drugs, in so many words. Then, he'll reinforce his ideology about fighting fire with fire instead of with water. It will never end with him or others like him, which is why America is still in this war. You might as well go yell at a rock in your garden, because you will never get anywhere with him. All we can do is continue to oppose the war and if Islam ever mobilizes and strikes back with equal force, hope we survive the holocaust.

War is still war as much as we'd like to think things have changed since 1945.

Umm, no it isn't. No nation alone can defeat the United States at the present, WHICH IS WHY YOU HAVE TERRORISTS KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR!

I think George Carlin said it best when he said America's real job in the world is BOMBING BROWN PEOPLE. But of course he's just a comedian, right milefile? Well, he's also two other things: an American, and absolutely right.

 

[milefile]

And things have vastly changed since 1945. Back then, it was easy to tell who was and was not the enemy. But in this war on terror, we don't know who specifically the enemy is.

The enemy is radical militant Islam. It's very simple. Kill them.

 

[Anderton Prime]

The enemy is radical militant Islam. It's very simple. Kill them.

Say, that's a nice shovel you've got there. If I'm not mistaken, that's the IGNORANCE2000, great for digging yourself into a hole. How deep have you got it anyway?

I believe you might want to look at the possibilty that America's "enemy" is America herself.

 

[king jame II]

Well fellas, i thought id share a vid w/ ya'll on why Bush will be re-elected come November.

http://www.muchosucko.com/video-karrygoesbothways.html

Simple, to the point, and factual. Oh, yea, i'm still voting for Bush.
James-

 

[Anderton Prime]

Bush will be re-elected come November.

Then I'd better buy my radiation suit and my 10 rolls of duct tape now!

 

[Ev0]

The enemy is radical militant Islam. It's very simple. Kill them.

You completely missed my point. It is very hard to separate the radical militant muslims from the majority of peace loving muslims since they blend in with the population. This is the basis of guerilla warfare, something which they are doing very well, much like the Viet Cong, a fighting force that defeated the US. It's a shame we don't learn from our mistakes.

 

[milefile]

what a pitty..............this is really pathetic. milefile you are a disgrace to political debating. how old are you son, 12,13, because if you'r over 18 then you are a shame to society with such anology.
this is what you said, and i quote:"One way to fight them is for every non-combatant they decapitate nuke a villiage in Iran. For every Suicide bomber take out a city block in Mecca." milefile.
are you out of your mind, who have you been listening to. hold on, under your avitar it says you live in caucasia which means your white. but not any white, your the whites who are confinded to the town they live in and are afraid to get out because they will feel lost and powerless. and the only policy they beleive in is the policy of revenge. are the 1000+ soldiers who died in iraq, that's what the goverment is proclaiming i'm sure there are thousands more, worth the freedom that our goverment is promising the iraqis. from the way things are, it doesn't seem that they want to be freed by us.
do you know anything about the iraqi history or about it's people, these people need some one like saddam hussein. it's like a can of worms the U.S. have opened, shiats are raging so are the sunis, and then we have the other relegious factions who are doing damage to our troops but they are not grabbing headlines because they are not as big as the first two but they are getting there and they vary from christians, to tawehedien another islamic faction, to beleive it or not iraqi jews who are laying low for the time being. iraq is like a melting pot that our intelligence failed to recognise. all in all, and like the intelligence committe concluded last week, iraqs situation is not inviting and it's heading to a civil war. our troops pull out of there and these people will start killing each other.
arabs have a saying that i know:"i stand with my brother against my cousin, and i will stand with my cousin against the enemy" and this is true, they will kill each other if no one interfeers, but if someone like the U.S. steps in they will stand together against theire common enemy. and that's what's going on right now in iraq. there are 2 billion muslims around the world, that's 46% of the worlds population, do you think if the U.S. blows something in Mecca which is the holiest shrine in islam, these 2 billion will do nothing.
and you mentioned something about iran. excuse my language, but are you stupid or what? we have afghanistan, iraq, the israeli conflict, N. Korea which by the way posses nuclear wepons and we went aftr iraq instead, our interests in asia bein attacked, the threat of the new sleeping giant China, our deteriating relationship in europe, and our commitment to fighting terrorists around the world, and the so called coalition which is breaking down by each paaing day, and now you want to add iran to the whole equation..................
what else should i also mention, the economy the job losses, our national debt, illegal immegrants, what else can you aimply think of adding. yeah will nuke all of them. mphhhh how pathetic.

Does this mean we can't be friends?

Seriously, though... do you really think I'm going to read that? Your keyboard has the ****s.

 

[Ev0]

Then I'd better buy my radiation suit and my 10 rolls of duct tape now!

I don't think I'd go as far as that, but I certainly wouldn't predict good things for the world if Bush was reelected.

 

[king jame II]

Anderton, i expected a much wittier comeback from you on that statement.

Watch that vid.
James-

 

[milefile]

Rally, let me prepare you for what you are going to hear in response from milefile:

First, he'll tell you you're on drugs, in so many words. Then, he'll reinforce his ideology about fighting fire with fire instead of with water. It will never end with him or others like him, which is why America is still in this war. You might as well go yell at a rock in your garden, because you will never get anywhere with him. All we can do is continue to oppose the war and if Islam ever mobilizes and strikes back with equal force, hope we survive the holocaust.

Umm, no it isn't. No nation alone can defeat the United States at the present, WHICH IS WHY YOU HAVE TERRORISTS KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR!

I think George Carlin said it best when he said America's real job in the world is BOMBING BROWN PEOPLE. But of course he's just a comedian, right milefile? Well, he's also two other things: an American, and absolutely right.

I see. You respond to others instead of me because you have nothing but predictions of doom and gloom to back you up. Makes sense. Stick with those who agree and avoid those that don't. It's only natural, for people who are wrong.

And the terrorists are actually knocking at Spain's door, and Australia's door, and Russia's door. They haven't knocked on our door in over three years.

 

[Duke]

Anderton, would you care to explain just how effective France's method of solving this issue has been? At least two French journalists have been beheaded. So is their method doing them any good?

 

[Anderton Prime]

Seriously, though... do you really think I'm going to read that? Your keyboard has the ****s.

Even in the midst of this debate, I can still recognise when something's funny. Good one, milefile. No sarcasm.

 

[Arwin]

Anderton, would you care to explain just how effective France's method of solving this issue has been? At least two French journalists have been beheaded. So is their method doing them any good?

I think you haven't really been paying attention, do you know anything about the background of this at all? Whatever France's motives, I'd say yes, their method has done them a lot of good, both in France and in the Middle-East. France has a very large Muslim population and they stood as one nation, openly showing themselves to be French democrats by stating that they recognise only the legal and democratic political system of France in these matters. France also received a lot of support from within Iraq and the nations surrounding it in this crisis. If anything, these veteran French journalists wer the victims of the chaos and anarchy the coalition forces have reduced Iraq too.

I don't have a lot of respect for the current French government (Chirac in particular), but I do honestly think you've assessed the success of the French approach completely wrong. And so did the kidnappers/murderers.

 

[Danoff]

but I do honestly think you've assessed the success of the French approach completely wrong.

Care to list these "successes"?

 

[Arwin]

Care to list these "successes"?

I'm sorry if my English is rusty. Which of the two successes I listed above did I not spell out clearly enough? The French democracy getting support from all the Muslim organisations within France, or the French government getting widespread support throughout the Middle East?

 

[milefile]

Seems to me that some Muslims kidnapped a couple Frenchmen to protest France's ban on "conspicuous religious clothing", which means Muslim girls wearing headscarves to school. Actually, protest is not the right word. It was terroristic blackmail. I'm pretty sure the Muslim organizations in France aren't particularly happy about this law either..

You should like this source.

Is that one of the successes?

 

[Danoff]

Which of the two successes I listed above did I not spell out clearly enough? The French democracy getting support from all the Muslim organisations within France, or the French government getting widespread support throughout the Middle East?

So that's the big accomplishment? What is meant by "support" here?

We could gain "support" with the terrorists if we wanted. We'd just say, he guys come blow up all of our buildings. We're making a forced national religion for you and changing our system of government. We want to be just like you, look, we're even making our women cover up and walk behind us...

It would be easy to gain "support" with the terrorists. We'd just have to cave.

 

[Arwin]

You should like this source.

Is that one of the successes?

Someone here on the forum claimed 'look what good it has done to France, two guys kidnapped etc." I think this article you quote yourself alone shows how misplaced that comment is.

 

[Duke]

PARIS (September 9) - The two French journalists kidnapped in Iraq more than three weeks back are still in captivity despite efforts by French and Iraqi leaders to secure their freedom.

Christian Chesnot and Georges Malbrunot were kidnapped Aug. 20 by the so-called Islamic Army in Iraq, a guerrilla group opposing the U.S. occupation of the country. The group at first asked the French government by way of ransom to annul the law banning "conspicuous" religious symbols from schools. These symbols have come to mean primarily the headscarf for Muslim girls. The law came into force Sept. 2.

The group then followed up with three new demands – the "acceptance of a truce with Sheikh Osama bin Laden", a sum of $5 million, and a refusal by the French government to have military or commercial relations with the U.S.-appointed Iraqi regime.

It was I who made that commment. Please explain how this invalidates my question. These radical militant Muslims believe that they can extort the French government into compliance with their policy demands by brutally sacrificing innocent French lives.

How well is the policy of appeasement and compromise working for the French government? Just about as well as it worked for the British government in 1938.