Car of the Week | BMW M3 (E36) '97
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jrbabbitt
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Me, loathing the C-HR and dreading having to run the Saturday lobby.
PSN: Dies.
Me:
PSN: Dies.
Me:
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- 1,782
- Singapore
- XSquareStickIt
So, you know how we collectively voted the 2011 Toyota Aqua S as not only the worst looking car we've ran in 2024, but also outright Beater of the Year?
The C-HR is a worse version of that.
Yes, part of the charm and spirit of Gran Turismo is that it includes run–off–the–mill cars that have no business on a racetrack, allowing players to upgrade them into visually ironic monsters that can compete with full–blown racecars on a track, or simply to be sampled as they are to provide context for the sporty and exotic cars the players will later earn their way into. Gran Turismo 7 has attempted to continue that by including cars like a diesel Demio and an electric i3, but those are cars present at launch, with the Demio even serving as one of the three starter cars of the game, meaning it has some (fleeting) purpose in the game. The C-HR is a slow and unenjoyable car to drive added nearly three years into the game's life cycle, with no comparable competition. What the hell does it do? What are we supposed to do with it? Fully upgrade it so that it can compete at the blistering pace of a bone–stock A80 Supra?
Just as Obelisk notes that the C-HR failed sales wise in the States due to a questionable transmission, the C-HR here in Gran Turismo 7 is dead–on–arrival thanks to the bizarre choice of being represented in the 1.8L Hybrid CVT trim. This immediately means that, beyond the initial 53kW (73PS) that the electric motor is capable of, the C-HR has the worst "turbo lag" of any car in the game, despite being NA, and that's because every time the throttle pedal is fully released in the C-HR, the engine shuts off, and will need a fair bit of time after the throttle pedal is depressed again to start back up again and hook up with the CVT before it can provide propulsion again. This not only makes gauging when to give the car throttle out of a corner extremely counter–intuitive, but also how much throttle to give a cumbersome matter as well; drivers will want to give a hard stab initially to wake the engine up from its brief stasis, only to come off the throttle pedal to modulate power delivery to control the understeer coming out of a turn. One would think then, that this gearbox ill–suited for track use would be the first thing to go once its owner starts to upgrade the car, but as with the Aqua, there's no option in the tuning shop to give the Toyota hybrid cars proper throttle response via conventional gearboxes; the cars are just stuck with that curse for life, to say nothing of their extremely limited upgrade potential as a whole. While GT7 debuts the ability to swap engines, hybrid cars to this day (nearly 3 years after launch) have never been given the option to transplant their pacemaker assisted hearts, meaning that the C-HR is stuck with its 1.8L Inline–4 for the foreseeable future as well.
And because the C-HR was programmed to be economical first and fast never, the C-HR will never give drivers the full combined power of the ICE and electric motor. According to the car's brochure, the engine's and motor's peak outputs are 72kW (98PS) and 53kW (73PS) respectively, and adding them up gives us 125kW (171HP), yet, the C-HR is listed in the game as having only 101kW (138PS). One might think then, that this should at least mean that the charge levels of its Lithium–Ion hybrid battery would last the car for most races, but around most tracks, the battery stops providing juice after around four minutes of hard driving, meaning that the C-HR only performs to its 356.40PP rating for for four minutes, after which its performance drops to a level akin to that of a Kei car.
In a "racing" scenario, this means that whoever is the lead C-HR in a One–Make race is just effed to ess, because the quickly dying battery means that the strat is to sit behind in slipstream, lifting and coasting to baby and conserve the battery, and then sailing past the lead car once it runs out of juice punching through the air, and the sheer performance difference between when the car has charge versus when it doesn't is simply impossible to compensate for unless there's a gargantuan skill gap between the drivers. While most slow and isoteric cars can at least be raced against copies of itself, Toyota hybrid road cars suck at even that.
Look, I appreciate being able to sample a normie crossover and a sporty pickup truck. But when the only ambulance we have is a Himedic and the only minivan we have is an Alphard, it starts to feel less like a game and more like an advertisement. The A80 Supra didn't gain its legendary cult status in GT because it was the only 90's sports coupé in the games; it gained its legendary cult status in GT precisely because it shone on its own merits against competition from other makes.
All that is to say, the C-HR would probably be less reviled if there were other mundane crossovers in the game to compare it against. If there was a Crossover Championship or the sort to give the car some purpose and competition. If it wasn't hobbled by bizarre decisions not only in its drivetrain, but also upgrade potential. If it didn't take up a update car slot in a game that still omits many highly–requested fan favourite cars. It's almost a shame, because past all that boneheaded BS, the C-HR actually doesn't corner terrible; certainly a much appreciated improvement over the Aqua and Prius' anesthetic laced jelly suspension fumbling around corners. I just don't know if it's the exception or the norm, which makes it impossible to truly appreciate.
Also, this livery should bolster the sale price of my C-HR to at least a quarter million Credits when being sold:
The C-HR is a worse version of that.
Yes, part of the charm and spirit of Gran Turismo is that it includes run–off–the–mill cars that have no business on a racetrack, allowing players to upgrade them into visually ironic monsters that can compete with full–blown racecars on a track, or simply to be sampled as they are to provide context for the sporty and exotic cars the players will later earn their way into. Gran Turismo 7 has attempted to continue that by including cars like a diesel Demio and an electric i3, but those are cars present at launch, with the Demio even serving as one of the three starter cars of the game, meaning it has some (fleeting) purpose in the game. The C-HR is a slow and unenjoyable car to drive added nearly three years into the game's life cycle, with no comparable competition. What the hell does it do? What are we supposed to do with it? Fully upgrade it so that it can compete at the blistering pace of a bone–stock A80 Supra?
Just as Obelisk notes that the C-HR failed sales wise in the States due to a questionable transmission, the C-HR here in Gran Turismo 7 is dead–on–arrival thanks to the bizarre choice of being represented in the 1.8L Hybrid CVT trim. This immediately means that, beyond the initial 53kW (73PS) that the electric motor is capable of, the C-HR has the worst "turbo lag" of any car in the game, despite being NA, and that's because every time the throttle pedal is fully released in the C-HR, the engine shuts off, and will need a fair bit of time after the throttle pedal is depressed again to start back up again and hook up with the CVT before it can provide propulsion again. This not only makes gauging when to give the car throttle out of a corner extremely counter–intuitive, but also how much throttle to give a cumbersome matter as well; drivers will want to give a hard stab initially to wake the engine up from its brief stasis, only to come off the throttle pedal to modulate power delivery to control the understeer coming out of a turn. One would think then, that this gearbox ill–suited for track use would be the first thing to go once its owner starts to upgrade the car, but as with the Aqua, there's no option in the tuning shop to give the Toyota hybrid cars proper throttle response via conventional gearboxes; the cars are just stuck with that curse for life, to say nothing of their extremely limited upgrade potential as a whole. While GT7 debuts the ability to swap engines, hybrid cars to this day (nearly 3 years after launch) have never been given the option to transplant their pacemaker assisted hearts, meaning that the C-HR is stuck with its 1.8L Inline–4 for the foreseeable future as well.
And because the C-HR was programmed to be economical first and fast never, the C-HR will never give drivers the full combined power of the ICE and electric motor. According to the car's brochure, the engine's and motor's peak outputs are 72kW (98PS) and 53kW (73PS) respectively, and adding them up gives us 125kW (171HP), yet, the C-HR is listed in the game as having only 101kW (138PS). One might think then, that this should at least mean that the charge levels of its Lithium–Ion hybrid battery would last the car for most races, but around most tracks, the battery stops providing juice after around four minutes of hard driving, meaning that the C-HR only performs to its 356.40PP rating for for four minutes, after which its performance drops to a level akin to that of a Kei car.
In a "racing" scenario, this means that whoever is the lead C-HR in a One–Make race is just effed to ess, because the quickly dying battery means that the strat is to sit behind in slipstream, lifting and coasting to baby and conserve the battery, and then sailing past the lead car once it runs out of juice punching through the air, and the sheer performance difference between when the car has charge versus when it doesn't is simply impossible to compensate for unless there's a gargantuan skill gap between the drivers. While most slow and isoteric cars can at least be raced against copies of itself, Toyota hybrid road cars suck at even that.
Look, I appreciate being able to sample a normie crossover and a sporty pickup truck. But when the only ambulance we have is a Himedic and the only minivan we have is an Alphard, it starts to feel less like a game and more like an advertisement. The A80 Supra didn't gain its legendary cult status in GT because it was the only 90's sports coupé in the games; it gained its legendary cult status in GT precisely because it shone on its own merits against competition from other makes.
All that is to say, the C-HR would probably be less reviled if there were other mundane crossovers in the game to compare it against. If there was a Crossover Championship or the sort to give the car some purpose and competition. If it wasn't hobbled by bizarre decisions not only in its drivetrain, but also upgrade potential. If it didn't take up a update car slot in a game that still omits many highly–requested fan favourite cars. It's almost a shame, because past all that boneheaded BS, the C-HR actually doesn't corner terrible; certainly a much appreciated improvement over the Aqua and Prius' anesthetic laced jelly suspension fumbling around corners. I just don't know if it's the exception or the norm, which makes it impossible to truly appreciate.
Also, this livery should bolster the sale price of my C-HR to at least a quarter million Credits when being sold:
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- 1,782
- Singapore
- XSquareStickIt
I can't believe three whole people brought a C-HR around the freaking Nordschleife...
Congrats to everyone for their immense patience with this hopeless lump, and great effort by jrbabbit for his first SPC participation!
It's time for our Road Atlanta Anthusiast (sorry) to pick the next Car of the Week!
Which car will he run At Atlanta next?
Why, it's a car that's been having issues since its debut in the infamous v1.49 of GT7, the BMW M3 '97!
The E30 M3 was one of the best regarded sports cars in the industry, with it even being crowned our Car of the Year 2023. Following up on such success is an unenviable task, but that was exactly what the E36 M3 had to accomplish. Sandwiched between the two most well–regarded M3 generations, the E30 and E46, can the E36 carve out a niche for itself? Or is it doomed to suffer from middle child syndrome in the history books?
Whether you have an eligible E36 or not, you're welcome to join us both in writing and racing to see for yourself!
Of course, we always welcome opinions, tunes, liveries, photos, videos, or stories about the car here on the the thread!
| Tuned | Stock |
Obelisk | | 10:12.540 |
jrbabbitt | 8:28.933 | 9:57.690 |
Vic Reign93 | 8:00.863 |
Congrats to everyone for their immense patience with this hopeless lump, and great effort by jrbabbit for his first SPC participation!
It's time for our Road Atlanta Anthusiast (sorry) to pick the next Car of the Week!
Which car will he run At Atlanta next?
Why, it's a car that's been having issues since its debut in the infamous v1.49 of GT7, the BMW M3 '97!
Dogbox BoneStock: Biewer Terrier by RMedia_Obelisk
#biewer #bonestock #dogbox
#biewer #bonestock #dogbox
The E30 M3 was one of the best regarded sports cars in the industry, with it even being crowned our Car of the Year 2023. Following up on such success is an unenviable task, but that was exactly what the E36 M3 had to accomplish. Sandwiched between the two most well–regarded M3 generations, the E30 and E46, can the E36 carve out a niche for itself? Or is it doomed to suffer from middle child syndrome in the history books?
Whether you have an eligible E36 or not, you're welcome to join us both in writing and racing to see for yourself!
Join Our Weekly Lobbies!
Our weekly lobbies are ongoing as usual, and anyone (not a dick) is welcome to join us in racing E36s under BoP conditions!
Click on the hyperlinks to convert the times to your time zone, and feel free to add the hosts as friends on PSN to make searching for the lobbies easier!
Tracks: Randomly selected by lobby participants (~5 mins practice, ~10 mins sprint)
PP Limit: 507PP
Car: No Limit
Tyres: Comfort Soft
Click on the hyperlinks to convert the times to your time zone, and feel free to add the hosts as friends on PSN to make searching for the lobbies easier!
The Americas Lobby
- Tuesday. 11th February, 10 P.M. CST
- Host: Victory_Reign93
The Asia/Oceania also kinda European Lobby
- Saturday, 15th February, 4 P.M. Singapore Time
- Host: XSquareStickIt
Tracks: Randomly selected by lobby participants (~5 mins practice, ~10 mins sprint)
PP Limit: 507PP
Car: No Limit
Tyres: Comfort Soft
~Single–Player Challenge!~
Of course, we always welcome opinions, tunes, liveries, photos, videos, or stories about the car here on the the thread!
- 51,544
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
I don't mind the E36. I just felt the car was becoming too fast too soon. However, in the USA, at the time, we didn't get the big power 3.2L. I think the 3.0L- US spec was only rated at 235hp or 245hp(?). Plus, I preferred the sedan due to the boom in four door touring cars.
Anyway, finally having this car in the franchise is a win for us all.
I guess it's a sleeper because it doesn't look like a car with 320bhp. Should pit it against both 993 CS/RS to see how it goes.
Anyway, finally having this car in the franchise is a win for us all.
I guess it's a sleeper because it doesn't look like a car with 320bhp. Should pit it against both 993 CS/RS to see how it goes.
- 1,837
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- GTP_MPower
- JetsE36
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- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Ah, that's what it was. I swear there was a Car & Driver magazine issue that mentioned we didn't get the 3.2L. That was probably when the E36 M3 initially debuted in the USA.
Okay, looked up a couple things. Goodness, thirty years ago. Goes quick. The 3.2L-US came a year later while Europe already debuted the M3 a few years earlier. Plus, the 3.2L-Euro same year we got the M3. All good.
jrbabbitt
Premium
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- Charleston, SC
- TCR_JimyBee
Believe it or not, but i am guessing I am a rare one the actually likes the CH-R....
and I'll give the Bimmer a try....
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The Toyota C-HR, the very definition of boring and unassuming. Honestly, they should have called it the CAR - the City Appliance Runabout because at least that would have been slightly witty and memey.
Also, why did PD model the pre-facelift Gen 1 with its very fugly front fascia instead of the much nicer facelift (that also looks much closer to the original concept)? It’s not the ugliest thing in the world (that goes to the Gen 1 Kia Picanto and its atrocious grille), but the C-HR is already a contender for Worst Looking Car of the Year.
Another disappointment is the choice of powertrain: the 1.8L 2ZR-FXE hybrid. It suffers from the same issues as the Aqua: the engine is tied to a CVT that is meant for city driving and not track work, an overly restrictive battery deployment that forces lift-and-coast to harvest sufficient charge to deploy the electric motor and a drastic performance loss if the charge falls too low.
And to make matters worse, the C-HR does have an alternative engine/transmission combo that would have arguably been much better on track: the non-hybrid 1.2L turbo 8NR-FTS mated to a 6 speed manual. It may only have 116 PS to the 2XR’s 138 PS, but it would have distinguished the C-HR from the Aqua and Prius, the manual would been a much better match for the surprisingly nimble C-HR’s chassis and it would have left open the possibility of an engine swap for even more power.
The C-HR is a ‘what could have been’ - an agile handling crossover let down by a lethargic and counterintuitive engine and transmission that arguably leaves it outpaced by the starter hatchback trio (let alone the AFEELA or the majority of the MFGT roster).
Also, why did PD model the pre-facelift Gen 1 with its very fugly front fascia instead of the much nicer facelift (that also looks much closer to the original concept)? It’s not the ugliest thing in the world (that goes to the Gen 1 Kia Picanto and its atrocious grille), but the C-HR is already a contender for Worst Looking Car of the Year.
Another disappointment is the choice of powertrain: the 1.8L 2ZR-FXE hybrid. It suffers from the same issues as the Aqua: the engine is tied to a CVT that is meant for city driving and not track work, an overly restrictive battery deployment that forces lift-and-coast to harvest sufficient charge to deploy the electric motor and a drastic performance loss if the charge falls too low.
And to make matters worse, the C-HR does have an alternative engine/transmission combo that would have arguably been much better on track: the non-hybrid 1.2L turbo 8NR-FTS mated to a 6 speed manual. It may only have 116 PS to the 2XR’s 138 PS, but it would have distinguished the C-HR from the Aqua and Prius, the manual would been a much better match for the surprisingly nimble C-HR’s chassis and it would have left open the possibility of an engine swap for even more power.
The C-HR is a ‘what could have been’ - an agile handling crossover let down by a lethargic and counterintuitive engine and transmission that arguably leaves it outpaced by the starter hatchback trio (let alone the AFEELA or the majority of the MFGT roster).
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