Cadillac isn't for old folks anymore?

[boombexus]

Have ya seen Cadillac's line of cars and trucks recently? They really must be trying to shake that image of old people driving there cars.

I mean, you got all the R+B and rap stars talking about there Escalade's on 24's. I can't count the amount of them I see on the roads nowadays. Check out the ESV Platinum edition. Stock 20" chrome wheels. DVD's and LCD screen abound. 1st, 2nd and 3rd row screens.

And this feature, kicks everyones ass:

"Yet another unique feature, the only vehicle with factory-installed front heated/cooled beverage holders. Now, the driver and front passenger can enjoy the luxury of a hot or cold beverage that stays that way."

Have ya seen the new CTS-V. Out to smoke the BMW M3 with it's 5.7L V8 making 400 HP and 395 ft-lb torque. Taking it from 0 to 60 in a claimed 4.6 seconds. I want this car!!!
Don't see grandma and grandpa driving this car anywhere.

Check out this car, the XLR. Starting at $72,000 USD. Very stylish IMO.

What really shocked me was Cadillac's concept cars. Wether these cars ever see production or not, just the mere fact that someone at Cadillac could conceive of something like this amazes me.

The Sixteen: A V16 making 1000HP!!! Rolls on 24's. Four wheel steering.

I definately like the direction Cadillac seems to be headed in. I'll certainly be keeping my eye on them. How do you envision the Cadillac name plate? Like's or dislikes?

 

[TheCanuck]

Is that 72 000$ US? That's a lot of money for what is basically a Corvette, with less a sporty feeling.

 

[Frustrated Palm]

Well, the XLR is based alot on the Vette, though it is its own car. C&D does think that the tires are just a little too...."thin" for the car (so do I). The CTS looks really cool, I always liked the styling, though the first ones were lacking in power (now with a little boosted power, it moves it from slow to reasonable), but now the CTS-V, wow, I'll take one please ...

 

[div]

hey everybody!! i really enjoy cadillac

my dad sold his CTS 2 weeks ago to buy a WRX STI

and oh well the cadillac CTS has ton of potential

awesome suspension not too hard not too soft

great acceleration and an awesome 5 speed getrag automatic transmission!!

awesome!

 

[T13R]

The CTS is really ugly, I like the other two tho. I dont think the CTS-V will smoke M3's but you can always hope. ( The M3 is gonna be getting the 5.0L V8 of 400 hp from the current M5 soon )

 

[-Fred-]

You do realise that for 20 000$ less than the XLR, you can get a Z06? It's just not worth that much, what the hell were they thinking!

 

[boombexus]

Originally posted by PunkRock
You do realise that for 20 000$ less than the XLR, you can get a Z06? It's just not worth that much, what the hell were they thinking!

True, but price aside, (cus I'm nowhere close to being able to buy in the $70K range.) I personally find that XLR more appealing than the Corvette. I'd rather be driving that Cadillac rather than the Z06 that everyone else seems to have.

The CTS is really ugly, I like the other two tho. I dont think the CTS-V will smoke M3's but you can always hope. ( The M3 is gonna be getting the 5.0L V8 of 400 hp from the current M5 soon )

Well, if BMW is putting that engine into the M3 then the CTS-V might not be waliking all over it. But you do have to admit that Cadillac raised the anty with it's car.

 

[mr_pushrod]

Originally posted by T13R
I dont think the CTS-V will smoke M3's but you can always hope.

Actually, the CTS-V has proved to be faster than the M3 around Nordsclieffe

 

[MazKid]

If you look at commercials from both Caddy and Buick, the drivers are all young to middle age(like 35). Sorry, but 95% of those cars that I see have drivers atleast 60 years old.

Good idea to shake that image, but it won't happen.

Ohh, and the Escalade is just a Suburban with some more options and thousands of dollars added to the price. But it's a Caddy.

Bleh. I hate most everything from GM.

 

[div]

ahah lol mazkid....ur all speaking against cady

but my dad won agaisnt an audi S4 in an illegal drag race9dont ask me detials) so i think u guys all underestimate the power of a cadillac

another thing mazkid

the new 260hp cadillac cts would crush ur (word that goes against the AUP) GIRLISH CAR that the 323 is!!!!! beurk!!!!!!

sorry but u guys who cant see the good in cars i hate that

ur jsut a mazda guy

aint got nothign agaisnt mazda i love mazdas but come on ...accept that their is some other cars that beat mazda!

Edited by MazKid - Please don't go around the swear filter.

 

[MazKid]

You are such a twitface it isn't funny.

First off, I know and accept that the 323 is slow, but it drives great and I love it, and it's not and never was a girlish car. 2nd, yea the brand new caddy will crush virtually everything from Mazda from '88, you can't really compare the 2. 3rd, NEVER in my post above did I ever say anything about Mazda.

Ohh, and you clearly broke the AUP so now I get to edit your post. Do it again and I might just ban you.

 

[T13R]

Originally posted by mr_pushrod
Actually, the CTS-V has proved to be faster than the M3 around Nordsclieffe

Im not saying I dont believe you... but I would just like to know where you find this type of info. I like to see these types of comparisons. Still doesnt change the fact thats its an ugly car though.

And to Boom, yep the anty has been consistantly rising for some time now! The horsepower war seems to be never ending... benefitting us the consumers I mean come on... you have family sedans now capable of putting to shame true sports cars.

 

[T13R]

double post....

 

[Hyundai Racer]

A Cadillac or Lincoln truck are the stupidest things ever, so is the Porsche and whatever new SUVs made by manufacturers just jumping in the bandwagon. The only thing they are good for is large volume sales so that manufacturers can finance less sold but more interesting cars (like the other new Cadillacs, for example).

Say no to Escalators and Navigades!

 

[1mic]

how many people 25 and below can really afford these cars?
and isnt the 16 just a concept..?
if it was to be made good luck with the gas mileage/ gas PRICES

 

[mr_pushrod]

Originally posted by T13R Im not saying I dont believe you... but I would just like to know where you find this type of info. I like to see these types of comparisons.

I read this info first in a British car magazine called Evo although it has bee in other mags as well. Doesn't seem like an M3 is that hard to beat though, a Porsche Cayenne Turbo was as fast round one track in a test in Evo.

 

[ZEE]

Is that 72 000$ US? That's a lot of money for what is basically a Corvette, with less a sporty feeling.

Its true, m8 the XLR is just an ripp off infiniti G35 sedan, pratically the same chassis and wheelbase. Cadillac r just becoming desprate to get sales in the Luxury sedan sector.

 

[///M-Spec]

I grew up and fell in love with cars in the 80s. This decade was pretty much the low point in Cadillac's (and GM's) history... so naturally GM has a lot of ground to make up for with people in my age group.

The Caddys from my youth were massive luxo-barges and catered to people who didn't particularly care about driving. The products that strayed from the core luxo-barge philosophy met with resounding failure. Witness the snoozer Alante and hope-no-one-knows-I'm-just-a-J-body Cimarron. So naturally, yet another attempt to change their market appeal is met with years of prejudice. Unfortunately, people 30 to 45 are exactly who GM needs to buy the new Caddys.

Thus, despite knowing and understanding everything that goes into the V-line of cars, I'm still skeptical.

As a BMW M3 competitor, the weight of the CTS-V (3800 lbs) is waaay short of the mark. The M3 is 3450, and even that is too much for some people. Manufactuers sometimes use laps times at the Nordschliffe for marketing reasons, but you really need to take these numbers into context --the amount of weather variables in the Eiffel Mountains makes lap time comparisons almost useless unless run on the same day, same time.

As an Audi S4, M-B C32 or even M5 competitor, it makes more sense... especially given the price.

Bottom line is: GM has years of bad history to make up for.. and the Germans have been making these kinds of cars for far, far longer. It will take much time to catch up... but at least this time, they are headed in the right direction.


On the V8 powered M3: The V8 should bow at least 1 model year after the next generation 3 series (E90) shows up in 2005 as an '06. The sedan will remain the M3, while the 2 door Coupe will be called the M4.

It is most likely that the displacement be 4.0 liters and not 4.9 as in the current M5. That would tie in with the size of the M3 GTR engine and maximum displacement for GT cars under ACO rules. I suspect the basic design of the S62 (E39 M5 engine) will be retained, but the new unit be a much higher reving engine. Venturing on a limb, I'd say 4.0 liters, 425 hp @ 8200 rpm.


///M-Spec

 

[frestkd]

GM has one thing going for them, It's Robert A. Lutz. Good old Bobby use to work for BMW, and one of the people that started BMW Motorsports. That where BMW use to make thier cars that had little Ms on them.

Kristof

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
I grew up and fell in love with cars in the 80s. This decade was pretty much the low point in Cadillac's (and GM's) history... so naturally GM has a lot of ground to make up for with people in my age group.

The Caddys from my youth were massive luxo-barges and catered to people who didn't particularly care about driving. The products that strayed from the core luxo-barge philosophy met with resounding failure. Witness the snoozer Alante and hope-no-one-knows-I'm-just-a-J-body Cimarron. So naturally, yet another attempt to change their market appeal is met with years of prejudice. Unfortunately, people 30 to 45 are exactly who GM needs to buy the new Caddys.

Thus, despite knowing and understanding everything that goes into the V-line of cars, I'm still skeptical.

As a BMW M3 competitor, the weight of the CTS-V (3800 lbs) is waaay short of the mark. The M3 is 3450, and even that is too much for some people. Manufactuers sometimes use laps times at the Nordschliffe for marketing reasons, but you really need to take these numbers into context --the amount of weather variables in the Eiffel Mountains makes lap time comparisons almost useless unless run on the same day, same time.

As an Audi S4, M-B C32 or even M5 competitor, it makes more sense... especially given the price.

Bottom line is: GM has years of bad history to make up for.. and the Germans have been making these kinds of cars for far, far longer. It will take much time to catch up... but at least this time, they are headed in the right direction.


On the V8 powered M3: The V8 should bow at least 1 model year after the next generation 3 series (E90) shows up in 2005 as an '06. The sedan will remain the M3, while the 2 door Coupe will be called the M4.

It is most likely that the displacement be 4.0 liters and not 4.9 as in the current M5. That would tie in with the size of the M3 GTR engine and maximum displacement for GT cars under ACO rules. I suspect the basic design of the S62 (E39 M5 engine) will be retained, but the new unit be a much higher reving engine. Venturing on a limb, I'd say 4.0 liters, 425 hp @ 8200 rpm.


///M-Spec

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by TheCanuck
Is that 72 000$ US? That's a lot of money for what is basically a Corvette, with less a sporty feeling.

Sort of like the SL500 and SC430...

Have ya seen the new CTS-V.

Bob Lutz - their owner, and CEO, and president, and top dude - doesn't like the look of the CTS. I think it's a good thing; it means more replacements, and faster. Finally - a GM brand headed somewhere!

Its true, m8 the XLR is just an ripp off infiniti G35 sedan, pratically the same chassis and wheelbase. Cadillac r just becoming desprate to get sales in the Luxury sedan sector.

Let's look at this with some actual facts - the Cadillac XLR starts at $75,385 and comes equipped with a 320-horsepower 4.6L V8, capable of 0-60 in under six seconds.

The Mercedes SL500 (an actual competitor) starts at $85,990 - that's $10,605 more - and comes with just a 302-horsepower 5.0L V8 that does 0-60 in 6.5 - so for $10k less you get more power and more speed; I guess that wouldn't have much an appeal to posers (evidently, like yourself) though...

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Unfortunately, people 30 to 45 are exactly who GM needs to buy the new Caddys.

I've been questioning this for six years and I'm still not sure of the answer. In the '80's and '90's, Cadillac was making a profit selling to old people with a huge markup - so what's wrong with that? So what if they're identified with old people? You don't see Mercedes trying to change its image - why does Cadillac need to change theirs? I'll never get it.

 

[-Fred-]

Originally posted by M5Power



Let's look at this with some actual facts - the Cadillac XLR starts at $75,385 and comes equipped with a 320-horsepower 4.6L V8, capable of 0-60 in under six seconds.

The Mercedes SL500 (an actual competitor) starts at $85,990 - that's $10,605 more - and comes with just a 302-horsepower 5.0L V8 that does 0-60 in 6.5 - so for $10k less you get more power and more speed; I guess that wouldn't have much an appeal to posers (evidently, like yourself) though...

The Corvette Convertible starts at 51 000$, has 350 hp, and kicks both the SL500 and the XLR's ass. 20 000$ in your pockets, just for a little less luxury items in return. Yeah, the interior's awful in the 'Vette... but it's still 20 000$ less. 20 000$. Imagine what you could do with all that money.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by PunkRock
The Corvette Convertible starts at 51 000$, has 350 hp, and kicks both the SL500 and the XLR's ass. 20 000$ in your pockets, just for a little less luxury items in return. Yeah, the interior's awful in the 'Vette... but it's still 20 000$ less. 20 000$. Imagine what you could do with all that money.

The point of these idiotic wastes of money is luxury and status - Cadillac and Mercedes certainly offer more than Chevrolet, even if it is Corvette. You could expand my comparo to include Lexus's SC430, but that's about $5000 cheaper than the Cadillac and gets 20 less horsepower - certainly not a proper trade in any class but this one. Plus - this really isn't about performance. Yeah - they want quick cars, but they're not willing to sacrifice either luxury or status.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
I've been questioning this for six years and I'm still not sure of the answer. In the '80's and '90's, Cadillac was making a profit selling to old people with a huge markup - so what's wrong with that? So what if they're identified with old people? You don't see Mercedes trying to change its image - why does Cadillac need to change theirs? I'll never get it.

Because as Caddy buyers age, the core market shrinks. Dead people don't buy many cars. The average Cadillac buyer is about 60 years old --the oldest of the baby boomers, who recall the brand in its full glory.

This is why GM is working so hard to penetrate the 40-50 crowd (born ~53-63) with products like the Escalade. The younger boomers are much more likely to go European than their older siblings.

If they fail to gain and retain new customers, they're in deep do-do in 2030 when the last of the boomers succumb to old age. This is because their kids --Gen Xers (born ~65-78) like me, perfer imports and have a tendency to view traditional Cadillac offerings like P Diddy views Bingo night at the V.A. lounge.

Even my father, who will be 56 later this year --a prime Cadillac buyer ---wants a Cadillac about as bad as he wants a good case of syphilis. He says he wants a new Mercedes SL to park next to my mother's E320.

..and speaking of Mercedes, they took a shot at (and succeeded, IMO) changing their image in the 90s. Don't you remember when they moved away from old, serious, severe and pretentious to youthful, dynamic, energetic and pretentious?

Oh wait, that's BMW... today.


///M-Spec

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by PunkRock
The Corvette Convertible starts at 51 000$, has 350 hp, and kicks both the SL500 and the XLR's ass. 20 000$ in your pockets, just for a little less luxury items in return. Yeah, the interior's awful in the 'Vette... but it's still 20 000$ less. 20 000$. Imagine what you could do with all that money.

Because not everyone buying an expensive toy cares if they're getting the best horsepower/dollar ratio possible. If that were true, we'd all be driving Fox body Mustangs.

No question the Vette is a better value, but do you buy steak by the pound? Or do you eat what tastes better to you based on what you can afford?


///M-Spec

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Because as Caddy buyers age, the core market shrinks. Dead people don't buy many cars.

You'd think, but Cadillac was the official car for two generations of old people, and as long as they kept making what they made, there was no reason that trend wouldn't continue. Hell, their only real competition was Buick, and that's in-house...

...and speaking of Mercedes, they took a shot at (and succeeded, IMO) changing their image in the 90s. Don't you remember when they moved away from old, serious, severe and pretentious to youthful, dynamic, energetic and pretentious?

No. In my opinion, though Mercedes made some headway changing their staid image, they didn't do nearly enough, and now they're right back where they started - new C- and CL-class are prime examples. Boring, certainly not up to the competition. I'd have a Mazda 6 long before I'd have any C-class, even if I wasn't paying.

Oh wait, that's BMW... today.

...and always...

Though I'd leave out 'pretentious.' And as a BMW owner, I do like 'youthful, dynamic, and energetic.'

 

[-Fred-]

Originally posted by M5Power
Yeah - they want quick cars, but they're not willing to sacrifice either luxury or status.

Which make them rich wankers. You'd think people would stop wasting money on useless things.

Ehh, i want to be rich too...

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by PunkRock
You'd think people would stop wasting money on useless things.

Hey man - high-end Lexus, BMW, Acura, Mercedes, etc - have been capitalising on this for years. It's how you make real money and still have relatively low output. And kudos to them, too - they don't care who's wasting what, they make profits like there's no tomorrow.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power


You'd think, but Cadillac was the official car for two generations of old people, and as long as they kept making what they made, there was no reason that trend wouldn't continue. Hell, their only real competition was Buick, and that's in-house...[/B]

Why? I doubt that when I turn 60, I'll suddenly feel the urge to trade in whatever's in my garage for a DeVille, put on some funny pants and head for the nearest golf course.

It's not as if when people reach a certain age, they suddenly forsake what they've perfered all their lives for what their parents perferred at that age. (although I'm very alarmed about my sudden interest in Dad's Sinatra records) ..but these are cars we're talking about. Old people (in case you haven't noticed) are stubborn as hell.

Mark my words, M5Power, in 30 years you and I will get snickered at by kids for driving an 'old man's' BMW. (that's when I'd have to whip out the Porsche and smoke their asses)

Originally posted by M5Power
No. In my opinion, though Mercedes made some headway changing their staid image, they didn't do nearly enough, and now they're right back where they started - new C- and CL-class are prime examples. Boring, certainly not up to the competition. I'd have a Mazda 6 long before I'd have any C-class, even if I wasn't paying.[/B]

Not sure where the 6 comes in as an alternative for a C-class, but okay.. I liked driving the 6 quite a bit too.

Originally posted by M5Power
Though I'd leave out 'pretentious.' And as a BMW owner, I do like 'youthful, dynamic, and energetic.' [/B]

In that case, from one BMW owner to another, I think you need to try out a new Cadillac I hear they're all the rage with the old people.


///M-Spec

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Why? I doubt that when I turn 60, I'll suddenly feel the urge to trade in whatever's in my garage for a DeVille, put on some funny pants and head for the nearest golf course.

Ahh - you're a car person. Widowed women feel differently - they want big, plush stuff, and if their husband was a war veteran, which is often the case, they want a US-made product. LeSabre or Deville, then.

Mark my words, M5Power, in 30 years you and I will get snickered at by kids for driving an 'old man's' BMW. (that's when I'd have to whip out the Porsche and smoke their asses)

Nah - it'll never be like that. For one thing, I'm never going to tell kids I had a third-generation 7-series, I'll be living in seclusion in the desert with one of them Baja S-10 pickups (I was born on a small, remote island and for that reason the concept of being secluded on an island bores me to tears). And for another - with the way BMW is designing their cars nowadays, no BMW will ever be referred to as an old man's BMW. Live on, Bangle! I like the anti-anti-Bangle backlash beginning now - "You can't afford one anyway, so just shut up;" "Who cares what YOU think, your criticism isn't original anyway, so just shut up" - it's what makes Bangle so special.

Not sure where the 6 comes in as an alternative for a C-class, but okay.. I liked driving the 6 quite a bit too.

Ha! C320 with a 215-hp 3.2L V6 starts at $35,200 with vinyl upholstery, power seats, traction control, antilock brakes, front and rear side airbags, keyless entry, and a Bose sound system. A sunroof is $1185, 6-CD is $400, full leather is $1440, and heated seats are $650 - auto is $1325. Total package on that one is $40,200.

Our friend the Mazda 6s with a 220-hp 3.0L V6 starts at just $21,220. Similarly, it has traction control, antilock brakes, keyless entry, and a power seat. Full leather is just $860, side curtain airbags are only $450, a sunroof is just $700, a Bose 6-CD is just $635, and heated seats are just $220 - auto is $500 on that, for a grand total of just $24,600 - completely trumping the Merc with every one of the same features. Ouch! How does Merc get away with that? Premium brands - pah!

In that case, from one BMW owner to another, I think you need to try out a new Cadillac I hear they're all the rage with the old people.

Those 80-year-olds will be lining up in droves for a CTS V...