can you get really good with a controller?

[scubieroo]

to be fair forza also lets you threshold brake while turning to a great degree before anything bad happens where as on the wheel this will lead to instant and often catastrophic lock up as well as being able to maintain full throttle out of corners with the stick still at full lock where as on the wheel if you did not begin to unwind the wheel and went full throttle it results in quite the drift ( RWD ). in short it allows the most ham-fisted of controller users to get away with murder while wheel users must be millimeter perfect to achieve the same results.... Advantage controller, big time

 

[Wolfe]

I don't know anything about explicit differences in the physics model between control methods. FM4 felt like the same game with a wheel to me, but I only had a brief stint with it and most of my impression centered around the subpar FFB.

The threshold braking thing sounds like you could be using the brakes differently without realizing it (different muscle memory between your foot and finger?), while this...

to be fair forza also lets you...maintain full throttle out of corners with the stick still at full lock where as on the wheel if you did not begin to unwind the wheel and went full throttle it results in quite the drift ( RWD ).

...is just false. Forza is all about power oversteer; it's pretty much the only way you can even drift in FM4, and the rear tires let go very easily when you're using a controller. Let's also remember that "the stick at full lock" means different steering angles in different situations. I was actually chasing Rivals in FH1 an hour before my last post, and throttle inputs are important in that game with the mixed surfaces and bumpy roads. I wouldn't have set any of the times I did if I hadn't straightened out the car whenever I gave it full throttle out of a corner.

Maybe you're talking about FM5? I finally had a go at that on a demo kiosk at Walmart and was unimpressed.

At any rate, as easy as Forza can be, "the exact opposite" of that is the last thing Project CARS needs.

 

[donpost]

Going fast in Forza was all about riding that thin line of perfect steering. Turn the wheel just a TINY bit too much and you get understeer city and lose a shed load of time. Turn the wheel too little and you never used all the grip available.

On the pad all you had to do to ride this line of perfection was push the stick all the way to the left/right. Corner entry in particular was so much easier using a pad - you just push the stick in the direction you want to go and simply ride the brake/throttle to do the actual steering. If you tried that on a wheel you'd have to be constantly adjusting your steering at the same time - on the pad that was all handled for you.

I hope we don't see something like that in PC. But at the same time I don't want to see pad users disadvantaged either. I think a national initiative to get a Logitech DFGT into every home is required

 

[Wolfe]

That understeer problem just sounds like poor physics (or bad FFB) more than anything. The way Forza handles controller input is hardly any different from the way other racing games do it.

It's not hard work to point the car the way you want to go with a wheel in real life, and it shouldn't be difficult with a controller in a game. The challenge is finding the right line and velocity through corners.

 

[RacerPaul]

And by good I mean being able to compete with those who use wheels. Unfortunatley, I can't finance a wheel and I actually like a controller. Im married with kids so a full race set up is not an option

With enough practice do you guys think one could get competitive?

Yes you can. For sure 👍

 

[scubieroo]

I don't know anything about explicit differences in the physics model between control methods. FM4 felt like the same game with a wheel to me, but I only had a brief stint with it and most of my impression centered around the subpar FFB.

The threshold braking thing sounds like you could be using the brakes differently without realizing it (different muscle memory between your foot and finger?), while this...

...is just false. Forza is all about power oversteer; it's pretty much the only way you can even drift in FM4, and the rear tires let go very easily when you're using a controller. Let's also remember that "the stick at full lock" means different steering angles in different situations. I was actually chasing Rivals in FH1 an hour before my last post, and throttle inputs are important in that game with the mixed surfaces and bumpy roads. I wouldn't have set any of the times I did if I hadn't straightened out the car whenever I gave it full throttle out of a corner.

Maybe you're talking about FM5? I finally had a go at that on a demo kiosk at Walmart and was unimpressed.

At any rate, as easy as Forza can be, "the exact opposite" of that is the last thing Project CARS needs.

I'm not saying you can just jump on the throttle and it will grip. I'm saying you don't need to reduce steering input for increased throttle input.

As for braking no, unless you lock up while braking in a straight line you won't overload the front tires enough to push let alone lock up from literally using full brake and turn inputs until you are actually nearing the apex. In grippy cars you can apply full braking all the way to the apex of say turn one at catalunya gp for example.

these type of things make games much easier on the controller vs the wheel. With the controller you basically have auto steering that just needs to be told when to turn and and when to unwind the steering input, from there all you have to do is balance the car with the throttle and brakes. But even those inputs are dampened based on the steering input. Thus making it hard to overload your front tires under braking and driven tires under throttle, again with perfect or near perfect steering inputs every single corner just by holding the stick to the side.

This makes forza, and from the sounds of it many other racers with a controller much much easier to be fast and consistent than with "proper" hardware.

So to answer the op, yes u can be as fast or faster with the controller


edit: forza's wheel programming and FFB is bad at best, this lack of feedback makes wheel driving a bit unpredictable and very difficult to be consistent. From everything I have read and seen on PCARS this shouldn't be an issue for wheel users. If that turns out to be the case then I wouldn't think having forza level dampening for controller users would be a problem because wheel driving will also be easier for those coming from forza. just because you can get away with the things i have posted in this thread in forza doesn't mean that driving in such a manner is the fastest way to drive. it still takes a great amount of skill to set a top time with a controller in forza.

 

[Wolfe]

In the end, Forza is probably not the best example to look to for any of this. IMO the ideal lies somewhere between Forza and the average PC sim (most don't do enough to accomodate controllers).

I'm partial to the physics and dampening in Enthusia Professional Racing, but the steering rate in that game is a bit sluggish for most players' preferences, probably. I'm generally pretty smooth with my steering, so it's a good fit for my driving style. And anyone who's tried the Shelby Cobra or Abarth 1000 in that game could tell you how it's up to you to maintain control.

I'll be looking to that game as a reference to set up my control options in PCARS.