Can anyone answer this?

  • Thread starter kafer64
  • 34 comments
  • 6,922 views
kafer64

kafer64

7
Kafer64
I just got done watching some initial D, and it got me thinking. Is drifting around those hairpins really faster then taking them normally? They all say drifting started by wanting to get around the mountains faster, but I really find it hard to believe that drifting is faster than road racing. I know that drifting around a race track isn't faster, I am only referring to those tight hairpin turns found on the tracks like 'Eiger Nordwand'.

So, my question to you all is, has anyone tried comparing track times drifting vs. normal road racing? I would myself try this but I just started drifting in the game. (so I can't trust my times :sly:)
 
Here's the thing trying to test this on gt5 is a bit hard, since the drift trial makes it easier to drift than the regular arcade or practice modes. It depends on how much speed you take comin into the drift and how hard you can slide around the corner. If you're not so good at drifting chances are you'll slow up midway through the hairpin or spin out and thus you'll end up waisting more time (but I'm guessing you mean a good drift). I think a normal drive around the hairpin is better than drifting but I would test it for you if you'd like or try that is.
 
Look at rally, Why do you think they rip the handbrake and go into a drift for the hairpins if it didn't make a difference? They would just be putting there cars in danger if it wasn;t needed. I know thats gravel but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense :)
 
jimy281090
Look at rally, Why do you think they rip the handbrake and go into a drift for the hairpins if it didn't make a difference? They would just be putting there cars in danger if it wasn;t needed. I know thats gravel but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense :)
Click to expand...

Gravel has no grip. With little available grip, drifting may indeed be faster as more speed can be carried into, through, and out of the corner.

With grip, advanced techniques like drifting can help depending on tire grip and wear, but as a rule of thumb drifting is slower with grip available.

Keep in mind, this is taking the driver out of the equation.

What Takumi did in Intial D was a mixture of techniques and styles. Like Bruce Lee, his style was "no syle". On the downhill runs, his only concern was going faster, and with the downhill angles he faced and the available grip they did/didn't offer, drifting was faster for him, but not on every corner. The tire tuck on the inside of the corner, for instance, isn't really drifting.
 
There exist no way where you can drift
Faster then drive normally,
since youre just losing grip, and it gaooen haooens on a low speed
 
This should answer your question.

Cliffs Notes: "Remember drifting is not the fastest way round a corner so you're not trying to set speed records here."

The site has great info.
 
jimy281090
Look at rally, Why do you think they rip the handbrake and go into a drift for the hairpins if it didn't make a difference? They would just be putting there cars in danger if it wasn;t needed. I know thats gravel but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense :)
Click to expand...

Actually, the only reason they do drift in rally is to prevent understeering off a cliff or into a cow ;)
 
hers my theory to this, if you hava a very sharp narow turn like in the mountains in japan, if you take you time to slow just using the brakes it may be slower thatn using the breaks a little and the ripping the handbrake and use the throttle through the corn, or drifting is to prevent understeer
 
In my experience, drifting is the fastest way into a corner....it's the corner exit where drifting fails as all the wheelspeed that should be propelling the car out of the corner asap is busy burning the tires:sly:

Makes sense why people use Initial D as their arguement for drifting being faster, but even in that series, the only time oversteer is really seen after the turn is in the case of consecutive turns, where linking is somewhat faster. In the case of single corners, it's drift in, power out.


And furthermore the drifting in Initial D is more like slight oversteer, Tak wasn't going to win any D1GP rounds w/ shallow non-angled entries such as his...
 
Last edited:
The driving in Initial-D is enertia drift which is just where the car is at the very limit of traction available from all its tyres.

On a corner, if you go in at this pace without provoking a tiny amount of over-steer your just going to under-steer and will need to scrub far more speed off.

If you let the rear step out a tiny bit more than the rear it's giving your front wheels that little less bit extra work to do but you shouldn't let the car step out anymore than the angle you intend to leave the corner with so once you have the car pointing where you want it to go you get on the power and stop sliding as quickly as you can.

Drifting on the otherhand is just getting as much angle as possible for as long as possible through the corner with an early initiation and as late as possible completion of the drift.

On fast driving, enertia drift is where you turn in later than you would normally do, let the car slide to help turn the car due to such a late entry and get the car straight as quickly as possible once you see the exit to the corner.


It can be faster but needs good skill as the fine line between going as fast a physically possible and just scrubbing off too speed and killing your exit speed is very easy to step over.


On gravel it's easier as there isn't as much grip available anyway so if you do spend a little too much time drifting around the corner than you need to it isn't going to make as much impact on your exit speed as it would on tar.
 
Last edited:
A bit off topic; but can anyone answer this? Is PSN's restoration limited to those whom had a PSN acct prior to the shutdown? At first i thought my problem was my internet(derived from a usb tether to my android), but it seems any attempt to create a PSN acct is met w/ a "site maintanence" message. I even tried to access the login as if i had an acct, and no luck......

back on topic; long story short, you want fast lap times while drifting, do exactly what is described in the above post, it's very common amongst F1 and other open wheel racers....but you're a drifter right? you don't care about no stinkin lap times....:sly:
 
Megamarcx84
A bit off topic; but can anyone answer this? Is PSN's restoration limited to those whom had a PSN acct prior to the shutdown? At first i thought my problem was my internet(derived from a usb tether to my android), but it seems any attempt to create a PSN acct is met w/ a "site maintanence" message. I even tried to access the login as if i had an acct, and no luck......
Click to expand...
Try back when the PSN is fully up. I think they're doing some more work on their servers, so it may be a while still.
 
Please do not let this go off between grip vs drifting. If you guys want to prove it, we can test the WRS with one of our own.
 
kafer64
I agree, I was asking in hope of some definitive facts, in either real life or in game.
Click to expand...

Thought I explained it in the above post... although probably not much sense as was half asleep while typing it, lol.


If you want an in game example...

Those times were you are really pushing very hard and getting very quickly laptimes and the car is starting to slide on quick corners a tiny amount through the corners as you've entered so quickly yet your not letting the rear step out too much (maybe 5 degrees at the most, on very tight corners and especially down-hill or on slipping surfaces where its harder to get the car to turn in you can get away with more obviously) that you end up scrubbing off speed.

It's never really enough to need any counter-steer, just a little less steering angle than if you went around the corner slower and with all 4 wheels or at least the rear ones within their grip limits

Thats the same principal of what is being done in Inital-D, only in the movie its being exaggerated for entertainment obviously as drifting looks better for TV


In the real world, you'll see alot of single-seaters use enertia drift from karts right upto F1. It's not very noticable but if you really look close at their lines and in slow-motion or something in the case of F1, you'll see it.
 
Handbrake turn, yes.. on occasion, but drifting probably not.

Learn the difference between a handbrake turn and a J-turn. To save you time, handbrake turn puts you near to the apex and then swings your front tires to the inside of the turn, J-turn turns you around. Drifting line is different than handbrake turn....
 
McClarenDesign
Gravel has no grip. With little available grip, drifting may indeed be faster as more speed can be carried into, through, and out of the corner.
Click to expand...

You have to remember that Tsuchiya started 'drifting' in racing competitions back in the 70's, tyre technology was far less advanced than what it is now. So back then, a slight amount of angle round a corner was the fastest way round. You only have to watch a few minutes of old touring cars to see this.

As with most entertainment on TV, Initial-D has merely taken something from real life and made it more exaggerated and exciting to make it popular.

So no, drifting is not the fastest way round a corner, and never has been. Oversteer, depending on conditions, tyres and car, can be. I've got a feeling it's got something to do with power-oversteer.
 
This is just how I've always viewed this kind of subject so take it with a grain of salt... or MSG.

I wouldn't say drifting, I'd say a power slide is effective in certain situations not because you're trying to burn as much rubber as possible, but rather throwing your car into the direction you ultimately want to go before you enter the corner. Actually, this isn't a drift or power slide, it's just ripping the handbrakes for faster stopping... What happens is that you have a higher entry speed than grip, slow down a bit, rip the e-brakes to get your car pivoting, get off the handbrakes and floor it. So basically it's reducing the amount of time spent in the corner; reducing the amount of time it takes to slow down to a sufficient cornering speed and reducing the amount of time it takes to change directions... Granted I have never driven a car in my life, I apply this with sharp corners in video games and it has shown its use.

you see this in Third Stage with the MR-2, minus the air time every one gets....
 
I know everybody always says that grip is faster but from my own experience I have slightly faster lap times on Tsukuba (about .5 second) when I'm drifting than when I'm gripping. I might just not be very fast in grip but anyway I find drifting easier around the corner, I'm a lot more constant than grip.
 
xXHannibaalXx
I know everybody always says that grip is faster but from my own experience I have slightly faster lap times on Tsukuba (about .5 second) when I'm drifting than when I'm gripping. I might just not be very fast in grip but anyway I find drifting easier around the corner, I'm a lot more constant than grip.
Click to expand...

You probobly have big camber on thw front
 
no it's not faster it's all co-ef of friction 4 tyres in adhesion is always better than 2 and a bit however transitioning the weight properly is very benefitial hence ralleh
 
Here's the thing. Most road course do not have opposing traffic, they also are not downhill throughout the entire course with this in mind, Yes it is faster to "touge drift" its not going all out its getting your car at the bottom of the mountain as fast as possible basically picture this a 30kph hairpin you brake early turn in hard slowly gas out while when drifting you can enter the corner much much faster exit speed depending on how long you hold the drift basically what I like to do is stop the drift at the apex of the corner and throttle out.

Also Handbrake on touge is only used your long downhill corners, Other then that oh wait parking as well...
 
Bobalob
no it's not faster it's all co-ef of friction 4 tyres in adhesion is always better than 2 and a bit however transitioning the weight properly is very benefitial hence ralleh
Click to expand...

Not strictly true. Best acceleration occurs at about 5% wheelspin. I refer to to my earlier comment.
 
it's refered too as between 0-10% actually but still, four tyres at 90% (which wouldnt happen, more load outside wheels etc.) will still generate a better co ef of friction than two + the significantly less rear...
 
Bobalob
it's refered too as between 0-10% actually but still, four tyres at 90% (which wouldnt happen, more load outside wheels etc.) will still generate a better co ef of friction than two + the significantly less rear...
Click to expand...

But what about 100% grip at the front and 90% at the back? As I said in my earlier post, back when oversteer was a race technique cars were underpowered and sitting on crossply tyres. So not only was it a quicker way round, but it was also probably the easiest way to drive the cars flat out.

Oh, and about 5% is pretty much the same as 0-10% ;) Haha.
 

Similar threads

MrSitar
Slow AI on endurance races?
Replies
11
Views
4K
MrSitar
MrSitar
B
Is the Valkyrie AMR Pro too fast in FM?
Replies
5
Views
4K
GBalao888
GBalao888
Marty_Debiru
  • Locked
The Drift update thread
Replies
1
Views
4K
Famine
Famine
seadog777
Force feedback off - weird!
Replies
5
Views
982
dkstz
dkstz
sturk0167
Gr.3 tuning for FIA Manu race at Willow Springs???
Replies
3
Views
3K
rabidmonkey
rabidmonkey

Latest Posts

Back