California to ban power-hungry TVs?

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http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bigtvs14-2009oct14,0,4908205.story

California appears poised to be first to ban power-guzzling big-screen TVs

So a state without a financial leg to stand up wants to stymie consumers and businesses even more. Who elects these jerks?

I love this line:

Tightening efficiency ratings by using new technology and materials should result in "zero increase in cost to consumers," said Harinder Singh, an Energy Commission staffer on the TV regulation project.

And what makes him so confident? If it costs businesses, it will cost consumers.
 
funny-dog-pictures-stupid-magnitude.jpg
 
Won't happen. The legalization and taxation of marijuana will happen long before that stupid idea even hits the House, and will fix the state's budget within a couple of years.

The same bill was proposed at around this time last year, and it was laughed out of fruition.
 
Oh my. :rolleyes:
Not that I'm entitled to a vote in CA, but this does seem a little silly.
Maybe they should try eliminating the power-hungry air-con units from the governmental buildings in Sacramento instead?
We could use all the additional "hot air" from the politicians to drive some sort of turbine which'd generate the necessary electrickery to power our TVs!
Who says I'm not in favour of alternative power? :lol:
 
Don't you have energy based rating systems on electrical products in CA?

What you should be doing is getting more people out of their lard-arse sofa's, then you don't have to do anything about it. People watch too much TV.
 
Nobody out there cooks on an electric range, or bathes with water from an electric heater? You wanna save energy, get rid of those things first. TV power consumption is way down the list!

And was the 200-watt-per-channel 7.1 surround-sound receiver addressed in the bill? Now there's some wattage down the tubes!
 
Tumble dryers are pretty high too, our one can use up to 2.3KW.

Hmm, one for the Science folks. What's more energy efficient, gas ovens or electric fan ovens? Our fan oven is rated at about 1.4KW iirc.

I won't get started on energy wastage in production kitchens...(and food wastage).
 
Californian excessive politics at its finest. I wouldn't vote on it if it gets on the ballot. Sometimes I'd like to move to be 1 of the 400,000 Californians annually move to laid-back Nevada.
 
Californian excessive politics at its finest. I wouldn't vote on it if it gets on the ballot. Sometimes I'd like to move to be 1 of the 400,000 Californians annually move to laid-back Nevada.

I can humbly agree with this... But I don't think I could ever leave the bay. I think this is just the environmentalist trying to force everyone to live by their standards. Reminds me of my dads side of the family and there obsession with being good Christians. Hopefully this gets thrown out for sheer stupidity... But who knows, look at some of the other crap that's been past in this state.
 
So it's the state's job to tell consumers how much they should spend on electricity?

Electricity which the state collects taxes on, to generate revenues... to... hopefully... cover that zillion-dollar budget deficit?

Go on... I'm intrigued... :lol:
 
Sorry bud, I realize your point with the picture. It's funny, and Cali politicians are appalling. But it doesn't actually apply, because stupidity of this magnitude literally does flow down from the mountains and right through the cities when the rainy season comes. It's actually quite a magnificent sight. Besides the fact that the SoCal-ers demand on building their homes on cliffs that are prone to mud slides, earthquakes, the occasional forest fire, and don't forget about the bears, the politicians do all they can to make the most ridiculous crap that no sensible person would ever even consider.

I'm going to go see the movie 2012. The thought of the State falling into the ocean intrigues me.
 
So it's the state's job to tell consumers how much they should spend on electricity?

Electricity which the state collects taxes on, to generate revenues... to... hopefully... cover that zillion-dollar budget deficit?

Go on... I'm intrigued... :lol:
We tried that back in the 90's eventually Gray Davis resigned I think..local shows often reminded us about the rolling blackouts that happened daily.
 
Honestly, I don't know what you guys are rambling about.

For starters, a TV of course only sports a small portion of energy consumption of a household. But the point is that there is no alternative to a lot of devices, other than simply not using them. By buying a more energy-efficient TV however, you can improve your energy bill (and thus save money) and, statewidely, save quite an amount of energy.

Secondly, noone stops you from buying a bigass TV. They're simply trying to make you buy one that consumes less energy by using clever technologies which are available today. I don't know about energy costs in in California, but in Germany, the second question of a potential buyer (right after "how big is it?") is "how much energy does it consume?". Why? Because he knows that the TV will run for several hours every single day, and that a TV which consumes considerably less power will make an actual difference at the end of the year.

And then, there's politics. Of course, California has bigger problems than regulating the energy consumption of TV sets. But this comes from the state's energy commission, which has nothing to do with other things. All they're doing is their job: finding ways to reduce unnecessary energy consumption.
 
Honestly, I don't know what you guys are rambling about.

For starters, a TV of course only sports a small portion of energy consumption of a household. But the point is that there is no alternative to a lot of devices, other than simply not using them. By buying a more energy-efficient TV however, you can improve your energy bill (and thus save money) and, statewidely, save quite an amount of energy.

Secondly, noone stops you from buying a bigass TV. They're simply trying to make you buy one that consumes less energy by using clever technologies which are available today. I don't know about energy costs in in California, but in Germany, the second question of a potential buyer (right after "how big is it?") is "how much energy does it consume?". Why? Because he knows that the TV will run for several hours every single day, and that a TV which consumes considerably less power will make an actual difference at the end of the year.

And then, there's politics. Of course, California has bigger problems than regulating the energy consumption of TV sets. But this comes from the state's energy commission, which has nothing to do with other things. All they're doing is their job: finding ways to reduce unnecessary energy consumption.
Right. None of what you said should ever be regulated by a government. If people want more efficient TVs Panasonic will start making more efficient TVs. Simple as that. And like you said, if a guy wants a more efficient TV he'll buy one. There's no need for government regulation at all. It's just a waste of time and money.

The energy commission can go ahead and find ways to save energy, more power to them. But they should not force their findings upon the industry or consumers.
 
When energy prices go up, people will either:

a) Watch their huge, middle-finger-to-the-OZone TVs less often
b) Sell them
or
c) Buy more energy efficient ones.

There's a reason why prices are an important function and not just an arbitrary number. California is stupid.
 
Right. None of what you said should ever be regulated by a government. If people want more efficient TVs Panasonic will start making more efficient TVs. Simple as that. And like you said, if a guy wants a more efficient TV he'll buy one. There's no need for government regulation at all. It's just a waste of time and money.

The energy commission can go ahead and find ways to save energy, more power to them. But they should not force their findings upon the industry or consumers.
Problem is that the main part of worldwide industry is bound to do one thing: make profit, as much as possible. Whether they make good products or not is secondary, the important question is whether a product will sell in large numbers.

Sure, you might say, but if a product ain't good, noone will buy it, so they won't make any profit. But the system is more complex than that. Companies are after investing as little money as possible, proportional to how much they earn when someone buys their goods. Thus, it is easier and more profitable for them to manufacture a simple TV, because they know the average consumer will only care how big it is and whether it looks good beside the other TVs at the shops.

So as long as there's no third force which interferes and regulates externally at times, the industry would sell used toilet paper if anyone would buy it. The times of making a product because you're good at it and because you want to satisfy your customers are long gone. That's why I'm happy that there are institutions which rap the industry on the knuckles here and there.
 
Problem is that the main part of worldwide industry is bound to do one thing: make profit, as much as possible. Whether they make good products or not is secondary, the important question is whether a product will sell in large numbers.
Promise me you will never run a business.

Quality and profit go hand in hand. People won't necessarily buy a piece of crap, even if it is cheaper than its competition. This goes for everything from cars to cell phones to houses. You can argue that profit is first and foremost, but profit will not come unless the consumer is satisfied.

A company's goal is to make a profit by selling something that people want. If people start being efficiency-conscious and begin trending toward more efficient TVs, you can bet that companies will pick up on that trend quickly, and begin selling efficient sets to satisfy the consumer's wants. And then make a profit.

Notice I said nothing about a government. It's called a free market. The basics are simple, but it can get complicated, most of it is common sense, and I'm not the most knowledgeable on how it all works at GTP. Others might be able to enlighten you better.
 
If it probably comes from Wal-Mart, they might...Omnis basically summed up what people most likely do. I stopped watching TV and started reading the news on the internet. I think I have a old 29 inch Tv but if I could afford a 29inch flat screen to save up space, it would be nice. Especially if it is has HDMI. But in the end, everyone blames Arnold.
 
Please explain why making profit is a problem.
Promise me you will never run a business.

Quality and profit go hand in hand. People won't necessarily buy a piece of crap, even if it is cheaper than its competition. This goes for everything from cars to cell phones to houses. You can argue that profit is first and foremost, but profit will not come unless the consumer is satisfied.

A company's goal is to make a profit by selling something that people want. If people start being efficiency-conscious and begin trending toward more efficient TVs, you can bet that companies will pick up on that trend quickly, and begin selling efficient sets to satisfy the consumer's wants. And then make a profit.

Notice I said nothing about a government. It's called a free market. The basics are simple, but it can get complicated, most of it is common sense, and I'm not the most knowledgeable on how it all works at GTP. Others might be able to enlighten you better.
If I may, I will answer both your questions in one go, and with an example:

Now and then, cases appear when a group of companies making similar products have met a secret agreement to keep prices on the market high to make more profit. Since there are no cheaper alternatives as all the companies that make these products are part of the agreement, the consumer is bound to pay the artificially high price and thus increase the companies profits. Is this still free market?

I would be perfectly fine with the free market if it would work as intended: Make good products and you make profit, make bad products and you make losses. Problem is that there's only a handful of companies which goes considerable lengths to manufacture good quality products through and through. And then, there's the other side:

There is a manufacturer of loudspeakers (which name is not of importance) which has made a name in making ultra-cheap and quite good sounding loudspeaker systems. This manufacturer can only maintain this price level my having them made cheaply and with little quality control in China. Therefore, a substantial portion of said speaker systems is faulty right out of the box. To compensate, the company runs a quite generous repair department which will happily send you a completely new system to replace your faulty one right away. They are able to do so because the production costs virtually nothing.
So what they do is knowingly make an arguably bad product from the beginning and compensate with generous behavior to make up for it. The consumer welcomes their ultra-low prices with open arms and single-handedly raised them to the very top of the sales in their share of the market in no time.
Now imagine you're a manufacturer which invests time and money in making a good quality product. Of course, that also makes your product more expensive, so you just can't go the prices of your competitor. You'll be gone sooner than you can say "But our speakers are better!".

Now, even if it may appear different to some of you, I am not a communist. I am not saying that the goverment should regulate everything, let alone own everything. Yet, I personally think that there are a lot of things going very wrong in the excessively lived capitalism we have nowadays (see the global financial crisis as a result of letting a bunch of companies run freely). Therefore, I am fine with another power caring for the interests of their people, us, by governing the industry if necessary.

@ Keef: I think there are worse people than me who could run a business. Not that I would be particularly good at that, but with the job I have right now, I am trying to meet the expectations of all sides involved, which includes my own conscience. I know that I could probably be more successful if I would shove it aside and solely concentrate on making money. Yet, I couldn't sleep at night anymore. I suppose that's not how you would like a company to be run, is it?
 
If it probably comes from Wal-Mart, they might...Omnis basically summed up what people most likely do. I stopped watching TV and started reading the news on the internet. I think I have a old 29 inch Tv but if I could afford a 29inch flat screen to save up space, it would be nice. Especially if it is has HDMI. But in the end, everyone blames Arnold.
Blame Arnold? Why? What else would you expect when you put a freaking movie star in office? Blame all the retards who didn't pay attention to anything in high school, who don't care about personal liberties, who don't care about sound money or economics, and who do care about who made the dress that Beyonce wore the the VMAs. They're the same people who voted for the Governator.

If I may, I will answer both your questions in one go, and with an example:

Now and then, cases appear when a group of companies making similar products have met a secret agreement to keep prices on the market high to make more profit. Since there are no cheaper alternatives as all the companies that make these products are part of the agreement, the consumer is bound to pay the artificially high price and thus increase the companies profits. Is this still free market?

I would be perfectly fine with the free market if it would work as intended: Make good products and you make profit, make bad products and you make losses. Problem is that there's only a handful of companies which goes considerable lengths to manufacture good quality products through and through.
Price fixing is illegal in the United States. It's a conspiracy between two or more companies to keep a price artificially high, low, or whatever, and usually the goal is to force consumers into paying the higher price, guaranteeing higher profits. Kind of like a monopoly, but with more than one company.

The problem is that it never works. Consumers aren't that stupid, they catch on, they don't buy as much, they might even boycott. There are a lot of hidden costs associated with the practice, most obvious being that the companies image to consumers takes a beating. I don't know why it's actually illegal--Wiki answers doesn't even know why it's illegal. Yes, it's annoying to consumers, and it's bad for companies, but does anyone know a legit reason why it's illegal?

And then, there's the other side:

There is a manufacturer of loudspeakers (which name is not of importance) which has made a name in making ultra-cheap and quite good sounding loudspeaker systems. This manufacturer can only maintain this price level my having them made cheaply and with little quality control in China. Therefore, a substantial portion of said speaker systems is faulty right out of the box. To compensate, the company runs a quite generous repair department which will happily send you a completely new system to replace your faulty one right away. They are able to do so because the production costs virtually nothing.
So what they do is knowingly make an arguably bad product from the beginning and compensate with generous behavior to make up for it. The consumer welcomes their ultra-low prices with open arms and single-handedly raised them to the very top of the sales in their share of the market in no time.
Now imagine you're a manufacturer which invests time and money in making a good quality product. Of course, that also makes your product more expensive, so you just can't go the prices of your competitor. You'll be gone sooner than you can say "But our speakers are better!".
Sounds like competition, which is something companies have to deal with on a regular basis. That's how capitalism works. You're making it sound like it's a bad thing. Personally, I'm one of the people who would rather have a quality product than the piece that I have to send back all the time. Different people want different things, and different companies come up with different plans to make sure they find their niche and get their market share.

Now, even if it may appear different to some of you, I am not a communist. I am not saying that the goverment should regulate everything, let alone own everything. Yet, I personally think that there are a lot of things going very wrong in the excessively lived capitalism we have nowadays (see the global financial crisis as a result of letting a bunch of companies run freely). Therefore, I am fine with another power caring for the interests of their people, us, by governing the industry if necessary.
You're not a communist, you're a socialist. And your reasoning for the financial crisis is all wrong. That one is complicated--ask Omnis, he loves talking about that stuff.

@ Keef: I think there are worse people than me who could run a business. Not that I would be particularly good at that, but with the job I have right now, I am trying to meet the expectations of all sides involved, which includes my own conscience. I know that I could probably be more successful if I would shove it aside and solely concentrate on making money. Yet, I couldn't sleep at night anymore. I suppose that's not how you would like a company to be run, is it?
Business owners have to make compromises between all aspects of their company, just like every person does in every day life. And no, you wouldn't necessarily be more successful if you only concentrated on making money. You may find a niche of people who don't care about quality, but you would lose all the customers who do care about quality. Give or take, you can't have everything.
 
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Blame Arnold? Why? What else would you expect when you put a freaking movie star in office? Blame all the retards who didn't pay attention to anything in high school, who don't care about personal liberties, who don't care about sound money or economics, and who do care about who made the dress that Beyonce wore the the VMAs. They're the same people who voted for the Governator.
Gotta love California,I didn't vote in his election though I am always wondering when is his election comes out so we can give him the boot.
 
Meh, our government has just stated they're banning household incandescent light bulbs, and will only sell energy saving light bulbs (fluorescent, compact fluorescent bulbs).
 
If I may, I will answer both your questions in one go, and with an example:

Now and then, cases appear when a group of companies making similar products have met a secret agreement to keep prices on the market high to make more profit. Since there are no cheaper alternatives as all the companies that make these products are part of the agreement, the consumer is bound to pay the artificially high price and thus increase the companies profits. Is this still free market?

Not necessarily; that's a cartel. Also, the consumer is not forced to buy anything. Capitalism is a system of voluntary exchange.

I would be perfectly fine with the free market if it would work as intended: Make good products and you make profit, make bad products and you make losses. Problem is that there's only a handful of companies which goes considerable lengths to manufacture good quality products through and through. And then, there's the other side:

scared-monkey.png


There is a manufacturer of loudspeakers (which name is not of importance) which has made a name in making ultra-cheap and quite good sounding loudspeaker systems. This manufacturer can only maintain this price level my having them made cheaply and with little quality control in China. Therefore, a substantial portion of said speaker systems is faulty right out of the box. To compensate, the company runs a quite generous repair department which will happily send you a completely new system to replace your faulty one right away. They are able to do so because the production costs virtually nothing.
So what they do is knowingly make an arguably bad product from the beginning and compensate with generous behavior to make up for it. The consumer welcomes their ultra-low prices with open arms and single-handedly raised them to the very top of the sales in their share of the market in no time.
Now imagine you're a manufacturer which invests time and money in making a good quality product. Of course, that also makes your product more expensive, so you just can't go the prices of your competitor. You'll be gone sooner than you can say "But our speakers are better!".

So? If the consumer wants to put up with company 1 then that's his/her prerogative. Big deal if company #2 can't compete. But that's making the awful assumption that it would be absolutely impossible for them to compete.

Now, even if it may appear different to some of you, I am not a communist. I am not saying that the goverment should regulate everything, let alone own everything. Yet, I personally think that there are a lot of things going very wrong in the excessively lived capitalism we have nowadays (see the global financial crisis as a result of letting a bunch of companies run freely). Therefore, I am fine with another power caring for the interests of their people, us, by governing the industry if necessary.

We haven't had free market capitalism for a long time. Your example, the global financial correction, is an example of capitalism in action. It's the solution to the mess made by the fed and the government from bad monetary policy, economic policy, and regulatory practice.



Re: Banning of filament bulbs

Wow, I'm sure every artist in England is going to be super pissed off. Just because using CFLs to replace incandescent bulbs is common sense doesn't mean the government should ban filaments. I guess it never occurred to them that people might use those bulbs on purpose for certain things.
 
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It also never realized that people are in fact smart enough to buy fluorescents when they want to. They just ripped you of an option. Talk about price fixing, buddy, the government just forced you to buy a bulb that's about 4 times as expensive as an incandescent. Wow!

For the record, I hate compact fluorescents, and I never use them. They're slow to light, they give off the wrong color, and I just don't like them. So I choose not to buy them. Yes, they do save energy, but I choose not to buy them because color and mood and seeing where the 🤬 I'm going right when I flick the switch are much more important to me than saving a couple bucks every year.

England, Australia...guys, I'm sorry to say this but...you have California beat. Like, I'm genuinely embarrassed right now, that you all managed to beat out California.
 
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It also never realized that people are in fact smart enough to buy fluorescents when they want to. They just ripped you of an option.

Yeah, and I already have a few but don't want them for all situations.

For the record, I hate compact fluorescents, and I never use them. They're slow to light, they give off the wrong color, and I just don't like them. So I choose not to buy them. Yes, they do save energy, but I choose not to buy them because color and mood and seeing where the 🤬 I'm going right when I flick the switch are much more important to me than saving a couple bucks every year.

Yeah, the governments excuse is how they're much better now, and infact I am sitting under one right now and it isn't bad but takes a little while to warm up.

England, Australia...guys, I'm sorry to say this but...you have California beat. Like, I'm genuinely embarrassed right now, that you all managed to beat out California.

Califoria has nothing on us and never had, were used to doing as the government tells us, it's fun waiting for the next banning...


But it's all good, I might just start my own incandescent light bulbs smuggling racket... only the good stuff. ;)

Incandescent light bulb baron!
 
Jay
But it's all good, I might just start my own incandescent light bulbs smuggling racket... only the good stuff. ;)

Incandescent light bulb baron!
Dude, it's all about the GE Reveals...

media_reveal_bulb_low.jpg
 
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